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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?

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When a team is playing with 2-3 Rain Dance users(i.e. no Drizzle) it is a completely different story from a Drizzle team. At least you can stall out 8 turns of rain and then it's your turn to assault his team while he's vulnerable. However, against infinite Rain, you're on the back foot the whole game.

It's Drizzle that's broken. Not Kingdra, not Kabutops, not Ludicolo, not Omastar. Ban Drizzle.
 
Erazor said:
When a team is playing with 2-3 Rain Dance users(i.e. no Drizzle) it is a completely different story from a Drizzle team. At least you can stall out 8 turns of rain and then it's your turn to assault his team while he's vulnerable. However, against infinite Rain, you're on the back foot the whole game.

It's Drizzle that's broken. Not Kingdra, not Kabutops, not Ludicolo, not Omastar. Ban Drizzle.
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what is with ppl are all of you AFRAID to enable a larger number of playstyles in the meta sure looks like it since removing drizzle takes away more than half a dozen of them.
 
fidgety said:
what is with ppl are all of you AFRAID to enable a larger number of playstyles in the meta sure looks like it since removing drizzle takes away more than half a dozen of them.
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No we are afraid that the whole Game turns into a cluster fuck that contains the two playstyles "Rain" and "counter Rain" cause thats what the metagame currently is and won`t change until we ban Drizzle.
 
BurningMan said:
No we are afraid that the whole Game turns into a cluster fuck that contains the two playstyles "Rain" and "counter Rain" cause thats what the metagame currently is and won`t change until we ban Drizzle.
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or we remove the abusers that cause drizzle to be broken + enable rain to stay as a viable play-style.
 
fidgety said:
or we remove the abusers that cause drizzle to be broken + enable rain to stay as a viable play-style.
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Well, let's see....

Kingdra, Kabutops, Ludicolo, Omastar, Gorrebys, Manaphy, Vaporeon...shall I go on?

Please. Banning these would be absolutely rediculous. Drizzle, on the other hand, would make complete sense.
A limited amount of turns to set up or sweep would allow these things to be perfectly viable without being broken.
 
Tyrant626 said:
Well, let's see....

Kingdra, Kabutops, Ludicolo, Omastar, Gorrebys, Manaphy, Vaporeon...shall I go on?

Please. Banning these would be absolutely rediculous. Drizzle, on the other hand, would make complete sense.
A limited amount of turns to set up or sweep would allow these things to be perfectly viable without being broken.
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Omastar and gorebyss are debatable (they still need to set up, make themselves frail, and chose between beating nattorei or bulky waters), vaporeon is by no means broken even with drizzle, and manaphy is possibly broken without drizzle.

The only 3 that would need banning are kingdra, ludicolo, and kabutops- and even then kabutops' frailty also makes it borderline and perhaps deserving of another test.
 
I think by the end of this period, I may nom Kingdra and keep everything else. It's the only rain sweeper that is overly threatening and it does win games with ease. Manaphy is borderline but I don't think it's broken...yet. Next test is a different story. Nothing else seems close to broken, I rarely have trouble with Ludicolo or Kabutops.
 
Tyrant626 said:
Well, let's see....

Kingdra, Kabutops, Ludicolo, Omastar, Gorrebys, Manaphy, Vaporeon...shall I go on?

Please. Banning these would be absolutely rediculous. Drizzle, on the other hand, would make complete sense.
A limited amount of turns to set up or sweep would allow these things to be perfectly viable without being broken.
Click to expand...
i think that for manaphy it is a given that it will soon be banned...

how do you know that omastar,gorebyss and vaporeon are broken?i have only heard people complaining about kingdra,kabutops and ludicolo...do you have any evidence that they are broken?how can you say that they are without even testing them?pls stop taking things as given...noone knows if any of these pokes is broken or not 'cause noone has been using them...so simple!

so why not give them a chance to show us if anothe rain offense,not so overpowered,is broken or not...

Tyrant626 said:
Well, let's see....

Kingdra, Kabutops, Ludicolo, Omastar, Gorrebys, Manaphy, Vaporeon...shall I go on?

Please. Banning these would be absolutely rediculous. Drizzle, on the other hand, would make complete sense.
A limited amount of turns to set up or sweep would allow these things to be perfectly viable without being broken.
Click to expand...
i don't think that setting up rain in this metagame will be viable with all the weather inducers we have now...the addition of very viable trick room mons doesn't help either...also the fact that nattorei and burungeru showed up doesn't help rain dance teams a lot since now 8 turns are more easier to stall out...
i think that if we ban drizzle rain offense will be non-existant!
 
so what about all the sand abusers, we looking at ALL rock types, all pokes with dustproof, sand veil, sand rush AND sand strength and anything else that doesn't take damage from it.

i dont think ludicolo and kabutops are a problem, here is no shortage of scarfed u-turners and fighting moves flying around this metagame.
 
i don't think either that any swift swimmer except maybe kingdra is broken,but because i see that almost everyone here thinks that they are i will settle for banning all 3 for the sake of keeping drizzle in the ou metagame...
 
Ala said:
I think by the end of this period, I may nom Kingdra and keep everything else. It's the only rain sweeper that is overly threatening and it does win games with ease. Manaphy is borderline but I don't think it's broken...yet. Next test is a different story. Nothing else seems close to broken, I rarely have trouble with Ludicolo or Kabutops.
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CM Manaphy is rain is an absolute monster to take down. Either it or Drizzle needs to be abnned to unbreak it, and as Drizzle would also unbreak the three SSers if it were banned, I see little reason why we should not just ban it
 
fidgety said:
it's not even a fraction as viable without drizzle due to all the other weather teams running around.
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But that's the point. drizzle is TOO viable, and thus difficult to deal with to an extreme degree. Rain teams can still be efficient counters to sand teams, as once you take out their weather-bringer, you can render all of their pokes pretty much useless
 
Those saying "Gorebyss and Omastar have to choose the right move to beat Nattorei", I hope you know +2 Hydro Pump from either about does 75% min to 252/252+ Nattorei, a OHKO with a full layer of Spikes up.

Anyway, I know I can't be the only one who finds the idea of a Ludicolo/Kingdra ban silly :|.
 
masterful said:
But that's the point. drizzle is TOO viable, and thus difficult to deal with to an extreme degree. Rain teams can still be efficient counters to sand teams, as once you take out their weather-bringer, you can render all of their pokes pretty much useless
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It's actually the other way around. Most rain abusers are far more dependent on rain than sand abusers are on sand. The only ones that are dependent are Doryuuzu and Sandslash, with ttar himself coming in third.
 
Arc Tech said:
It's actually the other way around. Most rain abusers are far more dependent on rain than sand abusers are on sand. The only ones that are dependent are Doryuuzu and Sandslash, with ttar himself coming in third.
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T-tar isn't a sand abuser. And you clearly don't understand what I was saying. If you take out their weather user, you can easily defeat them
 
masterful said:
T-tar isn't a sand abuser. And you clearly don't understand what I was saying. If you take out their weather user, you can easily defeat them
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wrong i've had multiple occasions where i lost the weather war but my team still won due to all the damage dealt to my opponent's team during it, likewise i've had 2-3 occasions where i've won the weather war but went on to lose the battle for the same reasons.
 
fidgety said:
wrong i've had multiple occasions where i lost the weather war but my team still won due to all the damage dealt to my opponent's team during it, likewise i've had 2-3 occasions where i've won the weather war but went on to lose the battle for the same reasons.
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Well duh. I'm speaking in general terms. There will always be different situations and hax and the like. Overall on the ladder, if you take out SS team's weather inducer, you can beat them with 8-turn rain, especially if you manage to get it up multiple times
 
masterful said:
T-tar isn't a sand abuser. And you clearly don't understand what I was saying. If you take out their weather user, you can easily defeat them
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Not really...

Apart from dory who needs sand for speed, most pokemon found on sand teams don't really care about sand either way. Sure garchomp likes the occasional miss and landlos likes the extra power but neither of them actually need it to do what they do.

It's not any easier to beat these pokemon when sand isn't up. It's a lot easier to beat rain abusers when they don't outspeed everything.
 
fidgety said:
what is with ppl are all of you AFRAID to enable a larger number of playstyles in the meta sure looks like it since removing drizzle takes away more than half a dozen of them.
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what half a dozen playstyles?

really its rain stall and rain offense
Rain stall is largely fine
but rain offense is the problem
banning drizzle may kill rain stall
but it curbs the usefulness of swift swim and rain offense successfully

on top of this only sandstorm is really broken
but dory is the only abuser who is constantly listed
perhaps landlos

as for drought
well have to see next round

and hail
although largely regaurded as a joke
is quite viable
considering all the dragons in the metagame
 
Arc Tech said:
It's actually the other way around. Most rain abusers are far more dependent on rain than sand abusers are on sand. The only ones that are dependent are Doryuuzu and Sandslash, with ttar himself coming in third.
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when ttar is gone the drizzle is constant
although most sand pokes are good without sand
they are easily swept by a rain team under an unthreatened drizzle
 
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