New OU List (January 2009)

Scofield

Ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhh, Kate.......
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Why do people always mention "I never see X on the ladder..." or "I guess I'm responsible for X's position on the usage rankings"?

The OU Ladder rankings were collected from OVER 205,000 battles in December. The most active individual battlers in Smogon might play several hundred battles, at most. Over 95% of all players play less than 100 battles in a month. On top of that, the usage numbers are based on pokemon on a team, not the pokemon appearing in battle. So you very well may have faced a team with Electivire, for example, and never saw it in the battle itself.

Any individual has a very small exposure to the overall battling sample -- certainly not enough to base statistical conclusions on personal experience. And the idea that one person's usage of Electivire (or any other top pokemon) made a dramatic impact on the overall ranking -- that's pretty silly. Electivire was used 26,701 times in December. Even if you were the most active battler in Smogon and used Electivire in every single one of your battles, you might have bumped Electivire one or two spots in the rankings. But, there are still 25,000+ other usages out there to account for Vire's popularity.

It's a different story on some of the other ladders -- but when it comes to OU play, the battle sample is large enough to be resistant to most individual oddities. It's also large enough to make most individual observations irrelevant.
I agree with this. Most people just think that percentages should be proportional, but that is obviously not always the case. If I played the same amount in December that I did in November (1000 games roughly, apparently, much to my shame) I have seen electivire several times. Do I believe that it should be OU? No. Do I believe that it is OU? Sure.

And I think Chris is taking the credit for flygon and empoleon because he wrote up the analysis of empoleon and made a thread on stark of the supposed "awesomeness" of flygon. These threads can easily influence enough players to try it out to make its usage rise notably (see colonel M's rhyperior). It's pretty much a given that if a popular player uses a Pokemon it's usage could rise, I could think of several of incidents like this.
 
This just continues to show how backward Smogon has gotten, trying to force a 50-pokemon OU tier in a metagame that is 25 pokemon wide _at best_. I think the lower tiers would be much more interesting if you guys just accepted that.
 
This just continues to show how backward Smogon has gotten, trying to force a 50-pokemon OU tier in a metagame that is 25 pokemon wide _at best_. I think the lower tiers would be much more interesting if you guys just accepted that.
I'd love to hear how this would somehow be the case.
 
This just continues to show how backward Smogon has gotten, trying to force a 50-pokemon OU tier in a metagame that is 25 pokemon wide _at best_. I think the lower tiers would be much more interesting if you guys just accepted that.
I'm sorry but, whats the problem? This is all based on usage, and I don't really see a problem at the moment. Its not really surprising for the lower of the OU tier to fluctuate now and then between pokemon because pokemon will increase and decrease in usage depending on current trends of the metagame..

In fact, as for the whole 'lower tiers' comment, I'm assuming you meant that pokemon outside of those '25' should be UU etc.. well, in a sense smogon has done something. Or are you not aware of the proposal Obi made that will be taken into effect very soon (If not already and I'm not just aware), which is the merging of BL and UU. This is a step in the right direction. Rather than stating things like this you could always just, wait it out until everything stabilizes, because as of now the dust has not settled yet in the game, and testing is still being undergone. As of now I don't think anything is set in stone yet.

Save these kinds of statements for later on after the tiers are brushed up a bit more and all the testing has been conducted and done with.

On a lighter note, good to see Flygon and Empoleon getting some love. Same for Rhyperior, he really is underrated. Glad to see the 3 of them got the usage they deserve.
 
Oh god I'm really going to have to search that new UU list and make a team. Milotic, Smeargle, and Gallade are going to tear it up.
 
Yeah, Milotic and Gallade in the UU/BL suspect ladder is going to be so much fun. I'm glad to see Flygon moved up, he was outclassed by Garchomp so well and it's nice to see him get some limelight.

I've always thought Empoleon was alright, the only selling point for me was the versatility it had. I loved my SD/AJ empoleon, that was sick. Glad to see he can't rain sumpreme in UU/BL.
 
I'm personally using the former BLs against everyone in the new UU list to promote their possibility of being OU as they were in heart top tier BLs. I'm sure a few people would agree.

Sceptile, Raikou, Gallade, Shaymin, Mesprit, and Registeel

P.S. I'm keeping my Samara (Mismagius) out of the test as her stats alone makes her situational against the current OUs....but then again my ingenius moveset combo could cause suffering...PM me if you're interested.
 

Erazor

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About all the Electivire hatred going around.............

I have used Electivire on a few teams of mine and it has won me quite a few games. I use a mix set of T-Bolt/Flamethrower/Ice punch/Earthquake and I laugh when Scizor tries to set up.

As Legacy Raider says, don't use him mid or early-game. Once you know his team and have removed its potential counters, then you can get him in, possibly activating motor drive.

Just curious though... can someone tell me why Electivire is hated so much?
 
Because they don't know how to use him. Most people complain about this speed (i.e. too slow to sweep).You don't need to sweep when you can hit nearly everything for super effective damage. I use Electivire frequently and he really is a great poke. I prefer Adamant over mixed though. People don't seem to have a problem spamming electric attacks either since they "never see Electivire". You just need some prediction...or life orb.
 

Syberia

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<3 Empoleon

Electivire can work decently against all the offensive-based teams floating around these days if he can just switch into Zapdos' Thunderbolt and the like; a shortage of defensive-based pokemon not weak to his attacks on most teams means he can easily clean up.
 

Seven Deadly Sins

~hallelujah~
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About all the Electivire hatred going around.............

I have used Electivire on a few teams of mine and it has won me quite a few games. I use a mix set of T-Bolt/Flamethrower/Ice punch/Earthquake and I laugh when Scizor tries to set up.

As Legacy Raider says, don't use him mid or early-game. Once you know his team and have removed its potential counters, then you can get him in, possibly activating motor drive.

Just curious though... can someone tell me why Electivire is hated so much?
Electivire isn't a terrible Pokemon if it can get its Motor Drive boost. However, that's the problem. It needs its boost to be good, and if it doesn't get it, it's pretty much dead weight. It outspeeds most walls but fails to OHKO them. It doesn't outspeed most offensive threats and gets OHKOed by most of them. It's not strong enough with an Expert Belt, it's too fragile with a Life Orb.

When you choose Electivire, you are choosing him because you need a way to absorb electric attacks. However, there are many other ways to do so. Swampert absorbs electric attacks, and it also walls many different Pokemon, can PHaze, and can lay SR. Jolteon absorbs Electric attacks, but it also revenge kills many major threats and can Baton Pass Substitutes or Agility. Flygon absorbs Electric attacks, but it also hits incredibly hard with Outrage and a Band or is blistering fast with a Choice Scarf. Celebi resists Electric and has Natural Cure for Paralysis, but it can also do a LOT of supporting as well as potentially Baton Passing boosts or Calm Minding and sweeping. Electivire, it absorbs Electric attacks... and then nothing. When worse comes to worse, you're almost 100% of the time better off with another method of intercepting Electric attacks than Electivire.
 

Syberia

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You don't use Electivire to "absorb" electric attacks, you use Electivire to (hopefully) sweep with a +1 speed boost. If you simply wish to absorb electric attacks, a Ground-type is almost always better.
 

SoT

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well, glad to see Rhyperior and Flygon in Ou. Finally getting some recognition! Flygon has got to be the greatest mon in the world, rhyperior is just a beast1 Sad to Gallade go, coolest looking mon ever.
 
But what are the chances that the opponent will not use Electric moves (thus giving you the chance to switch in Electivire)? Will all the Gyarados running around, you probably need something to hit it, or you'll be in big trouble. Besides, Electric has good coverage with other types (namely Ice), which means that it doesn't hurt to have Electric on your moveslot.

Besides, Zapdos is a top-tier OU, which means that Electivire will have a chance to come in.
 
Cool! Aero, Flygon, Kingdra. is now OU,


And Does this list affect all of the poke sites out there?
 

Erazor

✓ Just Doug It
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So basically, Electivire isn't used because it doesn't pack raw power?

@Seven Deadly Sins: I used Electivire as a sweeper, not as an Electric attack-absorber.
 

X-Act

np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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This just continues to show how backward Smogon has gotten, trying to force a 50-pokemon OU tier in a metagame that is 25 pokemon wide _at best_. I think the lower tiers would be much more interesting if you guys just accepted that.
I suggest you read this thread to see why we're actually not forcing anything!
 
I'd love to hear how this would somehow be the case.
Seconded. Another case of an 'OU sucks' whiner.

Anyway, surprising that Gallade would fall to BL, especially since a few people attempted to boost its popularity.

I find it sad that some people would have Raikou stay in BL, the guy is gonna tear new UU limb to limb.
 

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