New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 4

[yngstr]

Blissey has Calm Mind, you don't need to use Charge Beam so that set is outclassed.

I don't know, Calm Mind raises SpA and SpD. Seems like Blissey has enough Special Defense. Charge Beam opens up another attacking option for maximal type coverage too.

Edit: To be honest, this all arose because I was RNG abusing a Blissey for a cookie cutter set but I forgot to check ability 0/1 and I ended up with a Calm Serene Grace Blissey.

Is it salvageable at all?

 

[Age of Kings]

I don't know, Calm Mind raises SpA and SpD. Seems like Blissey has enough Special Defense. Charge Beam opens up another attacking option for maximal type coverage too.

There is no reason not to increase it further. Besides, what if you're one on one against a Suicune? That Charge Beam set will have little to no chance against it.

And not really. The analysis set runs Bolt-Beam. Flamethrower is nice, but not necessary and doesn't offer much better coverage. Sure, it hits steels SE but Blissey shouldn't stay in on most of them anyways unless you predict a switch to them well. Magnezone resistsBolt-Beam but it will likely explode on you--any other kind, you'll be able to set up on and beat anyways.

EDIT;; It is, use the CM set with the Flamethrower / Thunderbolt attacking combo to increase your chances of statusing.

 

[yngstr]

EDIT;; It is, use the CM set with the Flamethrower / Thunderbolt attacking combo to increase your chances of statusing.

What EVs do you recommend? I was thinking defensive but I honestly don't know which is better: HP/Def or Def/SpDef

 

[SweetMochi]

@ Age of Kings

I'm amazed I never thought of those outcomes, I suppose I never met much status inducing or taunting foes for some reason or another. I suppose that set is more of a gimmick than anything then.

 

[Age of Kings]

What EVs do you recommend? I was thinking defensive but I honestly don't know which is better: HP/Def or Def/SpDef

The analysis EVs list 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe for the CM set but you can alternately use the diverse Blissey EVs (148 HP / 252 Def / 108 SpA) since the goal to spread status is similar to that set. Both spreads are meant for Bold, but Calm should be just fine.


@SweetMochi: Maybe just use the regular Cursing set in the analysis? I was never a big fan of setting up two things at once for those reasons. Choose one or the other, but not both.

 

[Casanova]

choice scarf aerodactyl

aerodactyl @ choice scarf
adamant
252 hp / 252 atk / 4 def
-earthquake
-stone edge / rock slide
-thunder fang
-ice fang

scarf allows aerodactyl to revenge kill scarf mence,specs jolteon,scarf heatran and many others and this also has a surprise factor as most people(in my case,those i challenged,)were expecting a choice band dactyl and switched in a jolteon to outspeed to ohko.but i ohkoed with eq instead.aerodactyl outspeeds base 195s non scarfed neutral nature with scarf.aerodactyl also serves as the best revenge killer,hitting every single pokemon in the ou tier for super effective damage,bar levitate bronzongs and other levitating steel/psychics.

 

[Raikaria]

While there is some potentual, Aero is already more or less the fastest thing in OU, tieing with Jolteon (Both base 130), and losing only to Electrode and Ninjask. A Scarfed Areo would only truthfully serve as a revenge killer to a +1 Mance. Even then, when Aero comes out, the user will switch to something that can take a hit, and then kill it, due to it's low defences, such as a Bulky Water.

 

[Alchemator]

Then again if your team had a jolteon problem it could be a good lure no?

 

[haunter]

choice scarf aerodactyl

aerodactyl @ choice scarf
adamant
252 hp / 252 atk / 4 def
-earthquake
-stone edge / rock slide
-thunder fang
-ice fang

scarf allows aerodactyl to revenge kill scarf mence,specs jolteon,scarf heatran and many others and this also has a surprise factor as most people(in my case,those i challenged,)were expecting a choice band dactyl and switched in a jolteon to outspeed to ohko.but i ohkoed with eq instead.aerodactyl outspeeds base 195s non scarfed neutral nature with scarf.aerodactyl also serves as the best revenge killer,hitting every single pokemon in the ou tier for super effective damage,bar levitate bronzongs and other levitating steel/psychics.

What are 252 HP for? With those EVs you achieve just 296 Spe, meaning that max Spe adamant\naughty Mence will still outspeed when at +1. Aerodactyl is just outclassed by Latias as a scarf revenge killer, she still outspeeds all the Pokemon you mentioned but can actually switch into both Jolteon and Heatran, has respectable 80\90\130 defensive stats and, unlike Aero, is not weak to SR.

 

[Alchemator]

Lead Plusle
Plusle @ Focus Sash
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Sp.Atk/252Spe
- Copycat
- Counter
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt/Quick Attack/Baton Pass

Note: This also works with Minun

Inspired by Riverside's Delibird, I tried to come up with a 'Cute' lead of my own today. I wanted something different, and something fun. I originally had Minun here and created an alt just to test it. Some of you may have seen me (Minun Lead Test). I ran a bulkier spread on Minun that allowed it never to be 2hkoed by Azelf's Psychic 70% of the time however I found that it couldn't do much back so I transferred to Plusle for more power.

Copycat is what I love about this set, albeit a situational move. With it I can mirror the Stealth Rock of faster leads (such as Aerodactyl and Infernape lacking Fake Out) and use other useful moves. I can also render trick leads ineffective by tricking the item back onto them in the same turn - I find that amusing :D oh and I can sleep Roserades aswell if they miss.

Counter is extremely useful, beating Metagross who usually attacks first and other leads such as Swampert. Or I can save Plusle for later and kill some other physical threat as long as rocks aren't down (surprisingly common due to some greedy leads).

Thunder Wave is there for general hax, and to cripple sweepers who think they can set up on it. I also find it an aid when pulling off Copycat against slower leads but at the moment I can't think how it helps haha.

Thunderbolt is the obligatory attack on the set, which isn't actually all too weak. I don't use it much so it goes on par with...

Quick Attack. This helps me pound lead Aerodactyl and other physical, sashed leads into the ground. I copycat for the rocks, counter as it attacks and Quick Attack to finish it. However I rarely see Aerodactyl/Infernape lacking Fake Out so it isn't the main option for the fourth slot.

While I think on I suppose Baton Pass could also be used to pass boosts copied through Copycat, although I haven't tested it yet.

So what do you think? A gimmick set really but I find it fun to play :D

 

[Kittymew]

Honestly, I don't see why you can't run Minun instead; where do you need the "power" of Plusle? Random copycat attacks really aren't worth losing the extra defences.

 

[Alchemator]

Where do you need the 'bulk' of Minun? Nowhere pretty much. I think Plusle looks better anyway xD

EDIT: I did say you CAN run minun

 

[Age of Kings]

Depending on the move choice, that set falters against Taunters, Azelf in particular. I think Thunder Wave is expendable, so you can use Thunderbolt to give you at least a chance against those kinds of leads. Alternately, you can use Discharge if you feel lucky with your paralysis chances. Keep Quick Attack in the last slot.

The only reason to use Plusle over Minun is to use the more powerful Grass Knot to cover Swampert and Hippo, which isn't a half-bad idea, especially against the latter's SS ruining your Sash. You outrun Roserade, but there is sadly little you can do to it.

I'm all for fun sets, and that certainly does look fun. :) Plusle/Minun can beat Swampert, Aerodactyl, Jirachi (nearly all lead ones are physical and you can stall out Trick's PP with Copycat if it stays in; if you force it out, you've prevented its set-up which is still helpful), Metagross, and lolNinjask but falters against most other leads. You can't beat everything though, so if it works for you, keep using it.

 

[blasphemy1]

What are 252 HP for? With those EVs you achieve just 296 Spe, meaning that max Spe adamant\naughty Mence will still outspeed when at +1. Aerodactyl is just outclassed by Latias as a scarf revenge killer, she still outspeeds all the Pokemon you mentioned but can actually switch into both Jolteon and Heatran, has respectable 80\90\130 defensive stats and, unlike Aero, is not weak to SR.

This is really an odd comparison. Scarf Aerodactyl should be compared to Scarf Flygon, who has better STABs, with great neutral coverage, more useful resistances/immunities, U-Turn, and resistance to Stealth Rock. Flygon is probably the best Scarfer available in OU, but it is most definitely the best physical Scarfer in OU-period.

 

[blasphemy1]

A Minun set that works well as a lead could use Substitute + Magnet Rise to beat Roserade, Hippowdon, Metagross, and Swampert leads. You can still run Sash to beat Azelf as well. Roserade either gets Toxic Spikes up, fails to status you, or is -2 SpA and still slower(so you can continue to stall its Leaf Storms).

 

[Alchemator]

Depending on the move choice, that set falters against Taunters, Azelf in particular. I think Thunder Wave is expendable, so you can use Thunderbolt to give you at least a chance against those kinds of leads. Alternately, you can use Discharge if you feel lucky with your paralysis chances. Keep Quick Attack in the last slot.

The only reason to use Plusle over Minun is to use the more powerful Grass Knot to cover Swampert and Hippo, which isn't a half-bad idea, especially against the latter's SS ruining your Sash. You outrun Roserade, but there is sadly little you can do to it.

I'm all for fun sets, and that certainly does look fun. :) Plusle/Minun can beat Swampert, Aerodactyl, Jirachi (nearly all lead ones are physical and you can stall out Trick's PP with Copycat if it stays in; if you force it out, you've prevented its set-up which is still helpful), Metagross, and lolNinjask but falters against most other leads. You can't beat everything though, so if it works for you, keep using it.

Actually even Max Sp.atk Plusle never OHKOs the standard Mixpert with Grass Knot with a +Spe nature, only managing around 96%. In my experience Azelf hardly ever carries taunt, they usually Stealth Rock first which I Copycat then I T-wave and proceed to damage it with T-Bolt. It usually loses however.

Almost every Hippo attacks first turn, so you can suicide with it. Same for Swampert actually. You should try the set, it's fun :D

A Minun set that works well as a lead could use Substitute + Magnet Rise to beat Roserade, Hippowdon, Metagross, and Swampert leads. You can still run Sash to beat Azelf as well. Roserade either gets Toxic Spikes up, fails to status you, or is -2 SpA and still slower(so you can continue to stall its Leaf Storms).

While Minun sits there and does... nothing. It's easy to make it survive but it isn't there to just sit and look pretty.

 

[Age of Kings]

"Only" 96%? Though I do see your point in saying that because Grass Knot really wouldn't fit. Countering on Hippo's EQ does sound fun though. :P

In that case, though, I would definitely recommend Discharge over Thunder Wave. Sure, you have a more reliable paralysis move, but a STAB attacking move might benefit you more in the long run. Just in case you ARE taunted by something, you aren't left completely helpless and you still have a 30% chance of paralysis.

 

[blasphemy1]

Actually even Max Sp.atk Plusle never OHKOs the standard Mixpert with Grass Knot with a +Spe nature, only managing around 96%. In my experience Azelf hardly ever carries taunt, they usually Stealth Rock first which I Copycat then I T-wave and proceed to damage it with T-Bolt. It usually loses however.

Almost every Hippo attacks first turn, so you can suicide with it. Same for Swampert actually. You should try the set, it's fun :D



While Minun sits there and does... nothing. It's easy to make it survive but it isn't there to just sit and look pretty.

Actually, it can beat them with Thunderbolt + Grass Knot, or you can use Thunderbolt + Quick Attack for Aerodactyl and Azelf leads. Sure, it doesn't work well, but neither does lead Minun/Plusle/Delibird/etc. Any smart player will beat any of these novelty sets, I was just saying if you want to use Minun/Plusle, that is probably your best way to go(Hippowdon leads SR immediately anyways, which means you lose since sandstorm gets rid of your Sash).

 

[Alchemator]

Actually, it can beat them with Thunderbolt + Grass Knot, or you can use Thunderbolt + Quick Attack for Aerodactyl and Azelf leads. Sure, it doesn't work well, but neither does lead Minun/Plusle/Delibird/etc. Any smart player will beat any of these novelty sets, I was just saying if you want to use Minun/Plusle, that is probably your best way to go(Hippowdon leads SR immediately anyways, which means you lose since sandstorm gets rid of your Sash).

I still disagree.

I'm going to run Calcs for Discharge against the standard Azelf and see if I can 2hko with Discharge + Quick Attack. I'll edit in the results.

EDIT: I did the calcs and Plusle can't 2hko the standard Leadzelf with discharge. Hell it can't even 90hko because it doesn't learn it <.<

 

[Olliert]

I have got a nice Anti-Lead/Revenge Killer Deoxys-S for UBER:
Deoxys-S @ Choice Band
Nature: Jolly(+Spd, -SpAtk)
Evs: 6Hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
- Extremespeed
- Ice Punch
- Superpower
- Trick/Thunder Punch

This is supposed to stop the extremely common Deoxys-S lead from doing anything at all. Extremespeed 2HKOs whilst all they are doing is taunting you. On top of this, Deoxys - S can also be used as a great revenge killer later in the game, killing off things such as DD Rayquaza and Deoxys-A, if it doesn't still have a focus sash still in tact. People may argue that Deoxys-A would serve this role better but I beg to disagree. This is totally unexpected and no Deoxys-S taunts a Deoxys-A allowing your opponent to get up at leas6t one layer of spikes/SR. Also, Deoxys-A cannot outspeed stuff such as Rayquaza after a Dragon Dance and so cannot serve as a better revenge killer.

 

[Mazaki Anzu]

I think that plusle it's OK as it's now. (T-bolt, Copycat, counter, t-wave)

There are plenty other option (protect, encore, swagger, flash, grass knot, wish or even sing lol) but I don't see how it could fit in the set, perhaps the most reliable option could be Grass knot as stated before

-Protect makes prediction much more easier, not only against choice jirachis but against any lead, protect you from Infernape's fake out and makes somethings obvious. Like if the enemy metagross uses Stealth rocks while you protect the next most obvious move it's an attacking move, being counter much more reliable (but losing your chance to SR, its an example anyways)

-Encoring SRs forces switches, it may work against slower foes but Plusle needs to be attacked rather than forcing switchs

-Swagger and Flash makes the reliable unreliable. Against slower foes it could work (specially swagger) but it always depend on luck, again, against slower foes it could work with encore and copycat, reducing the luck factor to 0 at least one turn (copycat SR, then encore and confuse/reduce accuracy drop the incoming pokemon, probably a physical attacker aiming to kill plusle) however, Encore + Swagger/Flash doesnt fit with counter being a new kind of PLUSLEad set. Viable IMO

Swagger, encore, t bolt and copycat, working wonderfully against slower guys (because then you're able to copycat SR)

-Wish and sing are mostly filler because of your lack of subs (like wish jolteon) or speed (same), sing its filler because of its low accuracy but it deserved a mention anyways.

So that's it, I think now there are 2 kind of PLUSLEad (=D) with different functions against different leads, but yours its more.

Regarding the Minun vs Plusle thingy IMO Plusle's better if your not going to use those defenses anyways.

 

[Alchemator]

@ Mazaki

Plusle does actually have quite a few options (as you've stated) but again as you said it's difficult to fit them all onto a set without disregarding something else.

For example, If you had Copycat and Encore on the same set. Do you encore the rocks or get the rocks yourself? This is the problem. Anyway thanks for your input!

 

[shrang]

I have got a nice Anti-Lead/Revenge Killer Deoxys-S for UBER:
Deoxys-S @ Choice Band
Nature: Jolly(+Spd, -SpAtk)
Evs: 6Hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
- Extremespeed
- Ice Punch
- Superpower
- Trick/Thunder Punch

This is supposed to stop the extremely common Deoxys-S lead from doing anything at all. Extremespeed 2HKOs whilst all they are doing is taunting you. On top of this, Deoxys - S can also be used as a great revenge killer later in the game, killing off things such as DD Rayquaza and Deoxys-A, if it doesn't still have a focus sash still in tact. People may argue that Deoxys-A would serve this role better but I beg to disagree. This is totally unexpected and no Deoxys-S taunts a Deoxys-A allowing your opponent to get up at leas6t one layer of spikes/SR. Also, Deoxys-A cannot outspeed stuff such as Rayquaza after a Dragon Dance and so cannot serve as a better revenge killer.

Choice Scarf Deoxys-A would probably do the job better, although both suffer from Pursuit users (Deoxys-A especially)

 

[Olliert]

Choice Scarf Deoxys-A would probably do the job better, although both suffer from Pursuit users (Deoxys-A especially)

I beg to differ here. Scarf Deoxys-A will get owned by a standard lead Deoxys-S's extremespeed so will die before it gets to do anything. On top of this, no Deoxys-S taunts a Deoxys-A, they simply get up rocks or attack so Scarfed Deoxys-A does not stop Deoxys-S from doing anything. The whole point of this lead is that it stops Deoxys-S from getting up rocks and doing anything whilst taking little or no damage itself.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

CB Extremespeed doesn't 2HKO other Deoxys-S. If anything, that set does the unthinkable and turns Deoxys-S into easy setup fodder. Opposing Deoxys-S can get one layer of Spikes + SR then switch to Giratina-O for a free setup. Or something along those lines.