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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?

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I'm starting to get a little irritated that some of my Excadrill checks are getting demolished by a simple Rock Slide flinch. I'm not sure if that changes my opinion on whether or not he's fair game in this meta, but the ability to change the weather is a huge boon against him. Sand teams without Gliscor, however, really need to watch out...
 
Tyranitar carry Superpower often enough, so I don't know what this business about not being able to handle Hydregion is.

Only reason I see people using Hydregion over Latios is mainly because he's new. Aside from why someone would prefer it I can only really see U-Turn being the primary reason. I'd much rather be weak to Pursuit than Mach Punch in this gen.
 
Jaroda said:
Tyranitar carry Superpower often enough, so I don't know what this business about not being able to handle Hydregion is.

Only reason I see people using Hydregion over Latios is mainly because he's new. Aside from why someone would prefer it I can only really see U-Turn being the primary reason. I'd much rather be weak to Pursuit than Mach Punch in this gen.
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Thank you. I really wonder why Sazando (I will call him that until I die) is even really considered a problem, as I don't know if every Sazando carries surf, or if it will really be doing enough with T-tar's beast SpD
 
Dude, are you serious? Pursuit means you're out of the game and Mach Punch means "oh no, Conkeldurr can revenge me if I'm low enough" (which is 51.5% - 60.7% btw). There is a huge difference between being able to switch out of a priority move safely, and getting boned on your first kill if your opponent happens to have the right Pokemon.

Also, Hydregion's movepool is just way, way better. Seriously, U-turn, Fire Blast, and Focus Blast are all awesome and have kick-ass coverage. He can run STAB Dark to check Rank and whatnot if he wants, but the number of things that can safely switch into Specs Hydregion is about the same number as the ones who can switch into Latios, sans Blissey. Latios can be faster and specially bulkier if he wants to, but for me, it's either Specs or no go; that Pursuit weak is kind of a big deal.
 
Most common sets I see are Drco Meteor, U-Turn, Fire Blast/Flamethrower, and Surf/Dark Pulse/Earth Power/Dragon Pulse. I think Specs Latios Surf was something like a 2-3HKO in the sand against max SpD.

Well the question is can Tyranitar KO with Pursuit if you don't switch? Or do you have to be the Choice Band version? If you're the Adamant CB version, you'll do a lot of damage with either Surf or Draco Meteor and Tyranitar is easily revenged after that. If you're a bulky special version, you'll be able to attack twice before going down to Pursuit.

Also, Latios doesn't need more than a Dragon move and a combination of Surf, HP Fire and Psycho Shock. It can also use Calm Mind and Recover if need be.

And it isn't just Mach Punch Hydregion has to watch for it's all fighting moves. That means Close Combats and Focus Blasts alike. Being weak to fighting sucks. Much worse than it does to Dark.
 
SJCrew said:
Dude, are you serious? Pursuit means you're out of the game and Mach Punch means "oh no, Conkeldurr can revenge me if I'm low enough" (which is 51.5% - 60.7% btw). There is a huge difference between being able to switch out of a priority move safely, and getting boned on your first kill if your opponent happens to have the right Pokemon.

Also, Hydregion's movepool is just way, way better. Seriously, U-turn, Fire Blast, and Focus Blast are all awesome and have kick-ass coverage. He can run STAB Dark to check Rank and whatnot if he wants, but the number of things that can safely switch into Specs Hydregion is about the same number as the ones who can switch into Latios, sans Blissey. Latios can be faster and specially bulkier if he wants to, but for me, it's either Specs or no go; that Pursuit weak is kind of a big deal.
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I love Hydregion, and I hope Latios gets banned soon o I can use him without feeling gipped, but I feel that this thing has got heavy 4 move-slot syndrome. I always want to just run DM, Dark Pulse, Fire Blast, and Surf for perfect coverage, but I like Earth Power and Dragon Pulse and U-turn too. This thing needs better speed, better bulk, and 5 moveslots. Then it will be the ultimate pokemon. Right now it is largely a slower Latios
 
I think Sazandora is better off going modest, using enough EV's to outspeed Heatran(or +Spe Base 80's if you want) and then tossing the rest of the EVs into HP. There's not a whole lot of important stuff you miss out on in that range, and with modest you hit harder than Latios who's forced to run timid. Extra bulk and Pursuit resistance definitely means this thing can be used over Latios on the right teams, and Fire Blast/Focus Blast/U-Turn make it that much harder to switch into.
 
Most common sets I see are Drco Meteor, U-Turn, Fire Blast/Flamethrower, and Surf/Dark Pulse/Earth Power/Dragon Pulse. I think Specs Latios Surf was something like a 2-3HKO in the sand against max SpD.
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See all those options you just listed? Specs Focus Blast definitely OHKOs Tyranitar with no problems. He can also check Ttar, Rank, etc. Even if he goes Scarf, his movepool lets him make up for the missed wallbreaking power, and U-turn can stave off some unfavorable match-ups. I'd have to be on something serious to consider running Scarf Latios.
 
SJCrew said:
See all those options you just listed? Specs Focus Blast definitely OHKOs Tyranitar with no problems. He can also check Ttar, Rank, etc. Even if he goes Scarf, his movepool lets him make up for the missed wallbreaking power, and U-turn can stave off some unfavorable match-ups. I'd have to be on something serious to consider running Specs Latios.
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The two fill different roles. Hydre can't match Latios' Speed without giving up a huge amount of power. If you need the combination of speed and power more than you need the better resistances and alternative moves that Hydre offers, that's certainly a good reason to use Latios.

I won't say one is necessarily better than the other, but there are certainly plenty of reasons why each one could be used over the other.
 
Sazandora is easier for offensive teams to handle. The difference in speed means that there is a wide array of pokemon able to check Sazandora yet unable to check Latios (all base 100s-110s, most notably Salamence, Jirachi, Landlos, Virizion, Terakion, Garchomp, Denchura, etc), as well as a wide array of pokes Latios can check while Sazandora can't (Garchomp, Virizion, Mence, Landlos, etc). Difference in power means Draco Meteor hurts less from Sazandora, turning some Ohkos to 2hkos. Also important is lack of CM/DD, which doesn't allow Sazandora to be a viable sweeper. Finally, in a fighting-centric metagame, fighting-type resistance is much more important than psychic-type one. I guess Sazandora does have its merits, like Fire Blast, U-turn, and ability to go mixed, but, seeing as pursuit isn't too common in this meta as of yet, while close combat is, i'll go with Latios.
 
actually sxof now that you mention it, how many people have tried dd latios? it seems as though people beat latios by a) outspeeding or b) pursuiting, and dd gets by one of those. idk, a set of dd/dragon pulse/surf/hp fire or something @lo. i know the power loss from specs meteor will be huge but i'm still curious about how effective it is at beating its counters/checks.
 
Just using DD for speed isn't worth the moveslot, imo. A Scarf is better in most cases.
Btw, DD Latios can actually get past TTar by using Earthquake. It can't do anything to Nattorei though.
 
use dd/earthquake/hidden power fire/dragon pulse then, unless you really want surf to hit balloon heatran. the whole point to using dd rather than a scarf is to actually sweep rather than just hit and run like you often do with a scarfer.
 
DD Latios should just be run like a normal DD dragon, with something like DD/EQ/Outrage/filler. It helps him to get past his usual switch-ins(TTar, Blissey, other scarf dragons and stuff) and possibly sweep.
 
ehh I would rather stick to what Latios is strong at rather than mucking around with a gimmicky DD set. I would rather run just run a DD Salamence and employ Latios as a LO cleaner or something (or just not use Latios at all). Not to mention that Mence can run a DD set much better especially once Earthquake Spiral gets released.
 
yeah true I forgot about that. Still my point still stands. Mence hits much harder and the drop in speed is not too bad anyway. I rather use Latios for special attacking duties as thats what its great at
 
No reason you can't run a mixed Latios. EQ+ev investment (if needed) to beat Tyranitar, rest in SpA and Spe to run some strong special attacking options. Dragon Pulse and HP Fire sound promising, or you could do something with Draco Meteor and more physical coverage.
 
ehhh. You could run a mixed Latios if you wished. The issue for me is that it has a pretty average attack stat and the moment you make it Mixed you risk getting outclassed by Salamence. I can see why you would use a DD set just for the speed boost but a mixed Latios is just outclassed in my opinion.
 
ginganinja said:
ehhh. You could run a mixed Latios if you wished. The issue for me is that it has a pretty average attack stat and the moment you make it Mixed you risk getting outclassed by Salamence. I can see why you would use a DD set just for the speed boost but a mixed Latios is just outclassed in my opinion.
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Mence definitely doesn't outclass it. Latios has higher speed and a much stronger Draco Meteor. Also, DDmence is usually physical-only, while this Latios is mixed and thus able to break some Pokemon it previously couldn't, Tyranitar being chief among them.
 
DD Latios is at best a gimmick. You need a +Atk nature and max attack to ohko 252 HP CB TTar most of the time after SR. If you run a + Spe nature you just have a slim chance of ohko (75.7% - 89.1%) after SR but in both cases you won't be able to invest much into SpA making Latios much easier to stall by the likes of Gliscor, Skarmory and pretty much every bulky water in the game.

I've used DD Latios before and I can say that you're better abusing CM (especially since you have psycho shock to handle Blissey) or specs as all you can get with DD is some surprise kill or some improbable late game sweep (and even then there are more reliable late game sweepers).
 
DD Latios, that's specially oriented, is not bad, but only as a late-game cleaner role. Something like DD/Dragon Pulse/Thunder/Hidden Power Fire can clean up nicely if you've littered the opposing side with Spikes and what-not. Physical DD isn't worth it, just use Salamence.
 
My real problem is that almost all the sazandora i have seen are scarfed and that makes it really easy to deal with since you more or less know what you are dealing with. if you don't use a scarf it is simply a slow dragon who is slower than all the base 100's. the pursuit resistance is always nice but getting hit hard by fighting is tough, also just because it can switch out of the fighting types doesnt make it that good since that could easily mean a Roobishin bulk up or something like that. Sazandora is a cool pokemon but its stats dont really net it much over latios and then the other dragons
 
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