New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

[EvilMario]

Aside from Gliscor, none of them have Taunt, and ALL of them will be shut down by Taunt from a faster pokemon. I am not saying these leads are worse, but they are different. Floatzel is also the only pokemon that can baton pass Bulk Up boosts, aside from Smeargle and Blaziken I think.

Floatzel will be shut down by anything attacking it, is the flawed logic here. You're assuming Floatzel is a one-and-done Pokemon as well with Focus Sash, and thus probably a lead. That's a waste of team space, unless you're considering using it on a Baton Pass chain (which has its own issues).

And since you mentioned leads.. These are the 15 Most Common Leads Last Month in OU:

| 1 | Azelf - Speed tie, loses to Psychic/Thunderbolt/Grass Knot.
| 2 | Metagross - Dies to Earthquake+Bullet Punch
| 3 | Swampert - Dies to Earthquake, but can't stop the pass.
| 4 | Jirachi - Loses to almost every varient.
| 5 | Aerodactyl - Aqua Jet will do 42.4% - 50.3% (assume 4HP/0Def), so if Aerodactyl attacks first, you lose nine times out of ten. If it Taunts, it will still get SR up, and likely a large hit on Floatzel.
| 6 | Infernape - Fake Out+Close Combat with Focus Sash wins. Can't win against Fake Out-less versions either, because against 64 HP/0 Def Infernape, Aqua Jet does 41% - 49.1%. Oops.
| 7 | Roserade - Dies to STAB Grass if it Taunts, if not, Roserade has Spikes up.
| 8 | Heatran - Aqua Jet will do 26.5% - 32.1% to a Heatran with 4HP/0Def investment. Floatzel loses.
| 9 | Tyranitar - Aqua Jet does 20% - 23.9% against LeadTar. Annihilated by Crunch, Stone Edge, Counter. Loses Focus Sash to Sandstream.
| 10 | Gliscor - Aqua Jet, 18.6% - 22.6%.
| 11 | Smeargle - Taunt will shut down most Smeargle, but if it's carrying a Scarf you're in trouble. Aqua Jet does 39.7% - 46.8% to 252 HP/0Def, so you can't 2HKO.
| 12 | Ninjask - Aqua Jet does 27.4% - 32.6% to 176 HP/0 Def. Taunt will shut him down, but you can't prevent a single speed pass.
| 13 | Hippowdon - Super Effective! 14.8% - 17.6% Aqua Jet. Bulk Up first, then pass straight away. Floatzel does well here.
| 14 | Dragonite - Draco Meteor/Outrage/Dragon Claw/Earthquake+Extreme Speed will take care of Floatzel.
| 15 | Bronzong - Floatzel defeats Bronzong well. Taunt shuts him down, while standard Earthquake/Gyro Ball won't do over 30% maximum.

So, basically, Floatzel can manage to Baton Pass once with Focus Sash. He doesn't have time to Taunt 90% of the time, because if he does, and they attack, you don't pass anything. There are many Pokemon that achieve this. Aqua Jet is not powerful enough to warrant its use on a base 115 speed Pokemon, where Waterfall would actually threaten something like Heatran (sometimes).

Like said, Floatzel is a poor choice in OU, given the current circumstances, and there are much better leads for 'chains'. And of course.. this is not Creative at all. It's already be discussed at length, and is even in the analysis (with a better EV spread)! See Kristy:

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/floatzel

 

[gaudetjaja]

@ Kristy set : This Floatzel is different from Kristy because it's tailored to the OU metagame, meaning that Aqua Jet is needed, and it should be passing to a powerful sweeper, and will not have the opportunity to sweep (if you want a setup sweeper there's a plethora of OU pokes that can do it). In ÖU, Floatzel will only ever shine as a lead. It's in fact a pretty damn good one since it can beat most leads (with the big exception of Jirachi, to whom it will always lose, and various other leads that aren't used very commonly).

Floatzel will be shut down by anything attacking it, is the flawed logic here. You're assuming Floatzel is a one-and-done Pokemon as well with Focus Sash, and thus probably a lead. That's a waste of team space, unless you're considering using it on a Baton Pass chain (which has its own issues).

Floatzel can be used on a Baton Pass chain or on a shorter BP+sweeper combination. I personally would never use it on a complete baton pass team, but just to open up a quick wall-breaking sweep for one of my pokemon. The best choice would be to choose one that will not die after a single hit (think bulk up is the epitome of Bulky Offense) but that's also reasonably swift to take out Special-based revenge killers, or perhaps has a good SpDef stat of its own.
Floatzel is clearly a suicide lead: its sole purpose is to open up a sweep for another pokemon, to take out leads such as Aerodactyl and Infernape, and to shut down entry hazard or status leads such as Swampert, Bronzong, Roserade, non-scarf Smeargle... Preferably it will do at least two of these purposes.

Henceforth comments in bold.

And since you mentioned leads.. These are the 15 Most Common Leads Last Month in OU:

| 1 | Azelf - Speed tie, loses to Psychic/Thunderbolt/Grass Knot.
Yes Azelf is a tricky one. In theory you COULD set up and bp on some sets and circumstances, but the less risky option is to flee I suppose.
| 2 | Metagross - Dies to Earthquake+Bullet Punch
It doesn't. I showed a calc for this. Even without Bulk Up, it will never be KOd with this move combination, and given that you will usually bulk up the first turn, you can laugh in Metagross' face.
| 3 | Swampert - Dies to Earthquake, but can't stop the pass.
You can set up on it. A bit prediction is needed in case it carries roar: will you taunt it, or will you set up on it? I think it's always better to bulk up the first turn, since your opponent does not know this set. As they will often Stealth Rock, you can then Taunt and Pass.
| 4 | Jirachi - Loses to almost every varient.
Yes.
| 5 | Aerodactyl - Aqua Jet will do 42.4% - 50.3% (assume 4HP/0Def), so if Aerodactyl attacks first, you lose nine times out of ten. If it Taunts, it will still get SR up, and likely a large hit on Floatzel.
My calc is 53.6% - 63.6%: Keep in mind I use Jolly nature and 252 Attack evs, and I give the defending Aerodactyl 4 hp EVs. I am not sure how you come up with your calcs, there is some discrepancy here.
| 6 | Infernape - Fake Out+Close Combat with Focus Sash wins. Can't win against Fake Out-less versions either, because against 64 HP/0 Def Infernape, Aqua Jet does 41% - 49.1%. Oops.
I come up with 51.9% - 61.4%, however I give Infernape 0HP evs as per the standard set posted on smogon. You may indeed get a nasty surprise if it happens to run more hp evs.
Keep in mind that Floatzel will move Aqua Jet before Fake Out hits. This means that Fake Out will not flinch it.
| 7 | Roserade - Dies to STAB Grass if it Taunts, if not, Roserade has Spikes up.
Prediction is required: Will it sleep powder/set up or will it attack you? In my experience it's usually better to Taunt first, you may have just lost a pokemon if you mispredict but oh well. You cannot expect to be successfull with floatzel if you do not predict correctly.
If you for some reason fear an attack, simply Bulk Up and BP to safety. It's a win or lose situation.
| 8 | Heatran - Aqua Jet will do 26.5% - 32.1% to a Heatran with 4HP/0Def investment. Floatzel loses.
Floatzel can set up on Heatran, although heatran will get SR up.
| 9 | Tyranitar - Aqua Jet does 20% - 23.9% against LeadTar. Annihilated by Crunch, Stone Edge, Counter. Loses Focus Sash to Sandstream.
If you move Bulk Up first, then it cannot ohko you with Crunch or Stone Edge (guess what, even without Bulk up, stone edge does 74% - 87.5% and crunch does similar damage). Only thunder versions could hurt you.
| 10 | Gliscor - Aqua Jet, 18.6% - 22.6%.
You can set up on it. Beware of Taunt; it might be better to taunt Gliscor first to stop it taunting you.
| 11 | Smeargle - Taunt will shut down most Smeargle, but if it's carrying a Scarf you're in trouble. Aqua Jet does 39.7% - 46.8% to 252 HP/0Def, so you can't 2HKO.
Scarf is a problem yes
| 12 | Ninjask - Aqua Jet does 27.4% - 32.6% to 176 HP/0 Def. Taunt will shut him down, but you can't prevent a single speed pass.
Oh that's true. At least it will shut down any BP chains (many people try to pull off a BP chain with ninjask, whereas it never works).
| 13 | Hippowdon - Super Effective! 14.8% - 17.6% Aqua Jet. Bulk Up first, then pass straight away. Floatzel does well here.
| 14 | Dragonite - Draco Meteor/Outrage/Dragon Claw/Earthquake+Extreme Speed will take care of Floatzel.
| 15 | Bronzong - Floatzel defeats Bronzong well. Taunt shuts him down, while standard Earthquake/Gyro Ball won't do over 30% maximum.

So, basically, Floatzel can manage to Baton Pass once with Focus Sash. He doesn't have time to Taunt 90% of the time, because if he does, and they attack, you don't pass anything. There are many Pokemon that achieve this. Aqua Jet is not powerful enough to warrant its use on a base 115 speed Pokemon, where Waterfall would actually threaten something like Heatran (sometimes).

Aqua jet is only there for Infernape and Aerodactyl. For all I care you could run Ice Punch (for Dragonite and Roserade) or some other move like Agility or Rain Dance here, but you will lose against these two very common leads 100% of the time.
Even with Waterfall, Floatzel is not going to sweep anytime soon. It's not MADE to sweep, it's made to support.

 

[EvilMario]

Aqua jet is only there for Infernape and Aerodactyl. For all I care you could run Ice Punch (for Dragonite and Roserade) or some other move like Agility or Rain Dance here, but you will lose against these two very common leads 100% of the time.
Even with Waterfall, Floatzel is not going to sweep anytime soon. It's not MADE to sweep, it's made to support.

The damage calculations come from Smogon's own damage calculator. It looks like yours come from Metalkid (or another?) that tends to output high numbers for damage.

Neither LeadNape, or Aerodactyl is 2HKO, making it redundant. In that case, you'd have to run Waterfall+Aqua Jet.
I would hardly say Floatzel is made for OU support, the way its stats are distributed. What have you been using as your Bulk Up receiver? Can you post at least a handful of logs demonstrating its effectiveness?

 

[Boondocker]

I've tried this set some time ago and I think that you're better using both trick and psycho shift. You lose the ability to set up but if used correctly you can potentially cripple 2 or more Pokemon: psycho shift a burn status to an incoming TTar or Scizor and then trick your flame orb to whatever comes it to wall you (Blissey or bulky waters). It's like a faster (but with weaker defences) Cresselia with a reliable recovery move.

You dont really need to cripple bulky waters or blissey since they cant stop your sweep (bar ice punch swampert ans seismic toss blissey). The idea is to trick your orb to whatever counters you, then come back later to trick your choice band or whatever away. Then once scizor/ttar/scarfrachi/blissey are crippled not much else can stop you from sweeping. I came to the conclusion that trick is better then psychoshift

 

[jc104]

The damage calculations come from Smogon's own damage calculator. It looks like yours come from Metalkid (or another?) that tends to output high numbers for damage.

Neither LeadNape, or Aerodactyl is 2HKO, making it redundant. In that case, you'd have to run Waterfall+Aqua Jet.

I just tried these on the Smogon Calculator and got similar results to Guadetjaja - both 2HKOs

 

[Emperor]

The other smeargle I made *more walls of text*

Pokemon Name: Smeargle
Moveset Name: Lvl1 Trickroom lead (though anti lead if you really wanted to)

Trick Room
Dragon Rage
Endeavor
Destiny Bond
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo

Lvl1
Nature(s): Anything that lowers speed
EVs: You should have strong as paper lvl 1 stats


This Smeargle is based on being a very successful Trick Room lead or just a pretty annoying anti-lead with this. You have plenty of options It really just depends how you choose your moves. The moveset is honestly pretty self explanitory. Start with Trick Room whenever possible. If opponent uses an attack use destiny bond K.O them on their 2nd attack, if opponent uses a support move use endeavor and dragon rage to K.O it, then use destiny bond to K.O their next pokemon. That's really all there is to it.


Problems

Flinch: This set has nothing on flinch so things with fake out or leadrachi fly right through this set.

Priority: Also flys right through this set though you will be able to set up the TR.

Taunt leads: Not really much of a problem at all. Just start with Endeavor then use dragon rage.

Weather leads: Just set up the trick room, if they set up go for the bond.

Sleep leads: They still come up from time to time. If they hit you lose if they miss you can cause some pain. However the odds are in their favor.


This set is a great at causing problems but it has quite a few flaws in the priority and flinching department. However, leads who do not go into these categorys are usually crushed with the correct prediction. And the potential taking out 2 pokes at the same time is a pretty good trade.

 

[bearsfan092]

The other smeargle I made *more walls of text*

Pokemon Name: Smeargle
Moveset Name: Lvl1 Trickroom lead (though anti lead if you really wanted to)

Trick Room
Dragon Rage
Endeavor
Destiny Bond
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo

Lvl1
Nature(s): Anything that lowers speed
EVs: You should have strong as paper lvl 1 stats


This Smeargle is based on being a very successful Trick Room lead or just a pretty annoying anti-lead with this. You have plenty of options It really just depends how you choose your moves. The moveset is honestly pretty self explanitory. Start with Trick Room whenever possible. If opponent uses an attack use destiny bond K.O them on their 2nd attack, if opponent uses a support move use endeavor and dragon rage to K.O it, then use destiny bond to K.O their next pokemon. That's really all there is to it.


Problems

Flinch: This set has nothing on flinch so things with fake out or leadrachi fly right through this set.

Priority: Also flys right through this set though you will be able to set up the TR.

Taunt leads: Not really much of a problem at all. Just start with Endeavor then use dragon rage.

Weather leads: Just set up the trick room, if they set up go for the bond.


This set is a great at causing problems but it has quite a few flaws in the priority and flinching department. However, leads who do not go into these categorys are usually crushed with the correct prediction. And the potential taking out 2 pokes at the same time is a pretty good trade.

You also neglect to mention sleep leads beat you. Roserade puts you to sleep and you're done.

Top 10 leads
Azelf- taunt beats you
Metagross- Bullet punch beats you
Swampert- One of the few leads you can actually beat
Jirachi- flinch beats you 60 percent of the time
Aerodactyl- taunt beats you
Infernape- fake out ruins you
Roserade- I already talked about this
Heatran- Also another lead you beat, barring the rare taunt/sub, which isn't USUALLY seen on LeadTran in my experience
Tyranitar- Weather wins
Gliscor- Taunt

And who wants to lose the lead 8/10 times (actually more, considering that the list is sorted according to usage)
This is not a very good idea. Did you even test it?

 

[Emperor]

You also neglect to mention sleep leads beat you. Roserade puts you to sleep and you're done.

Top 10 leads
Azelf- taunt beats you
Metagross- Bullet punch beats you
Swampert- One of the few leads you can actually beat
Jirachi- flinch beats you 60 percent of the time
Aerodactyl- taunt beats you
Infernape- fake out ruins you
Roserade- I already talked about this
Heatran- Also another lead you beat, barring the rare taunt/sub, which isn't USUALLY seen on LeadTran in my experience
Tyranitar- Weather wins
Gliscor- Taunt

And who wants to lose the lead 8/10 times (actually more, considering that the list is sorted according to usage)
This is not a very good idea. Did you even test it?

yes I tested it and works fine, and I forgot sleep leads *adds*



Top 10 leads
Azelf- taunt beats you: No it doesn't Endeavor then dragon rage. Lvl 1 smeargle you know...
Metagross- Bullet punch beats you: Yes it does though I do get the TR up.
Swampert- One of the few leads you can actually beat: agree
Jirachi- flinch beats you 60 percent of the time: agree
Aerodactyl- taunt beats you: Same as Azlef
Infernape- fake out ruins you: agree
Roserade- I already talked about this: added agree
Heatran- Also another lead you beat, barring the rare taunt/sub, which isn't USUALLY seen on LeadTran in my experience: agree
Tyranitar- Weather wins: most of the time yes
Gliscor- Taunt: same as Azlef

 

[acid_paradox]

Specially Defensive Lawn Mower (Rotom-C) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/88 SpA/168 SpD
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball/HP Fighting
- Leaf Storm/Shadow Ball
- Reflect/Will-O-Wisp

While Rotom plays a good spin-blocker/minor physical wall at the same time, most people overlook its Special Defense. This set attempts to catch opposing rapid spinners off guard with its special defense investments and type coverage while still having the ability to be a decent special wall.

The invested EV's are exactly the Rotom-H's standard set except with the Def EV's moved into SpD, and Spe moved into SpA (so Gyro from Forretress deals even less damage than it normally would) and a Calm nature instead of a Bold one. This can outspeed Scizor easily (when its not using BP against you), and set up Reflect before Scizor can have a chance to Pursuit, and BP won't do enough damage for it to matter much.

Now onto the reason this set is Specially Defensive, and why Rotom-C. Almost all Rapid Spinners (NU, UU, and OU) can be taken out with this set. T-Bolt is your primary attack, while Shadow Ball or Leaf Storm can take care of ground types who resist your STAB T-Bolt(Claydol, Donphan). But this still doesn't answer why you should run SpD over Def investments. The majority of Rapid Spinners are special-based, and will 2HKO your standard Rotom set with a Bold nature and 252/0/168/0/0/88 for IV's. This set works around that, and will be 3-4HKO'd at best by Rapid Spinning threats in OU such as Tenta or Starmie (factoring in Stealth Rock). By then you will have gotten rid of the threat. Another pro to this set is it can switch some Special Attackers who would normally 2HKO it easily (such as ScarfLatias).

The optional slots should be deliberated over according to what your team needs. Lead Storm can be a strong attack against unsuspecting bulky waters such as Swampert, while Shadow Ball can take care of things like Scarfed Latias stuck on Surf, etc, etc. HP Fighting over Shadow Ball can be useful against things like Tyranitar, or even Weavile if you can survive a hit from it. Will-O-Wisp can cripple things like DDmence or Scizor, and deal some residual damage as well, while Reflect provides the entire party with defensive support which could make a 1HKO a 2HKO, thus avoiding a party-wide sweep.

 

[Lady Shinki]

I like that rotom set a lot :D

I made up a smeargle set that's kind of interesting...see for yourself.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpAtk)
Ability: Own Tempo

Dragon Dance
Spore
Taunt/Explosion
Baton Pass/Explosion

This set has a specific goal in mind: keep rocks off the field with spin support or with a fast taunt lead like Aero. Come in after a sacrifice/revenge kill with smeargle (if you can swap in on a ghost hit, great! if it's choiced, even better!). Go for spore first if they're slower, taunt if you suspect them to stay in and status you/set up, then when you expect them to switch DD on the switch. Most opponents will do 3 things: switch to a setup poke like DDmence/gyara (if smeargle had hyper cutter...that would be amazing and so much more useful than own tempo), switch to a priority user like scizor, or switch to a phazer like skarm. Taunt lets you beat phazers and DD again then bp out as the sash keeps you alive. If you can get in on a pokemon like blissey while avoiding being paralyzed, you can spore, DD on the switch, then spore again as it switches out due to natural cure! Passing a +2/+2 boost is almost game-ending with the proper pokemon, and even a +1/+1 with an advantageous switch will make the opponent think twice and force them to sacrifice things to end its sweep. Luring out blissey/other natural cure pokemon and setting up on them helps this set work like a charm as long as it avoids paralysis.

You could also have fun with a +1 stab explosion if the goal is to threaten a pass then to explode on their counter...

 

[bearsfan092]

I like that rotom set a lot :D

I made up a smeargle set that's kind of interesting...see for yourself.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpAtk)
Ability: Own Tempo

Dragon Dance
Spore
Taunt/Explosion
Baton Pass/Explosion

This set has a specific goal in mind: keep rocks off the field with spin support or with a fast taunt lead like Aero. Come in after a sacrifice/revenge kill with smeargle (if you can swap in on a ghost hit, great! if it's choiced, even better!). Go for spore first if they're slower, taunt if you suspect them to stay in and status you/set up, then when you expect them to switch DD on the switch. Most opponents will do 3 things: switch to a setup poke like DDmence/gyara (if smeargle had hyper cutter...that would be amazing and so much more useful than own tempo), switch to a priority user like scizor, or switch to a phazer like skarm. Taunt lets you beat phazers and DD again then bp out as the sash keeps you alive. If you can get in on a pokemon like blissey while avoiding being paralyzed, you can spore, DD on the switch, then spore again as it switches out due to natural cure! Passing a +2/+2 boost is almost game-ending with the proper pokemon, and even a +1/+1 with an advantageous switch will make the opponent think twice and force them to sacrifice things to end its sweep. Luring out blissey/other natural cure pokemon and setting up on them helps this set work like a charm as long as it avoids paralysis.

You could also have fun with a +1 stab explosion if the goal is to threaten a pass then to explode on their counter...

Hmm... unfortunately, the prevalence of weather, along with midgame entry hazards makes this set rather tricky to pull off. The fact that you need Aerodactyl (who usually dies), a spinner, and a clean switch in (probably a sacrificed teammate) means too much support for this to work properly. I don't want to dedicate half my team simply to get this to work as intended, and of course, there will simply be times where you just can't stop residual damage.

Might work against lesser skilled players who forgo hazards, but against a marginally skilled opponent, this set isn't going anywhere.

 

[wavedash]

In all honesty, Gliscor does that much better. Bulkier and faster, possibly with Roost.

 

[Boondocker]

@life orb
56att 252spa 200spe
Rash nature
~Draco meteor
~Superpower
~Roost
~Thunderwave

This set is good if you want a good walbreaker/disabler. Every ground type is either 1hkod or 2hkod by draco meteor, and every natural cure poke is as well (bar blissey whos 1hkod by superpower). Thunderwave eases predections, and can completely ruin a scarfrachi or stop something from setting up. Dragon+fight is compely unresisted except by shedinja i believe. The att eves were to 1hko calm blissey and the speed was to outrun jolly ttar and defensive zapdos/celebi. You can play around with them and use whatever fits your style because the speed does seem like a waste.

 

[Away]

Hmm..
Mixed Charizard@Life Orb
Nature: Hasty/Naive
EV's: 148 Sp.ATK 104 Speed 252 ATT
Earthquake
Thunder Punch
Hidden Power Ice
Fire Blast

Pretty straight forward, Earthquake gives it an attack against opposing fires(namely Heatran, which it outruns with the given EV's unless it's scarfed)
ThunderPunch gives Charizard a way to combat waters and punish them for trying to get a free switchin. EV's allow it to outspeed Gyarados(before DD, all variations) as well, only nabbing a 2HKO after Intimidate, however.
HP Ice for the Dragons also trying to toy with Charizard.
Fire Blast. Yes.
Umm, Rapid Spin support suggested as with all Charizard sets.

(Should you choose to lead with it, use Focus Sash over suggested item)
Azelf- Cannot beat, switch out
Metagross- Fire Blast
Swampert- Cannot beat, switch out
Jirachi- FireBlast
Aerodactyl- HP ice on the turn it SR's(should it attack, you bring it down to it's sash only, however, you either kill it when it SR's before dying or, you die and stop SR)
Infernape- Earthquake(Same as Aerodactyl)
Roserade- FireBlast
Heatran- Earthquake(unfortunately, only a 2HKO here)
Tyranitar- Best to switch out, or go for a 2HKO on the turn it SR's
Gliscor- HP Ice

 

[haunter]

Assuming that's a lead: you're wrong about Aerodactyl as stone edge\rock slide will simply ohko you and Aero is faster; Roserade is faster than you and will put you to sleep before you can touch her; Jirachi and Metagross won't be staying in on you, but since you're easily countered by the likes of Latias, Vaporeon and Starmie that's not a big issue for your opponent as you can't set up any entry hazard; Infernape will just set up its SR and possibly endeavor you letting you die from LO recoil. There are definitely better options for a lead Pokemon in OU.

@Ladies Man: sadly without fire blast every steel type barring Heatran and Lucario is coming in almost for free, you can barely scratch Metagross and Scizor, and Skarmory and Forretress (especially if they run SpD EVs) will get a free layer of spikes. Most Pokemon that switch into Dragonite are either slow walls which don't care about paralysis or fast revenge killers that will force you out anyway.

 

[gaudetjaja]

EvilMario, I do not appreciate that you doubt my calcs (I think you yourself are doing something wrong here, I DO use smogon calc). Obviously I have tested it myself, and it DOES 2hko. Once again, I use max attack evs with Jolly nature, and I use the sets that Smogon Calc gives when selecting the standard lead set (if I select LeadApe in the drop down menu, for example. I HAVE checked to see if this matches the standard analysis, and it does. Sometimes there's an error though, for example on the smeargle spiker lead where it lists 252 att evs instead of 252 hp, which is why that calc WAS wrong).

I might come up with some logs later.

EDIT: Gallade makes a remarkably good teammate for bulk up passing lead floatzel; it is Specially Defensive and has monstrous attack. Although usually frail to physical assaults, it will now be a lot more bulky due to Bulk Up. Yes it is slow, but it does learn a priority attack (shadow sneak) which can help it against stuff like Gengar or Azelf.

Since it's too slow to outspeed much things, I usually just run a more bulky EV spread to let it last longer.

 

[Boondocker]

@Ladies Man: sadly without fire blast every steel type barring Heatran and Lucario is coming in almost for free, you can barely scratch Metagross and Scizor, and Skarmory and Forretress (especially if they run SpD EVs) will get a free layer of spikes. Most Pokemon that switch into Dragonite are either slow walls which don't care about paralysis or fast revenge killers that will force you out anyway.

Really? I wouldnt call this barely scratching:

Draco meteor vs 252hp 0spd skarmory: 52.1%-61.4%
Superpower vs @252hp 176 def skarmory : 28.1%-33.2%
Draco metoer vs 252 hp forteress: 55.1%-65.3%
Superpower vs 252hp 144def forteress: 27.1%-32.2%
Draco meteor vs 0 hp jirachi: 46%-54.3%
Superpower vs 248hp scizor: 45.5%-53.6%
Draco meteor vs 248hp scizor: 45.5%-53.4%
(i used the standard mixnite eves but it really doesnt matter since all i did was move some attack eves into spa so draco+superpower still does the same amount)

That means that if skarm takes around 8% and switches into sr you ko it 100% of the time with a combination of draco meteor and superpower. Same with forteress. And i dont wanna hear "what if skarm runs spd eves" beacuse if it does it will take that much more from superpower. You obviously wouldnt use twave against a stall team you would try to break the walls with your attacks. Twave is mostly for offensive teams. Imagine if your up against a team with Scarf heatran locked into fire blast and you know they have a latias. What do you do? If you superpower and they go to latias your screwed. If you draco meteor and they stay in your gonna lose a huge chunk of health/be crippled. Twave ruins BOTH pokes and you can roost off the damage while being faster. I admit scizor can hurt you badly but he hurts any dragonite set if it gets in on anything but a fire move. But with this set he can only absorb 1 of either superpower OR draco meteor before its ko'd. So basically its forced to bullet punch and we all know how many pokes can take advantage of a bullet punch (magnezone anyone?). The only other revenge killer that can force you out after being paralyzed is scarfrachi. But if you paralze it then IMO dragonite did its job and now your lucario/gyrados/whatever can sweep without worring about it. You can even scout to see what move it uses or a full parylsis because:

252att jirachi ice punch vs roosting min/min dragonite: 44.6%-53.3%

With the standard mixnite after you use draco meteor you basicaly a sitting duck for things like gyrados/suicune/agiligross/togekiss/cm latias to completely shit on you. But twave helps you keep them from setting up on you and often completely ruins them. Bottom line i tested this set and it works

 

[haunter]

I know that thunder wave has its uses, and my bad, I meant to say specially defensive variants of Skarm and Forry, which is where fire blast comes into play:

DM vs 252 HP\ 252 SpD impish Skarm: 38.3% - 45.2%

DM vs 252 HP\ 252 SpD careful Forretress: 35.9% - 42.4%

they'll just force you out, especially Skarm.

And

With the standard mixnite after you use draco meteor you basicaly a sitting duck for things like gyrados/suicune/agiligross/togekiss/cm latias to completely shit on you. But twave helps you keep them from setting up on you and often completely ruins them. Bottom line i tested this set and it works

agilGross often carries lum berry so thunder wave would be pretty useless, Suicune has often rest and usually doesn't rely upon speed to work, CM Latias will just go for an easy OHKO with dragon pulse. Again, I'm not saying that thuner wave is useless, it's just that dragon\fire is just too useful to give it up.

252att jirachi ice punch vs roosting min/min dragonite: 44.6%-53.3%

that's still a clean 2hko so I don't know what you're trying to say, especially since Jirachi is faster and unless it comes in on the thunder wave it will still outspeed and ohko you. Nonetheless, without fire blast or EQ you're not going to damage it.

 

[viol and bass]

Gaudetjaja, you're right and I apologize. I hadn't done calcs, automatically assuming some combinations to KO Floatzel, and I was mistaken. It appears that it does fair quite well against most common leads. Congratulations and nice set.

 

[gaudetjaja]

Here is an example of how destructive floatzel can really be. First, it beats up the Infernape (although it does get rocks up, my team doesn't really mind that much). Then it opens up a gallade sweep. And figure I didn't even play perfectly, and could have gotten two bulk up boosts!
@purpureal sunshine - That's okay. I hope that some of you guys will help me playtest this set some time, since it's a lead and an anti-lead at the same time!

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause, Soul Dew Clause
gaudetjajatest sent out inner toob (lvl 100 Floatzel ♂).
Jiminy555 sent out Infernape (lvl 100 Infernape ♂).
inner toob used Aqua Jet.
It's super effective!
Infernape lost 76% of its health.
Infernape used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
  
Jiminy555 switched in Skarmory (lvl 100 Skarmory ♂).
inner toob used Aqua Jet.
Skarmory lost 11% of its health.
  
inner toob used Taunt.
Skarmory fell for the taunt!
Skarmory used Spikes.
Skarmory can't use Spikes after the taunt!
  
inner toob used Bulk Up.
inner toob's attack was raised.
inner toob's defence was raised.
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
inner toob lost 41% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 13% of its health.

EDIT: I have also been thinking about a Rain Dance Floatzel, following more or less the same principle as the BP version. HOWEVER, to test this I need a Rain dance team which I do not have at the moment, so this is just Theorymon. The only reason I post it now already is that I have a similar set so I do have some experience with it, and necessary calcs etc.

Rain Dance Lead Floatzel (Floatzel) (M) @ Focus Sash/ Damp Rock
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aqua Jet/Waterfall
- Taunt
- Rain Dance
- Brick Break/Waterfall/Ice Punch/Return

This set is virtually guaranteed to set up Rain Dance (except for Aerodactyl leads, which it can 2hko with Aqua Jet) to open up a sweep for something like Kingdra. Unlike the BP set, it can actually threaten to sweep itself, since virtually nothing will outspeed it in the Rain due to Swift Swim, and it does boast quite a bit of attack.

Aqua Jet's only purpose is to beat Infernape and Aerodactyl. If you do not mind losing to Aerodactyl leads (You can still set up Rain Dance on Infernape leads) then Waterfall is a fine alternative, being a very strong move in the Rain.

There will be absolutely nothing that could stop Floatzel from doing anything; it will either severely damage a pokemon, or set up the possibly destructive Rain Dance. Focus Sash is for extra durability and a chance to do as much damage as possible, as well as a 100% guarantee to set up Rain Dance. However, you may favor Damp Rock to ensure that the rain lasts for 8 turns; you will lose against leads that outspeed you, though, and Floatzel will become a true suicide lead. If you prefer longer lasting rain, I think that other set up leads would outclass Floatzel as they are more durable.

thoughts? is this worth to play test?

 

[haunter]

A rain dance set is already in the analysis, though if you plan on leading with it, then taunt would be a good option and you might want to have enough speed to beat the likes of naive Heatran and and maybe Roserade (though you need to win a mind game with the latter).

 

[acid_paradox]

Specially Defensive Lawn Mower (Rotom-C) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/88 SpA/168 SpD
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball/HP Fighting
- Leaf Storm/Shadow Ball
- Reflect/Will-O-Wisp

While Rotom plays a good spin-blocker/minor physical wall at the same time, most people overlook its Special Defense. This set attempts to catch opposing rapid spinners off guard with its special defense investments and type coverage while still having the ability to be a decent special wall.

The invested EV's are exactly the Rotom-H's standard set except with the Def EV's moved into SpD, and Spe moved into SpA (so Gyro from Forretress deals even less damage than it normally would) and a Calm nature instead of a Bold one. This can outspeed Scizor easily (when its not using BP against you), and set up Reflect before Scizor can have a chance to Pursuit, and BP won't do enough damage for it to matter much.

Now onto the reason this set is Specially Defensive, and why Rotom-C. Almost all Rapid Spinners (NU, UU, and OU) can be taken out with this set. T-Bolt is your primary attack, while Shadow Ball or Leaf Storm can take care of ground types who resist your STAB T-Bolt(Claydol, Donphan). But this still doesn't answer why you should run SpD over Def investments. The majority of Rapid Spinners are special-based, and will 2HKO your standard Rotom set with a Bold nature and 252/0/168/0/0/88 for IV's. This set works around that, and will be 3-4HKO'd at best by Rapid Spinning threats in OU such as Tenta or Starmie (factoring in Stealth Rock). By then you will have gotten rid of the threat. Another pro to this set is it can switch some Special Attackers who would normally 2HKO it easily (such as ScarfLatias).

The optional slots should be deliberated over according to what your team needs. Lead Storm can be a strong attack against unsuspecting bulky waters such as Swampert, while Shadow Ball can take care of things like Scarfed Latias stuck on Surf, etc, etc. HP Fighting over Shadow Ball can be useful against things like Tyranitar, or even Weavile if you can survive a hit from it. Will-O-Wisp can cripple things like DDmence or Scizor, and deal some residual damage as well, while Reflect provides the entire party with defensive support which could make a 1HKO a 2HKO, thus avoiding a party-wide sweep.

reposting for more feedback

 

[Phantom_IV]

Just mentioning that Special Defensive Forry run payback, not gyro ball. And take minimal damage from thunderbolt. You're still 2HKO'ed by LO starmie btw.

 

[Boondocker]

I know that thunder wave has its uses, and my bad, I meant to say specially defensive variants of Skarm and Forry, which is where fire blast comes into play:

DM vs 252 HP\ 252 SpD impish Skarm: 38.3% - 45.2%

DM vs 252 HP\ 252 SpD careful Forretress: 35.9% - 42.4%

they'll just force you out, especially Skarm.

I understand what your trying to say, but you fail to realize that the more spd eves they run the more damage they will take from superpower. No matter what combination of def+spd eves skarm runs dm+superpower will always do the same amount.

Superpower vs 252hp 252spd impish skarm: 32%-38%

now add the damage from dm and you have 70.3%-83.2%
with sr its 82.8%-95.7%. That means if skarm takes a little bit of damage beforehand it cannot switch into one of your attacks without being 2hkod, regardless of if its a defensive version or a spd version. Its kinda like boah (without flamethrower) you wouldnt switch in on a skarm, you switch in on blissey and threaten to 1hko and go from there.

And

agilGross often carries lum berry so thunder wave would be pretty useless, Suicune has often rest and usually doesn't rely upon speed to work, CM Latias will just go for an easy OHKO with dragon pulse. Again, I'm not saying that thuner wave is useless, it's just that dragon\fire is just too useful to give it up.

True, but the point is it stops some stuff from trying to set up on you, mainly gyrados and salemence. Yes they can streight up 1hko you but if they try to set up they get ruined. And im talking about after you use dm btw

that's still a clean 2hko so I don't know what you're trying to say, especially since Jirachi is faster and unless it comes in on the thunder wave it will still outspeed and ohko you. Nonetheless, without fire blast or EQ you're not going to damage it.

Im saying if you hit it with a twave you can scout for the full paralysis with roost as long as you avoid freeze hax. Your now at full health and next time jirachi switches in it will take 91.1%-105.5% from dm+superpower+sr. You get forced out once, but now they dont have a revenge killer. I used a min/min jirachi since most seem to run max speed nowadays

 

[haunter]

I understand what your trying to say, but you fail to realize that the more spd eves they run the more damage they will take from superpower. No matter what combination of def+spd eves skarm runs dm+superpower will always do the same amount.

Superpower vs 252hp 252spd impish skarm: 32%-38%

now add the damage from dm and you have 70.3%-83.2%
with sr its 82.8%-95.7%. That means if skarm takes a little bit of damage beforehand it cannot switch into one of your attacks without being 2hkod, regardless of if its a defensive version or a spd version. Its kinda like boah (without flamethrower) you wouldnt switch in on a skarm, you switch in on blissey and threaten to 1hko and go from there.

That's correct, but what if Skarm comes in after you kill something with DM or superpower? You're basically forced to switch out whereas with fire blast you'll 2hko it even after the SpA drop, while if it switches in after the Atk drop from superpower you'll always ohko it. Forretress is instead always ohko'd even after the SpA drop. Finally, while after the drops Scizor can come in and start spamming u-turns or just BP you to death (assuming you took LO and SR damage) fire blast will make it think twice before switching in and u-turn.

True, but the point is it stops some stuff from trying to set up on you, mainly gyrados and salemence. Yes they can streight up 1hko you but if they try to set up they get ruined. And im talking about after you use dm btw

In fact, I didn't say that thunder wave is useless, especially since most people won't see that coming after they see LO damage.

Im saying if you hit it with a twave you can scout for the full paralysis with roost as long as you avoid freeze hax. Your now at full health and next time jirachi switches in it will take 91.1%-105.5% from dm+superpower+sr. You get forced out once, but now they dont have a revenge killer. I used a min/min jirachi since most seem to run max speed nowadays

Eh, but sadly that requires perfect "prediction" as Jirachi needs to come in on the thunder wave for that strategy to work.