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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 4 - Blaze of Glory

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Choice specs give you pseudo +1 modifier that Directly enchance your stats instead of giving it a modifier

Example

SpA 400 with spec = 600

After DM it hit -2 and halfed become 300

However Modifier enchance stats and give a modifier

EX

400 SPA + 1 = 600

Use DM. +1 - 2 = -1

400 with -1 = 0.75 x 400 = 300. Same value but it now have -2 do note every +1 with specs give bigger boost
 
What I hate about Excadrill is the fact that you have to run weak pieces of shit, excluding Azumarill and Conkelderp, which are easy setup fodder for a lot of things. Let's see now, what checks Excadrill?

Gliscor - A weak piece of shit
Skarmory - A weak piece of shit
Virizion - Not that weak, but then again, it needs to be in mint condition to check LO Excadrill
Hippowdon - Not that weak, but is total setup fodder for a lot of things (Particularly entry hazards)
Tangrowth - A weak piece of shit
Bronzong - A weak piece of shit

See the pattern?
 
Excadrill

For the record I'd like to see this thing get banned, but I don't think it will happen just yet.


'Excadrill is Over Powered in my opinion but it is far less noticeable because it's much easier to counter one Pokemon than a whole entity of 'Drizzle' sweepers. Excadrill and Garchomp are the only sand sweepers both having similar counters i.e Skarmory, Gliscor and Brongzong, which therefore makes it's generally easier to counter than Drizzle. The reason why Garchomp's getting axed quicker is due to the fact it can beat its counters through hax which makes it more noticeably broken. Whereas Excadrill is fine and as long as you have a 'wall counter' left on your team.

(No Pokemon is faster than Excadrill in SS - not even choice scarf revenge killers. It has enough bulk to survive crucial hits and cannot be OHKO'd by OU priority moves such as iron fist mach punch Conkledurr. It resists SR, is immune to toxic and can't be paralysed/crippled by t-wave. The only way to effectively beat it is through one of its counters i.e Gliscor/Skarmory/Brongzong/Rotom-W. As long as you have one of these counters and it's still alive don't worry you'll be fine).

The truth is Excadrill is broken in its own right, however it is less noticeable and is manageable as long as your counter(s) is still alive. Additionally, we in fact generally over prepare for this Pokemon and thus it appears to be less threatening.'


The other problem with Garchomp is its superior type coverage. While excadrill can only use earthquake, rock slide, and sometimes x-scissor, Garchomp gets OUTRAGE (hitting everything but steel), and the best steel-killing coverage moves ever: fire and ground. There is no viable pokemon that resists all of those attacks. That, and garchomp has swampert's bulk, making revenging it harder than it looks.


'Well it's not a debate on who is more broken Garchomp or Excadrill.

But
Excadrill (ground typing wise) hits everything hard but Flying (immume), Grass and Bug anyway.

Pure Bug typing isn't used in OU and Bug/Steel takes neutral damage from stab EQ. Grass types are either hit hard with a super effective x-scizzor (except for those who are Fighting/Grass in OU) or hit hard with a 810att (SD) base 102 Return.

As for flying types they can be hit hard with a super effective rock slide.

If you noticed the four counters I've listed (Skarmory/Brongzong/Gliscor/Rotom-W), can handle Excadrill due to their typing or ability. Flying/Steel and Flying/Ground can not be hit super effectively and Brongzong and Rotom-W have levitate so cannot be hit with stab EQ.

Yes Garchomp is superior coverage wise but Excadrill is hitting almost everything in OU hard too.

(Forgetting about Hax) Garchomp can be revenge killed in other ways though because it is not the fastest sweeper, therefore you don't need to reply on priority. Excadrill cannot be out speed by any Pokemon in SS, including Scarf revenge killers therefore you have to reply on wall counters or priority. But like I've said OU priority doesn't kill it anyway. Max Att Conkledurr doesn't even OHKO with Iron Fist.

Finally, like it's not like we should be comparing the two. You don't say something is less broken, because 'this Pokemon' is more broken than it.

EDIT: Let's drop the Excadrill topic for now. I'd like to see it get banned, but I don't think now is the time for it.'
 
Oh my goodness.

Specs gives the stat a x1.5 boost directly, but not a +1 modifier, so when you use DM you go to -2 but with a specs boost, which is x0.5x(1.5) = x0.75. If you're at +1, say from a Calm Mind and you use DM, you drop to -1, which is x0.66

Check it.

For example you can baton pass +6 boost to a pokemon with Specs and it'll have x4 from the modifier and x1.5 from the specs giving it a total boost of x6, whereas if you guys were right it would be limited to +6 and not have the extra boost
 
Hmm? it's taking place under a sub-section of the Policy Review Board, Blind Voting. You can't see what people are posting until the votes are all counted up, which would take place today at 11:59 PM.

I am assuming the Pokemon Votes would take place right after the Non-Pokemon Votes.
 
Prognostic:

Drizzle Banned/Suspect
A lot of people hate to see it (me either) and is an awesome ability that power-up a lot of mons even without SwSw

Drought Not Banned
I want it to go but is not so powerful like SS or Drizzle so he stays.

Sand Stream Not Banned
The abusers go for it.

Deoxys-S Banned
Hope everyone wants to limit the SmashPassing process and a very usefull sweep/support.

Latios Banned/Suspect
We found a lot of counters for he but he can be really frustating for someone.

Thundurus Banned/Suspect
The balance hanging from the part of the ban seeing how many people hate this genius. Personally i don't have very real problem with it, but i see that it can be a threat

Excadrill Suspect/Not Banned
There aren't a lot of immedite counters for Exca, but you can create the situations to beat him by keep in mind that your opponent have him in his team. Personally i want him to go too with Garchomp.

Garchomp Banned
See Exca & Sand Stream.
Everyone hates to see him in the Team view and everyone know that if you get a miss or you give a chance to him to setup, you're fucked, extremely fucked.
 
Hmm, I guess 'Blind Voting' is the fairest way to do it, in order to ensure no one is influenced by other voters.

The only thing I don't fully understand is, and please excuse me if I'm wrong, that is if the 100 top players are voting, and lets say one or two people (or more) for example laddered with Drizzle teams, what would make them want to go against it and ban it? (I mean is it not somewhat biased.)

Hope that didn't come off as rude. It was just something I needed to ask.
 
Hmm, I guess 'Blind Voting' is the fairest way to do it, in order to ensure no one is influenced by other voters.

The only thing I don't fully understand is, and please excuse me if I'm wrong, that is if the 100 top players are voting, and lets say one or two people (or more) for example laddered with Drizzle teams, what would make them want to ban it? (I mean is it not somewhat biased.)

Hope that didn't come off as rude. It was just something I needed to ask.

I think a lot of the idea is you use the suspects and then use that insight to decide if they're overpowered or whatever
 
ehh I hope Deoxys S stays. Its not the only good spiker in the game and banning it does not even get rid of Smash Pass since I see Espeon more now setting up Dual Screens. On the other hand Thundurus just has to go since fuck all can beat it bar a Scarfer(and even then if its a "supporter set" your Scarfer just got paralysed)
 
Hmm, I guess 'Blind Voting' is the fairest way to do it, in order to ensure no one is influenced by other voters.

The only thing I don't fully understand is, and please excuse me if I'm wrong, that is if the 100 top players are voting, and lets say one or two people (or more) for example laddered with Drizzle teams, what would make them want to go against it and ban it? (I mean is it not somewhat biased.)

Hope that didn't come off as rude. It was just something I needed to ask.
I think that if you see that (for example) the drizzle team you playing is hard countered by the opponents teams and when you face another drizzle team and you encounter hard times you think that Drizzle CAN be too powerful for the meta and break it, so you can vote to ban it even if you use it.
The more striking example is Garchomp. You use him and you see that with one miss in the sand, you hit like a truck, same thing if you face him in the opponent team. Brake the meta, so: ban.

@ginga: i think that for now, Espeon is more used to be a Smash Recipient and no a Screens supporter like him was in the past. Deoxys do the job extremely well nad let you to smash pass (yeah, that's not the only one but is one of the best if not THE best)
 
ehh id disagree with you there Ewil.

Espeon cannot really be stopped by Taunt Thundurus (or Whimsicott) nor does it have to waste a turn Taunting to prevent being Taunted/Roared out etc etc. The opponent finds it more difficult to spam status against Espeon nor can they set up Stealth Rocks or Spikes to hinder your team. Espeon can run a set like Rain Dance/Light Screen/Reflect/Fillar and switch to something like Gorebyss (which gets a Swift Swim speed boost) who then passes. Personally I also see Garchomp more as a Smash Recipient than Espeon
 
Espeon is a good recipient for the same matter that he is a good screener: his ability.
He can be both, i don't want to say that is not a good screener but Deoxys can be too and, in addiction, he can be a fast sweeper and a good supporter.
 
Considering the accuracy of Focus Blast =/ I highly doubt its a RELIABLE way of dealing with Scizor. Also given that Reiunculus is usually at the last silver of his life after a U-turn, bug bite, crunch (with a boost ranging from most likely a CB or LO) and that they all outspeed that pretty much keeps Reinculus in check. Nonary game pretty much nailed it in saying he really does need to have the conditions just right to work. And besides Reiunculus has had TONS of discussions already you can just leaf through the archive unless you have something new to bring to the table - highly doubtful given that the bans for far haven't exactly changed the way he's played or made him centralizing etc - then I don't see much reason to bring him up again.

Banded scizor that don't run bug bite are shaky counters at best. Max damage U-turn does about 85% Bug bite however, has a minimum damage roll of 99%

If a scizor switches into your reuniclus the smartest thing to do is recover. If it u-turns out you'll be back up to 65%ish and can recover back to full health if/while it switches back in.

Reuniclus needs a life orb or one calm mind boost if it wants to 2HKO sciz. He actually handles the bug pretty well. Calm mind first turn and you're set.

What I hate about Excadrill is the fact that you have to run weak pieces of shit, excluding Azumarill and Conkelderp, which are easy setup fodder for a lot of things. Let's see now, what checks Excadrill?

Gliscor - A weak piece of shit
Skarmory - A weak piece of shit
Virizion - Not that weak, but then again, it needs to be in mint condition to check LO Excadrill
Hippowdon - Not that weak, but is total setup fodder for a lot of things (Particularly entry hazards)
Tangrowth - A weak piece of shit
Bronzong - A weak piece of shit

See the pattern?

Methinks you like hyper offense a little too much :P
 
What I hate about Excadrill is the fact that you have to run weak pieces of shit, excluding Azumarill and Conkelderp, which are easy setup fodder for a lot of things. Let's see now, what checks Excadrill?

Gliscor - A weak piece of shit
Skarmory - A weak piece of shit
Virizion - Not that weak, but then again, it needs to be in mint condition to check LO Excadrill
Hippowdon - Not that weak, but is total setup fodder for a lot of things (Particularly entry hazards)
Tangrowth - A weak piece of shit
Bronzong - A weak piece of shit

See the pattern?

What a subjective post.
 
What I hate about Excadrill is the fact that you have to run weak pieces of shit, excluding Azumarill and Conkelderp, which are easy setup fodder for a lot of things. Let's see now, what checks Excadrill?

Gliscor - A weak piece of shit
Skarmory - A weak piece of shit
lol
 
What a subjective post.

Oh yes, it is quite subjective. However, it really is disappointing that my Excadrill counter can only muster up something like 45% on an uninvested Salamence with Ice Fang. Come on, I know Mence has Intimidate, but that is still a 4x effective move. A weak piece of shit, indeed.
 
Shrang I really hope you're not being serious here. Gliscor and Skarmory are "weak pieces of shit"? According to your post pretty much every wall in the game is a "weak piece of shit" since they're usually not that powerful offensively and can be set up on by certain Pokemon that they can't counter.
 
Shrang I really hope you're not being serious here. Gliscor and Skarmory are "weak pieces of shit"? According to your post pretty much every wall in the game is a "weak piece of shit" since they're usually not that powerful offensively and can be set up on by certain Pokemon that they can't counter.

They are weak, you can't deny they mostly have no attack power. I may as well call every wall "weak pieces of shit" since that's what they are. They aren't renowned for their attacking prowess. I'm just annoyed that when I'm building a team, I have to pack a wall (or pack rain or sun) that can't attack very well just for Excadrill or I'd get completely swept.

EDIT: Take my posts on Excadrill as a grain of salt, they aren't supposed to be used to prove anything. I'm just venting some frustration. My rant is finished, continue on your merry way.
 
You don't have to pack a counter for Excadrill if you don't want to. Bloo and I have built successfull teams that didn't have a dedicated Excadrill counter. If you don't pack a specific Excadrill counter you just have to make sure to be able to revenge kill it and\or to not give it the opportunity to set up. Of course, if we decide to ban drizzle\drought then countering Excadrill will become more and more diffcult, but that's another story.

I may as well call every wall "weak pieces of shit" since that's what they are

Your definition of "weak piece of shit" is really subjective and I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of us disagree with you on it.
 
What I hate about Excadrill is the fact that you have to run weak pieces of shit, excluding Azumarill and Conkelderp, which are easy setup fodder for a lot of things. Let's see now, what checks Excadrill?

Gliscor - A weak piece of shit
Skarmory - A weak piece of shit
Virizion - Not that weak, but then again, it needs to be in mint condition to check LO Excadrill
Hippowdon - Not that weak, but is total setup fodder for a lot of things (Particularly entry hazards)
Tangrowth - A weak piece of shit
Bronzong - A weak piece of shit

See the pattern?

Obviously, you fail to realise the Stall was the strongest playtype in 4th Gen, and is still pretty good in the Gen as well, when used by a competant player.

And, Gliscor is weak? There is such as thing as offensive Gliscor, you know, Swords Dance + Base 110 STAB = Not weak, especially with STAB Earthquake backing it up with brilliant coverage. There's a reason why Glisor is used so much :/

And Tangrowth is hardly weak either. It actually has Base 100 Attack and Base 110 Sp.attack.

It's not bad either, especially with Regenerator making it more usable, it's just slow and lacks special defense.

LOL @ Skarm being weak. It's a wall. If you seriously think Skarm is garbage, GTH out of this thread and play against a stall team.

Also:

ehh I hope Deoxys S stays. Its not the only good spiker in the game

Ferrothorn and Skarmory and Forretress say hi.

Seriously, what is up with people calling Skarmory bad right now?

--

Anyway, you don't need a dedicated Excadrill counter, but you do need a check. I generally run Azumarill, but not only to counter Excadrill. It does a massive number on Tyraniatar, Ferrothorn, Terrakion, Landlos, Volcarona, Heatran, Thunderus, and Tornadus, all very major threats in the metagame. It can also easily revenge things such as Gengar.
 
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