New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

[Eggbert]

I was looking for a solid lead that could rapid spin AND set up stealth rock (sorry Starmie) while not being complete fodder (sorry Forry). I found Donphan.

Donphan@Focus Sash
Adamant
80 HP/252 Atk/176 Spe
-Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
-Ice shard
-Assurance/Earthquake/Seed Bomb

Moves are self explanatory, except seed bomb can 2HKO swampert 100% of the time. Ice shard deals with Aerodactyl, Assurance with azelf. Focus sash allows you to tank out strong dracometeors, hydro pumps, leaf storms, and either set up or attack back.

Assurance + Ice Shard Takes down Azelf
Seed Bomb 2HKOs Swampert
Ice Shard does 43-51% to Aerodactyl (two ice shards + Rapid spin can KO)
Earthquake does max 87% to metagross/ground weak lead, switching out to a ghost to take the explosion


The point is to set up stealth rock and get back later and rapid spin for there is limited space for rapid spin on an offensive team that already uses or has no room for starmie.

The speed evs outpace 8 spe metagross, swampert, hippowdon, bronzong, ect.

This is all theory, what do you think?

Ok, I tried it out. If it carries the right moves, it can take out the appropriate lead, but suffers from moveslot syndrome.

 

[Ferrouswheel]

Special Sleep Talk Bronzong - Give the ugly thing some love.

Bronzong - Bold - Levitate
180 HP / 130 Def / 200 Sp. Atk
Moveset :
- Flash Cannon
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind
- Rest


Threats that begin with Blisse*:

Blissey (11.6% of teams)
Yeah, the pink blob. Not much to say except as a sleeping steel, that outside of Seismic toss a 3HKO, Blissey isn't doing much to Bronzong either.

I'll come out with a more specific threats later, but from my preliminary analysis aside from a couple CB Fire Punch moves, there didn't seem to be many things that could 2HKO Bronzong aside from Infernape with Flare Blitz.

I would appreciate some feedback.

****
P.S. I was looking at the Feb 2010 Standard Ladder Stats, and notice that a single Garchomp was used, what the heck?

 

[Alan]

That Bronzong set is awful at best.

Skarmory or Pert or Gyara can all switch in and just Roar you away while you do barely any damage. Scizor can use U-Turn or Superpower on you while you scrape it with your Flash Cannon. Other Bronzongs say "haha look at this guy." Suicune sets up in your face. Jirachi tricks you. Starmie does too. As does MixApe. Fuck the only thing this hits for good damage is Weavile and Tyranitar, who is easily dealt with in other ways. I fail to see how that is a good set at all? If anything, put Psychic >> Flash Cannon, hits Fighting-Types & Poison-Types (Loom, Hera, Machamp, Roserade, Tenta etc) for SE, hits Lucario for Neutral, and tbh probably KO's after 2 CMs, since Luke is as frail as dried turd. Actually does damage to Gyara, Mence, Nite, and other things.

Sorry if I came off as angry or anything, but Flash Cannon is terrible.

 

[NightmareZ]

I'm testing a jolteon lead set, which I think is working decently. I'll post the actual set soon.

Alright here is the set:

Jolteon@Zap Plate
Timid
152def/218spa/136spe

T-bolt
Hp grass
magnet rise
quick attack

I've been working on this set for a while now and I think its just about done. The defensive EVs are to survive Aero's EQ than KO back with t-bolt and quick attack. The speed EVs are to outspeed max speed azelf for the 2HKO with tbolt. The special attack for as much power as possible. Against Azelf a double tbolt is used, against pert i magnet rise then use HP twice, against gross I rise then tbolt for the 2HKO. Then against aero i use the tbolt quick attack combo. Jirachi can be a pain but it comes down to hax and what move they use for this one.

If you have a question on how it performs against a certain lead let me know.

 

[M4GNITUDE]

TrapBreon

So, you have a Gengar problem? Latias problem? Fear not citizens!

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Careful
252 HP/164 Atk/92 SpDef
~Wish/Heal Bell
~Yawn
~Sucker Punch
~Pursuit

*To note, the EVs can be changed to something more offensive if you wish.

This Umbreon can trap any psychic or ghost type. With the investment of HP and SpDef EVs, it can live those pesky Draco Meteors and Focus Blasts from Gengars and Latias(i?). Wish or Heal Bell can be used depending on if you want to be able to Wish Pass after taking out your ghost/psychic threat. If you choose Heal Bell, then you can not be toxic stalled or even heal status of other pokes.

Sucker Punch + Pursuit should be obvious in how it traps a pokemon. If it attacks, it gets hit first. If it switches out, it's going to get hit for damage. Yawn will almost always prompt a switch, giving you a free pursuit on the poke.

Here is an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZh9Sk3X3P8

Go to 4:10 in that video.

 

[Staraptor Call]

On Jolteon, why the Zap plate? If you used a Focus Sash, the set would be better. You would be able to survive Earthquake from Swampert, outspeed, and 2HKO. This means you would not have to run Magnet Rise, so you can make room for Baton Pass or Shadow Ball.

 

[DDRMaster]

On Jolteon, why the Zap plate? If you used a Focus Sash, the set would be better. You would be able to survive Earthquake from Swampert, outspeed, and 2HKO. This means you would not have to run Magnet Rise, so you can make room for Baton Pass or Shadow Ball.

I think its so you have a pretty good chance of 2HKOing Metagross, although it might just Explode right in your face after you Magnet Rise so Focus Sash is certainly a good idea.

That Umbreon looks pretty good, since it's basically the trapper Spiritomb set but Yawn makes it so your opponent can't set up easily. Maybe you should post some damage calcs (both of you) so we can see what they can do.

 

[NightmareZ]

I tested a lot of items actually and sash is one of them. The reason is for the 2HKO on gross. If gross uses EQ than u survive because of sash. Than u use tbolt and die to bullet punch.

I find that shadow ball doesn't really help much when your leading and magnet rise is only their for a safety net against gross. Because it seems most perts SR on the first turn predicting a switch.

Hope that answers your questions.

Also due to a calculating error the EVs are wrong. There is supposed to be four extra EVs in spa. As at the moment it adds to 506.

Anyway I'll give you the calcs after the next reply.

NightmareZ

 

[Daniel Craig]

It has always interested me how people can win by making an other pokemon struggle so this is my attempt at a struggle set

I decided on which moves i needed and only realized that the only pokemon capable of pulling of this strategy was smeargle so heres the set

Smeargle @ Choice item
Ability: Own Tempo
Nature: Jolly
Ev's: 252HP / 252 Spe / 4Def
-Spore/Baton Pass
-Torment
-Taunt
-Trick

So basically the set works if you are baton passed a trapping move from a pokemon.. lets say umbreon for sake of the argument

so your baton passed a mean look from umbreon

the opposing pokemon is then tricked to lock them into a move you can either

a) torment of its an attacking move or
b) taunt if it is non attacking

(if you taunted you can also torment after to speed up the process

baton pass if purely there in a pinch but spore is often the better option

the opponent should then struggle losing 1/4 of there HP each time :)


i would have liked this moveset to have been available on a more bulky pokemon but what you gunna do.

so this is my attempt at making the opponent struggle.


(this set is also very effective agaist mono-attackers)


plz tell me your views :D

 

[Sy123]

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Calm 252 HP/224 Sp.Def/36 Spe
~Charge Beam
~Heat Wave
~Reflect
~Roost

OK the EV spread is the same as the Special Bulky Zapdos, becasue I am crap with EV distribution. This can tank up both sides of the spectrum, when they find I am specially bulky, they would switch while I use Charge Beam, then I would use Reflect to boost defense, walling the physical spectrum. Then I will Charge Beam again and again, then Roost when necessary, then after that I will use a combo of, either Charge Beam/Heat Wave.

Leftovers is for some needed recovery.

TEAM SUPPORT
OK a good Water type, is a good choice, Milotic with Surf/Ice Beam can take the likes of Gliscor and Hippowdon. Which threaten this set, also either a spinner and or an Anti Lead to prevent Stealth Rock from entering the field


Thanks and I hope you like it

 

[DDRMaster]

Go with Hidden Power Ice on that Zapdos because it gives the best coverage along with Charge Beam. Charge Beam + Heat Wave is walled by Dragons and Swampert and Grounds to a lesser extent. You're going to want to have an SE attack against Grounds because you can't set up against them. For team options, I'm not sure Spin Support is required since you have Roost, but it can still help. You're going to need counters to certain Pokemon that that set can't do too much to. Tyranitar can switch-in and hit you with Stone Edge, and will outspeed you if it's holding a Choice Scarf. Swampert makes a good partner because it can take Rock attacks aimed at Zapdos, while Zapdos can take Grass attacks aimed at Swampert and things like Celebi are just set up fodder for Zapdos. Blissey with Toxic (or even Toxic in general) will be a big problem for Zapdos, as will Swampert so a Pokemon that can set up Toxic Spikes, like Roserade or Tentacruel, will be beneficial.

 

[acinod]

Forretress @ Macho Brace
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Brave
IV: 0 Spe
Ev's: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
-Spikes/Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
-Gyro Ball
-Earthquake

This is suppose to function as a lead. How it fares against the top 10 leads:
Azelf - Gyro Ball as it Taunts, bringing it down to red HP. Rapid Spin as it sets up Stealth Rock. (Note if it has a fire attack you lose)
Swampert - You can both setup Stealth Rock. Rapid Spin if you think he is going to switch.
Metagross - Stealth Rock then Earthquake.
Aerodactyl - Gyro Ball as it Taunts, bringing it down to red HP. Rapid Spin as it sets up Stealth Rock.
Jirachi - Earthquake as it Tricks its Choice Scarf to you and continue using Earthquake. Earthquake will always 2HKO.
Infernape - You lose here. Best to switch out to a bulky water to take whatever it throws at you.
Roserade - Best to switch out and you Forretress to spin away hazards later. Roserade will most likely sleep you and from there she can do whatever she wants (HP Fire or Toxic Spikes)
Tyranitar - Gyro Ball will OHKO Scarf Tyranitar while none of its attacks really hurt.
Ninjask - Immediately switch. You are setup fodder. If you feel you have a reliable way of stopping Ninjask then feel free to setup your Stealth Rock then switch out.
Heatran - Fire Blast will kill you. It is safer to switch.

Finally I've been thinking of swapping Macho Brace for Occa Berry. It might let you survive a few fire attacks from the likes of Heatran and Infernape and let you dent them with your Earthquake, OHKOing the former and bringing the latter to 1HP.

 

[NightmareZ]

T-bolt vs lead azelf ------> 84.5% - 100%

HP Grass vs Mixpert lead ------> 72.3% - 85.1%

T-bolt vs leadgross------> 48.6 - 57.1%

T-bolt vs Aerodactyl------> 135.8% - 160.9%

Quick Attack vs Aerodactyl------> 4.3% - 5.3%

T-bolt vs Jirachi lead set------> 44.9% - 53.2%

T-bolt vs Leadape------> 81.2% - 96.2%

There are your calcs

NightmareZ

 

[Staraptor Call]

Life Orb would be better on Lead Jolteon. Life Orb would let Jolteon hit for 94.0% - 110.6% against Swampert, while with a Zap Plate it never OHKOs. Life Orb would also greatly raise the odds of 2HKOing Jirachi and would guarantee a 2HKO on Metagross. Since Jolteon is so fragile already, Life Orb recoil won't be too great a loss.

 

[DDRMaster]

Life Orb would be better on Lead Jolteon. Life Orb would let Jolteon hit for 94.0% - 110.6% against Swampert, while with a Zap Plate it never OHKOs. Life Orb would also greatly raise the odds of 2HKOing Jirachi and would guarantee a 2HKO on Metagross. Since Jolteon is so fragile already, Life Orb recoil won't be too great a loss.

It seems to me that the whole point of that lead is to be able to survive a Aerodactyl's Earthquake and KO it with Thunderbolt + Quick Attack. If you run Life Orb, the recoil will kill it.

 

[kg959]

Umbreon @Leftovers
EV's in Defense and Speed
Bold Nature
Toxic
Confuse Ray
Mud Slap
Pursuit/Moonlight

Toxic, Confuse Ray, and Mud Slap are all reasons to switch out and Pursuit punishes those who try. Those who stick around have to deal with increasing poison damage, confusion, and constantly decreasing accuracy. Mud Slap plays a role of annoyer and critical effectiveness on the poisons and steels toxic can't touch. The base power sucks, but your objective is to force a switch and punish it, not deal damage. The only downside I see off the bat for this is you have to guess the switch, so there's a fair amount of mind games/luck that goes into this.

Moonlight over Pursuit gives Umbreon slightly more staying power changes the his role to attempting to badly poison an entire team instead of trying to punish a switch. Umbreon's stats should be good enough to give him enough staying power to try it. Additionally, if you're using a stealth rock setup on your team, this tends to create a no-win situation.

 

[Lucalibur]

that set is pretty fucking horrible, first of all umbreon has no use for speed, second you are using pursuit with a BOLD nature and not even mentioning that hax sets are never trully effective, also steel types have fun with that set.

 

[kg959]

you are using pursuit with a BOLD nature

My bad, when I picked the nature, I was looking at the moonlight set. Impish works way better with the pursuit set.

steel types have fun with that set.

I agree. Against steel types, this is nothing more than an annoyer. The objective here is not to beat all types. The objective is to send this in against any standard non-steel non-poison type, poison it and attempt to force a switch, then pursuit it when it tries to run.

 

[Lucalibur]

then i sugest you put some atack evs because pursuit will do pathetic damage even on the switch, you need no speed so i sugest you run a careful set with 252hp/216atack/40special defense, with this not only you can still take both physical and special assaults but a pursuit on the switch will severely damage anything different from your previous spreed. keep the leftovers though

 

[DDRMaster]

When I look at an Ubreon set I think, what can it do to Scizor, because Scizor is the number one used Pokemon and will get a free switch in on almost any Umbreon. If you want to force you opponent to switch, use Yawn, as it will actually allow you to do something to Scizor (provided you run Protect so it can't U-turn out). Also, Umbreon has pretty terrible offenses so you're not going to do much to anything, even if it does switch. Payback is normally the only move used on Umbreon because it gets 100 Base Power when Umbreon goes second, which is most of the time, and is really only used so Umbreon can do something if it gets Taunted.

 

[Seraphic]

Insurance Ambipom

Ambipom@Life Orb
Jolly Nature
252 Atk/252 Spe
Fake Out
Quick attack
Pursuit/low kick/return
Pursuit/Low kick/return

The basic idea of this set is to have a very powerful priority user who can revenge kill many sweepers who have already set up. The combination of fake out, quick attack, and technition leaves for what is essentially a 120 bp move with stab that always goes first. Too lazy to get calcs, but it does something like 70% minimum to latias, mence, gyrados, and starmie and can deal with others fairly well, like jolteon.

 

[Gottabeperfect]

K

This is my lead for the VGC 2010, wondering if Trick Room would be better though…anyways, So here's the combo:

Metagross @Pecha Berry
Clear Body
Adamant/Jolly
58HP/252Att/50Def/0SpAtt/50SpDef/100Spd
Tricky Attempter
-Trick
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Bullet Punch

-Since VGCs are doubles, this works out nicely, even though Metagross isn’t that speedy.
-Since it will take a turn to get Gallade poisoned, its first move will be to lay the Stealth Rock trap.
-After a turn, its partner Gallade gets poisoned, and at that point, if the opponent isn’t steel or pressuring me too much to use the move, Meta uses Trick on Gallade, then in the next turn(or anytime which I can find time to use the technique without dying) it uses it to move the Toxic Orb to the opponent.
-Earthquake is safe to use since Gallade can Protect, and Bullet Punch is a must for immediate speed.

Gallade @Toxic Orb
Steadfast
Adamant/Jolly
50HP/100Att/80Def/0SpAtt/100SpDef/180Spd
Tricky Hitter
-Facade
-Leaf Blade
-Protect/Pain Split
-Stone Edge

-It will take a turn for the Tox Orb to get its affect, so it defends or attacks(not Façade)
-It Facades, or if the opponent isn’t hugely affected by the Façade, then Metagross can use Trick and cure Gallade before it loses too much life. At this point, Protect or Pain Split is good for avoiding hits and getting back lost HP from the Poison.
-Rock for its type advantages, Grass for those irritating Ground/Water types which are so abundant nowadays.

 

[wavedash]

Insurance Ambipom

Ambipom@Life Orb
Jolly Nature
252 Atk/252 Spe
Fake Out
Quick attack
Pursuit/low kick/return
Pursuit/Low kick/return

The basic idea of this set is to have a very powerful priority user who can revenge kill many sweepers who have already set up. The combination of fake out, quick attack, and technition leaves for what is essentially a 120 bp move with stab that always goes first. Too lazy to get calcs, but it does something like 70% minimum to latias, mence, gyrados, and starmie and can deal with others fairly well, like jolteon.

Well, with a 120 base attack move (Mega Kick, for calc purposes), before STAB...

DD Mence: 77% - 90.9%
Offensive CM / Scarf / Specs Latias: 76.8% - 90.7%
DD Gyara: 77.3% - 91.5%
Bulky DD Gyara: 62.4% - 73.8%
Rapid Spin Starmie: 69.5% - 82.4%
4 / 0 Starmie: 93.1% - 109.9%
Jolteon: 118.4% - 139.3%
Infernape: 96.2% - 113.7%
WishBliss: 64.1% - 75.5%

Impressive.

 

[DDRMaster]

In all that time you spent using Trick, you could have easily KOd your opponent. Also, I don't think Toxic Orb will be much of an issue for you opponent since I don't think stalling is very common in doubles. You don't even need Toxic Orb, really. You could just have Metagross use Toxic on Gallade and use another Item and you can fire off Toxic at your opponent at any time. Also, Pecha Berry is completely useless on Metagross, since it will cure Gallade's Poison and ruin your whole strategy. I don't really see what that Gallade has over Ursaring/Heracross since it doesn't get STAB Facade and it doesn't have an ability that takes advantage of the status.

The people here will be able to help you more than I can because they're played VGC.

On that Aipom, I'd probably just run Low Kick and Pusuit (or Payback) and not run Return. U-turn would be a good option as well since it allows you to dent things that are slower than you when you need to switch.

I'm very confused by those calcs. Ambipom can only do 55.9% - 65.9% to Blissey with Mega Kick with max Atk Adamant and a Life Orb. I think what ever calculator you're using is overestimating because it isn't rounding down. So those calcs become (w/ Jolly):

DD Salamence: 61.6% - 72.8%
Offensive Latias: 61.6% - 72.5%
Offensive DD Gyara: 61.9% - 73.4%
Bulky Gyara: 49.7% - 58.6%
Spin Starmie: 55.9% - 66.1%
Offensive Starmie: 74.4% - 87.4%
Jolteon: 94.1% - 111.4%
Infernape: 77.1% - 91.1%
WishBliss: 51.3% - 60.4%

Keep in mind that since this is two attacks, Leftovers will heal them 6.25%, if they have it. More calcs:

Return:

Blissey: 43.8% - 51.6% (69.5% - 81.8% with Fake Out included)
Spin Starmie: 47.6% - 56.6% (75.6% - 99.2% w/ FO)
Offensive Starmie: 63.4% - 74.8% (KO after Fake Out unless it runs Leftovers, 100.6% minimum)
Offensive Latias: 52% - 61.6% (82.8% - 97.9)
Infernape: 65.6% - 77.6% (KO w/ Fake Out)

Note: I'm not bothering doing the calculations for things like Jolteon and DDMence because they will outspeed you forcing you to use Quick Attack.

Low Kick:

WishBliss: 51.1% - 60.3%
4/0 Heatran: 52.3% - 62%
Bronzong: 23.1% - 27.2%
248 HP Metagross: 24.8% - 29.5%
Lucario: 59.5% - 70%
Magnezone: 60.5% - 71.2%

Low Kick doesn't seem extremely useful to me since you can't even OHKO Lucario or Magnezone with it and it only does a little more damage than Return to Blissey.

Pursuit: (Assuming they don't switch.)

Gengar: 65.9% - 78.2%
Defensive Rotom-A: 27.6% - 32.9%
Offensive Rotom-A: 45.5% - 53.7%

Payback: (Assuming you go first.)

Gengar: 81.7% - 96.9%
Defensive Rotom-A: 34.2% - 40.8%
Offensive Rotom-A: 56.2% - 66.1%

So I think you should use Payback since it hits harder, unless you're sure you can get your opponent to switch. And even then, Pursuit will only do slighty more damage than Payback. Psychic types will take slightly more damage from Return than Payback, so you're better off using that.

 

[Cuiv]

Well, with a 120 base attack move (Mega Kick, for calc purposes), before STAB...

DD Mence: 77% - 90.9%
Offensive CM / Scarf / Specs Latias: 76.8% - 90.7%
DD Gyara: 77.3% - 91.5%
Bulky DD Gyara: 62.4% - 73.8%
Rapid Spin Starmie: 69.5% - 82.4%
4 / 0 Starmie: 93.1% - 109.9%
Jolteon: 118.4% - 139.3%
Infernape: 96.2% - 113.7%
WishBliss: 64.1% - 75.5%

Impressive.

Indeed. Ambipom is an excellent revenge killer, but for some reason people only use him as a lead.

Unless you're really concerned about Starmie and Azelf (not big threats; NP Azelf is never seen, and many Starmie only run 216 Spe), you only need enough speed to outrun Latias w/o a Scarf (and Gengar, but this set does nothing to Gengar unless you run Pursuit). The rest can go into giving Ambipom some semblance of bulk.

Also, you could try Silk Scarf over Life Orb, since Life Orb is not great for lower damage-output moves like Fake Out and Quick Attack.