So um, whats this Zapdos discussion supposed to achieve?
Fact #1: Zapdos is mediocre in OU. Sure it has niche value in checking some threats like SE less Breloom (and you need Sleep Clause to be active), RP Landorus (Special), and Scizor, but by and large its not that great in OU. Period. I don't want to see posts saying Zapdos is amazing nor do i want to see posts which say its "utter shit" since it has niche value in checking a few things, Its mediocre and thats that.
Fact #2. In a 1v1 scenario Zapdos will beat Torn. In an actual battle, Zapdos countering Tornadus-T is a little suspect (provided Stealth Rock is up) since Tornadus can U-Turn a couple of times forcing you to bring Zapdos in and take SR damage, and then facing a Terrakion or whatever the Tornadus-T user switches in. Then it can eventually go for the 2KO (after its U-Turns twice or so) via Hurricane. Don't bring up the argument of "but I can predict the U-Turn of Torn-T" because the Risk / Reward is too high. Sure, you can bring in your Breloom or something on a U-Turn, but tbh if that happened id be more amused that you risked your Breloom on a 50/50 when you had a better option in Zapdos. So, a good Zapdos player might be able to beat a shitty Torn player, and a good Torn player will be able to beat Zapdos against a shitty Zapdos player. If both players are good it comes down to the skill and judgement shown on both sides although personally id still reckon Tornadus-T edges out Zapdos if both players are skillful. ALso remember that being SR weak, Zapdos has much more of a chance to get luckfucked by Hurricane, which has a 30% chance of inflicting confusion. This is BAD news to Zapdos since if it fails to Roost (via confusion hax), then Torn wins. Jirachi has a little bit of leeway (although not much) but Zapdos really hates the confusion hax.
Point #1. Even working on the assumption that Zapdos does counter Tornadus-T... so what? This thread has recently been full up with Zapdos and Stunfish suggestions, which only
further the pro ubers argument. If you are seriously harping on about Zapdos being the amazing counter to Tornadus-T doesn't it say something about how hard Tornadus-T is to handle that you are using shit like Stunfish to beat this thing? I remember people brought up Rotom-H as an awesome counter / check to Genesect. Is Rotom-H medocre? Yes, did it stop Genesect from becoming uber? No. Basically, if you want to convicne people that Tornadus-T is OU, you might want to bring up OU viable counters (no Rotom-W does not directly counter) or true a new line of argument. Just a thought.
Lastly a few quick points directed at Vemane -_-
1. Your Jirachi calc is incorrect and misleading, Iron Head will do more. Don't give me this bullshit about Thunder for the "60% para chance" or whatever, you are testing a pokemons damage output, thats it. Don't mislead by calcing Jirachi using a non STAB move when it has one available.
2. Don't bring Latias into it, You know damn well Latias runs a CM set which actually boosts its damage output over Zapdos eventually. Sure initially it hits harder than Zapdos, but Latias isn't "spamming" and uninvested Dragon Pulse, its going to set up Calm Mind instead. Your comparison is flawed (again).
But I was referring, in general, just how weak all of these "fantastic" pokemon are that often serve as special walls/pivots, yet people are calling zapdos complete shit because of how "weak" it is.
Then they are incorrect, as its not weak, most quality players can tell you this. However it is poor against non rain teams as Sun and Sand both have excellent weapons to use against Zapdos. For example Sun is known for having powerhouses such as Victini and Volcarona, even Ninetales can throw out a WoW which with Stealth Rock can really hamper its ability to check Venusaur. Sand has the powerful Terrakion (one of the most threatening pokemon in the game and defiantly something you don't want to give free switchs too), as well as Stone Edge being more common (from Tar and yes, Sand Force Landorus (RP is more common but Sand Force is still seen (57% vs 42%) and utterly destroys Zapdos). Zapdos is even commonly using Thunder in your calculations and posts, making it weather reliant and even more of a handicap vs Sun and Sand. Zapdos has use against Rain, no-one disputes this, its potentially strong vs Rain (although if you lack Heat Wave ur spike / Leech fodder for Ferrothorn and if you lack Roar shit like Sub CM Jirachi is going to set up). but outside of rain, yea, its not as good.
Basically, can people stop crapping on Zapdos (calling it weak is a bad argument) or overhyping it (seriously, some of these posts make Zapdos sound like its the fucking saviour of mankind or something). Lets call it what is is, a mediocre pokemon in OU that has a fair matchup against rain. Lets move the Zapdos discussion on, its been discussed to death and encouraging shitty posts by both sides of the Ban / Don't ban Torn discussion.
Ta
