Actually, I've been using it in conjunction with Machamp to lure out those Gliscor and then get a free switch in to Gengar allowing it to sweep easier not having to worry about revenge killers. Machamp also gives a solid switch in to Tyranitar in the off chance Tyranitar or Scizor comes in on a Shadow Ball. I can see it easing a Latias sweep, though, as they make a really nice HO style combo, but if that were the case, Explosion would be better over Thunderbolt.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5
- Thread starter Lee
- Start date
its not for the kos,its for the speed drop(and the fact icy wind dont screw some of your ivs) that can really help your team,i think facing a -1 scarf latias at about 60% is way better then facing one at +0 at 40%
It still gets the KOs.
Bulky DDnite KOed with SR- 83.4% - 98.2%
Specially Bulky Salamence KOed with SR- 84.1% - 99.5%
Standard offensive DD Salamence KOed-126.9% - 149.8%
Offensive DDnite guaranteed a KO with SS damage- 97.8% - 115.2%
CBFlygon KOed- 124.5% - 147%
It still gets the KOs and lowers speed while not messing with IVs.
Bulky DDnite KOed with SR- 83.4% - 98.2%
Specially Bulky Salamence KOed with SR- 84.1% - 99.5%
Standard offensive DD Salamence KOed-126.9% - 149.8%
Offensive DDnite guaranteed a KO with SS damage- 97.8% - 115.2%
CBFlygon KOed- 124.5% - 147%
It still gets the KOs and lowers speed while not messing with IVs.
Well what do you think? *warning wall of text*
Pokemon Smeargle
Moveset Name: Sweep Stealer/Ender
Spore
Explode
Heart Swap
Batton Pass
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
Nature(s): Jolly
EVs: 252 speed, 252 attack
This moveset has changed games for me a lot. This smeargle is supposed to come in on a potential sweep and end it. For example: Pokemon has been passed by a ninjask 3 turns of speed boost and a swords dance. When able switch in this smeargle and use heart swap. You now have all of those stat ups. You are now free to do a free spore and then pass to one of your physical pokes. You've stolen a sweep and are now free to attempt yours. On a nonstatus up sweeper just start with spore and then explode potentially taking out 2 pokes at one time.
Potential Problems
Priority: Isn't really that much of a problem here you just have to do a different order. Just spore first, heart swap, then pass. It works out in the end anyway unless the foe is lucky enough to get a first turn wake up
Hazards: This is quite a problem for this set. That's why you should always use a taunt lead or spinner with it.
Taunt sweepers: Many tend to be frail on the physical side (Infernape, Gyarados, Weavile for example) so explode will tend to take care of them. The bulkier taunt sweepers tend to be slower so spore will take care of things.
Weather: Unless you've decided to use this in a rain dance or sunny day team this set loses a lot of its power in Sandstorm and Hail. Your best bet is to just send it in for an explosion as soon as you see they use these weather types.
The largest counter
Tyranitar: It has the annoying ability to have almost every counter to this set at it's side. It starts Sand Storm, it can send in hazards, it can use taunt, and it can set up with Dragon Dance or Rock Polish to move faster than you. You're going to need a counter to TTar if your want to use this set.
I have used this Smeargle for awhile and it has saved and won me the game quite a few times. Since most people don't expect heart swap they fall for it. I've paired my smeargle with an aero lead to take care of the steath rock starts. Other than that I can pretty much use it in any team and it does a great help.
Pokemon Smeargle
Moveset Name: Sweep Stealer/Ender
Spore
Explode
Heart Swap
Batton Pass
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
Nature(s): Jolly
EVs: 252 speed, 252 attack
This moveset has changed games for me a lot. This smeargle is supposed to come in on a potential sweep and end it. For example: Pokemon has been passed by a ninjask 3 turns of speed boost and a swords dance. When able switch in this smeargle and use heart swap. You now have all of those stat ups. You are now free to do a free spore and then pass to one of your physical pokes. You've stolen a sweep and are now free to attempt yours. On a nonstatus up sweeper just start with spore and then explode potentially taking out 2 pokes at one time.
Potential Problems
Priority: Isn't really that much of a problem here you just have to do a different order. Just spore first, heart swap, then pass. It works out in the end anyway unless the foe is lucky enough to get a first turn wake up
Hazards: This is quite a problem for this set. That's why you should always use a taunt lead or spinner with it.
Taunt sweepers: Many tend to be frail on the physical side (Infernape, Gyarados, Weavile for example) so explode will tend to take care of them. The bulkier taunt sweepers tend to be slower so spore will take care of things.
Weather: Unless you've decided to use this in a rain dance or sunny day team this set loses a lot of its power in Sandstorm and Hail. Your best bet is to just send it in for an explosion as soon as you see they use these weather types.
The largest counter
Tyranitar: It has the annoying ability to have almost every counter to this set at it's side. It starts Sand Storm, it can send in hazards, it can use taunt, and it can set up with Dragon Dance or Rock Polish to move faster than you. You're going to need a counter to TTar if your want to use this set.
I have used this Smeargle for awhile and it has saved and won me the game quite a few times. Since most people don't expect heart swap they fall for it. I've paired my smeargle with an aero lead to take care of the steath rock starts. Other than that I can pretty much use it in any team and it does a great help.
oh come on haunter, i know the set need some work but he did had a pretty good idea on that one, i mean he steal the boosts and baton pass to one of his own sweepers! and still put the enemy to sleep! i am sure the objective of the set is not to just force the enemy to switch, but use its own boosts against him! i think that if he tried to use max hp instead of max atack and put leftovers it would make the set a little more...humm..what is the word? usable i guess, the set got potential, but need a little work
Yah, leftovers and hp evs doesn't work with this set because smeargle is never going to be able to take boosted hits with those horrible defenses. The key to using the smeargle is knowing when it's time to send it in. For example, if you're facing a weather team send it out after something dies so it can avoid the damage. If there are hazards down use a spinner. If you use a taunt lead but a hazard user comes later on send the smeargle out on the hazard user to spore it and then explode.
Still open with suggestions for this set though :P
Still open with suggestions for this set though :P
I have had succes with this very annoying Vaporeon on the Toxic Stall team I'm using right now.
Vaporeon @ leftovers/ bold
188 HP, 252 Def, 70 SDef
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Wish
- Roar
--> Vaporeon is hard to take down as it is. Having both Wish and Rest/ Sleep Talk on the same set just makes her even more annoying. I use Roar on her moveset (is best coupled with a lot of entry hazzards) but if you desire at least one move to do damage Surf is a good alternative. If you're not using Toxic Spikes, Toxic is another option you could use.
This Vaporeon is meant to be used in a stall team with a lot (if not all) entry hazzards on the field ((Toxic) Spikes, Stealth Rock). An anti-spinner like Rotom-h makes a great companion to scare of Steel Types immune to poison.
Vaporeon @ leftovers/ bold
188 HP, 252 Def, 70 SDef
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Wish
- Roar
--> Vaporeon is hard to take down as it is. Having both Wish and Rest/ Sleep Talk on the same set just makes her even more annoying. I use Roar on her moveset (is best coupled with a lot of entry hazzards) but if you desire at least one move to do damage Surf is a good alternative. If you're not using Toxic Spikes, Toxic is another option you could use.
This Vaporeon is meant to be used in a stall team with a lot (if not all) entry hazzards on the field ((Toxic) Spikes, Stealth Rock). An anti-spinner like Rotom-h makes a great companion to scare of Steel Types immune to poison.
also Milotic can't wish and rest. Though it can use recover instead.
the set could work a little better with just wish, protect, roar and surf, ok maybe you cant cure status but you get a free slot to use and wish+protect is more realible then restalk, there is also the fact roar can get normal priority with sleep talk but...its a matter of personal preference most of the time
Surf Roar Rest Sleep Talk Suicune springs to mind, also.
Indeed Miltotic can use Rest/ Sleep Talk/ Recover/ Surf, ...
But with Vaporeon you have Wish, which can also be used to heal other members of the team. Besides Vaporeon also has Water Absorb, making it a very good Gyarados counter. Gyarados looses 25% of his health every time it switches in on Stealth Rock so there is no need for HP Electric, just Roar it away.
@ Lucalibur: Wish/ Protect/ Roar/ Surf is a basic Vaporeon set. And so not very creative.
I agree. And If you ask me i preffer vaporeon's more base HP (35 more) ,compared with milotic's more base defence (+19) or more base special defence.
That Milotic can activate Marvel scale while asleep in put comparison to Vaporeon's general survivability. I again would prefer vaporeon but someone may differ. And as i said i agree about wish usefulness. Though i find the wish protect (roar/ice beam/whatever) vaporeon set better than wish/rest stalk but i could be mistaken.
look,i am fan of gimmicks or original sets (for me both are different) but different is not always better, i barely see any vaporeon with roar anymore, when i do see one is the exactly same strategy you use:entry hazards and roar away (good thing i got bulky gyara with taunt) but you have to think:resttalk only difference is that you win a status recovery in trade of losing control of what move you use for the next 2 turns, i liked the set, really i did, but the effectines of the set compared to the basic roar vaporeon set is questionable.
You are correct about the fact than this Vaporeon is not able to defeat (bulky) Gyarados with Taunt. But Roar is not only used on Gyarados while HP Electric is. Roar can be devastating with (Toxic) Spikes and Stealth Rock on the field. Sleep Talk can either select Wish or Roar which are both good moves in almost any situation (Rest can be selected by Sleep Talk as well but has no effect whatsoever). It's not like Rest-Talk Machamp with Payback and Dynamic Punch, asleep, against Rotom(-a) where only Payback is an acceptable attack.
I present to you BPLead Floatzel. It is different from 'Kristy...' in that it functions as a lead, which is why Aqua Jet is chosen over Waterfall (without Aqua Jet, Floatzel is beaten by Aerodactyl and Infernape leads).
BPLead Floatzel (Floatzel) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aqua Jet
- Taun
- Bulk Up/Agility
- Baton Pass
This is a(n) (anti-) lead Floatzel designed for the OU metagame. The basic idea is to set up Bulk Up (or Agility if it fits your team, but keep in mind that Floatzel is already very fast and there are better Agilipassers out there), then pass it to something that can successfully make use of it, Taunting any Pokemon that wants to ruin your setup by pseudo-hazing or some other means.
Aqua Jet will 2HKO Aerodactyl, one of the most common leads that will outspeed and Taunt you before you have the chance to set up. There is in fact a very good chance that you can prevent it from setting up Stealth Rock, something not many leads can do. In addition, Floatzel can actually hit Infernape before it uses Fake Out, 2HKOing it with Aqua Jet and not allowing it to set up Stealth Rock. (note: will Fake Out hit if it does not go first? even if it does, it does hardly any damage, but just curious)
You will at worst speed tie with Azelf leads (bar choice scarf), so you can try to taunt them. If you lose the tie, so be it, but if you win you could have just gained a very important edge in battle. Note that Aqua Jet will not do enough damage to 2HKO it.
Floatzel can even set up on Tyranitar (bar versions that carry Thunder), even though Aqua Jet will only do puny damage (25.4% - 29.9%) and the Sandstorm will break Floatzel's Focus Sash, after a Bulk Up Tyranitar can only do puny damage to Floatzel (Crunch will only do 39.9% - 47.3% damage then), allowing Floatzel to Baton Pass to safety.
Please note that Choice Scarf Jirachi is Floatzel's biggest nemesis, threatening to either incapacitate it with a useless Choice Scarf, or hitting it for a lot of damage. Because of this, Floatzel will appreciate a teammate that gladly receives the Choice Scarf (or has one of its own). Choice Scarf Smeargle can also threaten it, as Aqua Jet will only do 50% - 58.7% damage to it. Other versions of Smeargle can be shut down with Taunt, though.
(note to mods: I have searched all moveset threads but nowhere have I found this set or anything like it)
Later I might post in detail how to handle the most common OU leads, even though I think that with this explanation it's fairly obvious.
BPLead Floatzel (Floatzel) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aqua Jet
- Taun
- Bulk Up/Agility
- Baton Pass
This is a(n) (anti-) lead Floatzel designed for the OU metagame. The basic idea is to set up Bulk Up (or Agility if it fits your team, but keep in mind that Floatzel is already very fast and there are better Agilipassers out there), then pass it to something that can successfully make use of it, Taunting any Pokemon that wants to ruin your setup by pseudo-hazing or some other means.
Aqua Jet will 2HKO Aerodactyl, one of the most common leads that will outspeed and Taunt you before you have the chance to set up. There is in fact a very good chance that you can prevent it from setting up Stealth Rock, something not many leads can do. In addition, Floatzel can actually hit Infernape before it uses Fake Out, 2HKOing it with Aqua Jet and not allowing it to set up Stealth Rock. (note: will Fake Out hit if it does not go first? even if it does, it does hardly any damage, but just curious)
You will at worst speed tie with Azelf leads (bar choice scarf), so you can try to taunt them. If you lose the tie, so be it, but if you win you could have just gained a very important edge in battle. Note that Aqua Jet will not do enough damage to 2HKO it.
Floatzel can even set up on Tyranitar (bar versions that carry Thunder), even though Aqua Jet will only do puny damage (25.4% - 29.9%) and the Sandstorm will break Floatzel's Focus Sash, after a Bulk Up Tyranitar can only do puny damage to Floatzel (Crunch will only do 39.9% - 47.3% damage then), allowing Floatzel to Baton Pass to safety.
Please note that Choice Scarf Jirachi is Floatzel's biggest nemesis, threatening to either incapacitate it with a useless Choice Scarf, or hitting it for a lot of damage. Because of this, Floatzel will appreciate a teammate that gladly receives the Choice Scarf (or has one of its own). Choice Scarf Smeargle can also threaten it, as Aqua Jet will only do 50% - 58.7% damage to it. Other versions of Smeargle can be shut down with Taunt, though.
(note to mods: I have searched all moveset threads but nowhere have I found this set or anything like it)
Later I might post in detail how to handle the most common OU leads, even though I think that with this explanation it's fairly obvious.
Latias @ Flame Orb
EVs: 128HP/128Spa/252 Spe
Timid nature (+Spe -Att)
- Dragon pulse
- Calm mind
- Trick/Psycho shift
- Recover
Calm mind up, burn stuff, recover health, and sweep. Flame orb also has the added effect of making you immune to parlysis and poison. The Eves come from the defensive calm mind set. Im not sure whether to use trick or psycho shift. Psycho Shift makes it more of a wallbreaker while trick lets you keep the surprise factor and burn scizor/ttar before the orb activates. If you use trick you could pair this with a magnezone to guarentee skarmorys removal. Only cm against bliss if it lacks seismic toss.
Why use Floatzel for this? Scizor has higher attack, is much bulkier, and has priority. Also priority pretty much kills this set and many leads either are faster or have priority moves.
The only reason to use this set is for a faster Taunt, that Scizor doesn't have. There are more effective Baton Passers in OU though, and many of them have instant Recovery (Scizor, Zapdos, Gliscor, Togekiss with Roost, Celebi with Recovery).
Floatzel should probably focus on UU, where it can be a threat with Rain Dance, Baton Passing, and Speed. In that case, he doesn't have to run Focus Sash, and can use Leftovers with a semi-bulky set. One shot Baton Passes are usually not so hot. If only people would figure that out about poor Ninjask and give him some support. :/
Latias @ Flame Orb
EVs: 128HP/128Spa/252 Spe
Timid nature (+Spe -Att)
- Dragon pulse
- Calm mind
- Trick/Psycho shift
- Recover
Calm mind up, burn stuff, recover health, and sweep. Flame orb also has the added effect of making you immune to parlysis and poison. The Eves come from the defensive calm mind set. Im not sure whether to use trick or psycho shift. Psycho Shift makes it more of a wallbreaker while trick lets you keep the surprise factor and burn scizor/ttar before the orb activates. If you use trick you could pair this with a magnezone to guarentee skarmorys removal. Only cm against bliss if it lacks seismic toss.
Understandably, Burning Tyranitar/Scizor/Salamence switch in's are nice, but I really think you're trying too hard. Reflect seems like more than a worthy option over Psycho Shift/Trick in this case, and you gain Leftover Recovery with it as well.
Latias @ Flame Orb
EVs: 128HP/128Spa/252 Spe
Timid nature (+Spe -Att)
- Dragon pulse
- Calm mind
- Trick/Psycho shift
- Recover
Calm mind up, burn stuff, recover health, and sweep. Flame orb also has the added effect of making you immune to parlysis and poison. The Eves come from the defensive calm mind set. Im not sure whether to use trick or psycho shift. Psycho Shift makes it more of a wallbreaker while trick lets you keep the surprise factor and burn scizor/ttar before the orb activates. If you use trick you could pair this with a magnezone to guarentee skarmorys removal. Only cm against bliss if it lacks seismic toss.
I've tried this set some time ago and I think that you're better using both trick and psycho shift. You lose the ability to set up but if used correctly you can potentially cripple 2 or more Pokemon: psycho shift a burn status to an incoming TTar or Scizor and then trick your flame orb to whatever comes it to wall you (Blissey or bulky waters). It's like a faster (but with weaker defences) Cresselia with a reliable recovery move.
Firstly, Scizor does not have Taunt, which is a major element on this set. Secondly, Bulk Up does work a LITTLE different from Swords Dance (but true, if you are looking for an Agilitypasser or Swords Dance passer then you might be better off with Scizor).
Thirdly, how does 'priority pretty much kills this set'? A common user of priority in leads is Infernape; this set runs all over it. Metagross' Bullet Punch will do hardly any damage (guess what: 18.9% - 22.4%, which is not even enough to KO Floatzel after it has used Earthquake on Floatzel the first turn, which does 63.1% - 74.4%!(and I haven't even factored in bulk up) Floatzel is surprisingly bulky!). Floatzel WILL lose against Dragonite's extremespeed though (59.9% - 70.8%).
Commonly used leads that are faster than Floatzel:
ScarfJirachi: Yes, it's true, it runs all over Floatzel. Switch to something with a scarf and that can take its attack, or you're doomed.
Aerodactyl: Raped by Aqua Jet
ScarfSmeargle: Same as Jirachi.
Azelf (only with Scarf, or if it wins the speed tie, which is a 50% chance): It is still best to Taunt it, since not ALL azelfs carry Taunt, and even if it does, you might just outspeed them. If not, well yeah, you lose. You will always lose against the scarf version.
Ninjask: lol. taunt, bulk up, baton pass
Crobat: Crobat leads are uncommon these days (#15), but yes, if you do run into one, run, run as fast as you can!
Yanmega: although you outspeed it initially, it will outspeed you the next turn due to Speed Boost (unless doesn't run that ability, in which case you easily set up on it). If it opts to attack on the first turn, then yes you do have a problem.
These are the only commonly used leads I can think of that Floatzel will lose against. Aside from ScarfJirachi, none of them are even in the top ten! I really do appreciate criticism, but I like it to be well-funded before you dismiss this set as outclassed and beaten by many leads.
Aside from Gliscor, none of them have Taunt, and ALL of them will be shut down by Taunt from a faster pokemon. I am not saying these leads are worse, but they are different. Floatzel is also the only pokemon that can baton pass Bulk Up boosts, aside from Smeargle and Blaziken I think.
So.... Basically the only difference is Aqua jet instead of Waterfall ?
Still it is Creative to even use Floatzel in OU and i must admit that your EVs are different than the ones given in here.
Anyway , how is your Floatzel better than the above ?