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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 3

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^^^ Right, I forgot about taunting. Still, I'm not a big fan of taunting when you are actually slower than the thing. She gets her spikes, then can just switch out knowing it can't hurt you (why would it T Bolt you when it fears an fire attack and knows it won't be killing you?)

Anyway, you are wrong about the 2nd one. When someone else uses a priority move (like fake out), then the move that hits first is based on speed. So Ambipom is faster, therefore you get flinched, and therefore you lose your sash and your strategy.

If the target also uses an increased priority move during the same round that the user uses Sucker Punch, the attack order of the users will be determined normally.

From Bulbapedia.

Someone looks like a fool now.
 
Sucker Punch goes before Fake Out so it can't Flinch therfore letting you Sucker Punch twice for the 2HKO.

Just a correction. Sucker Punch and Fake Out are the same priority level, so the faster pokemon will go first. Since Ambipom is faster, it'll hit and you'll flinch.
 
^^^ Right, I forgot about taunting. Still, I'm not a big fan of taunting when you are actually slower than the thing. She gets her spikes, then can just switch out knowing it can't hurt you (why would it T Bolt you when it fears an fire attack and knows it won't be killing you?)

Anyway, you are wrong about the 2nd one. When someone else uses a priority move (like fake out), then the move that hits first is based on speed. So Ambipom is faster, therefore you get flinched, and therefore you lose your sash and your strategy.



From Bulbapedia.

Someone looks like a fool now.

Seems so you beat Adamant at least. I wouldn't say a fool you were wrong on your part as well; though my situation has the possibility of being true assuming it ran a +Attack nature instead of speed.
 
I don't think it even beats Adamant, since Adamant Ambipom has 329 Spd, and max speed Houndoom has only 317.

Speedy bugger, that Ambipom.
 
Tucker, it looks quite interesting, but I'm not too sure about its practicality. Counter seems a nice idea to use with Houndoom's poor defense stat - you can take out a Crobat that used Brave Bird or U-turn quite easily. It seems to be able to deal with the top 2 leads (Crobat and Froslass) OK, but if Froslass Taunts you turn 1 while you try to Taunt it, it can then proceed to set up a layer of spikes before taking you down with Destiny Bond. Just something to keep in mind - if people start using this, the novelty value of Taunt will wear off and Froslass users will catch on to Taunt Houndoom (my Arcanine frequently gets Taunted now so it can't beat the D Bond with Toxic).

Also, like others have said before me, Houndoom can't really beat Ambipom with Sucker Punch:

Jolly Silk Scarf Ambipom Fake Out vs Houndoom: 84.5 - 100%
- so it gets the free Fake Out to break your sash, while your Sucker Punch will fail by you being outsped and flinched.

Sucker Punch vs 4/0 Ambipom: 49.5 - 58.1%
- You hit Ambipom for half its health with Sucker Punch as it uses a different attack against Houndoom.

Ambipom U-turn vs Houndoom: 55.0 - 64.9%
- Ambipom then proceeds to KO you with whatever attack it uses next, having taken half its health from Sucker Punch.

So you end up with a dead Houndoom and an Ambipom at half health. When facing Ambipom, the pokemon needs to be able to take the Fake Out in order to bring Ambipom down - you won't be beating it with Sucker Punch, unfortunately, unless you outspeed it. Also, a taunted Froslass is not going to stick around to Ice Beam you, so maybe consider running Pursuit if you can.
 
Actually Counter hits the incoming Pokemon if the foe uses U-turn, not the U-turn user.
(Remember Counter goes last, which means the switch occurs after the Pokemon is switched in).
This also occured as explained on Shoddy during my battle, so I do have full experience.
This is always true unless the U-turner is the last Pokemon left on the person's team, then of course it doesn't switch and IS hit with Counter.

Anyways, here is a cool set, surprisingly there isn't a Trick Room set in the Analysis. The advantage over Claydol/Solrock is Hypnosis, and in Solrock's case, access to Rain Dance to work like a UU Bronzong.

BOTH SETS ARE LEAD SETS FOR UU ONLY


Set Name: Rainy Room

Lunatone: @ Damp Rock / Focus Sash
252 Attack / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly

Hypnosis
Rain Dance
Trick Room
Explosion

Use as a Trick Room lead.

With Lunatone's many weaknesses, and two set-up moves, Lunatone relies on a quick Hypnosis to give it the free turn it needs so it can set up Rain Dance and Trick Room. The premise is to use Hypnosis first to cause a switch, and then Rain Dance to power up your Water and Electric Pokemon. After Rain Dance is set, use Trick Room. Afterwards, its up to prediction to either use Explosion or safely switch. Switch if you know the opponent is faster than you under *Trick Room conditions* to save Lunatone's Explosion for later on, or Explode if you know you are faster under *Trick Room conditions.*

It is important to max the Speed EVs with a boosting nature so you have a chance to Hypnosis first more often. To give you an idea about what max Speed allows Lunatone to outspeed here is a list of common threats: Tie speed with + Speed Butterfree, Poliwrath, Politoed, Ludicolo, Victrebel. Outspeed Jolly/Timid Frisk Bannette and Mixed Golduck, as well as Modest and Adament versions of Kabutops, Shiftry, Venasaur, Absol, Super Luck Honchkrow, Kingler, Driftblim, and max Speed Modest Milotic (by one point). I left HP alone as Speed and attack are needed most, and adding 4 HP EVs would make Lunatone's HP even, which isn't good for Stealth Rock damage reasons.

Note all the threats listed above have a super effective attack against Lunatone, so unless you plan on using Focus Sash, Lunatone needs all the Speed it can get to use both of its set-up moves.

Let it also be noted that on this type of team relying on Trick Room and/or Rain Dance, you should have at least 1 Swift Swimmer and 1 slow Pokemon incase Lunatone cannot get both effects up. I suggest using perhaps Kabutops and Clampearl as they both get powered up from the Rain, and Clampearl can take advantage of Trick Room, whereas Kabutops can take advantage of Swiftswim incase Lunatone dies before it can Trick Room. Additionally they attack from opposite ends of the spectrum, so they compliment eachother well.


Set Name: Sunny Room

Solrock: @ Heatrock / Focus Sash
40 HP, 252 Attack, 216 Def
Brave

Sunny Day
Trick Room
Explosion
Overheat/Rock Slide/Earthquake

I used X-act's Defense applet to provide Solrock with the best Defense, and maximized attack to power up its Explosion, Rock Slide, or Earthquake.

The Premise is to set up Sunny Day first, ridding yourself of a Water weakness, then proceed to use Trick Room. After Trick Room many people will predict an Explosion, however, if you outpredict them you can abuse Trick Room to go first, and hit their Ghost/Steel/Rock type with the appropriate move. *Remember, Overheat is boosted by Sunny Day.

The fourth slot is to deal with Ghost, Rock, and Steel-type Pokemon as well as common threats. Overheat under the Sun deals the most to Froslass, Steelix, Bug types as well as Grass types that threaten Solrock or resist its Explosion. Rock Slide deals with Froslass as well, but also Driftblim, and Bug types in general. Earthquake handles both Rock, and Steel-type that think they can easily come in, resisting an Explosion.

This set is different than the Analysis set because of the Item, EVs, and moveslots. With Sunny Day, Overheat does become an option for a 1 off move, as Solrock will likely Explode anyway and doesn't mind the Special Attack drop, while Earthquake can be a surprising move to hit Rock and Steel types that resist his other moves, especially dual Rock/Steel types like Aggron. Additionally Sunny Day support with Trick Room makes sweeps with Camerupt and Sunflora possible without relying on paralysis.

As in the set above, it is recommended that you use both a slow Pokemon that can abuse the weather like Camerupt, as well as a fast Pokemon that can abuse the weather like Exeggutor. This ensures that whether (pun intended) Trick Room wears off, your team can still sweep with the appropriate Pokemon.
 
Tucker, it looks quite interesting, but I'm not too sure about its practicality. Counter seems a nice idea to use with Houndoom's poor defense stat - you can take out a Crobat that used Brave Bird or U-turn quite easily. It seems to be able to deal with the top 2 leads (Crobat and Froslass) OK, but if Froslass Taunts you turn 1 while you try to Taunt it, it can then proceed to set up a layer of spikes before taking you down with Destiny Bond. Just something to keep in mind - if people start using this, the novelty value of Taunt will wear off and Froslass users will catch on to Taunt Houndoom (my Arcanine frequently gets Taunted now so it can't beat the D Bond with Toxic).
Also, like others have said before me, Houndoom can't really beat Ambipom with Sucker Punch:

Jolly Silk Scarf Ambipom Fake Out vs Houndoom: 84.5 - 100%
- so it gets the free Fake Out to break your sash, while your Sucker Punch will fail by you being outsped and flinched.

Sucker Punch vs 4/0 Ambipom: 49.5 - 58.1%
- You hit Ambipom for half its health with Sucker Punch as it uses a different attack against Houndoom.

Ambipom U-turn vs Houndoom: 55.0 - 64.9%
- Ambipom then proceeds to KO you with whatever attack it uses next, having taken half its health from Sucker Punch.

So you end up with a dead Houndoom and an Ambipom at half health. When facing Ambipom, the pokemon needs to be able to take the Fake Out in order to bring Ambipom down - you won't be beating it with Sucker Punch, unfortunately, unless you outspeed it. Also, a taunted Froslass is not going to stick around to Ice Beam you, so maybe consider running Pursuit if you can.


Not being able to get rid of Ambipom is a big let down, but it does at least beat Crobat Froslass and other various lead Pursuit seems probable.
 
Ambipom will *ALWAYS* open with Fake Out against you and rarely packs anything good to deal with Dusclops unless it's running payback, which Dusclops can take (afaik it's a 4hko?) and cripple Ambipom with a burn. Though it doesn't win with your lead, you've still got a winning move overall if you combine the Houndoom lead with the standard Dusclops. Spiritomb also works well for this job; though it doesn't resist u-turn it isn't weak to Payback, either.
 
Ambipom will *ALWAYS* open with Fake Out against you and rarely packs anything good to deal with Dusclops unless it's running payback, which Dusclops can take (afaik it's a 4hko?) and cripple Ambipom with a burn. Though it doesn't win with your lead, you've still got a winning move overall if you combine the Houndoom lead with the standard Dusclops. Spiritomb also works well for this job; though it doesn't resist u-turn it isn't weak to Payback, either.

It functions well but like Legacy Rider said it'll get done in once people catch on and begin to use Taunt first, works well with a Normal Resist/Immune in the wings though. Good for my personal use though.
 
I don't think that Houndoom is any good as a lead. As people mentioned, Froslass gets a free layer of Spikes, since the Taunt is slower, and then a free switch on the Sucker Punch to a Houndoom counter. Also, chenman333 is right, the Sucker Punch will go second to Fake Out (keep in mind this is +1 priority going off Ambipom's higher speed), therefore it is useless in that situation. However, the idea to use Sucker Punch on Houndoom, a STAB base 80 priority going off his decent attack stat, is quite original and could be an useful trick to dispatch certain counters.
 
Something I'm yet to get round to playtesting too extensively but hopefully others will test it more than I have.

Claydol @ Choice Scarf
252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly
~ Trick
~ Earthquake
~ Explosion
~ Stealth Rock

A suicide lead that I think has potential. Most Claydol try to set up SR on turn one which means that you can take advantage of Uxie/Crobat Taunting you to screw them over permanently with Choice Scarf. Also messes with Choice Banders, taking away their Choice Band and sponging the hit and blowing up with a CB explosion later. Anything with Damp/Heat Rock trying to set up weather gets Tricked, losing their item and being locked into said weather attack. Just in general, Trick, Stealth Rock and then blow up hopefully on a bulky water. Max HP / Def Bold Milotic takes 76.90% - 90.61% from Explosion so it loses to EQ then Boom. Earthquake does 51% minimum to Froslass meaning that if it Spikes on turn 1, it will only get one layer up and if it decides to Taunt or Ice Beam it will only get only layer up. Can come back into Raikou later and does 85.71% - 101.24% to 4HP/0 Def variants, likely OHKO after SR or a sub.

So someone please try this and give some feedback.
 
I have had quite a bit of OU success with a Claydol lead as well. Honestly Trick is really unnecessary, and if you want something to just Trick / SR then Bronzong is a better candidate with better typing and significantly higher attack. The speed is also nearly irrelevant since the number of Pokemon that can actually OHKO Claydol is pretty low, and the only lead that can do it is Tyranitar (who is slower than Claydol anyway). The set I have been using is:

Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/188 Def/68 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SpAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Explosion

Tricking a scarf to your opponent is nice, but Stealth Rock isn't considered the best move in the game for nothing. Rapid Spin is an incredible asset to any team, and while it is unfortunate that this set cannot hit ghosts as they switch in, if you use Tyranitar then spinning won't be a problem (read: use Tyranitar with this lead). 68 SpDef with Careful ensures that Heatran will not 2HKO unless it is modest, so you can get an Earthquake in. Leftovers is definitely the best item since I like this to stick around for mid-game at least, in case my opponent lays rocks again, but I guess you could use a Colbur Berry (anti-Dark) if you really don't like TTar. It sucks to get taunted by Aero and Azelf, but even if they Taunt you can just use Rapid Spin as they lay rocks, which will both break their sash and cause them to waste a turn. Still, having TTar as a good azelf switch-in and something else to switch into Aero (Cune, Scizor, etc) is a good idea.

I strongly suggest you listen when I say that this set is not a gimmick, it is actually a very effective lead and mid-game Pokemon (use TTar support!).

EDIT: Oh I see lol. Well it also works very well in OU!
EDIT II: Yeah it's careful sorry!
 
no he means careful it has no special attacks why would it be calm

edit: oh i see he has it as (+sdef,-atk) it should be minus special attack
 
Hey guys, here's a set I've been testing for quite some time on one of other OU teams, and it's been working pretty well:

Azumarill @ Leftovers
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 88 HP/252 Atk/168 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Tickle
- Waterfall
- Body Slam
- Focus Punch

This set is basically a "super-prediction" set, because Azumarill honestly has to predict pretty damn well with this set, or else it's going to be dead weight, which I learned on my first week or so of testing it.

Basically, you come out on something like a slower wall, and you Tickle it. From here, you can either Tickle again, or pick an attack. You have to pick your attack carefully though. Waterfall is generally the safest choice of attacks, since it will hit pretty hard, and if the opponent doesn't switch, they're going to be hit with 50% more power because of the Tickle, which will hurt like hell coming from 436 Attack. Body Slam is useful if you suspect a switch-in, because if it's an offensive switch-in, you may score a surprise paralysis on them, which will screw them over. Lastly, a dry Focus Punch is the main reason why this set relies so much on prediction. Tickle causes a lot of switching, which means that it'll be quite easy to hit a switch-in very hard.

The EV spread is made such that Azumarill outspeeds Skarmory, so that it can land a Tickle first. This means that even if Skarm tries to Whirlwind out Azumarill, it'll be very difficult for it to stay in. Max Attack lets Azumarill hit very hard, obviously. The HP EVs give 363 HP, which is the remainder of the EVs, and the odd HP number allows him to come in more times on SR, than if he had an even number.

----

This set has been working very well for me; however, I've been considering doing some more experimenting with this set. Do you guys think it would work better with any combination of:

a) Max HP at the expense of Speed?
b) Life Orb over Leftovers?
c) Return over Body Slam?

I would put Aqua Jet on this set, but unfortunately it's illegal with Tickle...

Comments?
 
Double Status Darkrai

Darkrai@Focus Sash/Wide Lens
Timid Nature
252 Speed, 252 Special Attack, 4 HP
Dark Void
Thunder Wave
Dark Pulse
Spacial Rend/Focus Blast/Nasty Plot

You got a good reason for not using Will-O-Wisp instead of Thunder Wave?

Azumarill @ Leftovers
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 88 HP/252 Atk/168 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Tickle
- Waterfall
- Body Slam
- Focus Punch

a) Max HP at the expense of Speed?
b) Life Orb over Leftovers?
c) Return over Body Slam?

I would put Aqua Jet on this set, but unfortunately it's illegal with Tickle...

I'm liking this idea a lot, and it looks perfectly fine to me as how it is right now. I was going to recommend Aqua Jet, but that being illegal kinda ruined that idea. About the questions:

a) No, I think it's very important you get a Tickle off on stuff like Skarmory and Swampert before they actually hit you with one of their STAB attacks, and with the Attack drop you won't be needing those Hp EV's. Faster physical walls like Gliscor won't risk staying in anyway.

b) Defenitely a no. This set is going to need those Leftovers, if you actually want this Azumarril to last a bit longer.

c) The extra damage Return would do is a plus, but then again the 30% chance of paralyzing something switching in is priceless;especially because you could try to pull of some kind of para-flinch strategy by using Waterfall on the poke switching in on your Body Slam.


Also, the idea of this Azumarril annoying the shit out of a Gyarados trying to set up is hilarious. While it's trying to set up on you, you just keep using Tickle so you nullify their attack boosts, and lowering their defenses so you can hit them hard with a Body Slam.
 
You got a good reason for not using Will-O-Wisp instead of Thunder Wave?
Well, most ubers are special attackers, Thunder Wave has 100% accuracy, compared to WoW's 75%; it won't give a boost to the occasional Heatran; and it's new, which is what this thread is for, new ideas.
I don't think Will-o-Wisp should be the only "Other Options" status move when Thunder Wave is also useful. Both have their merits.
 
Here's a set that I just found out (that can also be useful)

Typhlosion@choice band
EVs: 6 hp / 252 att / 252 speed
adamant nature
-earthquake
-flare blitz
-focus punch
-will-o-wisp/Rock slide

Just a random set that I discovered (and also holds surprise factor). Earthquake takes care of lantern and other fire types. Flare blitz is for stab, and it hurts with that choice band attached. Focus punch is for incoming switches such as milotic, physical walls, and OHKOing chansey in one hit. Will-o-wisp cripples physical attackers, but Rock slide OHKOs charizard taking out a decent chunk off of flyers.

just a novelty set, but it has surprise factor.
 
Here's a set that I just found out (that can also be useful)

Typhlosion@choice band
EVs: 6 hp / 252 att / 252 speed
naughty nature
-earthquake
-flare blitz
-focus punch
-will-o-wisp/HP rock

Just a random set that I discovered (and also holds surprise factor). Earthquake takes care of lantern and other fire types. Flare blitz is for stab, and it hurts with that choice band attached. Focus punch is for incoming switches such as milotic, physical walls, and OHKOing chansey in one hit. Will-o-wisp cripples physical attackers, but HP rock OHKOs charizard taking out a decent chunk off of flyers.

just a novelty set, but it has surprise factor.

If you are really concerned about things like Charizard / Moltres (obviously what HP Rock is for since I can't think of any Flying type aside from defensive Altaria that likes Flare Blitz) you mine as well use Rock Slide.

Edit: I'm assuming this is for UU right?
 
If you are really concerned about things like Charizard / Moltres (obviously what HP Rock is for since I can't think of any Flying type aside from defensive Altaria that likes Flare Blitz) you mine as well use Rock Slide.

Edit: I'm assuming this is for UU right?
Yes this is for UU. I can't think of any reasons why this would be used in OUs in the first place.

Also, thanks for the rock slide suggestion instead of HP rock. I'll fix my set right away.
 
Variant Baton Pass Scizor

Scizor@Occa Berry
Ability: Technician
252 HP/204 Spe/48 SpD
Agility/Swords Dance
Baton Pass
Light Screen
Iron Head/Bullet Punch

An extremely bulky version of Scizor whose job is to baton pass to another pokemon. Basically you scare away a pokemon like ramparados or Tyranitar or something along those lines away with them fearing a B-Punch or Brick Break. You then proceed to set up a light screen allowing you to live most special fire moves with Occa berry even stabbed assuming no specs. You can then Agility or Swords Dance depending on wh u r passing to, if you plan to pass to a SD Rhyperior then Agilitiy it will greatly benefit from Light Screen being psuedo-passed to it as well, if u r passing agilites use Iron Head, as you have speed and the flinch rate is highly valuble. If u plan to pass to an Agiligross then use Swords Dance, and Bullet Punch, Metagross also has similar benefit from Light Screen, though his SpDef is already decent.
 
Machamp@Choice Band
168 HP / 252 ATK / 90 DEF/SDEF
Adamant Nature
No Guard
~ Dynamic Punch
~ Stone Edge
~ Thunder Punch
~ Bullet Punch/Encore/Knock Off

This Machamp is pretty much a surprise, as CB Machamps usually run Close Combat and 128 speed evs to outrun skarmory, but I thought that since I loved using bulky Machamp, why not use a bulkier version? CB Dynamic Punches and never missing Stone Edges always hurt what comes in, ghost or not. Thunderpunch is just for being able to 2KO things like Vaporeon on the switch, and still does decent damage. Knock Off/Encore/Bullet Punch is mainly filler, but Payback can be used on the moveset there too, but I'm not a fan.

Just an idea.. works well with things like Weavile or Metagross.
 
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