Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
assorted thoughts on nfe stuff. don't usually drop super strong opinion pieces like this but first for everything
please ban machoke in ORAS. the fact that it's allowed in a meta without mareanie to sacrifice a slot to and one where confusion is 50% is actually so dumb. this thing has 0 switch ins in sm and negative switchins in oras where you just knock and dpunch the quiladin to death. jeez
vullaby is also pretty trash. sans acted like it doesnt get statused but a) poison on sludge bomb, burn from scald or paralysis from serv/whatever all suck ass for this thing and #2 it gets chipped by rocks so hard, and on the off chance it can actually switch into something with rocks up against you (rare, and not a good defogger whatsoever) it's so easy to take advantage of. you can finesse with an ebuzz double or whatever so easy. i've tried it and it sucks. you switch into like haunter (barely), and uh, then what? IT GETS KNOCK THOUGH!
v few good waters in the meta rn and wartortle/prinplup are NOT one of them. should drop. marsh is super good doe and brionne is so fat and underrated both should raise.
===
serv/rose: both broken. rose is the only actual good servine "counter" as monferno gets glared and or knocked and weakened by the dark types or whatever like pawniard its supposed to switch into. if you play patient monferno and vullaby (lol.) arent really issues. getting past rose is aids tho with it.
on the other hand roselia is actually stupidly good at keeping up spikes vs the entire meta. has so many free switchin opportunities too. in this meta not a lot of mons have reliable recovery and spikes are sooo dumb. grimer annoys it though and gets a free knock so it must not be broken, plus its an offensive mon! the fact that people want clefairy literally because of the prominance of 2 mons that are just simply more broken then it is hilarious.
Hey, first NFE post, felt it was time to throw my hat in the ring on a hot topic, so here goes.
Servine
Servine is not in any way broken or ban worthy. Servine has an immense amount of checks that have no issue finding ways in, bar the fear of Glare, but I'll address that in a second. The growing attention to mons like Haunter and Vullaby to answer Servine is in my opinion a healthy adaptation for the meta. Vooper in a previous post stated how Servine does not fit the tiering policy in terms of being ban worthy, and playwise, it holds true. In the builder, checking servine simply comes down to making sure I have something that can take Knock + a single Leaf Storm, and take it down with at least a guaranteed 2hko. This usually is enough to check it multiple times, and with ServRose being as commonly complained about as I see it on forum and discord, it's far easier to handle than discussion would have you think. ServRose can be manhandled by a good selection of mons, including Vullaby, Staravia, Magmar, Monferno, Combusken, and so on. And furthermore, the aforementioned birds in Vullaby and Staravia can cleanly defog away hazards while still threatening Servine. Now, for Glare. Glare on paper is an absolutely busted move on the same levels of strength sap, but by no means is it enough to push this mon over the deep end. Glare is an amazing tool yes, but that doesn't mean we can't flip it on it's head.
lol @ mentioning staravia and combusken as checks. magmar too with rocks up that thing switches into like 1 leaf storm and HATES knock/glare. like i said earlier monferno isnt THAT good at beating servine. with rocks up none of the mons you mentioned either a) get rid of them or b) can reliably counter servine with them up besides like, uh, rose. also, friendly reminder that servine has 5, count em 5 teammates to help with its very few checks, and god forbid your alolan grimer gets countered by kadabra and dies
I present to you, Machoke. Machoke is already incredibly difficult to switch into, and using Servine's glare against it by triggering guts and becoming even harder to switch into than normal, bar the chance to full para.
literally who willingly glares a machoke? and youre acting like switching a machoke into a servine is anything but stupid. what if they either a) aren't glare or b) don't use it?
Lastly, Servine as a whole has shown a layer of good health for the metagame, giving a lot of great adaptations and discoveries, such as the many mentioned Vullaby, getting much more popular over the past couple of weeks, along with the presence of new ideas like using Machoke to abuse it's toolkit against it. As an addition, Servine encourages a large amount of team diversity, since in the long run of things, you'll have to run checks to its checks when using it, which can result in some pretty creative and unorthodox teams being created.
if by health you mean every team has to run monferno and or roselia to not lose to servine then yea u right. otherwise you lose to it. like i said vullaby sucks. one of the easiest walls to break provided your team has like 1 singular supereffective move vs it. also if anything you prove that its UNHEALTHY by forcing people to run dogshit to beat it.
Overall, Servine is a potent threat that is consistent in the metagame, but despite being very powerful, is still very capable of being taken without any form of over-prepped building.
Now, I don't think that there is any doubts about how strong Magmar really is, any mon that can max its own attack is surely strong. However, I have some heard some reservations as to why Magmar truly deserves to rise from its spot in the B tier.
B-Rank
"Reserved for Pokemon that work well in the meta or can provide valuable niches, but otherwise have large competition or flaws that make them not as viable as A-Rank Pokemon. "
I don't think there is any contest for Monferno being the best fire type in the tier; it gets access to a plethora of moves like U-Turn, Slack Off, and Stealth Rock while also being able to setup on the physical or special side with Swords Dance and Nasty Plot. Combusken, another Fire type setup sweeper, sits in A Rank due to having access to Swords Dance along with its deadly ability of Speed Boost.
The reason I mention both these mons is that they sit in A+ and A Rank respectively. One of the criteria that put Magmar in B Rank was that these mons were large competition and that it was not as viable. However, imo Magmar's ability to come in late (or in some cases even early) and just click Z Belly Drum to win the game is much stronger than either of the other 2's sweeping capabilities. Overall Monferno has much more utility and can run various sets, but Combusken is clearly weaker both physically and specially. Magmar also has a much higher speed tier, as well as offensive stats, but it also doesn't suffer defensively especially with an outstanding 85 base Special Defense.
If you want calcs on the sheer power of Magmar and why its strength outclasses that of the other fire types in the tier, here you go.
+6 252 Atk Magmar Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Mareanie: 340-400 (112.2 - 132%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252 Atk Magmar Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electabuzz: 221-260 (81.5 - 95.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252 Atk Magmar Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Frogadier: 237-279 (95.1 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Servine: 668-788 (255.9 - 301.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (think that one was obvious but its still nutty)
+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Machoke: 352-415 (96.7 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
With cancerous hazards (or really just the slightest kind of support) Magmar can come in and sweep games. Its form of setup is so reliable as it sets up on many mons that outspeed it and can also setup on slower mons like Clefairy, Servine (if Glares then spam Mach Punch) and Roselia.
8 SpA Roselia Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magmar: 112-133 (41.3 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Overall I personally think Magmar is better than Combusken which is sitting in A tier (though iirc it was supposed to drop and nobody got around to it) but really I would be fine with it at least starting to rise, its Physical setup sweeper set is just so amazing right now as well as being able to run niche special similar to Electabuzz (no Volt Switch hurt though) and having one of the highest speed stats in the tier makes this mon a force to be reckoned with. Give this mon a home in B+ or even A-.
It is time to get some nominations done. In this post I will focus on SM NFE but, hopefully, next week I will do the same with ORAS NFE.
Agree with:
Whirlipede: C+ to B-/B
Great typing and Spikes are really useful in this tier (although it is totally outclassed in this aspect by Roselia). With Eviolite is one of the Pokémon in the tier that can stop Machoke beyond Clefairy and Roselia. It can tank some attacks from Servine beyond threating it. However, with no way to recover (over Rest or Wish passing) and rocks weakness its longevity is shorter than one could need for these top ranked Pokémon.
Vibrava: C to C+
A great defogger + U-turn user. Levitate and ground type makes it an electric + ground immune Pokémon and highly resilient for hazards (defogging easily). It can stop Volt-Switchers although it can be scared for HP Ice (many Electabuzz are currently using HP Grass for Marshtomp though).
Vullaby: C+ to B-
Ground immune and a great tank. One of the best defoggers of the tier and it can spam Knock Off easily. It is a check for Servine (always useful) and in stall it is one of the best Pokémon to phaze boosting users.
Mudbray: C+ to B-
Having a way to set up rocks and stopping Volt-Switchers is always useful. Moreover, having a Pokémon that tanks many of the physical threats of the tier (at least some attacks) is just what any team needs.
Marshtomp: B to B+/A-
I am not completely sure about B+/A- but Marshtomp physical bulk, utility as rocker and phazer using Yawn makes it one of the best Pokémon right now to add in a balanced team with Roselia as spiker.
Cranidos: UR to C
Nothing to say beyond watching what Rampardos do in ZU. I think no other Pokémon can do practically the same as Cranidos but its speed is what it makes not completely viable in NFE. In order to take beyond Tangela needs some special investment trying to hit Blizzards (but then making it a less dangerous threat).
Prinplup: A- to B+
Prinplup is like Marshtomp but with no phazing and electric immunity and a bit less bulky. However, having Defog in the same Pokémon that can set up rocks is always great.
Machoke: A to A+
It is easy to fit Machoke in practically any team due to its capability as wallbreaker and Knock Off spammer. Close Combat's Machoke is an easy click when many of the opposite's Pokémon are eviolite knocked off or no Ghost Pokémon are present in the opponent's team.
Clefairy: S to A+
I am a big fan to the argument that Clefairy is not dropping but leaving the S spot to the two most important and influential Pokémon in the tier at the moment. Just that. Clefairy's viability has more or less kept there.
Dusclops: B+ to B
In a tier in which Knock Off is a must Dusclops will always have big problems. This drop is just a reflect of its reduction in usage during this NFEPL and last tours.
Gloom: B to C
Oh, a great Plant and Poison Pokémon. It is a shame that there are no other Pokémon in the tier with the same typing and much more utility... Oh WAIT!
Salandit: C to UR
Do you want a fire Pokémon? Use Magmar, Busk, Monferno... Do you want a Poison one? Use Haunter, offensive Roselia... Do you want to Toxic any opponent's Pokémon as much as you can? Use T-Spikes on Mareanie/Roselia.
Spritzee: C to UR Simbo explained it completely fine. GG Ivan.
Yanma: C to UR
Where is Whirlipede? Nothing to say honourable.
Disagree with:
Combusken: A to A- (Stays A or go to A+)
Combusken is easily coupled to Servine (like Monferno) but one thing that it does over Monferno is Z-Electrium with SD and Speed Boost being a great threat during mid/late-game. I am a BIG fan of SerBusk with hazard stacking teams. I would leave Busk in that spot for sure. Monferno is really great too with priority and NP/SD usage but depending on the set has a big bad time against Mareanie and its speed (due to ability) makes it not as good as Busk in some match-ups.
Tentacool: UR to B
Completely agree with Simbo for this nomination. However, due to its capability to soak TSpikes + Rapid Spin and helping against Roselia I would say that maybe a C niche it could have but no way B rank.
Jigglypuff: UR to C-
Jiggly has no bulk to stop anything. For sure it can set up rocks and screens but with no speed maybe it will get fainted before setting anything.
+
Rose and Serv: S to S+
As I said with Machoke and Clefairy at A+ and leaving RoServ in the S pot, no need for S+.
Poliwhirl: UR to B
As Simbo said in his post, it is totally outclassed by Croc and Marill. It could work on a rain team but I do not think is the best way to spend the Z-move over any other rain abuser.
Togetic: Moving from B+
Togetic is always the Pokémon that can do a ton of things but it is not the best in any of them. Wish passer, defogger, wallbreaker with NP+Roost and 2 attacks... In my honest opinion, I would give a try to make it rise to A-. It is true that as a NP user with some longevity (Roost) it is not as big as Monferno but its capability to be also a utility Pokémon with Defog and Wish passer or Cleric would make it a great Pokémon to fit in many teams. So... I would give it a chance to be A-
Shelgon: C+ to UR
Aight Simbo is time to spill the beans. Shelgon was a great Pokémon in old gens. It is true that, right now, it is outclassed by Sliggoo or Fraxure as a physical threat. Its only niche is Wish passer utility in stall or bulky teams. However, you can play a mind-gaming and CroTomb with DD and still do some great damage. I do not think it deserves being UR but maybe a C would be sufficient.
Sliggoo: A to B
In my opinion, a Pokémon that can stop both Servine and Roselia and it can be a late game sweeper after Clefa and some steels are gone do not deserve going to B so fast. I think it deserves a drop (A-).
About Magmar's post above ... I think is really interesting and I do not want to answer it superficially. However, to sum up, I would say is a really good Pokémon in some scenarios (with Pursuit trap help and hazards). In this case, Magmar is just a beast.
Hi guys, it's been a long time since I last made a post in NFE. I chat about NFE stuff from time to time and I wanted to explain why Servine should be suspected.
First of all there isn't one single person who believes that "Servine is just fine". At least I don't know such a person. For those who know me from my contributions in PU -where shit keeps dropping nonstop and everything becomes broken at some point-, I'm not a fan of the never-ending chit-chat about is-it-broke-or-not stuff. Almost everyone knows servine is an issue, and the debate has been going on for too long now, so let's just have it suspected, after the NFEPL though, because all NFE replays will be a very useful database to help voters decide objectively on the issue. Here's my viewpoint, it's not long to read at all, and I hope it's clear enough to justify its suspect.
Servine
Servine @ Eviolite
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe or 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Glare
Here are my favorite sets:
-max speed is optimal imo because monferno is fairly common and... servine speed ties are nothing to laugh at. Defog is a move I dismiss a lot simply because Servine is a killing machine, why waste time defogging with it and giving evasion boosts to other servines? Basically, you knock its checks early game, then come back later and kill everything with Leafstorm and use HP fire vs Roselia/servine. Fire helps versus Metang and pawniard if they are healthy, slight bonus.
-Max SpA is excellent imo because servine's destructive capabilities rely on catching checks on the switch with leafstorm, outspeed them and KO them with the second hit, or just OHKOing them if they are sent after a KO. Being stronger and able to KO or 2HKO opponents allows it to remain healthy, whereas being bulkier may lead to failed 2HKos and being worn down. But really, the spread is up to you, Servine always does servine things no matter its EVs.
Servine in SM NFE Servine has no reliable counterplay (everything get's knocked or glared), is too fast, has access to the best move in the tier: knock off, is impossible to properly revenge kill (too bulky), and has an almost null opportunity cost.
The closest thing to Servine is Machoke imo, which is ridiculously splashable, breaks everything without any thinking and is almost impossible to KO. But it's slow, is forced out after lowering its own defenses with closecombat. Servine just has too much going for it, and if you feel smart using Sliggoo or sapsipper marill, you are just proving the ban viewpoint even more.
Counterplay
Viable, common and good counterplay to servine consists in Grimer-A and roselia. That's all. Everything else doesn't stand a chance versus Servine after their eviolite has been knocked. At best you force it out with a Frogadier Icebeam or a Haunter Sludge wave: make sure servine is in Ko range though.
Let's now examine Grimer and rose: Grimer has no recovery and needs Gunkshot to actually put servine very low (80% accuracy+paralysis from glare might mean grimer will just die without doing anything). Roselia gets trapped by the ever-so-common grimers that share great synergy with servine, so calling it a Servine stop isn't true when you know how good and common grimer is in NFE.
The reward for using Servine Also note that even if servine doesn't sweep, it will leave its checks heavily crippled and pave the way for any of the top-ranked mons to sweep and vice-versa : Electabuzz loves evio-knocked roselias so that psychic easily knocks it out, does massive damage to grimers with voltswitch and quickly becomes unstoppable; haunter can take down weakened roses and grimers with a Z-move or LO boosted moves. You can also just use combos like Destiny bond haunter/counter kadabra+servine which just make servine more stupid. Even roselia+servine isn't bad, since most teams don't have a spikes remover and use the same checks for both servine and rose, so spikes+leafstorm eventually runs through teams.
In conclusion, Servine is a 100% rewarding pokémon, whether it sweeps or paves the way for an easy endgame. Using Grimer-A or Roselia is a must-have, having your own Servine a great idea, and having faster stuff too.
Suspect Servine as soon as NFEPL is over please.
P.S.:
-Drop Clefairy. I sincerely do not understand what people like about it, it's just too weak, gives free setup opportunities to servine (yeah, even with calmmind), and struggles so much vs topranked mons like electabuzz, haunter, grimer, machoke, as well as metang. It checks stuff and is immune to spikes, but being so immensely pressured by the top breakers (servine and machoke) is a massive liability, all the more so as it is easily replaced as a rocks setter by Metang, Monferno or Marshtomp which all actually do something good for the team, respectively outspeeding+hitting machoke hard, preventing Servine from switching in, blocking voltswitch+checking firefightings.
Ok so after ugh... *checks how many weeks happened* 3 weeks of NFEPL i'm going to give my thoughts all around and i'm going to make some nominations at the end.
SM NFE
I played, watched and builded for this tier and i can say the meta is super centralized, hazard stack is everywhere, and there aren't many good removers other than staravia, then we have machoke who has increased his usage a good amount of time, not to montion san bervine who makes you run atleast 3-4 mons to check it offensively and defensively. With this said, the meta has come to a point where to me being creative means you need to fish for a good matchup. But not everything is "bad", i would like to point on some mons that have called my attention.
•
Frogadier - Frogadier lacks the power to break through teams, it mainly being used as scarfer kinda sucks and even then bulky grasses/waters exist and are a pain for him, rn the main reason to use the frog is if you want a good fast volturn. LO set is to hard to fit into a team rn since it just gets chipped easily.
•
Clefairy - Clefairy is one of those mons that in paper puts in a lot of work but then does pretty much nothing. As weeks pass, i find clef more and more passive with grimer-A and roselia everywhere it pretty much does nothing, not to mention that it only rlly "switches" into fighting types and most of them can easily go through clef, steel types such as metang, pawn or klang are there and colpletely wall clef unless flamethrower and even then they can live one min, haunter being on the rise doesn't help either.
•
Kadabra,
Servine,
Haunter (or KSH) - the core this 3 pokemons make is bordeline broken, they just cover perfectly the lacks of the others and overwhelm their checks (especially grimer-A) perfectly. This core makes the team be very specific and classed but it puts in a lot of work.
•
Duosion - ppl seems to have forgot about the cell (and i can't blame them) this meta really sucks for him, it lacks the speed to sweep with the double attack set, and double dance with tspikes support is almost impossible to make it work, grimer-A, krokorok and a meta where instant power is more than apreciated sucks for this mon.
•
Quilladin - quilladin is a pretty good mon for the actual metagame, it can wall machoke, roselia and servine, (the top 3 mons rn) while also give the team a powerful spikes setter.
•
Staravia - staravia has got mad usage as of lately, his ability to wall serv, give hazard control and act as a good pivot, not to mention that with his scarf set can revenge kill almost every offensive threat makes this mon super good.
•
Torracat - torracat is hugely slept on in my opinion, we are living on a grass meta where the only fire resist are mareanie and marshtomp (usually), the scarf set is super good, amazing pivot, and a pretty good cleaner at late game, and the SD set can pretty much sweep entire teams at one glance thanks to the natural speed that torracat has and the nuke on the Z move.
•
Hakamo-o - i'm almost done with sm, but i needed to talk about this mon, hakamo-o is AMAZING rn, with just one DD and 1 layer of spike + sr it can easily claim that gg, it's typing make it hard to revenge kill, and the moveset and fantastic stats makes of this mon a fearsome opponent.
•
Shelmet - And the last mon i want to talk of is shelmet, this little guy, is going under the radar, it not only has a good bulk but it also has access to both type of spikes which is pretty good, the typing and having access to recover makes it a pretty good wall vs a lot of the common breakers/sweepers of the current metagame.
This is the set i've been using:
252+ Atk Machoke Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelmet: 52-62 (17.1 - 20.4%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Servine Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Shelmet: 60-72 (19.8 - 23.7%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Frogadier Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Shelmet: 126-148 (41.5 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
To resume, and after this brief talk, let me do the nominations:
Frogadier from A+ > A
Clefairy from S > A+
Kadabra and haunter to top A+ and Servine (San Bervine) to top of S
Duosion from A- to B+
Quilladin from B+ to A-
Staravia from B+ to A
Torracat from B+ to A-
Hakamo-o from B to A-
Shelmet from UR to C
Another nominations that have been done already and i support:
Prinplup from A- to B+/B
Vullaby to B
Marshtomp to B+
Sliggo to B
Shelgon to UR
mudbray to B-
Cranidos: UR to C
Dusclops: B+ to B
Gloom: B to C
Salandit: C to UR
Spritzee: C to UR
Yanma: C to UR
SM NFE UBERS
This will be short cuz i've been typing for like 30 minutes at least and i'm bored and tired but i want to say that from my experience this tier isn't as bad as ppl make it look (same as regular ubers) it's fun to play atleast to me and altho i know that from an spectator view it may not be wonderful i like to play and build for it, and there are a lot of unexplored sets and team options to be discovered.
Hope you guys enjoy your reading and remember san bervine so we can go to the church of man bachoke
Edit:
A servine smackdown happened yesterday so as a recap and for everyone that may be interested on it feel free to check it, s/o to -Voltage- for recording it.
In light of NFEPL 3 and playtesting, the ORAS NFE Council has decided it will hold a council suspect for Machoke. The process for this suspect will be a council vote plus 1 or 3 people picked for a rotating council, where they vote on Machoke and then dip. The reasoning for this is that the tier is too new to do any form of suspect tour-based reqs for. The 1 or 3 people picked will be decided by the council, based on discussion here and general involvement in the ORAS NFE tier. Right now, the plan is to leave a week/week and a half for discussion and to pick rotating council then vote on Machoke before NFEPL 3 playoffs. However, if there is a reasonable amount of opposition to this, then we can wait til after NFEPL 3 to vote. It will be a simple majority (>50% or 4/7 or 5/9 min) vote needed to ban Machoke.
ORAS Machoke and the Tiering Policy Reasons for its suspect
Uncompetitive
Uncompetitive - elements that reduce the effect of player choice / interaction on the end result to an extreme degree, such that "more skillful play" is almost always rendered irrelevant.
This can be matchup related; think the determination that Baton Pass took the battling skill aspect out of the player's hands and made it overwhelmingly a team matchup issue, where even the best moves made each time by a standard team often were not enough.
This can be external factors; think Endless Battle Clause, where the determining factor became internet connection over playing skill.
Machoke does not apply to either of these bullet point aspects of uncompetitive.
This can be probability management issues; think OHKOs, evasion, or Moody, all of which turned the battle from emphasizing battling skill to emphasizing the result of the RNG more often than not.
This is where Dynamic Punch and Confusion comes in. In generation 6, Confusion has a 50% chance to hit yourself and a random chance of breaking out of confusion in 1-4 turns. With a combination of very good bulk, great offensive capabilities and access to Knock Off and Confusion, Machoke has either a coinflip's or two coinflips chance of breaking through any defensive counterplay. Unlike paralysis, Confusion is not permanent and can be removed by switching out. However, unlike Thunder Wave or Glare, Machoke's confusion move is also a 150 BP with STAB attack coming off of 328 attack, which makes it far harder to play around and try to manage probabilities. This odds battle is heavily in favour of the Machoke user. It does render skillful play irrelevant 50% of the time.
Broken
Broken - elements that are too good relative to the rest of the metagame such that "more skillful play" is almost always rendered irrelevant.
These aren't necessarily completely uncompetitive because they don't take the determining factor out of the player's hands; both can use these elements and both probably have a fair chance to win. They are broken because they almost dictate / require usage, and a standard team without one of them facing a standard team with one of them would be at a drastic disadvantage.
Machoke does almost dictate usage in ORAS NFE, it is far too good relative to everything else to not use. There's almost zero scenarios where slapping a Machoke on any team provides no benefit.
These also include elements whose only counters or checks are extraordinarily niche Pokemon that would put the team at a large disadvantage elsewhere.
I'm gonna go into a lot more detail on this point than any others. This long point will also cover some meta arguments too. The biggest issue with defensive Machoke counterplay in ORAS NFE is three-fold.
1) No defensive counterplay and switchins are reliable because of Dynamic Punch and 50% confusion. If you switch into it, there's a 50% chance the Machoke can stay in and attempt to exploit confusion or, if it does switch, there's a 50% chance you lose all momentum and either can't exploit that turn or lose your healing turn and potentially lose your ability to check Machoke later in the game. Confusion chance is far too high to make defensive counterplay reliable.
2) The number of viable defensive 'checks/counters' for Machoke is much lower than in SM for two reasons. One is that some Pokemon or their main niche was outright lost in ORAS (Servine, Mareanie, Strength Sap on Gloom, Mudbray etc) and, in order to check Machoke, you have to max max, which means damage wise you do very little to Machoke in return, which lets it fish for Confusion hax more easily. If you decide to slap Toxic on these defensive mons and you get Guts Machoke instead, again you boost it.
3) The loss of Mareanie opens up Machoke's fourth moveslot on both CC and Dpunch sets to give it far more versatility than it has in SM. Machoke does not need Earthquake in ORAS. Fight, Dark and Steel coverage are all it needs. This frees up the 4th moveslot and lets it run BU in order to muscle past defensive checks, Bullet Punch to weaken amd revenge kill faster weakened threats, Ice Punch, Power-Up-Punch to boost and exploit Confusion, you could even run Encore to lock slower setup Pokemon into their boosting attacks or even CC on No Guard in case you run out of Dpunch PP or need the extra 30BP for a KO. It's far more troublesome in ORAS than in SM to deal with.
Defensive Counterplay
A list of defensive Machoke checks/counters that I could compile in ORAS are:
Note: All Choke calcs are fast choke. Bulky choke hits just as hard but takes less damage in return.
1) Quilladin
Assuming it switches into Knock or Dpunch
252+ Atk Machoke Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 88 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Quilladin: 49-58 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
Possible damage amounts: (49, 49, 50, 51, 51, 52, 52, 53, 53, 54, 55, 55, 56, 56, 57, 58)
Even if its fast bulky Quil, one Knock puts Choke into prime fishing position, especially if it has PuP, Ice Punch or Bulk Up. At best, Quil can hope to stall pp and not get confed or do this:
Both Quil and Hippo do have Phazing to deal with BU Dpunch Choke. However, if they are able to get a Whirlwind off on boosted Choke, they will most likely not have enough HP to continue checking Choke, but Choke leaves unscathed.
3) Staravia - A reasonably good first time switchin. If Feather Dance and in general, its far better than Quil and Hippo, but likewise its not reliable because of Roost and Dpunch
-1 252+ Atk Machoke Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 47-56 (14.9 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO
Possible damage amounts: (47, 48, 48, 49, 49, 50, 50, 51, 52, 52, 53, 53, 54, 54, 55, 56)
However, the issue lies with Roost, Dpunch and Star in general. As a bird type which is also the Fogger for teams, it will most likely be switching into Rocks. On top of that, if it switches into Choke, its already at 50%. On top of hoping you don't get Confed, you also have to get a 50/50 right, which is heavily in the Choke users favour since its something they do not need to risk. If you roost and they Dpunch, you take significant damage. If you get confed, you die or lose the ability to heal and switch into choke again, all momentum lost.
In return, star can do this, good damage, assuming your opponent and the game lets you get it off
4) Vullaby - Worse Star when it comes to the Machoke MU, no intimidate and weaker
5) Tangela - Thanks to Regenerator, Tangela is probably the best defensive Choke check. It is the most resistant to Confusion because of Regen, and even though it doesnt directly threaten Choke with damage unless Leaf Storm, both Sleep Powder and Leech Seed are annoying enough as utility moves to force Choke out, assuming it gets it off. However, I think Tangela so far is the only mon I would call a defensive Machoke switchin and check.
6) Shelgon - Like almost everything else, the Wish, Protect max max Shelgon set similarly just sits there and waits to get Confed or Bulked on. Shels even worse cause it needs two turn healing, more opportunities for Conf and BU.
252+ Atk Machoke Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 47-56 (14 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO
Possible damage amounts: (47, 48, 48, 49, 49, 50, 50, 51, 52, 52, 53, 53, 54, 54, 55, 56)
252+ Atk Machoke Dynamic Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shelgon: 109-129 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 98% chance to 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (109, 109, 111, 112, 114, 115, 117, 118, 118, 120, 121, 123, 124, 126, 127, 129)
7) Whirlipede - Infestation Whirl is a Machoke check. Machoke needs very good Dpunch luck to beat Whirl, thanks to its x4 Fight Resist, high weight to lower Heavy Slam BP and Infestation. However, you could argue that using Whirl as a defensive Choke check and switch in is an example of a very niche check.
If there's any I missed, lmk
Mid TL.DR Only two semi-consistent defensive choke checks are Tangela and Whirlipede
Offensive Counterplay
A lack of defensive counterplay can be to some extent excused if the offensive counterplay is significantly large and consistent. However, with ORAS Choke, that just isn't the case. A lack of Z-Moves is a massive buff for Choke. Luring it with the likes of SD Steelium Pawn, Fairium Haunter or Missy, Psychium Buzz etc is not an option and likewise, chunking and chipping it hard with Z move users like Monferno, Combusken, Frog, Frax etc to limit it later in the game is not an option here. Offense lost its best way of dealing with Choke.
I'll do a similar list though, just for completeness' sake.
Note: All calcs here assume Bulky Choke, damage would be higher to fast choke but, from a building perspective, both have to be taken into account.
1) Electabuzz - Must be Evio in order to be a Machoke Check 50% of the time, no other set is a check.
Specs buzz is not a check
252 SpA Choice Specs Electabuzz Psychic vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Machoke: 238-282 (67.4 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (238, 242, 244, 248, 250, 252, 256, 258, 262, 264, 266, 270, 272, 276, 278, 282)
252 SpA Choice Specs Electabuzz Thunderbolt vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Machoke: 178-211 (50.4 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (178, 181, 183, 186, 187, 189, 192, 193, 196, 198, 199, 202, 204, 207, 208, 211)
252+ Atk Machoke Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electabuzz: 282-333 (104 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (282, 285, 289, 292, 295, 298, 303, 306, 309, 312, 315, 319, 322, 325, 328, 333)
2) Kadabra - Needs LO, Ebelt, or Specs to be a check from full, most common Sashset is not a check to BP Choke
252 SpA Kadabra Psychic vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Machoke: 282-332 (79.8 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (282, 284, 288, 290, 294, 296, 302, 306, 308, 312, 314, 318, 320, 324, 326, 332)
3) Duosion - Is a Machoke check unless its the super rare Encore.
4) Metang - 190 Speed, max attack, Zen Headbutt is about 45-50ish% of the time a Machoke check. However, Metang can die to Dpunch into Confusion hit into Knock. Any offensive check slower than choke is not reliable so it has to be 190 speed.
252+ Atk Metang Zen Headbutt vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Machoke: 180-212 (50.9 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (180, 182, 182, 186, 188, 188, 192, 194, 198, 198, 200, 204, 204, 206, 210, 212)
5) Staravia - Banded is a check, Scarf is almost but basically a check, the amount of chip needed to secure the OHKO isn't that large, but this calc should highlight how ridiculous Choke's defensive capabilities are on top of its ridiculous offensive capabilities and Dpunch.
TL.DR The number of reliable defensive Choke checks that have switchin potential is a grand 2 and one is very niche. Likewise, the offensive counterplay is slightly larger but still quite limited, especially considering all the If statements attached to these checks because of the nature of Dpunch and 50% confusion.
I'm not going to bother with unhealthy since I believe there's already a lot to be said about Choke from the Uncompetitive and Broken aspects. There's no real need to go to unhealthy. As a Pokemon, Dpunch and Chokes naturally good attack and bulk does reduce both battling and teambuilding skill to an undesirable and unfair degree, mostly due to Dpunch and the ridiculousness of coinflip confusions coming off big Choke.
Any opinions on ORAS Machoke are welcome. Feel free to post em.
WMAR has not been outbid in 12 hours, London and the Bayern Munchlax get WMAR for 3k.
Duskfall98 has not been outbid in 12 hours, vooper and The Sliggoons get Duskfall98 for 3k.
OminousDraco has not been outbid in 12 hours, neomon and the Monferno Mafia get OminousDraco for 11.5k.
Ayedan has not been outbid in 12 hours, TBZ (Banana Spritzee) and the Traitorous Trumbeaks get ayedan for 5k.
Broken Phobias has not been outbid in 12 hours, BloodAce and the Ferocious Ferroseeds get BP for 6.5k.
Mirbro has not been outbid in 12 hours, London and the Bayern Munchlax get Mirbro for 5.5k.
Prankin has not been outbid in 12 hours, BloodAce and the Ferocious Ferroseeds get Prankin for 3.5k.
MK007 has not been outbid in 12 hours, Cheryl and the Ravenous Roselias get MK007 for 5k.
Sir Outback has not been outbid in 12 hours, TBZ (Banana Spritzee) and the Traitorous Trumbeaks get Outback for 6k.
Cheryl and the Ravenous Roselias get Mechsteelix for 4.5k.
Week 3 Trades and other Admin
Admin: The Ferocious Ferroseeds have transferred 2.5k credits to the Ravenous Roselias for free.
Admin: The Ferocious Ferroseeds have traded Prankin for MechSteelix from the Ravenous Roselias.
Admin: Bloodace was subbed in for Kaif from the Ferocious Ferroseeds.
Admin: A double substitution was forced for the game between vooper of the Sliggoons and Spitfire Arcanine from the Monferno Mafia because schedules did not line up well at all. Eli (Nuxl) was subbed in over vooper and neomon for Spitfire Arcanine.
Admin: Boulicrok was subbed in for neomon from the Monferno Mafia.
Note: ORAS NFE and Ubers NFE Usage Stats will be compiled at the end of the tour.
ALL MATCH REPLAYS SHOULD BE POSTED IN THE NFE DISCORD IN #replays-channel. PLEASE DO NOT POST REPLAYS HERE.
MANAGERS HAVE TIL FRIDAY 9TH AUGUST MIDNIGHT GMT -4 TO TRADE. NO TRADES WILL BE ALLOWED AFTER THIS DATE.
The document will be updated during the week with player records, standings, replays etc.
WEEK 4 Matchups
Bayern Munchlax (2) VS Monferno Mafia (6)
SM NFE Bo3: Frisoeva vs PD
SM NFE: Plas vs Ninjadog13
SM NFE: Cam vs Elgino
SM NFE: Trace vs Thiago Nunes
SM NFE: Blinkboy vs Toy Time King
SM NFE: Mirbro vs Spitfire Arcanine
ORAS NFE: Official Fissure vs 85percent
NFE Ubers: SMB vs CrazyStevyEnzoLapras
Ferocious Ferroseeds (2) VS The Sliggoons (6)
SM NFE Bo3: xHys vs quagsgone
SM NFE: DadoRossoFuoco vs LockjawJho
SM NFE: Broken Phobias vs Groot
SM NFE: Huston vs martha
SM NFE: MechSteelix vs eli (Nuxl)
SM NFE: PhantomHuriousBloodace vs jcbc
ORAS NFE: SBPC vs Crystalites
NFE Ubers: Monsareeasy vs velvet blood
Ravenous Roselias (4) vs Traitorous Trumbeaks (3)
SM NFE Bo3: dom vs ayedan
SM NFE: Ktutverde vs hawkie
SM NFE: Voltage vs free my man tele
SM NFE: againa vs ShuckleDeath Lucario1582
SM NFE: taranteeenoCheryl vs Xayah TheJ3estPenguin
SM NFE: Prankin vs Sir Outback
ORAS NFE: Miyami vs DanDaMan99
NFE Ubers: Marjane vs TBZ (Banana Spritzee)
Deadline is midnight Sunday August 11th GMT -4.
Manager Week 5 Lineup Deadline is midnight Saturday August 10th GMT -4
Since this is a topic of interest Imma just go through the entire VR and give my opinions on each mon in each rank, long post incoming btw:
Cheryl's Big Post of VR Opinions According to Her
S-Rank:
Clefairy: Yeah I can't lie this mon might not even be Top 5 in the meta at this point. It's bait for Servine, Roselia, tries to beat Machoke but you know it can't, and CM is so prepared for and so damn weak that it'll only sweep once in a blue moon with the best conditions possible. However, it is still Clef and that means it does provide a lot of needed support to a team and it's very versatile with what it can do so its pretty alright I guess. Drop to A+
Servine: This isn't a post talking about mons being broken so I'll just say Servine is fine in S rank.
Roselia: Spikes are incredibly broken and Rose does so damn much by blocking Servine and friends while also setting Spikes it's definitely deserving of S. I also think Specs is severely underrated and is a pretty busted breaker but I get the need to run bulky Rose with Serv's dominance in the meta. S rank
A+ Rank:
Electabuzz: Nothing much to say here, Buzz is as solid as he's always been with that speed tier, the increase of Flying type usage makes his STAB a little more scary to deal with as well. Solid A+ mon
Frogadier: I think Frog isn't nearly as crazy strong or game-defining as the other A+ mons, it's a good Scarfer but that isn't really enough for A+ imo, a little too weak as well even if it's the LO set. Drop to A
Grimer-Alola: Do I need to say anything here it's Alolan Grimer lol (btw Rest is probably pretty good with something like Heal Bell Clef or Aromatherapy Grass type) stay in A+
Haunter: incredible set versatility, a bunch of lure moves it can run and it can bluff it's sets very well, good speed tier, not many checks and Grimer isn't that hard to chip down, Haunter's lowkey a god A+ for sure
Kadabra: I'm actually not sure about where this mon should go. Focus Sash is always an amazing set because it can singlehandedly cuck any sweeper that doesn't have a multi-hit and it pairs super well with anything that hates Grimer-Alola as well. the speed tier is also amazing and it has a lot of moves it can run in the 4th slot to mix things up. My only issue is that I feel the meta is also slowly adapting to break Sash through increased use of moves like Dual Chop, Beat Up Krok, all that jazz, and every other Kadabra set (LO basically although Evio Recover is highkey CUTE) is kinda niche and hard to use. I would keep it in A+ for sure but definitely make it a DP for dropping to A in the future!
Monferno: ANNOYING MONKEY IS GOOD A+
A Rank:
Machoke: Oh boy this mon. I really really fucking hate Machoke and I think having to play around it literally having perfect coverage for everything in the tier while also hitting like a truck and tanking shit like a truck is not very fun at all. It doesn't even need to run some janky BU set, or No Guard, nah bruh Guts 4 attacks is it. The amount of usage it has in NFEPL with it being on nearly every team worth a damn should attest to how dumb it is, it's clearly Top 2 in the meta. Rise to S RANK, Choke is borked!
Mareanie: I don't really use Mareanie much but it seems pretty alright still for what it's supposed to do, I do think a lot of the mons ranked above it (Kadab, Taunt Haunter, Serv) can kinda mess with it a bunch and it's still really passive and it also doesn't like the rise of Ground moves... hmmm DP for a drop to A- maybe? I'll need to use it more to get a good opinion
Sliggoo: Sliggoo would be great if it wasn't so damn one-dimensional. Special would be so, so good if it didn't hit like a wet nut towel and Clef didn't stop it from doing what it wants. also Steels, also Curse sucks but also isn't bad against any team without a Fairy but what team doesn't run that omg Sliggoo IS BAD.. kinda, it has it's unique niche and I think it can definitely be used effectively but it's quite hard right now. Drop to B+, maybe B
A- Rank:
Duosion: It's stupid dangerous if your team isn't prepared for it but in this meta it's hard to get Duosion set up and going, Darks are everywhere (Pawn bois) and it's bulk without Eviolite (it's getting Knocked I'm sorry but its true) is pretty mediocre. Drop to B+ because its still scary just not as effective
Metang: I think Metang is a bit less effective than it was a few months ago but that's probably just me, it's still a great blanket check to stuff like Clef and Kadabra and can eat any hit from full, only issue is that it's a bit weak so stuff like fat Servine can take advantage despite Metang having the advantage in theory, still a good mon Stay A-
Misdreavus: Ghost typing meaning there's not many defensive checks? Check. Nasty Plot allowing it to become a super scary wallbreaker in one turn? Check. Good enough speed tier allowing it to revenge a Monferno and NOT get revenged by Serv while it's on the warpath with NP? Check. Amazing versatility with what it wants to run in Sub, Wisp + Hex for Grimer, or Destiny Bond even to cheese a kill after it's done breaking your entire team for something like Haunter to sweep? (Also good niche coverage in stuff like TBolt) Yeah, this mon is underrated af is what I'm saying. Rise to A Rank, its actually broken on Special Spam of any kind
Pawniard: like Missy, this is a very underrated mon that's been seeing more exposure as of late. Deterring Defog is always useful but honestly the sheer power of SD with it's STABs is really scary for any team to deal with especially when their Choke is inevitable chipped to death. It's lovely stuff really, also it can cheese entire games off of a Moonblast from Clef if you're lucky enough, idk it's just a really solid and threatening mon rn and it bodies Alolan Grimer too! rise to A rank
Prinplup: no reliable recovery? Check! can't touch the ServRose Grass dynasty? Check! Is a terrible Defogger in general? Check! Mediocre Rocker at best? Yeah pretty much Drop to B/B- rank
B+ Rank:
Dusclops: What does this mon even do? like you can kinda check Machoke but you have no recovery besides Pain Split or RestTalk unlike the other Machoke "checks" and bruh if CM Clops is sweeping your teams you either got haxed or your team is stall and bad. having no usage in NFEPL is the nail in the coffin for "why would I use Dusclops?" drop it, I would start with B- but honestly in this meta you could even go C+ like please someone tell me why this mon is ranked so high lol
Combusken: Okay I get that this mon isn't perfect but I feel like people expect it to be perfect and then they get mad when they realize it actually needs support in order to sweep and now it's B+, I honestly think Fire/Fighting you just cannot go wrong with and special is a pretty solid set with good firepower with Knock support for stuff like Clef. I can't speak for SD since every tier I've used it in it's disappointed me but I'd say special is solid enough in the meta as a cleaner that it could defo rise to A-, only real issue is Scarfers cucking it so I'm also fine with staying in B+
Ferroseed: I love the NFEPL Ferroseeds but the mon itself... eh??? it just seems like a do nothing mon but with the niche of getting the broken move Spikes, but there's also Rose who can take a hit from Machoke and not let Machoke in for free... drop to B rank
Fraxure: I see it as on the same level of Hakamo-o but perhaps a bit worse because it doesn't add much defensively to a team which limits setup opportunities, but still the thing is stupid powerful which is enough to demand respect and preparation through Scarf mons and such. stay in B+
Klang: NFEPL has shown that Klang , a previously rare and not sought-into mon, can actually be quite useful to a team through it's impressive bulk allowing it to pivot into stuff like Kadabra and Servine in a pinch and get it's Shift Gear action started. being a sweeper that gets past Kadabra for free is a rare luxury and it has seen success in it's NFEPL outings as well. it needs some support as some mons like Marshtomp will block it completely but it does have a lure in Magnet Rise which can allow it to go toe to toe with stuff like Metang and outright beat Gabite. overall, Klang is really solid imo but it does have enough going against it to make me say that it should stay in B+ for the time being.
Krokorok: Not much to say for Krok, it's a decent Scarfer that can clean and has the ability to wipe Kadabra completely which is great for a Scarfer, but it will always have that thorn in it's side of absolutely shit bulk and low speed compared to other Scarfers holding it back. oh and Evio SpD Rocks is kinda cute but it still has crappy bulk. Stay in B+
Munchlax: like Duosion but fatter and maybe a bit better? Munchlax has seen some use in NFEPL to mostly positive results, Curse is a great wincon to build around but it needs support definitely even if you land all the Body Slam paras in the world. B+ mon
Quilladin: I actually don't have much of an opinion on Quilladin, like it's a soft Choke check that eats Roselia and Haunter which is great but most Haunters run Acid Downpour anyway, Servine being everywhere also doesn't help when it can Defog away your Spikes and set up on you for free unless you run Roar. Very average, but good niche for B+
Staravia: now this is a mon that deserves to rise! One of the better hazard removers in the meta while also being a semi-solid Machoke set with it's Intimidate Eviolite set, Staravia, while pretty exploitable by Rocks and chip, is still a mon that provides that much-needed role compression to a team that fits this meta filled of hazard stack and broken Grasses + Choke. Scarf is also really solid because Flying STAB isn't prepared for in this meta and Star has some of the strongest Flying moves of the bunch. very solid in this meta, rise to A- rank
Togetic: this mon seems to have very divided opinions on it. on one side, it's a mon that sucks ass against the prevalent Poisons and Steels of the metagame, doesn't Defog very effectively on most Rockers, and is passive deadweight in most matches with the only niche it having is Fire Blast for Steels, or Nasty Plot. on the other side, Nasty Plot is a very underrated breaker with great coverage and the Defog set isn't soooo bad. Personally, I don't think Togetic is terrible but cmon you guys the mon just isn't that great in this meta, being weak to Rocks, losing to Machoke despite being a Flying type, stuff like Klang, Pawn getting better (yeah yeah Fire Blast but still you're getting forced out!), and stuff like Grimer-A keeping it's dominance... Togetic just isn't very useful to me but I can get it's niche, sooo drop to B rank boppity boopity
Torracat: I agree with jc's post that Torracat is a little underrated in this meta and that Scarf is a pretty great set despite it's lacking coverage. It doesn't really need the coverage when Flare Blitz does a crapton to everything that isn't a Marsh/other bulky Fire check and you can U-turn on any thing that does check, Intim is also really damn good for softening things like Machoke. I'd rise it to A- rank
B Rank:
Croconaw: as we go down the list it's becoming increasingly common for me to find mons that I really don't have experience with and Croconaw is one of them. this doesn't mean it's bad though, not in the slightest. you got a mon that can break through Grasses with Sheer Force Ice Punch, has priority in Aqua Jet, and hits pretty hard in general while being able to set up. The thing that keeps it down here though is likely because it's Sheer Force Life Orb which means it has zero bulk and it isn't very fast in general giving it few opportunities to actually do stuff outside of a niche Webs/Screens team. stay in B rank
Gabite: Ah and here's Gabite, in B rank... wait huh? Yeah nah you and I both know that Gabite is way more useful than a measly B rank, it has solid usage in NFEPL as an offensive AND bulky Rocker that functions as a neat Fire resist, has decent enough offensive pressure if it's Max Attack (Knock a Clef, EQ's doing close to half, that's nice!), and having a great speed tier being JUST above Monferno at max Speed. Choice sets are also pretty decent especially with some teams deciding to just not have a solid EQ resist meaning Gabite goes ham. please rise this to A- it's really much better than every mon in B and B+ Gabite the GOAT
Gloom: like Togetic, some people think this mon is useless dogshit, the other side thinks it's not great but not dogshit either. I'm kinda ehh on Gloom because on some teams it serves a great role at being a physically tankier Roselia that doesn't need no Spikes to survive in this world but like, it's kinda really weak too unless you're a god and run Growth, meaning it can get stalled out even by stuff like CM Clef. I'd keep it in B or drop it to B- but Gloom ain't a C mon cmon now
Hakamo-o: like I said for Fraxure, Hakamo-o is on the same level or debatably better, it definitely has untapped potential as proven by NFEPL where it has a 100% winrate (might be wrong but it's still a solid one nonetheless) and people are waking up to the fact that it has nice utility in pooping on Rose as well for free setup because of Bulletproof. only issue is that it absolutely needs support for Fairies as unlike Fraxure it's kinda weak so it wont be able to brute force through them unless you're Steelium Z which sacrifices bulk. still though, a good mon that's seeing more usage and success is a mon that's worth a raise. Rise to B+ rank
Magmar: Specs is the best Magmar set and it's actually crazy how many teams get melted by it with it's amazing coverage, Fire Blast being a nuke in general, and nobody's ready for an offensive Fire that's actually hella fast too! Belly Drum is also pretty neat I guess, but Specs alone is worth the Magmar rise. Rise to B+, could be more in the future this mon is really good
Marshtomp: yeah it's clear the meta has shifted from bad bulky Waters like Tortle/Prinplup to an actual decent one in Marshtomp. Being able to check Electrics, resist Poison is cool and all but it's overall just a really good wall for stuff like Grimer-A, Monferno, all that jazz and it's a good Rocker too with some variety moves in Yawn, Ice Punch, Curse if you're brazy and want to pressure shit with EQ, solid mon overall plz rise. Rise to A- rank
Murkrow: Murkrow has always existed as this weird hybrid of a Dark type with Flying type in NFE and while that's actually really nice on paper , in practice it's bulk is a huge thorn in it's side and it's not as powerful as you'd like it to be against the fat stuff unless you run Z-Brave Bird. Still a fast boi with anti-meta STABs so it deserves it's B ranking. stay in B rank
Tangela: Tangela sucks major ass but it's a stupid fat Grass-type meaning it checks Machoke, has Regen, and it has Knock so it can do stuff sometimes but really this mon sucks major and I mean major buttcheeks. stay in B if you want but I'm feeling B- rank on this one chief
Wartortle: it's where Prinplup should be, nothing to say about this mon. just drop Prinplup to it, if you drop Plup to B- this can go with it too although Spin/Mirror Coat is arguably worth keeping in B because its just better
B- Rank:
Eevee: no comment, just seems like a mon that does something every 20 games or so and wins you the match or it's complete deadweight. stay in B- I guess? if phazing ever becomes overly prominent then I'd UR it LOL
Lairon: Lairon would be really solid if it wasn't for relying on Head Smash/Heavy Slam a little too much when Machoke and Marshtomp/Gabite are all the rage right now. Otherwise, it checks more than you think and is really strong, but worth B- for those limitations I mentioned. B- rank
Marill: I meme about it a lot but hey Sap Sipper has untapped.. potential... Roselia blehhh… Huge Power also kinda blows imo but it's also worth it if you run Ice Punch because Aqua Jet for Ferno is nice and it can soft check Choker, oh and Magmar's a better BD user don't run BD Marill stay in B-
Rufflet: it's worth where it is, a stronger but slower Staravia that has the downside of missing one crucial move every time you use it in tournament meaning it will never truly be a consistent threat... CB is hot though I wont lie stay in B- rank
Trumbeak: I've never seen this mon used before and I can see why sadly... Bullet Seed isn't that great but Marshtomp rising in usage gives it more reason to be used ig, Knock for Metang is also nice so you can definitely run a SD breaker set and do alright, I'd keep it in B- and I'd like to see some experimentation with this mon to see if its any good, it had to get to B- somehow and it better not be from a Scarf set because that sucks compared to the other two Birds!
C+ Rank:
Fletchinder: ah time for the real shitmons.. but Imma be honest with you, Fletchinder ain't shit. as in, it's actually not that bad of a mon and it can definitely be a very viable and scary cleaner and Rkiller for stuff like Combusken and even Servine. like honestly Servine gets blocked by this if it wasn't for Glare. the thing that keeps Fletch from rising anywhere too high is the amount of support you need to provide for it to work, but the reward you can get for it in a nice defensive typing (can check Choke!) and sweeping potential with an anti-meta STAB is too good for C+, rise to B rank imo
Hippopotas: from the tour games I've seen of it, it's fat and it does it's role as a fat Ground with recovery pretty well, but it's not rising because it's a fat Ground that doesn't hit very hard. stay in C+
Ivysaur: this mon fucking sucks and Z-Celebrate is a sham but go off stay in C+ but I'd DP it for C which means it's dropping to C actually :)
Lampent: niche mon but it can cockblock a surprising amount of top level threats with Flash Fire (Scarf Torracat/Ferno have to watch their backs, Monferno in general gets eaten) and it's unique defensive typing (Sub on Clef, Sub on Rose, that's the way it goes!) and packing decent punch... Lampent's alright, just wishes it had a little more Speed to be truly great, better than C+ for sure though rise to B- Rank
Lickitung: it does it's job even though its Machoke/Ferno food I guess, it can wall a crapton of stuff and WishPass is nice, it's just that the type of teams it would prefer to be on don't exist in this meta so you'd have to run Lickitung balance which gets awkward or semi-stall which is okay... stay in C+
Mienfoo: the "it has a small niche over Machoke but if you use it over Machoke you're benched forever" mon drop to C-, really this thing does not have a niche imo, U-turn + Knock Regen is cute but then you realize it checks Pawn and thats it and then it dies because its bulk is sad, I might be a little harsh on it though but yeah its not good
Mudbray: cute mon but I don't think it's that great, it's kinda hard to switch into sometimes though and with stuff like Klang and Pawn rising up it has more of a niche than before at checking them hard rise to B- I suppose
Poipole: similar to Eevee where it can win you an entire game (PD's Week 2 game with Poipole is basically that LOL) but it isn't very consistent at doing so and needs a ton of support, I'd still keep it ranked though because it's still quite scary when it's under the right conditions and even if it cant sweep it can at least attempt to break your fat core? Plus it's fucking adorable leave Poipole alone stay C+ or drop to C
Salandit: on paper it comes into your Rose/Vine/Clef for free and takes a mon or two using the legendary Nasty Plot breaker set that has no defensive checks!!! yeah it has zero bulk whatsoever and completely loses to everything else and hasn't received noteworthy usage at all but hey it's NICE on paper!!! - 2018 NFE UR or C-, Id prefer UR
Shelgon: stall doesn't exist and DD RestTalk was bad in Gen 5 too UR
Whirlipede: it's seen some better usage recently but overall it's a pretty one-dimensional mon, I wanna see more of it before deciding on a rise, don't drop it though it has some stuff keep in C+ rank
C Rank:
Dewpider: perfect mon for this rank, it's pretty ass but it can Scald burn stuff and it's the best Web setter because it can stick around for a little while longer than say Cutiefly, would be better if Webs wasn't stunted from the beginning :( stay in C rank
Eelektrik: also a perfect mon for this rank, it has that small niche of countering Electabuzz and then doing relatively nothing for the rest of the match but it can tank a hit from say Haunter and fight back with Knock, Levitate is also cute but overall aggressively medicore mon stay in C rank
Nidorino: this thing isn't worth the trouble that goes into using it really, you want CB or a Z-move if you run Hone Claws and both are stupid frail, as in you aren't a Servine switchin so why the hell are you running Nidorino, it's also really slow like honestly this mon is just outclassed by anything else remotely offensive, don't give me the Sucker Punch excuse non-STAB Sucker is garbage LOL OH AND HUSTLE SUCKS ASS Unrank dis
Seadra: I wish Seadra was good but since you want Timid on Agility to at least function as a Monferno RKiller and outspeeding Servine, it makes the mon really really weak as in Ice Beam ain't 2HKOing Grasses that have functional SpD weak... it's also pretty frail unless you run Evio which is a fine item for it I suppose but Waterium Z is really nice for nuking stuff like Clef and Machoke, I'm biased so I'd drop it to C- but I wouldn't be against an UR as it doesnt do much and it hasnt gotten results at all
Spritzee: bro are you being serious with me UR thisLOL
Vibrava: Vibrava is heavily flawed but it's received some usage because well, it's one of our few hazard removers and it has access to U-turn as well as Roost giving it some nice niches over Gabite, it's passive but it does it's job well and it's way worth the rise considering it's a Defogger that doesn't give a damn about hazards rise to B-, some users would say B but I'd keep it chill and say B- for now, mon's pretty neat though
Vullaby: another neat Defogger that's popped up more recently, and with a burst of usage in the first few weeks of NFEPL, it's Vullaby! This mon has kinda taken the building meta by storm because we realized it can check a lot of stuff and Defog at the same time while also providing Knock pressure and it fits into a decent amount of teams. However, despite all the obvious good stuff that Vullaby has, it's horrendously passive and gets chipped really easily (a shared weakness among all Flying-type Defoggers) due to being weak to Rocks so it can be a momentum sink, either way its way better than C loool rise to B- with Vibrava, but could also be argued as a DP for B rank along with Togetic, or put them all together?
Weepinbell: Sun seems like a pretty mediocre playstyle due to Weepinbell being really frail even though it's pretty strong, it hasn't gotten NFEPL usage either but Imma just keep it here just in case some young Sun prodigy decides to body the meta with this playstyle stay in C rank
Yanma: we discussed it a lot in NFE room and Discord and even though Yanma's access to Speed Boost and Flying STAB seems appealing, it's weak as dogshit, 4x weak to Rocks without half as much utility that Fletch brings to the table, and its hard to bring it in on anything that's not named Serv (oh wait Glare :x) not worth the effort, I'd UR it
C- Rank:
Dartrix: this thing can belong in here, Grass/Flying is a unique and actually great offensive typing for this meta outside of being resisted by Steels and it has solid setup opportunities from stuff like Servine and Gabite (unless it has Toxic or is something like CB), Dartrix also has alright bulk allowing it to tank some hits and dish out a lot of damage, I'd run SD + Roost on it it seems actually alright and could be a candidate for a rise??? Prime issues are that it's slow as shit but you can creep stuff like Rose so it isn't quite as bad, probably shit in practice but so is every C mon keep in C- but definitely DP it for a rise to C I think it has a shot
Graveler-Alola: when people realize it only traps Klang and maybe Pawn effectively when they use it in battle and it only has a role every few games and is walled by Machoke and Servine… this mon is garbo on garbo UR, but meh maybe keep if you wanna be pussies
Grotle: it's a Grass-type that gets Stealth Rock! that's it that's it. UR
Magnemite: oh nah now that people know I wanna unrank Graveler-A they'll wanna unrank my boi Magnets too! now let me tell you that not only can Magnemite trap Metang (Magnet Rise USE IT), Klang, AND Pawniard (oh and Ferro that exists but Graveler gets Fire Punch) if you're healthy enough while maintaining being a good check to bulky Waters not named Marshtomp (which is a major blow to both this and Graveler) with a solid STAB combination that only gets jammed by the really bulky stuff (sadly Servine jams it :(), yeah Magnemite can stay AND I WILL DIE BY THIS KEEP MAGNEMITE RANKED MAGNET RISE TBOLT FLASH CANNON HP FIRE POGGERS
Palpitoad: its a less bulky Marshtomp… that gets Water Absorb. actually more useful than Grotle but don't use it on Rain because that's asking to be walled by Servine and Rain is bad anyways just run bulky Water Absorb its cute ig keep in C- rank
Riolu: oh my god... I've written mini-analyses speaking my opinion about over 50 mons for this damn ranking, they get worse and worse and now there's fucking Riolu in my fucking NFE Viability Ranking please oh god my brain cells are melting what's the fucking argument for this frail ass slow ass piece of shit that's trashy ability gets jammed by fucking PAWNIARD you're killing me, Unrank this
Voltorb: I would rather run Servine for Dual Screens but I can actually see the argument for this so I guess it can stay, Dual Screens is meh but not horribad keep in C-
AND NOW FOR THE UNRANKED NOMS SOMEONE HELP ME
Shelmet: It has a very small but cute little niche of being a Fighting check, Spiker with recovery, and a passive pile of dookie in one mon, overall I feel like it gets taken advantage of by quite a lot of mons by virtue of being a Bug type (Bird, Ferno, Fire type in general food), but I can't deny that it can potentially be of use for a team for it's unique traits and its a teensy bit better than the stuff I want unranked I suppose rank it in C-
Amaura: so Miyami tested this thing and while it has a nice Flying resist and the rare but dangerously powerful Ice STAB, along with good coverage for it's checks, it's unfortunately a little too slow with a shitty defensive typing in general so it's hard to get in and even then there are better breakers that dont require as much work. for an Ice type it isn't bad though. keep it UR but one of the better ones
Vanillish: same as Amaura but without Flying resist but with Weak Armor, however Specs isn't that strong because it lacks Snow Warning Blizzard (GameFreak is an idiot for giving it only to Vanilliluxe) and it has worse covverage too, Autotomize isnt strong enough its a bad mon stay UR
Cranidos: a little overhyped imo for how frail it is but I can't deny that it has some impressive power with amazing coverage to cover the walls of this meta, I'd slot it in as a C ranker rank it in C!!!
Tentacool: very cool mon (haha get ithahahaahahahahahahahaha) but yeah it has a really nice niche of being a Water spinner that doesnt completely shit it's insides out against Roselia and having Knock Off is hype as well, good with cleric support rank it in like B-, maybe B but idk yet
Poliwhirl: it's better than Marill because it can outspeed Servine and murder it after a Belly Drum and honestly it's hard enough to get a BD with Magmar as it is with this in the long run, Magmar's far better imo because of Mach but this is worth ranking rank it at C/C+ rank
Jigglypuff: WHO NOMMED THIS I WANNA KNOW WHO NOWWWW... oh and yeah keep it UR
Mime Jr.: I've seen some cute stuff with this mon but I'm not entirely knowledgable of it so I have no opinion, sad to see its a better Kirlia though lol No Opinion, leaning toward C-?
Natu: this wasnt nommed but honestly I think Natu is a fair point of discussion. We all know it's draw is Magic Bounce and that it's major flaws are the weaknesses to Pursuit and it's lackluster bulk all around which impede it from getting ranked higher than C- but I think in this hazard stack meta, anything that can keep hazards from your side of the field counts as something that can be worth using, and Natu isnt even THAT bad compared to some of the shit Im talking about. rank it at C- imo, its not great but its something
And so, that ends Cheryl's trip of insanity as I've now talked about every single mon on this damn VR and some more, I think this VR with my suggested changes would look pretty good and accurate of the current meta, also Im sorry if you think the formatting was ugly but if you really think I was C/Ping some sprite of like 70 mons you're crazy... also idk how much words are in this post but either way
IM THE FUCKING CORPORAL LEVI OF THE NFE FORUM BITCHES
- Until next time I go crazy and have to make a better VR than the current one
Can we get some hype up in here we are now a challengeable on PS and i couldnt be more proud. I love this tier so much and i cant wait till we have our own Ladder. Cheers
Maybe I am just beng dumb but I have a suggestion or two for VRs:
Clefairy
Lower to A. Doesn't do much without Calm Minding and even then it's a slooooow boi.
Servine:
For what it is worth, I suggest banning it. It can kill teams with the right setup and just do a bunch of all out nuking to most teams save for AGrimer. For the time being though, with Roselia I would move it to S+.
Staravia
With its possible abilities paired with the STAB + moves it gets this Pokemon is a force to be reckoned with. Move it up to A.
Admin: TheJ3estPenguin was subbed in for Xayah from the Traitorous Trumbeaks.
Admin: NFE has a challenge format, all SM games should be played on that.
Admin: Cheryl was subbed in for taranteeeno from the Ravenous Roselias.
Admin: Bloodace was subbed in for PhantomHurious from the Ferocious Ferroseeds.
Admin: Jho was subbed in for Lockjaw from The Sliggoons.
Message: Since there has been some confusion about how exactly teams will get into plaayoffs in case of any point or win differential ties, the standard team tour format of points > win differential > 3 slot tiebreaker with one required bo1 SM slot is the way it will go when determining the top 4. The winner of the Head to Head between the two tied teams would pick their slot second. In the case of a H2H tie with both teams, the team with the better H2H record against the 1st placed team picks second.
Message: 6 points are all you need for a guaranteed playoff spot, some teams can sneak through with 5 depending on win differential.
Admin: Ferocious Ferroseeds have traded Kaif for ShuckleDeath from the Traitorous Trumbeaks.
Admin: Lucario1582 was subbed in for ShuckleDeath from the Traitorous Trumbeaks.
Admin: EnzoLapras was subbed in for CrazyStevy from the Monferno Mafia.
Admin: After reviewing Discord Logs and other stuff, I have decided that Ktutverde vs Hawkie is a dead game. In terms of concrete evidence, the discord log I received was not enough to convince me that either side deserved anything more. No real time was scheduled, just a vague window of availability across two days. Ktutverde did give me PS message transcripts. However, if any scheduling or conversation happens on PS, I need screenshots. I cant accept a transcript. If I had a screenshot of those PS messages, I would have awarded act to Ktut, but I cant accept transcripts. Quick note, I am probably going to make a good scheduling message here soon since any admin decisions I make after this point regarding games will most likely be significant decisions. Hopefully, I can do that today but since its Eid, it might be tomorrow.
Note: ORAS NFE and Ubers NFE Usage Stats will be compiled at the end of the tour.
The document will be updated during the week with player records, standings, replays etc.
WEEK 5 Matchups
Bayern Munchlax (4) VS Ferocious Ferroseeds (4)
SM NFE Bo3: Frisoeva vs Tack
SM NFE: Plas JezebelleXX vs DadoRossoFuoco
SM NFE: Trace vs xHys
SM NFE: Blinkboy vs King Leo V
SM NFE: WMAR vs ShuckleDeath
SM NFE: Mirbro vs Huston
ORAS NFE: OfficialFissure vs Alexander489
NFE Ubers: SMB vs Monsareeasy
Traitorous Trumbeaks (6) VS The Sliggoons (2)
SM NFE Bo3: TBZ (Banana Spritzee) vs eli (Nuxl)
SM NFE: free my man tele vs Jho
SM NFE: ayedan vs Groot
SM NFE: Sir OutbackTheJ3estPenguin vs martha
SM NFE: Hawkie vs quagsgone
SM NFE: Lucario1582 vs SHSP
ORAS NFE: DanDaMan99 vs Crystalites
NFE Ubers: Spiderz vs jcbc
Ravenous Roselias (4) vs Monferno Mafia (4)
SM NFE Bo3: Ktutverde vs PD
SM NFE: Cheryl vs Toy Time King
SM NFE: Voltage vs OminousDraco
SM NFE: Miyami vs Elgino
SM NFE: Raj.Shoot vs ThiagoNunes
SM NFE: MK007 vs Ninjadog13
ORAS NFE: dom vs 85percent
NFE Ubers: Marjane vs CrazyStevy
Deadline is midnight Sunday August 18th GMT -4.
Manager Playoff Lineup Deadline is also midnight Sunday August 18th GMT -4
On the 4th August 2019, the ORAS NFE Council announced that Machoke would be suspected via council vote and gave tiering policy justification for its suspect. Everyone on the Council voted on Machoke in the last few days and Official Fissure was added as a member of the rotating council to vote on the suspect. Everyone has voted on the suspect. A majority vote was needed to ban Machoke.
With a unanimous 100% vote to ban Machoke, it has been banned from ORAS NFE. Machoke as a standalone Pokemon was deemed too broken relative to everything else in the tier, and its Dynamic Punch + No Guard set uncompetitive in a way which rendered skillful play irrelevant. Machoke can still be used for Week 5 of NFEPL but it will not be allowed in ORAS NFE from next week of the PL onwards.
Council Vote Breakdown and Reasoning
Tiering Policy Reasons for Machoke's suspect can be found here.
Individual Reasoning for Council Members can be found by clicking on their vote. Rotational Council Members were not required to give reasoning.
I also remade the NFE weebly and gave the account perms to Cheryl. I was hoping we could get the new website readded to the room intro: https://nfeps.weebly.com/
ITS YA BOY (Luxio) @ Flame Orb / Eviolite / Life Orb
Ability: Guts
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Ice Fang
- Facade
- Quick Attack
this mon is good, i swear. its like electabuzz but with status protection and significantly more breaking power including extremely strong electric+ice coverage allowing it to counter mareanie and deal with roselia/gabite. facade hits marsh pretty hard while quick attack can pick off some weakened fast frail guys including stuff like scarfers and combusken.
why use luxio over machoke? its flying resistance is rly nice and allows you to take on guys like vullaby, rufflet, trumbeak, and fletchinder, while if u were using machoke u would need a designated resist for them. in general luxio is surprisingly good defensively and good at taking advantage of more passive mons.
ive used the luxio team in 2 nfepl games and both times its put in a surprising amount of work:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-954102217 week 3 - luxio takes out a nearly full hp marshtomp with facade thanks to a crit, kills the scarf torracat with quick attack, and should have won the game vs last mon roselia except i got careless and let him die early.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nfe-958931078 week 4 - luxio trades itself for the vullaby, whos a huge obstacle for my team, despite me playing it really aggressively and trying to catch the gabite who i thought was scarf.
Gonna do a few quick noms so they're on the VR slate.
Ferroseed: B+ to B-
Ferroseed is very lacklustre in the current metagame imo. As a spike setter, a lack of reliable recovery really hurts it and means its long term Spike stacking potential is far lower than Roselia, Quilladin and even Shelmet. It's defensive typing is also currently not as good as in previous metas. A lot of servines now run Hidden Power Fire, Machoke is a top three mon, Fire types are very good, spikes and hazards limit its defensive roles even more due to a lack of reliable recovery and the fact that every team typically has atleast one grass type means Leech Seed is unreliable. It is still a decent Pokemon and checks the likes of Frogadier, non-HP Fire Kadabra and Rose, Mareanie etc and it has annoying utility to switch into but its not B+ level.
Rufflet: B- to B
Rufflet has seen quite a lot of usage this NFEPL. Birds are underprepped for, and a Pokemon that hits as hard as Rufflet and has coverage for Steels unlike Staravia is difficult to switch into. On top of that, its viable Bulk Up set which sets up on a lot of the Steel types which are expected to check it makes it even more dangerous to prep for and deal with. Its downsides are that its weak to Rocks, and has a 20% chance if Band or Scarf to miss and lose you all momentum or miss and die, but its merits are better than B- imo.
Pikachu: UR to C
Surprised no ones nommed Pikachu at some point. It has a very good Speed tier, a very strong Light Ball boosted STAB Volt Tackle, strong priority, Knock Off etc etc. Its frail as fuck and dies to anything if it cant kill whatever is in front of it, but its offensive capabilities alone and strong Prio in Espeed is good enough for a rank imo.
Kadabra: A+ to A
This ones probs gonna be controversial. I made this exact nom before the last VR update in March and got outvoted, but might as well try again. Kadabra is a good Pokemon. However, I feel like it is underwhelming in comparison to the other Pokemon in A+ or atleast the Pokemon I believe should be in A+. I'm honestly just gonna cp that post here, because it all still applies imo.
I don't think Kadabra holds its weight as much in comparison with the rest of the mons in A+, primarily because of two reasons, Grimer-A (and to a lesser extent other Dark Types) and because of how it needs to preserve its sash in most matchups but lacks the ability to OHKO or even 2HKO a lot of bulkier walls. Grimer-A is a fantastic Pokemon right now (potentially even A+ worthy but that's for another day) and being able to switch into Kadabra directly, play around the Counter with Clear Smog/FB then trap it while taking little from dazzling sets it back. High Grimer-A usage sets Kad back.
In terms of attack power, only having Psychic STAB is honestly not too great for it. Kad relies on pressuring Pokemon with its high speed and Focus Sash. However, Psychic is too weak to OHKO or 2HKO a lot of high ranking bulky Pokemon that it wants to such as Clef, Serv, Rose. Any Pokemon hit neutral by Psychic can invest enough HP and Spdef to check Kadabra if it has longevity. For a Pokemon that's so reliant on keeping its sash intact, its power is disappointing in this bulky tier.
Typical sashkad cannot effectively break bulky/stall teams and does very little to checks and walls such as servine. Other offensive Pokemon in A+ have the ability to cripple walls with utility and hit them harder (Haunter) or can get momentum on them via VoltTurn (Buzz, Frog, Monf).
Sash Kad also has no good defensive resistances. Compared to Haunter, who has very useful Ground and Fighting immunites and useful Grass/Poison resistances, Kadabra cannot switch in on any attack because of how reliant it is on sash.
Kad is still a great pokemon. It's fantastic vs HO and offensive teams which may need to sacrifice 1-2 mons to break its sash and kill it. It's also a reasonably solid revenge killer, although teams using speed boosting mons or setup sweepers will have ways of getting kad down to sash. However, I don't think it holds its weight vs bulkier builds in the metagame compared to everything else in A+.
Note: To add to that post, even Krok is finally starting to run Beat Up on Scarf sets. That was a move put in its analysis in March and its seeing usage this NFEPL. Two of the three premier trappers have means of getting around Kadabra now, which turn Counter into a 50/50. Counter is no longer this reliable bop your checks move. On top of this, the rise of Vullaby as a SpDef wall means theres another good check to Kad in this tier, both to the sash and double dance set.
I have two, more subjective and maybe controversial nominations for the SM NFE VR.
Frogadier A+ to A
Frog is most commonly used as a scarfer, making it great at dealing with Hyper Offense teams. However, HO teams aren’t very common and Frogadier struggles to fit on or deal with bulky offense and balance teams. Also, the most prominent threats in NFE at the moment are Pokemon like Servine, Roselia and Machoke which all have good natural bulk, with the former two even running Max SpDef in their most common sets, meaning that Scarf Frogadier fails to 2HKO any of the best 3 mons in NFE. It’s outclassed by other special attackers in A+; Haunter is a better and more reliable wallbreaker, Electabuzz is a much better pivot and hits harder, and Kadabra has access to utility moves such as Encore, Counter and Knock Off. I still think Frogadier is a solid mon, but it doesn’t have the same effectiveness as due to the current ServRose meta we’re in.
Misdreavus A- to A
Missy is an extremely versatile and underrated mon. It’s nice speed tier and good defenses, even without defensive investment, actually make it difficult to revenge kill unlike most other special threats. The Nasty Plot is extremely difficult to switch into making for a very good Wallbreaker. It’s Will-O-Wisp set cripples physical threats such as Pawniard and Alolan Grimer which are both common switchins, and with the occasional Pain Split or right coverage can actually beat both. It also capitalises on Roselia, which is one of the most commonly used mons, as it is able to switch in and sub up on it for free. Overall many teams right now, aren’t really prepared to deal with all of Misdreavus’ sets and it both deals with and fits very well into the bulky offense style teams which are extremely common at the moment.
This would be what I'd like for the new A rank to look like (with Machoke going up and Sliggoo going down obviously):
Frogadier (reasons above)
Kadabra (Still sorta unsure about this one since it's like Low A+ but High A and has gotten worse due to increasing Grimer A usage)
Mareanie (Still the best Monferno check as well as being a complete nuisance and offering great team support, definitely A)
Misdreavus (reasons above)
Fraxure: Ohhhhh boi have i had some fun with it. I propose for it to be from B+ to A-. Why? Power and bulk with Eviolite is an important thing, getting STAB off Outrage, but almost virtually unable to be stopped without a solid counter or Pokemon that can hinder it.
The following set lets it take down almost anything as long as it isn't locked into Outrage + gives it good bulk. Poison Jab takes down the main fairy of the Meta, Clefairy, while also being super effective with Servine. Superpower gets rid of Darks/Steel that don't have a resistence (or when it is at +1-+2), and either Dual Chop or Outrage. Dual Chop breaks sashes and Outrage is strong as heck, and don't forget that both are enhanced by STAB from Fraxure.
I disagree with both the Kadabra and Frogadier noms, based on the fact that both of you failed to realize some of the more important niches of the mons; their set varieties. Kadabra, has 3 viable sets with 3 different checks (Sash, Dual Dance, LO), while Frog is still wildly unexplored, with new sets being created such as Work Up, Physical and even Z-Move gaining some traction. Expert Belt Frog, which IMO, is the best set, wallbreaks much better than the Haunter/Ebuzz previously mentioned, due to how customizable its moveset is, and being able to lure specific threats your team needs to take care of, since it can choose 4 of Ice beam, Dark Pulse, Hydro Pump, Gunk Shot, U-turn, Grass Knot and HP Fire, all of which can lure threats for the rest of the team, and can pick up 2HKO'S that scarf couldn't, while maintaining its incredibly solid speed tier. Ebelt is used over LO, since you get to preserve HP, allowing you to live a +2 Monferno mach/vacuum after rocks. The only Pokemon that can eat 2+ hits from Frog are Mareanie, Machoke, Grimer-a and Munchlax. However, 2 of these Pokemon lack reliable recovery, so any chip inflicted will last for the rest of the match, and Munchlax isn't used often.
4 Atk Expert Belt Protean Frogadier Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Clefairy: 254-302 (73.8 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Expert Belt Protean Frogadier Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Clefairy: 161-190 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 60.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Protean Frogadier Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 146-175 (48.1 - 57.7%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Protean Frogadier Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Marshtomp: 317-374 (92.1 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Protean Frogadier Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Marshtomp: 206-250 (59.8 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Expert Belt Protean Frogadier Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Togetic: 166-197 (52.8 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Protean Frogadier Dark Pulse vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Metang: 187-223 (58.2 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Protean Frogadier Ice Beam vs. 180 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Servine: 151-180 (49.3 - 58.8%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Protean Frogadier Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 264-317 (90.4 - 108.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Protean Frogadier Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 187-221 (64 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Protean Frogadier Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 182-216 (53 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Double Dance Dabra is the other 'Mon I'd like to talk about, since while the meta has adapted to Sash Dabra, the reliance of Multi-Hit moves to lure Kadabra has no effect on this set. Eviolite gives this 'Mon surprising bulk, allowing it to be a check to Roselia, Non-Twave Togetic, Clefairy, Toxic Marshtomp, and can even live any non-zmove hit from Monferno. Double Dance Kadabra can break through any 'Mon, unless the opponent has a dark type, or something that can paralyze it, and get lucky through full paralysis. Psyshock allows you to break through Servine, if you CM on the switch and again on the first Leaf storm, as well as letting you win CM wars. Barrier lets you 1v1 any physical attacking non-dark type not named Machoke (And choke needs 2 max rolls with Knock to KO). While you have Kadabra on your team, the opponent is forced to keep their Dark type in the back, allowing teammates who might abuse a lack of dark types to sweep. Dabra has a blast praying on teams that use Serv/SpDef Fairies/ Steel types as their psychic check, and can dismantle them with ease.
TL;DR: The reason these 'Mons should be kept at A+ is due to their set variety, which allows them to circumvent their standard checks/provide new, unexpected roles for teams. While everyone complains that frog doesnt hit hard enough, it can 2HKO the majority of the meta, due to its coverage + Protean, and Kadabra can pick apart teams that prep for the more common set. The fact that the meta has adapted to these mons in the first place, while they STILL have a prominent place in the meta shows how strong they are, and can provide valuable support to many viable teams.
Ok so as i told to simbo and crystal i am going to do my own new nomination talk, but first i hugely agree with missy raising... to bad i can't say the same with dabra dropping.
Anyways now into my nominations:
- Croconaw: This mon is hugely slept on, the only real counter being mareanie makes it super good, it can set up on a lot of passive mons and with just at +1 it can sweeps a lot of teams.
- Eevee: Eevee rn is extremely niche and hardly ever is going to put into work, it doesn't set up in anything reliable. From B- to C or UR
- Eelektrik: This mon is super bulky and having not resistance makes it an amazing fit to bulkyish volt turns. From C to B or B-
I already talked in past post about this mons but the more i watch them in action the worst i think they are so:
Duosion and prinplup to B- instead of B+, salandit, graveler-A and yanma to UR.
But not everything is bad, i would like to see vibrava rising to B or B+ (not gonna talk deep on this mon since i alrdy did on another post)
Crystal’s ORAS NFEPL 3 Team Dump (ORAS Thoughts and VR Nominations + s/os)
(this will be a very long post)
I always wanted to do a teamdump of some sorts but I haven’t posted a lot on smogon (I’ll try harder in the future). With NFE in its best every position yet and OMs starting to get attention, I always had to intention of making a post like this...
And now that the Sliggoons’s tour run has sadly ended, I can drop my ORAS NFE teams I used. Enjoy.
I knew I wanted to bring Swadloon at some point in this tournament. Quagg suggested that I should bring webs in week 1 so I ended up doing so. Pawniard and Klang were always big threats to my previous attempts at making webs in both gen 6 and 7. This is why I paired Swadloon with a strong fight spam core, with Machoke being extremely difficult to switch in and a physically defensive monferno set with Swords Dance and Slack off to apply both defensive and offensive pressure. LO Kadabra allowed me to have an offensive special threat. Pawniard was basically there to deter hazard control. I added Fraxure as another wallbreaker and cleaner which work wonders with webs.
The game didn’t exactly go to plan as I was never able to keep my webs up despite removing my opponent’s hazard control somewhat early. Fortunately I was able to outplay for the most part during the mid game and wasn’t punished when I made a misclick towards the end.
Swadloon @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Toxic
- Giga Drain
- Magic Coat
Machoke @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Heavy Slam
- Bullet Punch
Monferno @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Def / 88 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Slack Off
========
Week 2: Paralysis Spam Balance
Opponent: Official Fissure (Laxes)
For Week 2, I lost to Quagg during playtesting to one of his Thunder Wave spam teams so I wanted to build my own. In ORAS Thunder Wave still had 100% accuracy and paralysis still multiplied speed by 0.25. Clefairy sometimes uses Thunder Wave as a filler move anyways and allows it to set up easier. Pawniard can abuse Thunder Wave by paraflinching opponents. Despite burn also being better in this generation, I chose to use Thunder Wave over Will-O-Wisp because it’s better crippling targets in general as my team is quite bulky. Tangela served as my main Machoke wall being able to easily live 2 Close Combats from the standard Machoke set even without its eviolite. Monferno helped deal with the teams severe weakness to Pawniard and was another bulky setup sweeper. Finally I chose Vullaby as my last slot as it gave me a special wall with reliable recovery whilst also giving me hazard control.
The game went pretty much as planned. I mostly predicted correctly in the early game and was able to punish my opponent with Thunder Wave when he was forced to switch out. Tangela had pretty good matchup and played a massive part being able to wall Machoke and constantly force out Vullaby. I’m probably most happy with the outcome of this game as it was one of my cleaner games.
Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
Pawniard @ Eviolite
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
I was testing a lot of weird stuff for this week but didn’t feel confident bringing any of the heat so I yet again asked Quagg for something more standard and together built a Bulky Offense Hazard Stack team. Monferno, Prinplup and Quilladin make for a good Fire Water Grass defensive core which offers both hazard and hazard removal. Quill is crept to outspeed max speed adamant Machoke. Misdreavus acts as a spinblocker but also a solid special sweeper. Klang was added as a setup sweeper which could also act as a Special Wall. Krokorok was added to help with speed control and help cleaning late game.
I had a rough start because I didn’t expect the Togetic set. Nasty Plot Togetic had pretty good matchup against my team but that was well scouted and prepped by my opponent. It pretty much swept my team and his Kadabra cleaned up. I played pretty poorly this game and didn’t really do this team justice.
Monferno @ Eviolite
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Def / 88 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Slack Off
I always thought that Healing Wish was a really cool move and that it had a lot of clutch potential so I decided to build a team around full support Clefairy. Fraxure is one of the scariest setup sweepers and I thought with Healing Wish, this would let it break for itself and then come back in later to clean. I added a Volt Turn core of Scarf Monferno and Electabuzz to help chip away at the health of my opponent’s mons aiding a Fraxure Sweeper. It also gave me some immediate speed control and allows me to keep momentum. I added Quilladin so it could provide Spikes support and Vibrava as a slower pivot and a means of hazard control. I also decided to start nicknaming mons ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
I got a lot of momentum with my lead and was able to pivot well during the early turns. Hax nearly screwed me over in the mid game but fortunately Clefairy had amazing matchup once Pawniard was knocked out. Some hax towards the end basically guaranteed my win. Clefairy was essential able to clean the game successfully despite that not being the intention of the team. The team was one of my favourite to build and the only thing I'd say is you might want to use Mach Punch over Gunk Shot to help with Pawniard.
Lil Voop (Clefairy) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off
- Healing Wish
The first team Voop gave me when I was trying to learn NFE after two years of not playing mons was a Duosion team; his only advice was “basically just remove the dark type and win duosion, lol”. So I decided that I wanted to bring Duosion and pair it with Clefairy and Monferno which could both switch into dark type attacks and have reliable recovery whilst also hitting back decently hard. Roselia was added because I wanted Spikes as I knew this team would be quite passive so any damage beforehand would be great. It also gave me a reliable switch in for Electabuzz’s pivoting. Staravia was added for hazard control and a check to Fighting-types and being a decent PhysDef wall. I’m also super scared of Machoke so I added Tangela as the last mon, in order to stall Machoke with Toxic, and still be a solid switchin when its Eviolite is knocked off.
The game really well as I didn’t expect my opponent to sack one of his Dark-types by turn 3. I was sad that Duosion didn’t get a chance to be used but my fat core managed to eventually by slowly picking off his frailer offensive threats and Pokemon with no recovery.
Ageless Baby (Tangela) @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Knock Off
I know some of these teams will be slightly outdated because I built them when Machoke was still around, but I think some of them are still pretty much fine, considering I don’t use Machoke a whole lot and the ideas of others can be messed around with.
Thoughts on ORAS NFE in NFEPL
I think that ORAS NFE is in a really good state at the moment in general. Although we haven’t seen the full impact of banning Machoke, it was definitely the right call and on paper, the meta looks like it’ll be a lot more healthier now. I love that both bulky offense and balance really thrive in this generation and they probably will continue to do so post Machoke meta. I think especially balance and fatter teams are extremely underrated, but will probably be more common now that another wallbreaker is gone. Hopefully with Machoke gone the meta will become less centralised, and the various playstyles that have already been shown to work will continue to be effective.
In general, I found the early weeks really fun until everybody started using the uncompetitive Machoke set. I hope that now we’ve got rid of the behemoth things will go back to being fun again. This tour let me be quite creative with what I wanted to bring especially in a somewhat unexplored old gen. I think that if I didn’t get sorta lazy and complacent during Week 3, I could have prepared a better team but I’m still happy that I went 4-1, this tournament. It was nice to take a break from playing the servrose stuff all the time.
For the future, I predict the best 5 mons to be: Clefairy, Monferno, Electabuzz, Kadabra and Roselia. Clefairy will benefit greatly as Machoke could beat it 1v1. Monferno now has less competition. Electabuzz and Kadabra both remain as strong special attackers. Roselia likes the fact that one of the best physical wallbreakers are gone since it is a special wall. This doesn’t look like a significant shake up but I think there will be a bigger change in the defensive mons we used or the spreads we used for defensive walls. We will probably be seeing more specially defensive walls now there isn’t a need to check Machoke.
Nominations for ORAS VR
Monferno A+ to S
I might be slightly biased here since I’ve used Monferno on every team, but this mon is amazing. With Machoke gone, Monferno becomes the best Fighting-type in the tier. It’s extremely versatile, Scarf is really good for Volt Turn and as speed control, Offensive Swords Dance makes for an extremely solid setup sweeper, Nasty Plot is an underrated Special Wallbreaker/Sweeper and Physically Defensive Monfernois by far the best check to Steel-type setup sweepers, such as Pawniard and Klang, which are an even bigger threat with Machoke being gone. Not to mention, Monferno can act as a good lead with access to Stealth Rocks and also Taunt to stallbreak Pokemon such as Clefairy. I think it matches up well against other mons and is definitely deserving of a rise.
Electabuzz A to A+
Where to start, I honestly don’t know how this is below Frog. Anyways I think Electabuzz is amazing because it gets a lot of momentum against all the bulky offense teams that are being used at the moment. From S to A-, only SpDef Clefairy, Roselia, Krokorok, SpDef Quilladin and Sliggoo will happily switch into a Specs Volt Switch and only Krokorok can actually stop it’s momentum but has to fear Focus Blast. Also with Servine not being around, it’s probably even better than in SM NFE so I don’t know why it’s this low down when the SpDef grasses aren’t used as often.
Duosion A to A-
I honestly thought this thing would be a lot better, but seeing as I’m the only person to have used it so far, and I didn’t even get to do anything, I think it should be moved down. Despite there being no Alolan Grimer, Pawniard, Krokorok and Vullaby are still all common and wall limiting opportunities for Duosion to setup. These Dark-types will most likely remain with somewhat high usage, especially with Machoke gone. Double Dance isn’t really worth running when most teams have a Dark-type. It’s also an extremely slow to get working and as a win condition requires too much support to justify an A rank.
Misdreavus A- to A
Missy is super underrated and without Haunter around, it’s the best Ghost-type and the only really viable offensive one. It’s Nasty Plot set is extremely valuable as it can break past common fat walls. It’s utility is amazing will Will-O-Wisp burn being dealing ⅛ damage in Gen 6. It’s one of the more bulkier offensive threats when using Eviolite making it somewhat difficult to revenge kill. It’s faster than Monferno which is extremely important in this tier. Also with no Alolan Grimer, means it can run Dazzling Gleam and Hidden Power Fighting to deal with common switchins. Overall its versatility is amazing and without Machoke absorbing its burns, it’s able to more freely spread burns and cripple targets.
Gabite B+ to A-
Whilst I never actually used, it this tournament, I think this mon is actually extremely solid role compressor, with access to Stealth Rocks and phazing. It’s great as an offensive Rocker and hits a really good speed tier being able to outspeed Monferno. Also its ability to run both a Scarf or a Band set makes it quite versatile and able to fulfill the role as a cleaner or a wallbreaker respectively. I also think Gabite is quite difficult to deal with for teams without Clefairy or Togetic due to its amazing typing, both offensively and defensively.
Ferroseed B+ to B
I think that Ferroseed is very lackluster as a defensive wall, which is meant to setup hazards. It’s too passive, with the many setup sweepers in the tier capitalising on this. With no real reliable recovery, it struggles to continuously switch in. Whilst it has solid utility, I don’t see any real reason for teams really using it over other Steel-types, namely Pawniard, Metang and Klang since they all have some sort of offensive capability.
In light of the Machoke ban, I think all of these nominations still apply except Tangela, which can remain in B-. For ease, I’ll list them here:
Dusclops A- to B+
Sliggoo A- to B+
Fraxure B to B+
Marshtomp B to B+
Pikachu B- to somewhere in C
Vibrava C+ to B-
Shelgon C+ to C-
Honedge C- to UR
Please feel free to add or comment on my VR nominations.
Shoutouts
Since I don’t have a badge I’m unable to ping all of you, but hopefully you see this anyways.
I’ll start with huge shoutouts to vooper . We’ve known each other for a while now, so I was really glad I finally had the opportunity to work with you as your Assman. I think we drafted a solid team, with a really positive team environment. The early weeks didn’t quite go to plan but we started to pull it together in weeks 3 and 4. Unfortunate how things went in the end, but it’s mons at the end of the day. It’s nice your a lot more calm than me when it comes to these things cause it strikes a fine balance between the two of us and our management of the team. I hope your schedule means you’re less busy so that you can play more NFE in the future, cause some weeks were rough when you kinda got busy with your own stuff. Other than that I found it an enjoyable experience to manage Sliggoons despite the ups and downs.
Next, massive praise to all the Sliggoons, stuff didn't go as planned but I'm still proud of y'all and the positive environment you guys created, making first two weeks somewhat enjoyable despite our results:
Quagg We basically spam ask each other whether we can test teams lmao. It was a pleasure to playtest ORAS NFE and I love the signature Monferno set we created. You’re probably the person I can rely most on when it comes to teambuilding and advice about ORAS and help shape the way I build some of my teams. Always fun talking to you and being nervous wrecks before our games. Just be more positive after the outcomes of your games.
GrootFromDidney It’s always great talking to you especially when you educate me about the NFE room history. You’re pretty funny as well with all the random stuff you do from some really weird stories you tell me to lewding Sliggoo. Over this tour, we’ve got to know each other better and Always fun to battle against you as well but please stop using SD Roselia.
Nuxl Viper was really hyping you up, and he was right. Not only were you great chat presence, you were extremely dedicated at picking up the tier within a couple weeks and always willing to help others test teams. I hope you stick around NFE in the future. Also you were fortunate enough to play in the highlight match of the tour against Banana Spritzee.
martha I heard that you were a solid battler, but I didn’t know what to expect because you’ve never played much NFE before this tournament. I’m still glad we picked you up because you performed really well, especially considering you hadn’t played the tier beforehand, and I hope you enjoyed NFE.
jcbc Another really chill person. It’s always enjoyable talking to you although most our exchanges normally consist of just <3 lmao. Some of the stuff you bring to games is wack and definitely questionable but it’s definitely a sight to see. Was fun having you on the goons.
Jho Vooper said you were a must buy lol, but I’m happy he did. Your teambuilding was always solid, especially with the scouting you do with the other CAP guys. You were able to bounce back multiple times despite some rough and unfortunate games which was great.
SHSP It’s unfortunate how some of your games went, but you were extremely positive on discord and despite your schedule becoming more busy the later we got into the tour, I’m still grateful you were able to play your games.
lockjaw It’s always fun when you just challenge me to test your teams. I wish you’d communicate more cause you seem pretty cool. You sorta underperformed this tour but I’m sure you’ll bounce back next tour.
Velvet Blood It was sad to see you have other commitments but thanks for helping out the Sliggoons when you could. Check out the tier again once you have more time.
Bebo It kinda sucked that your activity kinda died due to many reasons, especially because the one game you played you got lucked. Otherwise you would have been an extremely solid player for us.
rssp1 PRAISE RUFFLETS! Still waiting for the hype matchup of you vs Eli.
Jordy Thanks a lot helping the team with your ideas, especially helping your CAP friends build and being chill and supportive. It was much appreciated and I hope to see you around next NFEPL so you can signup and get drafted.
EpicUmbreon29 Viper invited you for support and you said 5 lines. Thanks anyways xd.
Other GOAT Users:
Simbo Absolute GOAT for NFE work in general, I don’t think I’ve come across anyone as dedicated as you when it comes to doing work behind the scenes and being an absolute carry with that sorta stuff. It was really fun working together on ORAS NFE and you’re the right balance between chill and serious. My only request is please stop wanting to Ban Servine :). I hope you’ll stick around despite your busy schedule in the future.
DadoRossoFuoco The GOAT when it comes to battling in NFE. I’ll keep hyping you up and supporting you for as long as you play NFE lol. Always fun to chat to, especially our small conversations after our matches for this tour. We should probably build sometime.
Thunder~BALLZ We don't talk too often (time zones are annoying) but you’re chill when we do. Your situation this tour sucked but I hope things improve next time. If you’re looking for an assman next year for NFEPL, then hopefully I’ll still be around then :P.
85percent I’m glad Quagg introduced you to me. It was great talking to you and having your insight during the development of ORAS NFE extremely useful. We should build together some time.
SBPC We’ve only started talking more recently but it’s nice for you to share ideas and I like the fact you were super dedicated at helping out the tier especially ORAS. Also GOAT for making the whole basis for BW NFE. Looking forward to learning from you.
PhantomHurious I’ve known you for less time than the others on this list, but it’s still nice to talk to you. You’re extremely chill and underrated. I hope you stick around in NFE and hopefully things go better for you next NFEPL.
Uberbully I promised this guy a shoutout so here you go… Now stop bugging me to use 6 Pokemon with Thief. In all seriousness, it’s still fun talking to you on discord even though it’s been 5 years since we first met on main.
A Wild Marill: Monsareeasy You get your own role. You’re extremely enthusiastic about mons and especially Marill, which is great. Sometimes too enthusiastic but it’s still always fun to play against you.
I’ve probably left a bunch of people out, so sorry, but you guys know who you are. Thanks to everyone who has helped contribute to the NFE Room and forums. It’s helped a lot during our development and I hope we can get to Level 2 soon.
Note: I’ll might post my thoughts or more VR nominations on SM NFE, once NFEPL ends.
Shelgon C+ --> B-/B
Shelgon is a really nice Pokemon in the tier. Its monotyping of Dragon gives it good resistances and it isn't weak to many things in the tier. It has really good Defense which allows it to switch into many physical attackers such as Machoke, Monferno, Metang, and Krokorok. It also has access to Wish, which gives it some more utility. The set I use for Shelgon is:
Shelgon @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Def
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Fire Fang
- Crunch
Outrage is, well, the best physical Dragon move out there. Fire Fang and Crunch are used in case you don't want to be locked into Outrage if the opponent has a Fairy type. Dragon dance increases its already high Attack stat and helps its Speed, something needed for NFE. Here are a few calculations that prove it hits hard:
+2 252+ Atk Shelgon Outrage vs. 248 HP / 72+ Def Eviolite Mareanie: 280-330 (92.4 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Shelgon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Marshtomp: 208-246 (60.4 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Shelgon Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Roselia: 314-370 (103.2 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This shows that an Outrage after 1 or 2 Dragon Dances can be brutal. Fire Fang will destroy a bulky Roselia and even Servine.
With this set, Shelgon can get 420 Defense. That allows it to safely switch into almost any Physical attacker. Here are a few calculations to prove it can be bulky:
252+ Atk Guts Machoke Close Combat vs. 80 HP / 176 Def Eviolite Shelgon: 153-180 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Monferno Close Combat vs. 80 HP / 176 Def Eviolite Shelgon: 172-204 (59.1 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Krokorok Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 176 Def Eviolite Shelgon: 67-81 (23 - 27.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 4HKO
As you can see, the other Pokemon have to set up to even 2OHKO Shelgon. Shelgon is a physical tank in this meta, and it will be hard to be stopped.
Shelgon @ Eviolite
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 124 HP / 132 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Roar
- Dragon Claw
- Protect
This is a good Wish set. It has enough bulk to survive hits and can still push out some damage. Sadly, Wish is incompatible with Dragon Dance, so Roar is used instead. Roar will help by forcing the opponent go into a random Pokemon if they switch into a counter/check.
Hello my name is WMAR, prepare for grammar errors like never before. As my run in NFEPL comes to an end in an outstanding 0-1, i thought i like to share my amazing experience when being drafted in Mid Season. Thank you for at least picking me and i was one of the first even tho i went 3k and i feel very please to be apart of an amazing team, NFE has proven to be the best experience in all my 7 years of Showdown history, and 4 years of Smogon history. i have became an innovator and i spent the most time building for this tier and i want to be apart of its future. Community is amazing and the atmosphere is so precious. The pure fact im apart of the QC team because i helped with the eevee analysis and fixed the Ubers calc import means alot and i just love to help as best as i can. My teambuilder is so full of heat that i wanna share with yall some teams i made up till this point and explain their purposes. Building each team was and is so much fun and i absolutely love this tier so much. Here are my teams in Order of which they are made.
This was my first team i ever made when i started NFE, at the time i was using samples and i really wanted to build my own. First mon that came to mind was Marill, i was obsessed with Pokemon Stadium 2 and i was breeding a BD Marill, this is just an AoA with rest for some recovery and EVs live servine leaf storm uninvested and ruin Eviolite. I remember in LC when missy was allowed and seeing how it was versatile in this meta, and its not PU or ZU makes me very happy to use it which its sheer versatility. The rest of the team is just Grass resists cause fuck Servine LMAO. Torracat is the highlight as people use Scarf and i see the appeal of it, i just wanted a sweeper and this set work well with my team. For the first time building im proud of this
So this was just some random idea i saw, Eevee is B- because of Eevium Z, so i wanted to use it to the fullest, now i have no idea when building this team how fat it is and i ran with it LOL. This was me letting Eevee put in work, maybe too focused on eevee, but hey im using Gloom so thats fun, Strength Sap is so broken.
I saw this Mareanie in the paste and i was so amazed, this can kill Servine and cripple other mons, and in execution that exactly happened. And then idk what happened i looked in more pastes and i saw the Kadabra and the Monferno, Monferno beats dark types and so does Clef, Kadabra as the unexpected wincon and not many people run Dark types so i abused that. Banded Staravia is so underrated and Flying resists dont exist so gotta use that, then Vibrava for defog cause it doesnt care for those.
Lemme start by saying, Yanma sucks LMAO. But trust me when i say this is a hella fun team, and probably the most fun ive had just building this. I have an unhealthy obsession with Yanma since this is the one meta Yanma can be ever viable. Pikachu is so underrated man, it hits hard and it maybe limited to Light Ball but hey its not a gimmick and its legit fun. Marshseed is my favorite core and they can work well, Marsh is so great and they both hazard stack helping either Frax or Busk to clean, or if im not Foolish, Yanma can clean.
These are some examples of the teams i made and like i said i had so much fun building and i still do. Now imma shoutout some people who to me are legendary
Mirbro you helped me test my teams and you are genuinely one of the nicest i ever met Cheff Gordo you made me realize how much of a valueable asset i am and made me motivated to keep trying and made me confident on next season of NFE frisoeva for helping me optimize my mareanie team and making it so much better, you are a legend
and most importantly London, idk your tag theirs 3 and i dont wanna tag the wrong one, thank you for picking me mid season, for the little bit i was in it was surreal being in my first team tournament and it was fun.
If you havent tried NFE i highly encourage you to join, amazing tier, amazing people, amazing and welcoming community. I will try my absolute best to contribute and help as best as i can and i hope the teams i provided helps, tho i dont recommend unless you know this tier. You guys are absolute legends and i appreciate everyone and hope for the best.
