fixed better; sorry zebraiken
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np: NU Stage 0 - For What It's Worth
- Thread starter tennisace
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fixed better; sorry zebraiken
I think we're overlooking something: Slowking is Sawks best counter. Scarf Sawk doesn't give a shit about the newcomers outside of Victreebel in Sun and Crawdaunt with, like, 3 DDs. Not saying its going to be godly and broken as all hell, but I see it rising once again after the tier shift. Thoughts?
It depends what he locks himself into like all scarfed Pokemon, Ghosts are immune to his stabs, Misdreavus could probably switch into anything and burn him, not saying he wont be a huge threat but counters should exist. Hypno is actually a pretty decent wall as well who can deal with fighting types and wish/protect stall. His defense and special defense are comparable to Slowking.
uhhh, definitely not. slowking is a decent way to deal with it, but hell no its not the best counter. that title belongs to eviolite misdreavus, who takes something like 33% from a banded sawk stone edge and fuck all from the rest of its moves (toxic? heal bell). phys def musharna would be your next best bet. none of its best counters are leaving. i'd expect the rise of stuff like pinsir, leafeon, and cinccino, who basically lose all of the faster shit (swellow, scarf braviary, and scolipede) and also lose steels in klinklang/magneton and also lose physical walls in rhydon, etc. also hypno is mediocre at best.
Baton Pass chains with Smeargle and Ninjask are starting to get really annoying
If baton pass is getting annoying, just get a phazer of hazer, NU has plenty. While I agree that Smeargle might be broken due to Spore and Baton Pass, I dont think Gorebyss or Mesprit are broken. Gorebyss is easily countered by Pokemon like Slowking and Mantine while Mesprit can be taken out by a pursuit user. After using Ninjask, it never seems to pull its weight, it desperately need spin support and has terrible stats not to mention that it attracts phazers which it is helpless against.
BP chains are pretty easy to stop with phazers / Haze / Taunt / powerful attacks / crits.
Gorebyss is going to be very broken. Without Slowking and Lanturn, not much can take its hits, and at +2 it's faster than all the common Scarfers. I can completely see it (and Huntail) being banned.
Mesprit... SubCM Mesprit is just so absurdly good, and it gets even better when Klinklang goes and it gets to use Ice Beam (dealing with Altaria, Zweilous, Cacturne and Torterra, its few real checks before). The problem is that there aren't really any good phazers that can take its hits, nor are there any special walls it can't set up on, and no Pursuit user actually beats it. Adamant LO Skuntank's Pursuit does 39.6% - 46.7% to max HP Mesprit, while Mesprit can do 42.2% - 49.7% back with Ice Beam / T-Bolt - an easy 2HKO after Rocks or likely after just the recoil. Absol is a similar story, except it doesn't usually carry Pursuit at all (or it's Choiced), so Mesprit can just shave off half its HP while having its Sub broken, then switch out.
I don't want to talk too much about SubCM Mesprit though, because I don't want it to get banned and I definitely don't want anyone else to use it.
Probably the mon that is going to benefit the most from the tier changes, though, is Leafeon. Magneton, Klinklang, Scolipede, Braviary and Swellow are all going, leaving it a free run at the tier. Discuss.
Gorebyss is going to be very broken. Without Slowking and Lanturn, not much can take its hits, and at +2 it's faster than all the common Scarfers. I can completely see it (and Huntail) being banned.
Mesprit... SubCM Mesprit is just so absurdly good, and it gets even better when Klinklang goes and it gets to use Ice Beam (dealing with Altaria, Zweilous, Cacturne and Torterra, its few real checks before). The problem is that there aren't really any good phazers that can take its hits, nor are there any special walls it can't set up on, and no Pursuit user actually beats it. Adamant LO Skuntank's Pursuit does 39.6% - 46.7% to max HP Mesprit, while Mesprit can do 42.2% - 49.7% back with Ice Beam / T-Bolt - an easy 2HKO after Rocks or likely after just the recoil. Absol is a similar story, except it doesn't usually carry Pursuit at all (or it's Choiced), so Mesprit can just shave off half its HP while having its Sub broken, then switch out.
I don't want to talk too much about SubCM Mesprit though, because I don't want it to get banned and I definitely don't want anyone else to use it.
Probably the mon that is going to benefit the most from the tier changes, though, is Leafeon. Magneton, Klinklang, Scolipede, Braviary and Swellow are all going, leaving it a free run at the tier. Discuss.
It seems like you are all over looking the best byss counter- shedinja ;)
Seriously, depending on the type of his HP either Mantine or Quagsire can check it, scarf rotom-S also outspeeds by 1 point (cheers trolly speed) and 1hkoes it. Not that its not fantastic, its amazing, but there are a coupleof checks.
Leading on from ice-eyes, subcm mesprit is completely deadly.
Never seen leafeon used but yeah it sounds like it will be great.
All these mons are checked by shedinja <3 looks like shedinja as a wall may be possible :3
Seriously, depending on the type of his HP either Mantine or Quagsire can check it, scarf rotom-S also outspeeds by 1 point (cheers trolly speed) and 1hkoes it. Not that its not fantastic, its amazing, but there are a coupleof checks.
Leading on from ice-eyes, subcm mesprit is completely deadly.
Never seen leafeon used but yeah it sounds like it will be great.
All these mons are checked by shedinja <3 looks like shedinja as a wall may be possible :3
I am fully aware of that, i wasnt being entirely serious.
I've seen a few, Quagsire deals with most of them.
Gorebyss is pretty good but it can't hurt Lanturn. It has two options: take a chance at getting a crit HP Grass or switch out. Throh also takes a hit from it and forces it out. It's definitely top-tier NU but I really don't think there is anything ban worthy in the tier. That's why I love this tier so much.
Mesprit is like the Mew of NU. It can pull off a whole bunch of sets but none of those sets are really overpowering on their own. The issue is just figuring out which set you're dealing with. Is it Trick? Weather setup? Sub CM? Screens?
Mesprit is like the Mew of NU. It can pull off a whole bunch of sets but none of those sets are really overpowering on their own. The issue is just figuring out which set you're dealing with. Is it Trick? Weather setup? Sub CM? Screens?
I have been finding Specially Defensive Camerupt to be a pretty good pokemon in this current metagame. It gets an amazing ability in Solid Rock and completely walls Magneton(they carry HP Grass or Fire most of the time and HP Ground is a 4HKO anyways) as well as Magmortar(only move to hit Camerupt is focus blast which is 4HKO and very unreliable) who it can set up Stealth Rocks on.
It's main problem is its lack of recovery however the core of Camerupt, Roselia, and Alomomola patches that problem. Alomomola walls a lot of physical threats as well as passes wishes to Camerupt who can switch in on things that threaten Alomomola such as Magneton to receive the wish. Roselia finishes the F/W/G core as well as supports with Leech Seed, Spikes, soaking up Toxic Spikes, and being a Status absorber.
It's main problem is its lack of recovery however the core of Camerupt, Roselia, and Alomomola patches that problem. Alomomola walls a lot of physical threats as well as passes wishes to Camerupt who can switch in on things that threaten Alomomola such as Magneton to receive the wish. Roselia finishes the F/W/G core as well as supports with Leech Seed, Spikes, soaking up Toxic Spikes, and being a Status absorber.
i just realized with the tier shifts coming up, a lot of stuff that stops LINOONE is moving up
i can see linoone being extremely devastating with the right team support, like dual screens + memento gardevoir. also i have to agree that gorebyss is going to be broken after the tier shifts, theres really not much that can stop it after slowking and lanturn leave.
i can see linoone being extremely devastating with the right team support, like dual screens + memento gardevoir. also i have to agree that gorebyss is going to be broken after the tier shifts, theres really not much that can stop it after slowking and lanturn leave.
Gorebyss will be banned from the tier, like, right after the tier shift. You're right, there's literally nothing that can counter it. is revenge killing it out of the question though? the problem though is Rain, making Gorebyss outspeed everything as well...
I'm not gonna be here next round if Gorebyss stays
I'm not gonna be here next round if Gorebyss stays
I'm just going to leave this here so none of you are completely surprised by my thought process come January:
I'm opposed to quickbans in general. I'm coming up with a council-like process with Oglemi and I fully intend to stick to it. This includes a minimum of like 2 weeks at least to let people ladder and fully try out whatever new toys we have and or adapt to whatever we lose from the tier. If you think that Gorebyss is broken in the new tier right now, you are sadly misguided since you haven't played the new NU and don't know what's dropping/leaving! So please, don't be quick to pass judgement, because I sure won't be. This isn't to say I'm opposed to banning things at all; I play on the ladder too so I do know the metagame very well. If it seems broken to a majority of people when the time comes, we'll discuss banning it. If its just a few people calling for a ban, I'll be more hesitant to do anything hastily. Regardless of what everyone's opinion is initially, I'm going to give the metagame some time to sink in and develop before making any decisions. This goes for basically everything: especially after bans.
^
We really don't know what's going to actually drop and what's actually not going to drop. Also, I'm sure people will adapt by having revenge killers, priority, or just all-out offense to prevent Gorebyss from never ever setting up the first place. Maybe some set-up bait type walls like Regirock will carry Thunder Wave so that the rest of the team doesn't get mauled. Well, that is certainly 'overcentralizing,' but that's really no reason to ban it. It needs to be timid or it gets beaten by a lot more scarfers. It needs Life Orb or it will be unable to get past certain threats. I think theorymonning is great and all, but we literally have a week until we can actually see the metagame with our own eyes. We should leave our judgment until we actually play with Gorebyss. Really, if it does turn out blatantly broken, it's not like we'll have trouble banning it.
We really don't know what's going to actually drop and what's actually not going to drop. Also, I'm sure people will adapt by having revenge killers, priority, or just all-out offense to prevent Gorebyss from never ever setting up the first place. Maybe some set-up bait type walls like Regirock will carry Thunder Wave so that the rest of the team doesn't get mauled. Well, that is certainly 'overcentralizing,' but that's really no reason to ban it. It needs to be timid or it gets beaten by a lot more scarfers. It needs Life Orb or it will be unable to get past certain threats. I think theorymonning is great and all, but we literally have a week until we can actually see the metagame with our own eyes. We should leave our judgment until we actually play with Gorebyss. Really, if it does turn out blatantly broken, it's not like we'll have trouble banning it.
Gorebyss is shut down completely by Amoongus, Lantern, etc.
I don't understand what the problem is.
I don't understand what the problem is.
This holds true for basically everything discussed here and over the course of the next few days. We can talk up how good things are gonna be all we want but at the same time, the stuff we assume to be moving up very well might not be (and we might get different mons dropping down, too!). All that can be said is we still have no idea what the metagame's gonna look like until all the shifts have been finalized. After all, there's a possibility we get lucky and everything is all wonderful and balanced post-shifts. :D
edit: also lol ^, amoonguss is mauled by ice beam after hazards and lanturn is one of the most likely to leave
The problem isn't so much Gorebyss as a smashpasser or sweeper on its own, but the combination of Gorebyss+Huntail, which can overwhelm a lot of teams with only a little bit of support.
It is? Im pretty sure its just byss on its own...
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