np: OU Suspect Testing Round 3 - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

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so... how do you get past Renkurusu, taht things like, invincible, is choice band Ttar really the only way?

My Politoed has encore, so whenever it comes in, I just switch to Toed. Unboosted, it can only 3hko if memory servers, and if it cms, I encore it (I'm faster, of course) and it continues to encore as long as I so desire.
 
You continue to encore it? What do you do when it finally runs out of calm minds since you aren't doing anything much to it in return?
 
Refer to the Reuniclus thread. People have come up with colorful, some viable, ways to check Reuniclus. Though I never seem to have a problem with it.

Overall, I think the latest Suspect test is going to be less partial than the previous tests. People have already found out how to pivot off Sandstorm, and Sun is obviously a bit underwhelming. In my experience, however, offensive Sun is gradually increasing in usage, more than Sandstorm. I haven't got a problem with either of those two weathers either, except for Swords Dance Blaziken. Essentially, without a Tentacruel or Burungeru or Lati@s, you're basically swept, though this isn't to say it should be nominated.

Also, Landuros has certainly been neutered. Less people are going to nominate for Landuros for Suspect, I believe, and he should have a comfortable place in the metagame. Obviously, there are more than a few ways to counter/check Landuros, so there shouldn't be too much dispute over it.

My two cents.
 
Also, Landuros has certainly been neutered. Less people are going to nominate for Landuros for Suspect, I believe, and he should have a comfortable place in the metagame. Obviously, there are more tan a few ways to counter/check Landuros, so there shouldn't be too much dispute over it.

I agree.
I've only seen 2 Landorus and they were unable to do much before dying.
Excadrill is also way too easy to stop.

Rain offense on the other hand, is something I still have problems with.
Tornelus and Dnite just keep pummeling me with Hurricanes x_x
I seriously don't know what to use. Not even Ferrothorn can take the Hurricanes, though Rain is a LOT more manageable now, since you don't insta-lose anymore >.>
 
I feel like I should briefly explain the purpose of my proposal.

Yes, it was meant to make weather and all related abilities an exception, meaning you COULD argue for Sandstream + Sand Throw ban...however, this would go entirely against the spirit of my proposal.

I did it to PREVENT a massive cascade of eventual bans. Ban Drizzle, then Drought goes, then either Sandstream or Excadrill / Landorus / Terrakion go...then Reuniclus and Latios and Mew and Wobbuffet and Garchomp and Moxie Salamence when its released...and Contrarian Jaroda / Eccentric Ditto never really stand a chance to stay...

Ultimately, propose an exception idea but with a pragmatic purpose: stop banning things.

I look at this metagame and I am literally able to make weatherless offense teams, weatherless stall teams, weatherless balance teams, rain stall / offense, sun stall / offense, sand stall / offense and stand a chance against any team. The current metagame's balance + Team Preview gives you a chance against any strategy.

Sandstream + Sand Power / Throw and Drought + Chlorophyll are NOT broken in the current iteration of the game. Bronzong, Gliscor, Skarmory, and Jirachi are having a much easier time getting on teams without having to worry about Swift Swimmers, and the Rain Offense Pokemon like Thundurus / Tornadus / Starmie / Rotom-W are all easily checked by Scarfers.

So please, don't look at my "exception" and attempt to justify your continued weather based bans. Yes, it is an exception, but that should only be called should the combination actually be broken.
 
Refer to the Reuniclus thread. People have come up with colorful, some viable, ways to check Reuniclus. Though I never seem to have a problem with it.

Also, Landuros has certainly been neutered. Less people are going to nominate for Landuros for Suspect, I believe, and he should have a comfortable place in the metagame. Obviously, there are more than a few ways to counter/check Landuros, so there shouldn't be too much dispute over it.

My two cents.

What I don't understand is how Land could be neutered that badly. There isn't all that much difference between 1.3 and 1.5 (well, there could be but outside of a few things, 1.3 and 1.5 will generally kill what needed to be kill or they're 2 hit koes regardless) and it is still freaking strong. The few things that killed it before still kill it and the things it could kill haven't changed either. I fail to understand why it is suddenly not a problem if it was before as it still pretty much is with only a slight change. And it is still far more threatening than Doryuzu as a whole (unless you're Doryuzu killer dies of course because we all know what happens when you're defenseless) as well as being unpredictable with Swords Dance, Rock Polish, Mixed, Bulk Up, and Special attacking sets (I could see it as a very viable Calm Minder with Sheer Force in Dream World because of it's strong special attack, the assumption of being a physical attacker, negating Life Orb recoil, and getting a special defense boost that might help it survive).

Landlos is still Far threatening as a poke.
 
You do notice the drop in power a lot. I've been running SS + Rand a bit and you notice that it just isn't killing like it used to. I thought it was borderline suspect before, but nothing to problematic now. The difference between 1.3 and 1.5 is huge.
 
The difference between 1.3 and 1.5 gets even bigger when you use a life orb or choice item because the numbers are multiplied, not added. Landlos isn't nearly as killer as it used to be. Not bad, just nowhere near broken.
 
Hey, I'm doing this already!

Team usage: mainly a team containing Reuniclus and Landorus
Record with said team: 6-1
High-profile enemies: 1 Reuniclus, 1 Latios, 1 Rain

Comments:
Man, I just threw this team together last night, and so far it's been pretty amazing. Even after a few mistakes, I'm still able to come out on top. This I like :) The one loss at the end was due to multiple amazing screw-ups on my part. The opponent also ironically had a Reuniclus.

As for other teams, well, I've had two completely terrible losses, lol. Sun seems to be so hard now; I got swept by a mono-Spiritomb O_O Stupid weak Venusaur. Then my rain team got swept by a Shell Smashed Nidoking X(

Um... Yeah, not much to talk about yet. Reuniclus is impossible to name :(
 
The difference between 1.5 and1.3 is 0.2. 1.5 is 1.15 times 1.3.
Man I have to juggle between, Smogon and PO server...And I have to ladder a lot on both
 
So please, don't look at my "exception" and attempt to justify your continued weather based bans. Yes, it is an exception, but that should only be called should the combination actually be broken.

As I said in the last thread, intentions and perceptions are not the same thing. If people feel that your proposal is grounds enough to create addenda with other bans, then they will do it.
 
Well, there should obviously be a very good reason to have other combo bans. The Swift Drizzle combo ban wasn't taken lightly; there were very good reasons to do it. I think that people would have a hard time actually justifying any other combo ban.
 
As I said in the last thread, intentions and perceptions are not the same thing. If people feel that your proposal is grounds enough to create addenda with other bans, then they will do it.

People can nominate whatever the hell they want in the nominations thread. Doesn't mean it'll actually get any support if people feel it's stupid. And even if it gets nominated, that doesn't mean it's going to be voted on.

As for this metagame, I'm leaning towards no suspects now. I personally don't find anything to be particularly broken now that crap like Manaphy is gone. Unless something starts to really piss me off in this metagame like Manaphy did in every other round, I'm probably going to say no suspects.
 
Latios is a fucking NIGHTMARE for Drizzle offense now, since the only rain abuser that outspeeds him, Starmie, cannot OHKO with Ice beam. There are only 6 pokemon in the entire OU tier able to switch in on Specs'd Draco Meteor (Chansey, Blissey, Heatran, Jirachi, Nattorei, Tyranitar), and none of them fit on offensive Drizzle teams (not to mention that he can 2HKO them regardless with a different move). It's nearing the point where the playstyle isn't viable competitively.

Anyways, tried out a Blaziken based team, and omg the guy needs 0 skill to use. Just slap a Baloon on him, switch in on Natt (it's everywhere), SD on the switch to Burungeru, Shadow Claw/Stone Edge it, and then sweep. With Baloon on, Dorry won't be able to revenge you, while Roob never does more than 50% with Mach punch. Whether you sweep or not depends on whether HJK hits or not. He's unstoppable, especially now that Drizzle teams have been nerfed and his STAB isn't weakened.

Half the teams i encounter are like this: Tyranitar/ Gliscor/ Nattwhorei/ Garchomp(or Landlos)/ Dorry(or Landlos)/ Water-type (or Latios). Is this supposed to be a healthy metagame?

If something could be done to slightly improve the metagame, that would be to let Swift Swimmers like Omastar, Armaldo and Seaking back to OU. Only Kingdra, Kabutops and Ludicolo were proven to be broken last suspect round, so the rest should be tested. This would make Drizzle offense slightly more viable despite Latios running rampant, since he'd be outsped by a larger margin of pokes. With Drizzle more common, we also have Blaziken and Landlos more limited, so this could avoid some future bans.
 
As for other teams, well, I've had two completely terrible losses, lol. Sun seems to be so hard now; I got swept by a mono-Spiritomb O_O Stupid weak Venusaur. Then my rain team got swept by a Shell Smashed Nidoking X(
That was my Nidoking!
So far I've found weather to be about where it was before the last round except they are more balanced against each other. Latios and Reuniclus continue to be dominant threats. I dont think they are broken but they are certainly powerful.
 
I feel like I should briefly explain the purpose of my proposal.

Yes, it was meant to make weather and all related abilities an exception, meaning you COULD argue for Sandstream + Sand Throw ban...however, this would go entirely against the spirit of my proposal.

I did it to PREVENT a massive cascade of eventual bans. Ban Drizzle, then Drought goes, then either Sandstream or Excadrill / Landorus / Terrakion go...then Reuniclus and Latios and Mew and Wobbuffet and Garchomp and Moxie Salamence when its released...and Contrarian Jaroda / Eccentric Ditto never really stand a chance to stay...

Ultimately, propose an exception idea but with a pragmatic purpose: stop banning things.

I look at this metagame and I am literally able to make weatherless offense teams, weatherless stall teams, weatherless balance teams, rain stall / offense, sun stall / offense, sand stall / offense and stand a chance against any team. The current metagame's balance + Team Preview gives you a chance against any strategy.

Sandstream + Sand Power / Throw and Drought + Chlorophyll are NOT broken in the current iteration of the game. Bronzong, Gliscor, Skarmory, and Jirachi are having a much easier time getting on teams without having to worry about Swift Swimmers, and the Rain Offense Pokemon like Thundurus / Tornadus / Starmie / Rotom-W are all easily checked by Scarfers.

So please, don't look at my "exception" and attempt to justify your continued weather based bans. Yes, it is an exception, but that should only be called should the combination actually be broken.
The clarification is greatly appreciated.

With that in mind, though, what about banning other things that are broken? Or even the same things, but in a different way? For example, rather than banning Swift Swim + Drizzle, banning, say, Kingdra + Drizzle. And others if that isn't enough.
 
It doesn't struggle since it doesn't run out of moves. I've encore'd it before and it just stuck around until it ran out of calm minds and used psycho shock instead (you can't encore struggle). If it switches out, wonderful. Otherwise...

I'll try to ladder for the first time tommorow. Today, I fooled around while playing brawl and watching some magical girl anime. Gonna take things more seriously after I'm done raging at critical hits destroying shinpora in every single match at all times of the day.
 
Actually, the most practical way to deal with it would be to encore its cms and then switch to a strong physical attacker to force him out(or just set up for free).

Even then, I'm sure that if you encore a calm mind and its pp runs out it has to struggle.
 
If I still had a strong, physical attacker left, that is what I usually did. I know from experience that when you try to encore a move that has run out of pp, encore will just fail. It also fails if you try to encore struggle.
 
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