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Metagame np: NU Stage 11 - I'm A Star [SAWK is BANNED]
- Thread starter Raseri
- Start date
- Status
On mobile now but will edit in some potentional sets for the new drops. Just like everyone else I'm obviously hyped for zard, rock slide should be common on scep now. Omastar is a cool hazard setter that can pressure Xatu.
Unfortunately, I can see Lanturn becoming better then it was in the previous meta, being one of the best checks to specs zard.
Unfortunately, I can see Lanturn becoming better then it was in the previous meta, being one of the best checks to specs zard.
omastar is really good and crazy versatile. thanks to its ability to set spikes+rocks beat xatu while having amazing offensive presence and typing (unlike crustle lol) and is really the saving grace for hyper offense, while it can also run a really fuckin scary shell smash set to trash offense lacking a scarfer thanks to its resilience to priority. definitely a huge threat that im excited to see impact things
havent used zard but its a bitch to face and switch into zzz
hitmonchan has gotten a lot better this meta, being able to revenge a boosted oma and spin away hazards for zard is a huge boon. i mean its no sawk but its definitely the best its been since fletch (never forget)
mixed scep doesnt really need to run eq anymore since skunk gets more and more obscure by the daily and using rock slide is huge to hit zard; this and the prevelence of omastar is pretty much the nail in the coffin for scyther
garbodor has definitely fallen out of favor and tbh its just not as good as omastar or weezing in its roles, altho it does appreciate eq scep falling out of favor :0
not a lengthy post cause mobile but just wanted to get my thoughts out there
I also think Lanturn will get much better in checking the two new drops very well, especially resisting both of zard's stabs, and shuca already being a moderately viable item on lanturn allowing it to deal with earth power/eq respectively. Omastar having triple hazards is great for hyper offensive teams that use it as a suicide lead, as it beats xatu with ice beam/ap/scald. It's access to SS makes it shit on offense, especially ones lacking scarfers designed to beat sceptile, also having such a high base defense stat assists it in not getting thrashed by priority.
I did a few test matches and found out zard is a pain in the ass to switch in to, and it has roost to keep itself healthy on life orb sets. The ability to run wisp dd sets is also interesting as it allows charizard to set up on physical sceptile, skuntank and others a lot easier, as they will have their atk crippled. Charti even sounds like a Sceptile lure, because Rock Slide is going to become very popular with sceptile outspeeding and kill and whatnot.
Also mixed garb got another lure :O
I did a few test matches and found out zard is a pain in the ass to switch in to, and it has roost to keep itself healthy on life orb sets. The ability to run wisp dd sets is also interesting as it allows charizard to set up on physical sceptile, skuntank and others a lot easier, as they will have their atk crippled. Charti even sounds like a Sceptile lure, because Rock Slide is going to become very popular with sceptile outspeeding and kill and whatnot.
Also mixed garb got another lure :O
Generic most splashable Zard set is probably LO 4 attacks with STAB+EQ+filler of choice. HP Electric/Flamethrower? Roost is an option too.
Really looking forward to these two drops and what mons they'll bring to the top by merit of them being top dogs in the tier. Grumpig was already getting some love, it's a lil better with these drops but it also has to watch out for surprise physical Zard sets. Lolbro mentioned wisp DD set sounds interesting actually, I'd like to try it out tbh.
Also edgelord shiny Zard is sick
Anyone have an interest in this mon?
I can see it having SOME potential as more choiced mons are used. What I have in mind is an OTR set that can have some use when it forces a switch on something that can't do much to it. I'm thinking Pyroar, Combusken, specs Zard? You'd usually run LO on an OTR set but adding Eviolite on can save you an extra 15-25% HP when taking a resisted hit. Idk it's probably [most likely] shit but thought it was worth mentioning. Skuntank decreasing in usage helps a lil too. Kinda sucks that Steelix outslows you even if you run a negative nature and 0 IVs.
Really looking forward to these two drops and what mons they'll bring to the top by merit of them being top dogs in the tier. Grumpig was already getting some love, it's a lil better with these drops but it also has to watch out for surprise physical Zard sets. Lolbro mentioned wisp DD set sounds interesting actually, I'd like to try it out tbh.
Also edgelord shiny Zard is sick
Anyone have an interest in this mon?
I can see it having SOME potential as more choiced mons are used. What I have in mind is an OTR set that can have some use when it forces a switch on something that can't do much to it. I'm thinking Pyroar, Combusken, specs Zard? You'd usually run LO on an OTR set but adding Eviolite on can save you an extra 15-25% HP when taking a resisted hit. Idk it's probably [most likely] shit but thought it was worth mentioning. Skuntank decreasing in usage helps a lil too. Kinda sucks that Steelix outslows you even if you run a negative nature and 0 IVs.
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No, lolbro, he didn't, it was a bw2 set. lol
Anyway, I don't really think 4 attacks zard is a very good set due to the rocks weakness+omastar+no amazing hazard control in nu, it seems like it would get worn down way to quickly, require even more hazard control then roost zard would already, and with the fact that the meta is speeding up, and rock slide sceptile potentially coming thru as a revenge killer for any non-memed up, charti zards, modest choice scarf charizard could find it's way on to many a team, for being extremely powerful, and having excellente coverage, whilst remaining a thorn in offense's side, being able to revenge kill everything not above scarf base 100s.
Speaking of scarfers 100> base speed.
Tauros (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Filler
I haven't really used this set much, but it is an amazing revenge killer, being able to revenge kill +2 timid omastar, and +2 ada barb, making it probably top 5 revenge killers in my opinion, as well as having intimidate utility to pivot into weaker coverage moves, and having the adamant nature to close the power gap w/ LO set, Scarf Tauros is a pokemon I foresee becoming an excellent revenge killer in an increasingly fast metagame
Anyway, I don't really think 4 attacks zard is a very good set due to the rocks weakness+omastar+no amazing hazard control in nu, it seems like it would get worn down way to quickly, require even more hazard control then roost zard would already, and with the fact that the meta is speeding up, and rock slide sceptile potentially coming thru as a revenge killer for any non-memed up, charti zards, modest choice scarf charizard could find it's way on to many a team, for being extremely powerful, and having excellente coverage, whilst remaining a thorn in offense's side, being able to revenge kill everything not above scarf base 100s.
Speaking of scarfers 100> base speed.
Tauros (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Filler
I haven't really used this set much, but it is an amazing revenge killer, being able to revenge kill +2 timid omastar, and +2 ada barb, making it probably top 5 revenge killers in my opinion, as well as having intimidate utility to pivot into weaker coverage moves, and having the adamant nature to close the power gap w/ LO set, Scarf Tauros is a pokemon I foresee becoming an excellent revenge killer in an increasingly fast metagame
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Some sets that I think will be some of the better options for Zard, want to play around with Oma more before I speak on it, it can run some cool hazard stacking sets or a really scary Shell Smash set
Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Electric]
- Flamethrower / Overheat
Specs zard lacks a solid switch-in bar Lanturn really, all other "switch-ins" can be predicted and smashed by a coverage move. The speed tier is decent allowing it to be a hit n' run like attacker that will be really effective in this meta.
Charizard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 32 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flamethrower / Overheat
- Focus Blast / HP Electric / HP Grass
- Air Slash
Zard has a really cool speed tier that can allow it to be an effective scarfer. The speed allows it to outpace Ludicolo in rain. It can also be a good check to smash Barb which seems to be hot in this meta. Scarf outpaces Barb at +2 along with common scarfers like Jynx and Rotom. Zard can also revenge kill a ton of things. It outpaces a lot of setup mons at +1, Lilligant, Viv, Gorrebyss, Huntail, this thing is a beast.
Charizard @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Focus Blast / HP Electric / HP Grass
- Roost
LO 3 atks zard, like every other zard, can hit extremely hard, and can Roost can let it heal up versus fatter things. Roost can also be cool to heal up if you are forced to switch into rocks.
Charizard @ Sitrus Berry / No item
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Roost / Flare Blitz
One of the really cool things about zard is that its sets for the most part share different counters. Zard hits crazy zard hard after a SD. Like someone mentioned I can see Shuca Lanturn becoming good being able to take any hit at +2 and revenge with a stab move of its choice.
I can also see 4 atks mixed with like eq being cool also. DD seems rly mediocre imo bz dd + acro is illegal but like dd wisp or dd flare blitz eq roost or just 3 atks can put in some work
Not much to say about all the sets bz they are really self explanatory, but zard will be a monster.
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Electric]
- Flamethrower / Overheat
Specs zard lacks a solid switch-in bar Lanturn really, all other "switch-ins" can be predicted and smashed by a coverage move. The speed tier is decent allowing it to be a hit n' run like attacker that will be really effective in this meta.
Charizard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 32 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flamethrower / Overheat
- Focus Blast / HP Electric / HP Grass
- Air Slash
Zard has a really cool speed tier that can allow it to be an effective scarfer. The speed allows it to outpace Ludicolo in rain. It can also be a good check to smash Barb which seems to be hot in this meta. Scarf outpaces Barb at +2 along with common scarfers like Jynx and Rotom. Zard can also revenge kill a ton of things. It outpaces a lot of setup mons at +1, Lilligant, Viv, Gorrebyss, Huntail, this thing is a beast.
Charizard @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Focus Blast / HP Electric / HP Grass
- Roost
LO 3 atks zard, like every other zard, can hit extremely hard, and can Roost can let it heal up versus fatter things. Roost can also be cool to heal up if you are forced to switch into rocks.
Charizard @ Sitrus Berry / No item
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Roost / Flare Blitz
One of the really cool things about zard is that its sets for the most part share different counters. Zard hits crazy zard hard after a SD. Like someone mentioned I can see Shuca Lanturn becoming good being able to take any hit at +2 and revenge with a stab move of its choice.
I can also see 4 atks mixed with like eq being cool also. DD seems rly mediocre imo bz dd + acro is illegal but like dd wisp or dd flare blitz eq roost or just 3 atks can put in some work
Not much to say about all the sets bz they are really self explanatory, but zard will be a monster.
Everyone and their mother seem to be hyping up Char, so i figured i'd give some love to the fossil and talk about some of the impacts i think Omastar will have on the meta.
Omastar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Icy Wind / Hidden Power Electric
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
Lead Omastar is something I'm really excited for. Unlike Lead Crustle, Omastar can pressure just about every spinner in the tier with STAB Scald, and has an easier time against Xatu as Icy Wind slows Xatu down on the switch, leaving it in Scald range and Omastar free to stack hazards. Hidden Power Electric is a neat option over Icy Wind, as Scald is already does well over half to Xatu, and HP Electric allows you to surprise Mantine and Pelipper that would otherwise wall Omastar and Defog on it at will. Omastar also gives us another user of Toxic Spikes besides like Garb and Weezing, which is really cool as we all know how devastating T-Spikes can be for certain builds. Recently, Balance and Bulky Offense have by far been the dominating play style in NU, but Omastar gives Hyper Offense and Offense in general a new toy to play with that I can see really leading to a surge in Offensive builds.
Omastar @ White Herb / Shuca Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Ice Beam
- Ancient Power / Earth Power / Hidden Power Electric
Shell Smash Omastar is going to be a threat. As you can see by the set I posted above, SS Omastar will have a lot of variety in not only the Item it can hold, but also the moves it can run. Omastar can also afford to run a Modest nature as it still gets the jump on Swellow/Sceptile at +2. SS Omastar works somewhat similarly to SS Barb, as you can essentially choose your checks and counters. If Lanturn is a problem for your team than Earth Power is a great coverage option to allow Omastar to bust through it, if Bulky Waters such as Mantine and Pelipper give your team issues than Ancient Power is awesome coverage, lastly if you want a more reliable way to hit Waters (outside of Lanturn), HP Electric is a decent option.
Just as a general metagame note, I think Scarfers in particular will see an uptick in usage as the meta is likely to trend towards Offense at least slightly more than prior. With Offense, comes faster less bulky teams which Choice Scarfers thrive against. Hopefully i'll edit be able to edit in some replays later of how Omastar functions!
Edit: NP song is amazing for once god bless your soul Raseri
Omastar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Icy Wind / Hidden Power Electric
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
Lead Omastar is something I'm really excited for. Unlike Lead Crustle, Omastar can pressure just about every spinner in the tier with STAB Scald, and has an easier time against Xatu as Icy Wind slows Xatu down on the switch, leaving it in Scald range and Omastar free to stack hazards. Hidden Power Electric is a neat option over Icy Wind, as Scald is already does well over half to Xatu, and HP Electric allows you to surprise Mantine and Pelipper that would otherwise wall Omastar and Defog on it at will. Omastar also gives us another user of Toxic Spikes besides like Garb and Weezing, which is really cool as we all know how devastating T-Spikes can be for certain builds. Recently, Balance and Bulky Offense have by far been the dominating play style in NU, but Omastar gives Hyper Offense and Offense in general a new toy to play with that I can see really leading to a surge in Offensive builds.
Omastar @ White Herb / Shuca Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Ice Beam
- Ancient Power / Earth Power / Hidden Power Electric
Shell Smash Omastar is going to be a threat. As you can see by the set I posted above, SS Omastar will have a lot of variety in not only the Item it can hold, but also the moves it can run. Omastar can also afford to run a Modest nature as it still gets the jump on Swellow/Sceptile at +2. SS Omastar works somewhat similarly to SS Barb, as you can essentially choose your checks and counters. If Lanturn is a problem for your team than Earth Power is a great coverage option to allow Omastar to bust through it, if Bulky Waters such as Mantine and Pelipper give your team issues than Ancient Power is awesome coverage, lastly if you want a more reliable way to hit Waters (outside of Lanturn), HP Electric is a decent option.
Just as a general metagame note, I think Scarfers in particular will see an uptick in usage as the meta is likely to trend towards Offense at least slightly more than prior. With Offense, comes faster less bulky teams which Choice Scarfers thrive against. Hopefully i'll edit be able to edit in some replays later of how Omastar functions!
Edit: NP song is amazing for once god bless your soul Raseri
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Omastar @ Life Orb / Shuca Berry
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Ice Beam
- Ancient Power / Hidden Power Electric
Jumpluff
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Acrobatics
- Memento
- U-turn
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Ice Beam
- Ancient Power / Hidden Power Electric
Jumpluff
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Acrobatics
- Memento
- U-turn
Shell Smash Omastar + Memento Jumpluff sounds like a really cool core for this meta. Shell Smash Omastar is a pretty threatening sweeper that already has good physical bulk to set up with, but what if you could set up on a -2/-2 mon?! Like, that's like guaranteed setup right there unless the mon has a super effective move against Oma. The two mons also share decent synergy with each other, as Jumpluff can lure in Fire and Flying types, U-Turn out on them, and go into Omastar so he can set up on them. Sleep Powder also helps to gain more set-up oppurtunities. This core would probably appreciate something to take out Zard and other Fire types with super effective coverage against Omastar. The core would also want something to deal with Lanturn, who can even wall Jumpluff due to the lack of Seed Bomb. But overall, with some support, I can see this core shining in the meta.
Also here's a cute Omastar set nobody has mentioned yet:
Omastar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Earth Power / Hidden Power Electric
So with Omastar, Rain got a new abuser. This set is meant to wallbreak and wear down walls so the other Rain sweepers can sweep a lot easier. With Swift Swim, Omastar can outspeed pretty much everything in Rain other than some Scarfers, and a Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pump in Rain is very, very hard to switch into. Scald can also be used to not risk a potential miss and is also a bit more spammable, while also being able to cripple physical threats with Burn. Overall, this will be a pretty cool set to use on Rain teams.
Some mons I see rising in usage to deal with Omastar are Poliwrath (Gets 2HKOed by a boosted HP Electric, but can Vacuum Wave Omastar to death and is immune to Water STAB), Mantine (HP Electric or Ancient Power hurts it, but immunity to Water STAB is cute). While I don't see Omastar being broken, it's definitely going to be a big threat.
My previous post was deleted, nbd I'll elaborate.
I said that Omastar could run Stone Edge to 2hko Mantine after rocks.
0 Atk Omastar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 228 Def Mantine: 146-174 (43.8 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (on this calc i ran naive but with a nature like modest...)
0- Atk Omastar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 228 Def Mantine: 132-156 (39.6 - 46.8%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery it's a roll. And of course you have to hit 2 edges and they probably will switch.
Rock Slide Sceptile is a lot better now, makes zard more scared to switch and it can still hit mag, just gotta watch out for Skuntank. A set I was thinking about before was power herb Charizard.
Stuff like Rhydon gets bodied after rocks, seems like a fairly good anti-lead, this set just gets bodied by oma though so I dont think itll be as good as I thought.
252 SpA Charizard Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 392-464 (94.6 - 112%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
I dont know whether to think Lanturn became better or worse. AV Lanturn can handle Omastar fairly well but it's scared by Zard running eq or something.
Like others have already said, HP Electric on Omastar will be better than Stone Edge as HP Electric hits the same things has Edge does, except hits Mantine, Pelipper, and Prinplup harder and still remains reliable unlike Stone Edge. Stone Edge is really only relevant vs Articuno since other things it hits already fear a STAB Water move, Ice Beam, or HP Electric.
As for Power Herb Zard, I'd like to test it out myself, but at first glance it seems rather mediocre since the power you gain from LO can give some pretty crucial OHKOs or 2HKOs. I can only think of match-ups vs Tauros and Hariyama off the top of my head but there's probably a lot more.
252 SpA Life Orb Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tauros: 308-364 (105.8 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Charizard Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 203-242 (47.3 - 56.4%) -- 78.9% chance to 2HKO
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I think that Steelix hates these new drops and will potentially have to change its moveset and start carrying Rock coverage for Zard since it resists Lix's dual stabs and either Lix hits it with Heavy slam and do 25-30% or Toxic it at worse. Also if Omastar starts becoming a common Hazard lead over the SS set it beats Lix 1 v 1 and can prevent Lix from being used later as death fodder since Scald has a chance to OHKO or can just burn Lix after it gets brought down to Sturdy.
I am surprised no one is speaking about the implications this has to weather teams considering both new drops are extremely potent in their respective weathers. Swift swim Omastar is a monster in rain and Solar Power Charizard in the sun has absurd power output.
It seems with every new set of drops NU shifts to the quintessential weather tier. Its pretty hilarious. Last month hail got abomasnow and now rain has omastar and sun has solar power charizard. As far as NU goes I'd argue this tier is definitely the most balanced tier when it comes to all four of the weathers.
Charizard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Solar Power
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flamethrower/focus blast
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
Charizard offers a fast and powerful fire type abuser in the sun with a solar boost off of its already high 109 special attack giving it great wallbreaking potential even without a non-boosting item. A choice scarf fixes its issues of speed and allows it to outspeed everything from Archeops to Sceptile to choice scarf Rotom. Because of Charizard's secondary flying typing it gives it a ground immunity for sun teams but also allows it to run powerful air slash allowing it hit Hariyama hard, one of sun's main issues.
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Audino in Sun: 219-258 (53.4 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Omastar @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Earth Power
Omastar gives rain an extremely strong special attacker base 115 special attack (ludicolo only has base 90) who can wallbreak with rain boosted hydro pumps and perfect coverage between Water/ice/Electric. Omastar gives rain really good ways to deal with their common issue mons:
Omastar in rain always 2hkos mega audino
252+ SpA Life Orb Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Audino in Rain: 218-257 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Hidden power electric destroys mantine
252+ SpA Life Orb Omastar Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 234-276 (70.2 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Decent chance to OHKO after rocks)
Earth Power 2hkos Lanturn and defensive Lanturn can't ohko you back
252+ SpA Life Orb Omastar Earth Power vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 229-270 (57.1 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I don't doubt the power of the choice specs swift swim set but I think there are too many water immunities in the tier for it to be the best set and the power shrinkage from specs to life orb doesn't appear to miss out any important 2hkos or ohkos anyways.
It seems with every new set of drops NU shifts to the quintessential weather tier. Its pretty hilarious. Last month hail got abomasnow and now rain has omastar and sun has solar power charizard. As far as NU goes I'd argue this tier is definitely the most balanced tier when it comes to all four of the weathers.
- Hail which is renown has the worst of the weathers has both setters here now in aurorus and abomasnow and both are potent for the tier.
- Rain has ludicolo, kabutops, and omastar now. Three of some of the most strongest swift swimmers in the game.
- Sun has Shiftry, Victreebel, Charizard, and handfuls of other chlorophyll and strong fire types.
- Even sand which is probably the worst of the four still has in an instant setter in hippopotas and sand rush abusers in Sandslash and Stoutland.
Charizard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Solar Power
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flamethrower/focus blast
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
Charizard offers a fast and powerful fire type abuser in the sun with a solar boost off of its already high 109 special attack giving it great wallbreaking potential even without a non-boosting item. A choice scarf fixes its issues of speed and allows it to outspeed everything from Archeops to Sceptile to choice scarf Rotom. Because of Charizard's secondary flying typing it gives it a ground immunity for sun teams but also allows it to run powerful air slash allowing it hit Hariyama hard, one of sun's main issues.
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Audino in Sun: 219-258 (53.4 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Omastar @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Earth Power
Omastar gives rain an extremely strong special attacker base 115 special attack (ludicolo only has base 90) who can wallbreak with rain boosted hydro pumps and perfect coverage between Water/ice/Electric. Omastar gives rain really good ways to deal with their common issue mons:
Omastar in rain always 2hkos mega audino
252+ SpA Life Orb Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Audino in Rain: 218-257 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Hidden power electric destroys mantine
252+ SpA Life Orb Omastar Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 234-276 (70.2 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Decent chance to OHKO after rocks)
Earth Power 2hkos Lanturn and defensive Lanturn can't ohko you back
252+ SpA Life Orb Omastar Earth Power vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 229-270 (57.1 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I don't doubt the power of the choice specs swift swim set but I think there are too many water immunities in the tier for it to be the best set and the power shrinkage from specs to life orb doesn't appear to miss out any important 2hkos or ohkos anyways.
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Charizard @ Expert Belt
Ability: Solar Power
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Flame Charge
I think a set like this one can be cool to use in sun teams. With inducers like Liepard or Volbeat, the Sun is easy to set up, and mons like Claydol can also be very usefull in Sun with zard (Spin and SR).
EB is amazing, Zard can OHKO Lanturn with Solar Beam after SRs. Flame Charge can boost Zard's Speed, then it can sweep like a boss.
Some calcs :
252 SpA Expert Belt Solar Power Charizard Solar Beam vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn in Sun: 370-437 (92.2 - 108.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Expert Belt Solar Power Charizard Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama in Sun: 283-334 (65.9 - 77.8%)
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 64 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Kangaskhan in Sun: 256-303 (69.7 - 82.5%)
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily in Sun: 246-289 (65.4 - 76.8%)
AV Hitmonchan is a good Zard's mate too, it can spin and check some rock types like Aurorus, or Omastar.
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lead oma will be mediocre at best. it's just too easy to get off a 1 time defog rn in the tier and we don't have the tools as a tier to really punish the defoggers. not sure how good SS oma will be, but i can't really see it being better than barbaracle so it'll probably be mediocre as well.
i can't really comment on zard yet because I haven't really used it but I kinda like the way it forces stuff like lix and sceptile to run rock coverage moves b/c it opens up the door for stuff like garb/muk to be much more reliable scept checks and also opens the door for stuff like mush to not be crippled by toxic from lix. just something interesting to watch.
also ban sawk that shit is fucked
i can't really comment on zard yet because I haven't really used it but I kinda like the way it forces stuff like lix and sceptile to run rock coverage moves b/c it opens up the door for stuff like garb/muk to be much more reliable scept checks and also opens the door for stuff like mush to not be crippled by toxic from lix. just something interesting to watch.
also ban sawk that shit is fucked
You forgot in your post to ban sceptile too ;X
This mon, there is literally 0 reason to not run it on every team, there is almost no opportunity cost. It has a few handfull of checks which it has ways of getting around comfortably, you're always guessing it's last slot / whether it is physical or special and base 120 speed with a base 130 stab nuke is not easy at all to check. It's honestly the gayest thing in the tier right now just because of how difficult it is to check, even its main checks it has ways of getting past. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a suspect test for it in the near future.
This mon, there is literally 0 reason to not run it on every team, there is almost no opportunity cost. It has a few handfull of checks which it has ways of getting around comfortably, you're always guessing it's last slot / whether it is physical or special and base 120 speed with a base 130 stab nuke is not easy at all to check. It's honestly the gayest thing in the tier right now just because of how difficult it is to check, even its main checks it has ways of getting past. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a suspect test for it in the near future.
Cradily @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 SpD
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Acient Power/Toxic
A mon I see getting a lot better in this meta is Cradily. This spread can take Modest Choice Specs Fire Blast from Charizard and +2 Ice Beam from Omastar, OHKOing them both in return. Laturn's getting better made Cradily better in turn, as Lanturn can't touch it.
The rise in usage of mons like Rotom and Xatu also definitely helps its viability, as these mons can't do much to it either.
SS Oma will probably be not as good, but I find Weak Armor + Shell Smash is still pretty threatening. It has a high enough defense to eat an initial hit and then Shell Smash. This brings it up to +3 Speed, which makes it hard to RK outside of Priority moves.
It doesn't really beat rotom, at most it wins with 30-40ish percent left, as wisphex sets are meant to break pokemon like cradily, and xatu straight up beats cradily, easily calm minding all over it, whilst ap is easily stalled out
Cradily should always be using physical Rock STAB for the most part, both for the extra BP and for the fact that it hits most of its targets harder, such as Jynx, Mantine, AV Magmortar, and the aforementioned Xatu, although phys Def Calm Mind can avoid the 2HKO and Roost unless it uses Stone Edge.
Can't sleep so what better way to spend my time then by making a post on smogon.com
Lilligant @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
On a more serious note, Hp rock Lilligant is something I've really been liking the past few days. It's a pretty effective mon versus our newest drops since Omastar gives it a chance to sleep something or set up while zard gets cleanly ohko'd and outsped at plus one or if it tries switching in on a giga drain. Hp rock is also much better at wearing down common switch ins to sleep powder like AV magmortar and Xatu since it does around 40% to Mag while xatu is taking over 60%. Also with the newest drops, offense is looking to get somewhat more common and Lilligant is a mon that performs well versus these kinds of teams due to its combination of speed and power. Sceptile surely gives it a bit of competition for an offensive grass type but access to Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance in exchange for fewer coverage options makes it an underated pick right now in my opinion.Plus sceptile will get banned so it's fine
Lilligant @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
On a more serious note, Hp rock Lilligant is something I've really been liking the past few days. It's a pretty effective mon versus our newest drops since Omastar gives it a chance to sleep something or set up while zard gets cleanly ohko'd and outsped at plus one or if it tries switching in on a giga drain. Hp rock is also much better at wearing down common switch ins to sleep powder like AV magmortar and Xatu since it does around 40% to Mag while xatu is taking over 60%. Also with the newest drops, offense is looking to get somewhat more common and Lilligant is a mon that performs well versus these kinds of teams due to its combination of speed and power. Sceptile surely gives it a bit of competition for an offensive grass type but access to Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance in exchange for fewer coverage options makes it an underated pick right now in my opinion.
252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Hidden Power Rock vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 205-242 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Hidden Power Rock vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 107-127 (33.7 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - closer to 35 but mag tends to run more speed nowadays
252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 354-416 (119.1 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Hidden Power Rock vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 107-127 (33.7 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - closer to 35 but mag tends to run more speed nowadays
252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 354-416 (119.1 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Omastar @ Rocky Helmet / Shuca Berry
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam / Icy Wind
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Stealth Rock
Bulky Omastar has been a set that I've been testing a while on balanced teams as a glue and a hard switchin to most physical mons. With a sky high 125 defense, it plays sort of like a Carracosta with a Scald that actually does something, as well as having access to far more useful hazards. Especially with the rise of flying types as well as fast normals in Physical Zard, Chops, Kanga, and Tauros which otherwise outpace and give bulky offense / balance archetypes a lot of trouble, Omastar is able to hard stop all of them and capitalize with hazards. I definitely recommend using Rocky Helmet because it wears down a lot of the mons it checks really quickly and in tangent with a really strong scald racks up heavy damage, but shuca is useful since most of the mons you check cover you with Ground attacks. Ice Beam is preferred cause even uninvested it 2HKOes every significant grass mon in the tier, but Icy Wind can deter stuff from setting up on you. If you find the need to nail Lanturn necessary be my guest it'll 3HKO at worst.
i'd definitely run lefties on defensive omastar (which i agree is a great set right now) since w/o having that passive recovery you get worn down a lot quicker, esp if you catch a burn or a poison from something that you would normally switch in.
i've been having a lot of fun playing around w/ physical zard sets so far. I'd say that special sets are definitely the most splashable and probably the most consistent, but i've definitely found that physical sets like DD and Bulky SD have their places on certain builds. DD especially is one that i've been having a blast playing with, it's a surprisingly effective late game cleaner since a lot of teams are running swellow as their fastest mon or only using priority like mach punch from chan or BP from yama. i'll drop the set below for people to try out, since i feel like its a mon that's just rly fun to play w/ atm.
Charizard @ Lum Berry / Passho Berry | Blaze
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe | Adamant
Dragon Dance | Flare Blitz | Thunderpunch | Earthquake
i've been having a lot of fun playing around w/ physical zard sets so far. I'd say that special sets are definitely the most splashable and probably the most consistent, but i've definitely found that physical sets like DD and Bulky SD have their places on certain builds. DD especially is one that i've been having a blast playing with, it's a surprisingly effective late game cleaner since a lot of teams are running swellow as their fastest mon or only using priority like mach punch from chan or BP from yama. i'll drop the set below for people to try out, since i feel like its a mon that's just rly fun to play w/ atm.
Charizard @ Lum Berry / Passho Berry | Blaze
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe | Adamant
Dragon Dance | Flare Blitz | Thunderpunch | Earthquake
(stealing sprite format is what I do)
Lanturn @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 104 HP / 232 Def / 172 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Volt Switch
- Thunder Wave
- Heal Bell
So I was building a team and found this to be the new EV Spread for Lanturn, which can take on any special variant of Charizard with ease. Thunder Wave is really nice to cripple Swords Dance Charizards which are a bit more threatening to this specific EV spread; however, a healthy Lanturn has a high chance to tank an Earthquake without Stealth Rock damage. Dragon Dance can be comfortably tanked even at +1.
Calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Charizard Hidden Power Grass vs. 104 HP / 172+ SpD Lanturn: 162-192 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Charizard Air Slash vs. 104 HP / 172+ SpD Lanturn: 75-89 (17.9 - 21.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Charizard Fire Blast vs. 104 HP / 172+ SpD Lanturn: 110-130 (26.3 - 31.1%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blaze Charizard Fire Blast vs. 104 HP / 172+ SpD Lanturn: 165-195 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Charizard Earthquake vs. 104 HP / 232 Def Lanturn: 274-324 (65.7 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Charizard Earthquake vs. 104 HP / 232 Def Lanturn: 364-430 (87.2 - 103.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Lanturn Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 158-188 (53.1 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
While it may seem that Lanturn dies to physical Charizard, special Charizard is more common (from what I have seen) and Lanturn can take hits for days while being able to get rid of a major threat, which gives defensive teams a nice little breather.
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Yeah I'm pretty confused as to why Special Zard is so damn popular right now seeing as how Pyroar pretty much outclasses it. They have the same Special Attack (109), but Pyroar has better Speed (Base 106 being superior to Base 100),and isn't almost completely walled by lanturn thanks to Hyper Voice (252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 152-179 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery),or at least isn't forced into a suboptimal HP Grass move just to beat it. Pyroar also doesn't force you to run a rapid spinner/defogger like Charizard does, as it can switch into rocks 5 times w/o damage, while Charizard can only switch in 3 times, assuming it doesn't take any damage, which in this tier is a big one, so you're likely to be 2HKO'd by rocks alone unless you're running Roost. The only reasons I would use special zard over pyroar is if I'm massivly Steelix weak, and even then I could go with physical Zard or Mantine, or for a sun team using solar power, which may or may not actually be good. The point is, players should at least consider using Pyroar before they're using Special Zard.
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