Metagame NFE Metagame

Cheff Gordo

Cheff Gordo

RuffletMuffler said:
Getting this thread started with a slightly controversial nomination but one that I believe there's enough support behind to make this post worthwhile

Nominating Roselia for S:
In my very large amount of time playing NFE (so long I don't even remember who invited me to it and long enough to go through 3 different tier leaders) I've witnessed the rise of Roselia as the premier check to certain threats as well as the premier spike setter of NFE. I wont talk about Roselia's performance in previous iterations of the meta as that doesn't apply to it currently.

The most important aspect of Roselia's viability is its access to spikes. In a metagame as slow and bulky as NFE currently is, the damage done my spikes is monumental, especially with the majority of Pokemon not having access to a recovery move barring rest. Spikes are what set Roselia apart from almost every other grass type in the meta. Quilladin and Ferroseed also have access to spikes but do not provide other things that Roselia does

What pushes Roselia above and beyond in my opinion is its ability to counter Servine and non-specially defensive Clefairy thanks to its defensive typing and impressive base 80 special defense stat in conjunction with its base 100 special attack.

Vs. Servine Roselia is able to come in on a leaf storm and 3hko the common specially defensive spread with sludge bomb while servine is unable to beat it with even a +6 hidden power fire

0 SpA Roselia Sludge Bomb vs. 180 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Servine: 114-134 (37.2 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

4 SpA Contrary Servine Leaf Storm over 3 turns vs. 32 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 76-90 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- not a KO

+6 4 SpA Servine Hidden Power Fire vs. 32 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 128-152 (51.4 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The Roselia spread I used in these calcs runs 220 speed evs in order to outspeed this specific Servine Spread, a set without these speed evs means taking even less damage from Servine but also allows it to heal with synthesis before Roselia attacks it.

Vs. non-specially defensive variants of Clefairy Roselia does the same thing, though it's a 2hko if the clef is at +0.

0 SpA Roselia Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 186-218 (54 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Roselia Sludge Bomb vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 122-146 (35.4 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Unfortunately specially defensive Clefairy is able to 1v1 Roselia much more consistently than the physically defensive variants, though these spreads have worse matchups with other common threats that Roselia can easily be paired with like Machoke and Grimer-Alola.

Overall, I believe that the massive amount of support Roselia provides via spikes in addition to its reliability as a Servine counter and Clefairy check push it above the other Pokemon in A+ and into S Rank.
Click to expand...
I got top 10 in the ladder using a team with offensive z-poison Roselia and works pretty well.

252+ SpA is practically able to break through 252+ SpD eviolite Clefairy with a 2HKO without using your Z-move, and is possible to break through Togetic too, with the z-move followed up by a sludge bomb guarantees a 2HKO. Not SpD invested Clefairy and Togetic will easily be 0HKO by the z-move and take a lot from sludge bomb, being unable to Softboiled/Roost stall.

Against Clefairy:

252+ SpA Roselia Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 168-200 (48.8 - 58.1%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO

Using the z destroys clef even after a calm mind, confirming a solid 2HKO

252+ SpA Roselia Acid Downpour (175 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 218-260 (63.3 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Roselia Acid Downpour (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 330-390 (95.9 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Roselia Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 254-302 (73.8 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Roselia Acid Downpour (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 494-584 (143.6 - 169.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Against Togetic:

252+ SpA Roselia Acid Downpour (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 242-288 (77 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Roselia Acid Downpour (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 336-396 (107 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO


This set runs 252 SpA to be able to hit hard, not only the fairy types, but almost every Pokémon in the tier thanks to the solid base 100 SpA. Giga Drain coverage makes able to hit ground/rock types with a super effective STAB move and get a little health back after soaking up hits. A good way to use this set is baiting the fairy types, because mostly (I can say all) Roselias are defensive and struggle to break through this walls. The speed on this build is 252 invested to have a good speed to attempt to use your z-move first when possible.

Access to spikes allows Roselia to raises her pressure along game while your opponent is switching in. Another good point is that Roselia is great against almost every single spinner in the tier, making this mon very strong.

Synthesis for reliable recovery and longevity makes Roselia a huge threat able to tank hits and heal up.

Natural cure is to Roselia be able to switch into scald with no problems getting burn or being paralyzed after a Thunderbolt

The lack of eviolite and Hp/SpD investment makes it harder to use her to checks some offensive pokémons in the meta. Roselia, in this set is kinda glass cannon but her offensive presence is great and is still able so switch in not very effective moves.

Who to run with this Roselia build:

Knock off users like Machoke, Krokorok and Pawniard to remove eviolites, opening a door to Roselia hit harder. All three have a good synergy with Roselia but Pawniard is a great option doe to the fact he can Pursuit trap Kadabra and Haunter, or even scary with a sucker punch. He is also a Defog blocker with it's Defiant ability, since Roselia has access to spikes and toxic spikes, you can abuse that advantage. Machoke can break through steel stypes like Lairon, which Roselia struggles dealing with and Roselia can switch in fairy moves to Machoke.
Krokorok is a solid Stealth Rock setter with access to Knock off support. He is also a good Scarf user, being able to Pursuit trap Kadabra and Haunter, which threatens Roselia.

Frogadier, hard countered by both fairy types mentioned (Clefairy and Togetic), has a good space when you can deal with them. Frogadier is a strong pivot, able to u-turn around and keep the momentum to bring in Roselia.

Monferno is not only a great pivot with choice scarf but a good Stealth Rock setter when running sash lead or eviolite. Monferno is a pretty strong option, Roselia can remove not only the fairy types but the water types too, like Wartotle and Marshtomp, opening a huge door for Monferno. He is also able to remove steel types to Roselia and threats Kadabra with u-turn if it's scarf.


The set:

Roselia @ Poisonium Z
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
 
Last edited:
TheSunIsADedlyLazr

TheSunIsADedlyLazr

Hey you! Yes, you! Are you tired of being blindsided by Contrary Servine? Having trouble finding that one good Pokemon that just tells it to sod off? Well let me tell you about Sap Sipper Sliggoo!

Sliggoo @ Damp Rock
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Lonely Nature
- Rain Dance
- Outrage
- Iron Tail
- Infestation

This particular set is for Rain team use, so if you're not running Rain, feel free to change out the item and first moveslot as you see fit. This does work particularly well in rain, though, as two Swift Swim users, Poliwhirl and Palpitoad, are enormous Servine Leaf Storm/Kadabra Energy Ball bait. If you click switch, you will sip the sap, practically guaranteed. You can then use Outrage to slap the shit out of whatever is in front of you, or use Iron Tail if you think a Fairy is incoming. If you're extra cheeky, you can use Infestation to lock in whatever poor sap has to deal with our favorite half-grown Blob Jesus. You're probably not going to actually trap a Servine with nothing else to use, but you might snag a fairy switch in or two that definitely won't enjoy being slapped with a boosted Iron Tail on top of Infest chip.

This set will pretty much lose to fast dragons like Gabite, and you shouldn't expect a clean sweep out of it. It's just a handy way to neutralize the threat of Contrary Servine and knock out a few other players while you're at it with the help of Sliggoo's naturally high special defense. Even Protean Frogadier can't oneshot with Ice Beam without Life Orb or such shenanigans, even with Rocks, so that's one more offensive threat you can potentially handle in the same life. Just remember that you're probably going to get Glared by Servine, so non-Rain variants might want to carry a Lum Berry to help themselves out. Besides that, Cheers!
 
vooper

vooper

Sorry for the wait, but we now have the first of many viability ranking updates! :mad: Thanks to everyone who voted on this in council/staff, we considered all the posts you all made in the thread and there were some pretty divided decisions in here!

Roselia A+ -> S
Servine A+ -> S
Grimer-Alola A -> A+
Combusken B+ -> A
Machoke A- -> A
Metang B+ -> A-
Pawniard B+ -> A-
Klang B -> B+
180659
Torracat UR -> B+
Gabite B- -> B
180658
Marshtomp UR -> B
180655
Ivysaur UR -> C+
180657
Lickitung UR -> C+
180665
Mienfoo UR -> C+
180663
Seadra UR -> C
180653
Graveler-Alola UR -> C-
180660
Grotle UR -> C-
180654
Magnemite UR -> C-
180664
Palpitoad UR -> C-
180651
Riolu UR -> C-
180716
Voltorb UR -> C-


Gloom A- -> B
Magmar B+ -> B
Dragonair C+ -> UR
Grovyle C- -> UR
Pignite C -> UR
Poliwhirl C- -> UR
Sandygast C- -> UR
Slowpoke C- -> UR


Most notably out of all of these, we have two new additions to S rank, Roselia and Servine. Both have been extremely large forces in the meta that are threats to unprepared teams! Also, Machoke is now A rank to make up for the lack of Gurdurr, and overall Dark and Steel types are much better currently. We also added in a few pokemon that were previous forgotten (oops) like Marshtomp and Torracat, which explains their high rise!

But wait, there is more! Thanks to the hard work put in by the QC Team (still accepting willing people to help out btw!), we now have analyses for all of the pokemon from rank S to B-. They are now added as clickable links on the VR by the time you read this! Check em out if you ever want to learn more about how to use a pokemon and what common sets it runs!

Please continue to post viability rankings, we consider them all!
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Simbo

Simbo

Own a doghouse?
The No Johns NFE Tournament: Round 1​

john |jän|
noun, verb, johned, johning
  • A cheap excuse for losing, missing a recovery, being hit by an attack, or any number of unfavorable events in Smash. It is a statement or action that detracts from the validity or quality of a competition (or its implied significance), irrespective of truth.
This tournament will be contested under USM NFE rules. What makes this different from any other tournament is the fact that the deadlines are short. 3 day maximum. No Johns.

Tournament Rules and Clauses
  • Sleep Clause: A player cannot put two or more different opposing Pokémon to sleep using attacks that induce sleep to opposing Pokémon.
  • Species Clause: A player cannot have two of the same Pokémon on their team. For example, a player cannot have two Koffing on his or her team.
  • Evasion Clause: A player cannot use the moves Double Team or Minimize in their Pokémon's movesets.
  • OHKO Clause: Players cannot use Horn Drill, Guillotine, Sheer Cold, or Fissure in any of their Pokémon's movesets.
  • Timer Clause: If a player exhausts the timer, he/she loses.
  • Endless Battle Clause: Any moveset on any pokemon that is capable of intentionally causing an endless battle is banned from competitive play. Check this thread for more informations.
  • Uber Clause: Players may not use any items, moves, abilities, or Pokemon that appear on our NFE Ban List. If the tiers change or new items, abilities, moves, or Pokemon become available in the middle of a round, the changes will take effect in the following round. There will be an announcement in the relevant round if this occurs. Unlikely in this scenario.
  • Deadlines will be very short. Schedule asap and via Smogon VM if possible. There will be no extensions.
  • Single elimination, best of 1.
Round 1

WMAR vs BackAtYouBro
raf vs Official Fissure
lockjaw vs jcbc
Thunder~BALLZ vs Cheese5555
RuffletMuffler vs mashumarutu
vooper vs Crystalites
DadoRossoFuoco vs Spiderz
Toy Time King vs Marination
Velvet Blood vs fxl
Quagg vs 85percent
CrazyStevy vs Aloopuriza
BloodAce0107 vs Indol
neomon vs Monsareeasy
Cheff Gordo vs RaJ.Shoot
saba1111 vs Elgino10
Thimblebony vs dom

Replays are mandatory. Posting the replay in your win post would be ideal. However, if you wish to re-use teams and do not want to reveal them, you can send the replay to me via Smogon or Discord PMs. I do plan on making all replays available at the end of the tour with usage stats.

Deadline is Wednesday 19th June 23:59 EDT (gmt -4). Round 2 will be up a few hours after the deadline.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

  • ... and 1 more.
    • Top