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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?
- Thread starter Philip7086
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That's what I thought.
Good,but definitely not broken.
The ChestoRest set though,is epic and I've been swept by it a few times xD
I think I should pack more physical attackers...
first of all surely there are many more heatrans out there than u tell there are...you are way exaggerating...
a lot of heatrans this gen choose ti ivest in hp(and always have sometimes,not rarely)and go with sr leftovers and 3 attacking moves...
a full hp heatran is a superb specs latios check(which is the set that has been in for discussion in all the previous pages)'cause he can tank every attack from it not even being 3hkoed by any of the attacks that it comonly carries except surf...that's why he is a check..if he could take surf also he would be the perfect counter for specs latios...
noone said that it counters latios...but with hp investement yes he checks him pretty damn good!
also something else...pls guys stop the conversation about lugia nominated for ou...it's not only a ridiculous idea it is also very counter-productive to ask about lugia's nomination in this thread...'cause by one simple question the whole thread becomes like shit 'cause people that don't know anything about ubers are creating scenarios and discussing about pointless things...every decent uber player knows the potential of lugia!!!it's a freaking monster and one of the best walls available in ubers...it is also a superb boosting sweeper...
we should be discussing serious and relative things to the metagame we have right now!!!which pokes are overwhelming to the metagame and create some problems?which's pokes potential has yet to be found?these are the questions that should be asked!if every guy here said crazy things like:how about putting ice punch on alakzam to surpise people or can you guys imagine how awesome flareon with flare blitz and eq would be,then this whole threat would become a mess...
we shouldn't be discussing imaginary and unrealistic things like lugia coming down to ou...
Isn't Erufuun already a better Subseeder?
Agreed, Heatran is at best a temporary check to Latios, but I don't think that a Heatran is switching into a Latios in the rain. Anyways, might as well throw this out at folks to get the conversation rolling.
How've people been checking Reuniclus? That thing's really annoying to me, the only thing that I can stop it with is a Tyranitar with Crunch.
How've people been checking Reuniclus? That thing's really annoying to me, the only thing that I can stop it with is a Tyranitar with Crunch.
Sorry, i forgot to mention the ability for it is rain dish. Leftovers + Rain Dish + Leech Seed means you're actually gaining HP when you sub.
Well I came across Twashs (Ubers) Team with Ludicolo. It had Rain Dish + Leech Seed + Grass Knot + Substitute + Protect and it was a downright bitch to take down. It took 90% switching into Palkias Outrage and then (don't ask me how though) It got back up to 100% a few turns later. Heck the only reason I was not outstalled was that I had Scizor and a Dialaga left. Scizor was able to U-Turn out (to get rid of Seeds) and then Dialga nailed it with a Toxic. That thing is very very hard to take down although it needs Rain to be effective. Also, It faces severe competition with Parasect which can run a similar set, has Spore, and has a X Scissor to smoke Grass types.
EDIT
EDIT
Run Spiritomb, Stableye, Latias with CM + Roar etc. It can be really annoying though.
Yes Ludicolo is an extremely effective special tank in the rain, I haven't played it much but with a fully specially defensive spread, toxic spikes, and leech seed, its hp FLIES right back up against any special attacker while you're going down very quickly if you didn't prepare for it. It shows that Drizzle provides insane team support (not that im saying its broken, im theorymoning mostly but I know its effective). This is complicated working around the weathers of this game, im happy to have fun oppurtunities like 100% Thunders, Gales, even Solarbeams etc. but so many weather sweepers are a bit too easy to abuse considering the power output you get. I hope rain fades into the category of teams that use Politoed to take advantage of the lesser advantages you can get and the damp rock hyper offense ones stick around. Its so likely that you'll see a sun or especially a Sandstorm team though, god im sick of Mixtar+Excadrill, I thought of that the first day I played the game, and those Tar's still run Fire Blast and expect to catch your Forry or Ferrothorn off guard. Landorus is also pretty fricking insane, to the point where you can't directly counter it. Excadrill is annoying but at least its counterable, Gliscor can handle multiple flinches, Unaware Quagsire laughs its ass off unless it switches right into a Life Orb Earthquake first turn, sure there aren't many reliable checks and its typing is annoying but at least its possible to take out without losing your pokemon. I can understand how it is "overpowered" though as otherwise good checks like Virizion need a chunky defensive investment to actually survive a +2 Earthquake, even at full health. I wish silly stuff like Scarfed Alakazam and Aerodactyl could actually outrun that thing, just a bit too fast. As im writing this im changing my mind on him, even though he never troubles me I would like to see one pokemon besides Excadrill have the right to be considered fast. Its a tricky choice to call it OU or Uber. If it didn't have a hard counter (Gliscor) this would be easier, considering all the other checks are 70% or less. Banning Sand Throw would only make it worse for me personally, because I usually rely on Quagsire to stop it, Sand Power and Mold Breaker are both exponentially better at dealing with my team. I would have never thought a pokemon with just STAB EQ, unstab Rock Slide, X-Scissor, Return, and Rapid Spin would be considered so threatening. Cheers to Sand Throw Sandslash taking its place!!!!
Just a bunch of things I wanted to say, I know it will probably be ignored anyhow.
Just a bunch of things I wanted to say, I know it will probably be ignored anyhow.
And as long as Stone Edge hits.
BurningMan
fueled by beer
^and if stone edge doesn't miss^^
,but yeah on most of my teams i have to go similar ways if i want to get rid of this blob.
The Cm variants are annoying and you sometimes have to sacrifice something, but only extremly defensive teams should have problems to deal with it. The TR variants however are extremly deadly and can shred teams apart if you can predict right, but are worthless against Stall on the other hand.
Edit: kinda Ninja'ed, also impressive how bulky Rank is thought he should at least take 70% from that kind of hit, though he isn't 2HKoed by ScarfChomps Outrage wich also indicates what a bulky Mother Fu**** he is
,but yeah on most of my teams i have to go similar ways if i want to get rid of this blob.
The Cm variants are annoying and you sometimes have to sacrifice something, but only extremly defensive teams should have problems to deal with it. The TR variants however are extremly deadly and can shred teams apart if you can predict right, but are worthless against Stall on the other hand.
Edit: kinda Ninja'ed, also impressive how bulky Rank is thought he should at least take 70% from that kind of hit, though he isn't 2HKoed by ScarfChomps Outrage wich also indicates what a bulky Mother Fu**** he is
I usually hit it with my Hydreigon's U-turn and switch over to Chandy who can survive a +1 Psychic/Psycho Shock and 2HKO him with Shadow Ball.
That +1 attack leaves me with low enough HP to activate my Salac Berry,so I'm usually set up to sweep.
That +1 attack leaves me with low enough HP to activate my Salac Berry,so I'm usually set up to sweep.
Okay, why is it that every time there is a suspect test that some people seriously suggest "testing" Lugia/Ho-Oh in OU? It's NEVER going to happen. If things like Darkrai, Shaymin, Manaphy, Deoxys, etc are problems (which we all know they are since they have been tested), what on earth is going to make Lugia/Ho-Oh tolerable? Because they're weak to Stealth Rock? That is a pathetic argument. They both have Roost/Recover, are insanely bulky, pretty fast (Ho-Oh has Nitro Charge of doom), and hit hard. Lugia's offensive stats aren't as immediately threatening as some things but they don't need to be, 90 is quite acceptable combined with 110 base speed and being a pain to kill. One shouldn't also assume uber spreads as well, Lugia can afford to go all out as an offensive attacker (it sometimes does in Ubers and is surprisingly effective even there, let alone in OU with stab Aeroblast and bulk) or defender. And seriously, Lugia would not die in OU. I'd post calcs but I have to find them (because I once calculated a bunch of calcs and explanations the last time it was suggested Ho-Oh/Lugia be tested on why they are NEVER OU material. The only way they'd be OU is if everything dropped and it became the new uber tier).
And seriously...NO. Lugia doesn't have to be defensive. Stab Calm Mind Aeroblasts would wreak havoc in OU resisted by Rock/Steel only and coincidentally could have a high chance of critical hitting. It can also be annoying and Trick you into acceptabing a Choice Item (even lol Choice Band Lugia can be good with Trick, Punishment, Zen Headbutt, Sky Attack, Aqua Tail, etc but not all the above of course). And after 1 Calm Mind, a Life Orb Aeroblast 2 hit koes (with slight other damage) max hp/max sdef Nattorei. If that is a critical (twice the chance of normal moves and it will crit eventually) it can ohko you. It's best potential killer in OU is Tyranitar and with Reflect, not even Choice Band can take Lugia down in two hits the defensive one. Are you serious??? Seriously, why on earth is there need to test it? If weaker things in Ubers (Deoxys, Darkrai, Manaphy, etc) that didn't see as much use in the Uber tier in the end were huge problems, why on earth would some of the most common ubers be even considered?
-Gosh dang it, I miss by a page.
And seriously...NO. Lugia doesn't have to be defensive. Stab Calm Mind Aeroblasts would wreak havoc in OU resisted by Rock/Steel only and coincidentally could have a high chance of critical hitting. It can also be annoying and Trick you into acceptabing a Choice Item (even lol Choice Band Lugia can be good with Trick, Punishment, Zen Headbutt, Sky Attack, Aqua Tail, etc but not all the above of course). And after 1 Calm Mind, a Life Orb Aeroblast 2 hit koes (with slight other damage) max hp/max sdef Nattorei. If that is a critical (twice the chance of normal moves and it will crit eventually) it can ohko you. It's best potential killer in OU is Tyranitar and with Reflect, not even Choice Band can take Lugia down in two hits the defensive one. Are you serious??? Seriously, why on earth is there need to test it? If weaker things in Ubers (Deoxys, Darkrai, Manaphy, etc) that didn't see as much use in the Uber tier in the end were huge problems, why on earth would some of the most common ubers be even considered?
-Gosh dang it, I miss by a page.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Lugia actually has some pretty hard counters, believe it or not. Lileep is by far the best, due to suction cups. It also has worry seed to prevent lugia from sleep stalling. However, he needs rest if he wants to win the toxic stalling war.
Yes,because Lileep would be very common in OU/sarcasm
Lugia's counters are few and rare T_T
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
That doesn't change the fact that he does in fact have counters. Also, blissey/chansey wall him pretty badly too. She may get phazed out, but lugia will get poisoned or paralyzed in the process.
Shedinja can wall Kyogre all day,it doesn't mean jack when Shedinja sucks against everything else.
Nearly everything has counter,it still doesn't mean they should be OU if they do,or Uber if they don't.
Btw,Lugia can learn Substitute >.>
Can we just move off of the Lugia/Ubers discussion already?
Reposting to try to get a new discussion moving.
I assume you would argue for Kyogre to be unbanned because Quagsire/Gastrodon counter it, Groudon to be unbanned because it can't do jack to Tangrowth/Skarmory without Overheat, Darkrai because Sleep Talk Heracross rips it apart, Garchomp because Icicle Spear Cloyster beats it, Skymin because Buffarroon beats it, etc.
Just because a Pokemon has counters/checks doesn't mean it's automatically not uber. Likewise, just because a Pokemon has no checks/counters doesn't automatically mean it's uber (the second one is harder to fulfill but for some Pokemon there is no one check that can handle every set that that Pokemon can use).
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