Decided to make a DPP nom since signups for classic just started.
Murkrow B to A-
Murkrow is one of the fastest Pokemon in the tier. 91 speed lets it outspeed almost everything in the tier except for Kadabra, Diglett, Yanma and Grovyle, but Sucker Punch always kills Kadabra and Diglett in 1 hit and has a high chance to kill Yanma and Grovyle. Brave Bird 2hkoes or 1hkoes almost every Pokemon in the tier bar Physical Defensive Gligar, Metang and Lairon, but Murkrow has room for either Heat Wave or HP Ground/Ice which means that Murkrow doesnt really have any safe switchins. Pursuit lets Murkrow trap Misdreavous, Kadabra and its really nice for chipping other Pokemon that it forces out.
252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Golbat: 255-301 (87.6 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Misdreavus: 288-340 (110.3 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Vigoroth: 231-273 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 133-157 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Wartortle: 160-189 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Murkrow Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gligar: 328-388 (98.2 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Murkrow Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lairon: 400-472 (123.4 - 145.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Murkrow Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 20 SpD Metang: 192-228 (59.4 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery]
To carry on in Quagg's stead, I wanna place some nominations forward for the DPP metagame, seeing how the tour is coming up and it's been under the radar for a quite a bit and hopefully, this can provoke discussion and encourage more people to try out this oldgen since it's being overshadowed by everything else.
Kadabra A- to A/A+
After playing some games as of late, Kadabra is honestly one of the best mons in the meta imo and I think we've overlooked its capabilities. It's the fastest unboosted mon in the metagame and the strongest special attacker we have. In a tier lacking Eviolite, Kadabra is capable of completely just destroying teams due to how DPP is just a less bulkier meta and everything is really frail. Maybe because stuff like Sneasel, Electabuzz and Magmar were overshadowing Kadabra, the DPP Council (myself included) put this thing lower because its threat level was lower than the aforementioned mons. Now that we've dealt with those a while back, Kadabra is pretty uncontested rn, having no real defensive checks or counters whatsoever and requires you to actually have speed control/Murkrow or you risk losing the entire game (and speed control isn't really hard to have in DPP.)
Kadabra @ Life Orb
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Fighting]
Psychic can 2hko everything that doesn't resist it. Shadow Ball beats Misdreavus, Energy Ball bops Marshtomp and the Hidden Powers are pretty customisable depending on what you need to hit. Spdef Bronzor has a 70% chance to get 2hko by HP Fire and handles Metang (which walls you otherwise) and HP Fighting deals with any Lairon set.
Grovyle B to B+/A-
Everyone who's faced me in DPP knows I like to use Grovyle and I'm not particularly biased, this thing is actually good. Physical Grovyle is actually better than Special for one reason only. Swords Dance. Boosting in DPP means killing everything in sight and since Grovyle is tied to be the second fastest unboosted mon with Diglett and Yanma, it does a pretty good job at being a Swords Dance sweeper. Physical SD is able to bypass would-be checks like Spdef Rose, Golbat and Metang and Grovyle has good matchups against every mon in the S and A ranks outside of Piloswine and Kadabra. It's much more reliable than Croconaw as a SD mon so a change in rank should reflect this.
I'll do a quick RMT while I'm at it. Monferno is the most versatile mon in the tier and lead is pretty good. Being able to always set up rocks against opposing teams is amazing since our only form of hazard removal is Wartortle. Taunt stops any lead slower eg Metang from setting up rocks and Overheat is just a strong nuke against anything that doesn't resist.
The star of this team is SD Grovyle (which I just nominated to be higher). As I've mentioned, being one of the fastest mons in the tier has its benefits when setting up and Grovyle is just a huge threat imo. Leaf Blade checks common stuff like Wartortle and Marshtomp, Double Edge is a strong move that lets Grovyle beat Roselia and Golbat and Low Kick gets the Steels like Metang which is 2hko at +2 quite easily.
Marshtomp is my physdef tank, its most notable job is checking the best mon in the tier Monferno and also mons like Diglett and Gligar. Not much else to say.
Meditite is really strong. A shame HJK is only 100BP in gen 4, if it was 130, probably would've banned it. Either way, Band is a decent breaker that can easily 2hko any physdef mon in the tier which includes Wartortle and Marshtomp and essentially has no switchins.
Gligar is one of the best scarfers, if not the best scarfer thanks to it keeping up momentum with U-turn, causing switches, being faster than common scarfers like Monferno and good damage output. Its natural physical bulk also allows it to come on stuff like Staravia (rip reckless), Monferno and Vigoroth.
Finally we've reached our only hazard control option, Wartortle. I've liked to run speedy tortle sets for beating Roselia down with Zen Headbutt, which is Wartortle's biggest pain. Other than that, its pretty common to run this so yeah.
Doing some noms in preparation for a pre-classic VR update. Also requesting sample teams from anyone kind enough to lob one. If you have a sample team, you can either submit it publically here or pm it to me, cheers. Will probs close this request in like a week.
A to A+
Missy has gotten a lot better post-Pawn. It no longer has such a need to run either Wisp or HP Fighting to pressure Pawn and prevent setup, which heavily opens it up to run a multitude of potent sets. From standard breaking NP sets, with good coverage options, to WilloHex, to bulkier stallbreaker Taunt, Pain Split sets, to even Mean Look Perish Song sets, it has all the tools needed to threaten every playstyle in the tier. It also has the added bonus of completely walling the standard setup Munch set and bulkier Taunt sets also beat Duosion, which is very nice. Better than the A rank mons rn imo.
A to A-
Spikes are still good, and the choice of Taunt/Roar for bulkier setup mons is nice. It also no longer has to worry about Pawn setting up on its standard sets. However, it is far too passive and either loses to or is unable to do much to many higher ranked threats, it's not an A rank mon anymore.
B+ to A
Munchlax has gotten much better post-Pawn, as it no longer has to worry about trying to setup before Pawniard does. Current Chip Away filler Curse Rest sets are very dangerous, allowing Munchlax to sit on and break through teams. A good base 85 attack means that, even when uninvested, offensive checks such as Monferno do not appreciate switching into it. It also serves as solid counterplay to the multitude of special threats in the tier, and can beat psyshock Duosion sets. Overall, definitely worthy of a rise. It loses to encore support and usually has to pick between which ghost it can hit, but it is better than B+ post-Pawn.
A- to A
Duosion has turned into a beast post-Pawn. The standard double dance set has seen a lot of usage post-Pawn, and has become a lot more dangerous with one less premier Dark-type in the tier. In addition, less standard but still viable CM two attacks sets such as Thunder or Signal Beam work quite well to lure other Dark-type walls. It can still be shut down and stopped by Encore, Trick, phazing, Taunt to some extent etc, but it is a much bigger threat post-Pawn and deserves a raise.
B+ to A
Vullaby has gotten much better post-Pawn. It can now Defog freely without worry of Defiant, does not have to worry about letting Pawn SD up on it, and acts as a fantastic wall, Knock Off user, and hazard remover in one Mon. Also is a Dark-type, which is quite valuable in the current meta. It is far better than B+, definitely deserves A now.
B+ to B
Marsh has dropped since the last time this VR was updated. It faces heavy competition as a Stealth Rock user from the likes of Clefairy, Monferno, Gabite, Metang etc, and even faces competition as a defensive Water-type from Frillish. While its still a decent defensive wall and check and it has good 4th move options, it's too passive and susceptible to chip to make good use of it. Should be dropped.
B+ to B
Monferno is still fantastic, and now both Duosion and Munchlax are better setup Pokemon in the current tier. It can still act as a decent setup Pokemon or SpDef wall, but it gets walled by too much to be effective at either.
B to B-
Sorry Arctic but this mon is not great rn, incredibly difficult to fit onto a team and very lacklustre, should get bumped down.
B- to C
Its Defog + Rocks niche is not needed in the current meta, and there are better Rockers and defensive Water Pokemon in the tier
B- to C
Ok SpDef wall. Curse sets are outclassed by better setup Pokemon, offensive special attacker is ok but far too difficult to fit on a team, there are better special attackers.
B- to C
Still walls Roselia and is a decent Defog user but most teams would prefer Vullaby.
C+ to B
Eel probably should have been higher than C+ for a while, but post-Pawn meta has helped it somewhat, since Pawn could usually setup on standard Eel sets. Eel is a pretty good pivot rn, with access to very useful early game wall chipping and softening moves in Knock Off and Super Fang. No weaknesses, an immunity to Spikes, and access to both Volt Switch and U-turn makes it a very useful utility mon, plus it can check common threats such as Staravia, Rufflet, Kadabra etc. when defensively invested.
C- to C+
Dom's defensive resttalkvoltscald set is pretty good rn. It benefits from not being Pawn setup 70% of the time anymore, and serves as a good pivot and check to dangerous Pokemon such as Monferno and Frogadier.
Other council member noms:
C+ to B (ik u said B- but B opens up an extra rank to vote it to)
Frillish up to B-, it's like the best Defensive Monferno check with reliable recovery. Has Taunt means it isnt complete setup fodder and thererore it doesnt insta lose to like duo or munch. Burns or Toxics to cripple common switchins. Benefitted a lot from Pawn going but I feel it was already underranked before.
B+ to A
B to B+
A- to B+
As part of an overall ORAS rankings clear-up, any Pokemon which has not been nommed but is in the B- or below rank will be put on the voting slate and placed anywhere between UR to B by the council members. Many Pokemon in the lower ranks haven't moved since ORAS was created before NFEPL 3, and I think ORAS is now developed enough to make the lower ranks more defined and accurate.
ORAS VR update should be out before ORAS Classic R1.
I'll just add some thoughts about DPP nfe that i gathered a bit while playing and make some nominations. In my eyes, dpp is a really centralised tier around the top mons and theres only a small room for inovation. Thats why i feel like the A ranks need some repositioning.
A to A- I do think hes reliable at trapping but at what cost? You run sash or scarf to trap a specific pokemon but you dont get anything else out of it. Hard to put on a team unless you really need a specific mon gone. A- sound like a goodish placement
A to A- Really good offensive typing and one of the only good spikers in the tier., hazard setter that beats wortortle. And thats where the good traits end. The tier being really offensive gives rose a really hard time to even get in, and spikes arent too valuable with the high amount of levitating mons.
A- to A Best AoA in the tier. TTK already said a lot about dabra and i completely agree. Biggest weakness is being easly trapped, i can see pursuit be a lot more common if dabra starts to get usage
A- to A The only good spinner and hes doing his job so well (no tentacruel, youre not good). I love this mon, it can run a lot of filler moves besides the classic surf/spin combo like seismic toss,ice beam, protect, aqua jet, forseight and toxic.
B+ to A/A- Incredibly strong in such a frail meta, has a strong priority move, is able to trap and has a good movepool on both attacking sides. This mon will 99% get a kill but the only downside is, hes going down with you. You will get 1 or maximal 2 kills but you will die to recoil in the proccess, still an amazing move with decent speed. (read quags post)
Now this is something a bit more controversial but i would put
from A+ to S. Missy can do it all. Anti lead, pivot, scarfer ,set up sweeper, spin blocker and do all your house chores. Missy can be slapped on every team with ease (Taunt missy is my go to lead atm). Wisp support is really valuable against its common switches and missy's good movepool can make switching in a hard task. Really good in the meta and I can see it being in S rank.
I wrote this all out of my head in about 20mins so if you find any errors lemme know
Whilst lead Yanma has sort of fallen off, I think Yanma's one of the best late game wincons at the moment due to its dual STAB moves basically hitting every common Pokemon for at least neutral damage. Speed Boost in conjunction with Protect means it can reliably outspeed the entire unboosted metagame, making it difficult to revenge kill particularly in the late game if the opponent has not preserved Piloswine or Murkrow (assuming they have either). Its incredible speed backed up by the high roll nature of Hypnosis and Air Slash flinches means that it can be incredibly difficult to deal with for teams since would be checks can be "haxed" past with relative ease, and these checks aren't particularly reliably either with how the majority of the meta is extremely frail and how many bulkier Pokemon are relied on to check multiple offensive threats. Overall I believe Yanma is incredibly strong right now, and its insane speed tier lets it revenge kill other Pokemon as well as perform an effective cleaning role.
Lost NFE classic and I have no idea the next time I'll need any of these, so tadah. These are ones I made, I used some that I grabbed from sample teams and those aren't here. Teams might be wacky since I really was only able to test with other people in r1 and r2 of playoffs
I can try, but intelligence is not my strong point.
Time to give my opinions because there is no use hiding them anymore
Murkrow to S, this mon ohkos or 2hkos everything pursuit traps etc
Missy to S, spinblocks and is great, imo the best set is colbur berry cm/plot tbolt sball pain split
idc council is voting or w/e anyways
MAKE POIPLE HIGHER!!! POLIWHIRL IS IN THE SAME TIER AS IT AND POIPLE IS GOOD!
Go Chomper (Haunter) @ Poisonium Z
EVs: 184 HP / 164 SpA / 160 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect Type
- Pain Split
- Sludge Bomb
ORAS, the reason im actually making this post
We all know oras has problems and very few people enjoy it. There needs to be changes to the metagame.
Clefairy + Vullaby + Monferno is on every good team. They wall almost everything and can do so much. If your team doesnt have these 3 it sucks. You can still win without these 3, but they are so good that there is no reason not to have them. This core does have a few weaknesses such as LO kadabra and Frog, but it doesnt stretch too far outside of those two.
Team structure is generally "The Big 3", a breaker for the big 3 and something that can check kadabra or frog. The gameplan I had in all of my oras games was to knock and potentially para the opposing Big 3 and try to win easily with a threat.
This is hard, but the most viable option is to change the ban list.
Servine was banned so early on and it should definitely be tried in the current metagame. With the #1 and #3 most common pokemon beating it as well as other common pokemon such as roselia, it definitely could end up being balanced. I dont know if this will help the metagame, but either way it should be retested due to potentially being balanced.
Banning Monferno and/or Clefairy
The reasoning is self explanatory. They are the definition of over centralizing.
Unbanning Machoke and Pawniard in combination with Servine
This might be a little desperate, but machoke is adapted to in a healthy way this will make the metagame so much better.
Hopefully oras can be saved from being terrible. Retesting servine is a great first step.
to S for sure S- at the least
*There is a bit more to oras, but ig I do have something to hide for NFEPL
Forgot to post this a week back when this happened, but no harm in posting now.
BW2 NFE Council Has Been Restructured
Pretty much, old council was super inactive bar a couple members so we have started from scratch w bw2 council, the new council is TL: SBPC and council of Monsareeasy, Tack :], and WMAR. Contributions of a great extent can also have you voted onto BW2 NFE Council.
Grats again to Arctic for winning the classic tour :D. Was a blast playing some old gens again. I decided to take a look at the VRs and realised there is quite a few mons I wanna see ranked differently. Gonna mainly focus on DPP and the A ranks for this one, but I will also add the lower ranks I think should be changed.
A+ to S
This Pokemon had so many good sets. Its the best anti lead, very scary setup mon with Nasty Plot, great scarfer with access to Trick for passive checks, solid bulky support mon that can spam Twave/Willo. And its even the best spin blocker in this tier! This one deserves an S rank Imo since it can do almost everything you want it to and it does that very well. No reason to not put this Pokemon on your team.
B to A+
I made a post about this Pokemon right before classic started because I realised how good it is, and now that classic is over we all have seen what it can do. 2hkoes everything in the tier and has access STAB priority and trap is just so good. Only reason why I'm not putting this in S rank is because it dies very quickly from recoil.
A to B+
This Pokemon isn't good enough in this meta. The reason for that is because all the offensive mons either have priority that kills Diglett or are levitate/flying which means that Diglett actually loses to all offensive threats. Diglett also struggles against the common defensive mons right now because it isn't strong enough to break mons like Wartortle for example and Metang often carries Bullet Punch which has a chance to kill. I actually don't think I saw Diglett a single time during classic and thats because Murkrow is a much better trapper.
A- to A
This is the fastest and one of the strongest Pokemon in the tier with perfect coverage moves. Similar to Murkrow this mon can 2hko pretty much everything in the tier, but relies more on predicting what your opponent is gonna do. A well played Kadabra can easily run through your opponents team. Kadabras biggest weakness is getting trapped by pursuit which is a pretty common right now and that is the reason why I think it should be A rank.
A- to A
The best spinner and physical wall in the tier. Water is also a really nice type offensively and defensively against the common physical attackers and the tier in general. Never a bad mon to add on your team since its consistent and does well in pretty much every matchup.
A to A-
Roselia is very good since it can take advantage of Wartortles water type and get up Spikes and its pretty much the only viable defensive grass type. It also has decent matchup against some trends like Seadra and Rain teams. The problem with Roselia right now is that physical attackers are so common and it struggles against the top tier special attackers.
B+C rank changes
B to B+
UR to B+
A to B+
UR to B
UR to B
B+ to B-
B+ to B-
B to B-
C- to C+
B- to C
C- to C
C+ to C-
C to C-
B- to C-
C+ to C-
C to UR
C to UR
C to UR
Don't have enough meta knowledge here, but I think Sneasel should be ranked a bit higher. The speed and power seems really nice for that tier and Pursuit is so nice for Missy and Natu so u can make hazards even more op.
ORAS and SM both seems very fair actually. The only stuff I would change is probably some Pokemon in the lower ranks, but that can be looked deeper at in council chats later probably.
To respond to some of the points raised by Arctic, and just give my thoughts on ORAS in general, I think ORAS is in a decent position right now. It is highly centralised around the Big 3, and Monferno's always going to toe the line between banworthy and just at the peak of banworthy, but nothing is absurdly powerful and there is lots of room for innovation. I think NFEPL 4 will be interesting for ORAS, to see what people tech for the Big 3 and other big threats when incentivised to build, test with others, and win.
To respond to Arctic, I don't think unbanning Servine is ever the play for ORAS. It was banned very early in ORAS development, but Servine objectively has less offensive and defensive counterplay compared to SM, where it avoided a ban mostly by timing and council autoreqs. Offensively, no Haunter, and, to a lesser extent, Z-moves are massive. It reduces both counterplay and luring abilities, and Servines ability to be able to invest fully in defences while still being a massive offensive threat means that strong attackers are needed to beat it.
Defensively, no Alolan Grimer is also massive, and Para being far better in Gen 6 compared to 7 also helps Servine.
At best, freeing Servine would just heavily centralise the meta around itself, Roselia, and soft 'checks', similar to Gen 7 but worse due to fewer options. At worst, it would be massively broken and would require a reban very quickly. It's not the move, especially so close to NFEPL 4.
Unbanning Choke and Pawn is objectively a terrible decision.
Suspecting Monferno, either before or after NFEPL 4, is probably the most reasonable suggestion. Monferno's always toed the line, and I believe this is the 3rd time a Monferno suspect has been discussed in 3 different ORAS metas. I think Monferno is more manageable than it was in Pawn meta, primarily because checks/counters like Duosion, Frillish, Vullaby, Lampent etc can thrive more in current meta, but it's still probably the best mon in the meta. I'd personally prefer to see how the current meta develops during NFEPL 4, where people build, test, innovate etc, compared to individuals where you're far more likely to reuse, and see how the Big 3 are then, and deal with any big problems that arise/still continue to exist, but I'm interested to see what other ppl who play ORAS and council think.
I made a few changes, I dont remember all of them, but here are the more important ones
Marill B- to B
Vullaby A to S
Hippo B to B+
Roselia A- to A
Murkrow should rise?!?!?!?!
Maybe Duosion/Missy to A
Wart B to B-
Ferroseed B+ to B
Cranidos UR to C-
Seadra and Porygon to UR
Vibrava and Pikachu to B-
ORAS BASIC TEAM BUILDING GUIDE (Dont follow this if you like creativity LOL)
STEP 0: ASK 85% for a team
Step 1: "The Big Three" are so good you generally do not want to pass up on them. Monferno Vullaby and Clefairy should almost always be three of your pokemon. You should not choose the sets of these pokemon until you decide on your other three.
Step 2: Add a pokemon that thrives against the big three. Here are some examples.
Last move is normally U-Turn or Dark Pulse. The Item can be Scarf/LifeOrb/Eviolite.
Step 4: Add a way of checking/countering mons well known for beating "The Big Three". A very common pokemon is Electabuzz for checking frog well, also thriving with the lack of pokemon immune to electric in oras. Another really common pokemon is Munchlax as it is a good counter to Frog and Kadabra. Munchlax also switches into electabuzz, even if it will end up losing you momentum.
Step 5: Add a glue pokemon. Hippopotas helps against Volt Switch as well as freeing your Clef/Monf from having to use SR, Hippo also weakens Roselia/Quilladin's Synthesis helping teammates like Electabuzz. This is just one example, make this whatever you think is best for your team.
Step 6: Choose "The Big Three's" Movesets. Generally you should aim for one of clef/vull being a SD monferno answer and the other being a NP monferno answer. Vullaby should almost always use Defog Roost Brave Bird Roost. Clefairy is super dependant on the rest of the teams move choices. You should use Soft-Boiled and then choose from Stealth Rocks, Thunder Wave, Moonblast, Knock Off, Calm Mind, Wish, and Heal Bell. Monferno can be your rocker if you need one, though generally it is not worth using SR Monferno. SD and NP are both great late-game wincons. Scarf is nice for speed control, and CB is nice for immediate power. Specially Defensive Bulk Up has a great match-up against some teams, and SD can even run Slack Off. Taunt Slack Off is a great Stall Breaker. Clefairy and Monferno should try to fill in all the roles your team desires, as they are so versatile.
Hopefully this guide was helpful and hopefully 85 doesnt tell me I dont know how to build good teams, peace.
The ORAS NFE Council have decided to suspect Monferno. Monferno is objectively the best Pokemon in the tier, sporting consistent 70-85% usage in all tours after Machoke was banned. In addition, it has always toed the line between suspectworthy and not suspectworthy, having been argued about multiple times since Machoke was banned last year. As a Pokemon, Monferno boasts unparalleled versatility in the metagame, being able to viably run Choice Band, Choice Scarf, breaker sets on both the physical and special side with Swords Dance/Nasty Plot, priority, and good strong STAB attacks on both the physical and special side, bulkier wincon sets in Bulk Up, Slack Off, Two Attacks sets, and then defensive sets with a variety of utility options such as Taunt, Stealth Rock, Toxic, Encore etc. This huge set versatility, and its naturally respectable Speed, Bulk, and STABs, make it a very centralising and difficult-to-check Pokemon in the current metagame, who is almost required on all teams as any team would be disadvantaged without one.
However, Monferno does not completely lack counterplay. Offensive options such as Lampent and Gabite can wall/check common Monferno sets and take advantage of it, and bulkier Pokemon such as Frillish can check most offensive sets well. Other Pokemon like Staravia, Hippopotas, Duosion, and Chinchou can also situationally check it depending on sets.
Offensively, Pokemon like Kadabra, Frogadier, Electabuzz, Scarf Rufflet, and Gabite can deal with Monferno depending on its set.
However, despite Monferno having some counterplay, it still excels as the biggest threat in the metagame, and is both centralising and oppressive in builder and play.
Therefore, the ORAS NFE council have decided, with the help of community members who play and are active in ORAS NFE, to reach a consensus on Monferno before NFEPL 4.
The suspect process will proceed as follows:
It will be a closed suspect. This means that the only people eligible to vote are the current 7 ORAS NFE council members + members in the community who have been pre-picked to vote in the suspect based on recent and general ORAS activity and involvement.
The 6 people on the rotational council for this vote are: Voltage, Indol, King Leo V, Ho3nConfirm3d, Anime Sans and CrazyStevy
Therefore, 13 people will be allowed to vote. The ban percentage for this vote is 60%, so 8 / 13 ban votes or any equivalent above 60% in the case of Abstains will be required to ban Monferno.
However, to aid in the suspect, and to give people an opportunity to play good ORAS NFE games before the vote commences, there will be one roomtour every day in the NFE room for the next week. These tours are NOT suspect tours, i.e. you will NOT receive voting rights if you win the tour. However, they give people an opportunity to play some ORAS NFE games prior to NFEPL 4 if they are interested in or may play ORAS during the PL, and they give council and rotating council members a final opportunity to play some quality games before making a verdict on Monferno.
The voting period will commence on Sunday. The seven rotating council members will then be invited into the ORAS NFE discord, then there will be three days for everyone to vote and argue. The result will likely be announced on Thursday 18th June.
Even though this is a closed suspect, I encourage anyone interested in ORAS NFE to partake in the discussion by making a post, taking part in the roomtours or taking part in any Discord discussions. If you want to argue with me, feel free to tag me in the NFE Oldgens channel or we can even bring back a Monferno Meltdown VC if you want. The result of this suspect will be incredibly important for the metagame in both NFEPL 4 and after, so I encourage anyone who cares to engage in some way.
Sample teams can be found here
Arctic has also provided some additional teams you can use and try out here, cheers arctic
Voltage also made a post-Classic team dump which included some ORAS NFE teams, which can be found here, cheers Voltage
Before I get into this post I want thank everyone that helped build, test, and play ADV in its early stages. Thank you for making this a reality and I can't wait to further the meta in Room Tours and potential Old Gen tours and perhaps even future NFEPLs.
ADV NFE: Personal Top Picks
I wanted to start off ADV discussion by mentioning some of my favorite Pokemon to build with currently and what they do for the meta as a whole. Please keep in mind that I personally sway towards more balance and bulky play-styles which is why I've picked the Pokemon on this list. They aren't in any particular order just. Enjoy!
Metang is easily the best pokemon in ADV thanks to its set versatility, defensive typing, fantastic movepool, and its blend of offensive and defensive stats. Metang can be found on almost every team as a reliable screen setter, wall, or offensive tank. For these reasons, Metang finds itself as being one of the most splash-able Pokemon in ADV. It's also acts as great glue thanks to the sheer amount of utility it can provide with its access to Light Screen and Reflect. Below I'll be posting some of my personally most used Metang sets and their roles for their team. There are others not listed however which can be found in the sample sets resource.
Screen setter Metang can fit on a lot of different balance and offense builds as a key Core Pokemon. Its access to screens allow it to choose what Pokemon it wants to support such as Abra, Seadra, Sealeo, etc. Basically any of the tiers offensive Pokemon and breakers appreciate taking reduced damage that come from the respected screen that is set up.
Metang @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Meteor Mash
- Shadow Ball
Choice Band Metang is a decent secondary breaker thanks to its defenses and access strong Physical STAB most notably Meteor Mash and Earthquake. If I run Choice Band Metang I prefer running it alongside another breaker since Explosion is a move I really like to click this generation.
Metang @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
This is the final set I recommend trying out. Originally, during Haunter meta it was supposed to force lead Haunter out but if Haunter hit Hypnosis you basically lost your Metang so it ended up being a 60-40 situation. However, I'd argue that this Metang set is still worth using thanks to its ability to threaten other common leads such as Omanyte and Grovyle. Addtionally, most opponents expect Metang to be more physical so a STAB Psychic can really throw them for a loop when they switch in their Bayleef or Fat Bat (bulky Golbat). Addtionally, Metang is able to Pursuit Trap Abra assuming Metang is at full health since Fire Punch is a 2HKO.
Ivysaur is my favorite Pokemon to just splash on Balance teams thanks to its fairy balanced base stats (60/62/63/80/80/60), its access to reliable and passive recovery in Synthesis and Leech Seed, as well as being able to threaten Pokemon with its fairly mixed STAB. Additionally, Its typing is fantastic defensively thanks to the very limited Psychic users we have in the tier as well as. Its ability to OHKO Abra with Sludge Bomb while being 2HKO'd by Abra's Psychic is arguably one of Ivysaur's greatest traits.
Ivysaur acts as one of the tiers best Specially Defensive walls and this all thanks to its mixed movepool and its constant recovery from Leftovers, Synthesis, Leech Seed, and Giga Drain. I find my self clicking Leech Seed more often than not when forcing switches with Ivysaur which allows it to become a decent defensive pivot. If you're feeling really Spicy you can run Curse over Giga Drain but I have yet to see Ivysaur be a successful win-con in this meta.
Sealeo is another favorable Pokemon for a lot of teams in the ADV NFE metagame thanks to its fairly balanced stats (90/60/70/75/70/45), access to strong STAB, and its overall overall THICC HP. These qualities make it a great pick for both offense and balance teams alike as its able to threaten Pokemon like Golbat, Abra, and even Metang. Sealeo is able to pick and choose what it wants to check thanks to its versatility when it comes to EVs. With a high HP and balanced defenses it can more easily customize what it whats to wall or have an easier time removing.
This is arguably Sealeo's best set right now thanks to how much it can threaten with its STAB. It can fit on Balance as a primary Special Attacker or it can fit on Offense as a tank. Sealeo can choose between HP Grass or HP fire depending on what the team would rather have checked. I personally always run HP Grass to check opposing Water-types such as Seadra, Wartortle, Marshtomp, and other Sealeo. HP Fire is really only used specifically for Metang.
Sealeo's defensive sets are more so run on defensive teams to better check Abra or Metang depending on what defensive EVs you focus on. Balance and defensive teams in general are susceptible to being taken advantage of by full Baton Pass teams, so Roar and Encore are very useful for shutting these teams down.
Golbat sits at A+ on the VR because its a beast in every role it takes on. Its defensive typing, fantastic Speed tier, and great base stats set it apart from the rest of the meta. Golbat is not only a great defensive Pokemon that can be put on a majority of balance team builds but also a great a Offensive threat when equipped with Choice Band.
Fat bat is arguably Golbat's best set thanks to its overwhelming Speed and its decent HP. This coupled with its Defensive typing and its immunity to Spikes make it a fantastic pick for Balance teams. It can threaten most Metang sets with HP Ground and it threatens Grass-types like Ivysaur and Bayleef with its STAB. Addtionally, Aerial Ace is can help weaken or shut down Choice Band Machoke.
I've used Choice Band Golbat a few times and I haven't been that impressed with it but I think it has its merit due to it being the fastest Choice Band Pokemon ADV NFE has. Quick Attack is for Abra specifically and Giga Drain is so you aren't walled by Marshtomp. Pokemon that run Protect can give Golbat an issue as they can scout what move it clicks and go into the respected resist.
(Art by my gf except I poorly edited the sign. Post format stolen from ZU)
NFE is a relatively new OM that has come into fruition, but that hasn't stopped us from playing NFE in older gens! The oldgen community created multiple resources like sample teams and VRs for these metagames, and this project will consist of NFE room tournaments that showcase these generations. The tours will be on a schedule for the next four weeks and occur on the weekends on the times seen below. Check out the leaderboard I'll be updating, as there's also a grand prize for whoever has the most points: a free art commission of your favorite oldgen NFE Pokemon (from the same artist as above), and a custom discord tag in the NFE discord! See below for the rules and schedule, and good luck to everyone playing.
SM Tournament 1: 2 pm GMT -4
SM Tournament 2: 2:30 pm GMT-4
SM Tournament 3: 3 pm GMT-4
In the event that tournaments go past the scheduled time, the next scheduled tour will start immediately after the previous tour ends.
Rules and Scoring:
The scoring system used for official room tours will be the same as what is used in Smogon Tour, Classic and Grand Slam:
Rounds 1-3: Winning in the first 3 rounds gives you 1 point per win.
Round 4 and above: Winning Round 4 and every subsequent round will give you 2 points per win.
Same ruling as Smogon Tour for winning off byes:
"When getting a bye instead of an actual opponent to defeat, it is important to note that you won't be awarded your point(s) for said round until you've won the following round. If, for example, you get a bye for Round 1 and win in Round 2, then you'll get the points for both rounds after winning your round 2 game. However, if you lose your Round 2 game in that same scenario, you won't be awarded any points for that [room tournament], because you didn't actually win in Round 1 either. "
Any alts used for these tours must be identified (in the room and not posting here) and you must give your smogon account in order to get points in the sheet. Only one PS username per person for the leaderboard, and no two PS accounts can add up leaderboard points for the same user.
The winner will receive a free art commission of their favorite old gen NFE Pokemon and a custom discord tag showing that they won.
With an 8-5 Ban to DNB vote, equating to a ban percentage of 62% (rounded), Monferno has reached the 60% ban threshold and is therefore banned from ORAS NFE. Its incredible set versatility, each with their own mostly non-overlapping limited counterplay, was too much for the metagame to handle.
For a breakdown on votes, see below. Some voters also chose to provide reasoning along with their vote, which can be read by clicking the vote.
6 rotational council members, who have shown good activity in ORAS NFE recently via tournaments or challenges, were also invited to vote on the suspect. Their votes (and reasoning, if given) can be found below:
CrazyStevy: Do Not Ban
King Leo V: Ban
Anime Sans: Do Not Ban
Thank you to anyone who participated in this suspect process in any way. Very much appreciated. Current goal of the ORAS NFE council is likely to update our resources in light of this big meta change and make sure ORAS NFE is in a good state before NFEPL IV.
Because of the recent Monferno ban, ORAS council is planning on updating the VR in the near future, as well as add new sample teams. So if you guys have any VR nominations or potential sample teams, feel free to post them soon!