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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

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What do you all think of Hydreigon at this point? It seems to have dethroned Latios somewhat, as I see it all the time, but rarely see Latios anymore.

Is Modest more popular than Timid, or am I just delusional?
 
JT Swift said:
What do you all think of Hydreigon at this point? It seems to have dethroned Latios somewhat, as I see it all the time, but rarely see Latios anymore.

Is Modest more popular than Timid, or am I just delusional?
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Well one of the major advantages it has over Latios is the fact that it isn't pursuit bait and beats both Tyranitar/Scizor, assuming it has enough HP to survive a bullet punch. Even though the aforementioned mons run rampant in OU, I think Latios's speed tier is what allows it to outclass Hydreigon, considering their Special Attack stats are nearly similar, and Latios can also deal with Blissey, whereas Hydreigon really can't, unless Focus Blast ends up critting. I still tend to see Latios more, but Hydreigon is definitely prevalent.
 
Ummm im pretty sure hydreigon didnt dethroned latios. Hydreigon is just a slower and weaker form of latios that is also weak to the common priority of mach punch. I dont think hydreigon will be taking latios's spot any time soon unless its sent back to ubers which will probably happen adventually. Although hydregion isnt terrible it just gets outclassed at the moment.
 
Hydreigon is seeing more use because there are so many Tyranitars running around, and Latios gets destroyed by Pursuit. Hydreigon has 3 things over Latios:
1. It's not weak to Pursuit
2. It has much better coverage because of Focus Blast + STAB Dark Pulse (It even has Flamethrower and Earth Power)
3. It has higher special attack, as Hydreigon can run Modest while Latios is forced to run Timid.
 
Mix hydreigon people, cmon. Earthquake lets it beat Heatran and weakened ttar without relying on focus blast. Yet people still insist on using focus blast to hit them (and it doesn't even OHKO calm tran or chople tar)
 
TheMasterOfOz said:
Hydreigon is seeing more use because there are so many Tyranitars running around, and Latios gets destroyed by Pursuit. Hydreigon has 3 things over Latios:
1. It's not weak to Pursuit
2. It has much better coverage because of Focus Blast + STAB Dark Pulse (It even has Flamethrower and Earth Power)
3. It has higher special attack, as Hydreigon can run Modest while Latios is forced to run Timid.
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Don't forget U-turn. U-turn is huge.

Hydreigon really only needs Switcheroo and Roost to surpass Latios. The only things Latios would have on Hydreigon then would be the speed and Fighting resistance.
 
The only reason I use Latios on a lot of teams instead of Hydreigon is because of the former's base 110 speed, and the latter's base 98 speed. That, and Latios has a useful Fighting resist. Otherwise, I'd use Hydreigon since it has great moves like U Turn, Fire Blast and even Focus Blast should you need it.
 
I admit that I am a bit more unnerved facing Hydreigon than Latios, since it has to potential to break through a wider variety of teams. 98 Speed isn't that bad either. Latios users, both good and bad, seem to have a mentality: "I'm going to spam Draco Meteor, even though I know you have a Jirachi / Ferrothorn / Tyranitar! And then I risk my team into total jeopardy!" But then with Hydreigon, you can never guess whether it's baiting or using Specs, and then you get roasted with the appropriate move.

Also, mixed Hydreigon sounds wonderful. I might try it sometime. And in other news, why would you use Hidden Power Ice Lucario if +2 Shadow Ball's already doing damage with Stealth Rock?
 
HP Ice can OHKO some important things like Gliscor and Dragonite :I

LO Taunt Hydreigon is beast, I made a cheap team with it and mixmence and it added a shit ton of pressure on the rival, specially if you only pack one steel type, is way to easy to predict with them if you have enough experience, Draco Meteor?, fuck that shit, eat my Fire Blast, now your Jirachi is doomed, and your team too, even in rain Ferrothorn doesn't enjoy Fire Blasts and now Surf is 1.5x more powerful, basically balloon heatran in sun is the only one who can take repeated hits from Hydre, and with MixMence waiting in the wings the other team will have a hard time, just be sure to pack some Wish support or Roost on Mence to live longer '-'
 
Yeah, I'm quite honestly surprised at the lack of mix hydreigon. it has a great mix movepool in Draco Meteor/EQ/Fire Blast/U-turn and base 115 Atk is nothing to piss at, but people always make him dedicated special. it's quite frustrating.
 
SD lucario is a great sweeper, it's not that hard to get a free turn to set up a sd and destroy weakened teams, most things that can take a +2 close combat or can outspeeding and ko can't take a +2 extremespeed especially late game. The only problem is that if jellicent Walls the ice punch set, and gengar beats all your sets, but paired up with something like scarftar lucario will sweep most teams as they are just not prepared for him as he is like 40th in usage.
 
HP Ice is awful on Lucario, you need Vacuum Wave to hit Excadrill and you already OHKO Gliscor and 2HKO Dragonite. If you run HP Ice over Shadow Ball or Aura Sphere you're getting screwed over by Celebi (unstab HP Ice not doing much trololol), Jellicent, the Lati twins (though they beat you anyways), Heatran, Special Defensive TTar (god losing to a Tyranitar with a Lucario would be so embarrassing.)
So basically Lucario has 4MS syndrome on every set it runs and we all have to deal with it yada yada yada.

Mixed Hydreigon is a boss but not being able to 2HKO Blissey is :/.

I'm going to try running that Hitmontop + Gyara core pretty soon as Gyarados definitely appreciates a spinner, and both beat Excadrill. Having Hitmontop as my spinner also means I can afford to run Ferrothorn over Forretress and consequently have better coverage on my team.

But I've been finding Resttalk Gyarados to be mediocre with all of the lost turns. Wish support, perhaps?
 
Eggbert said:
Mix hydreigon people, cmon. Earthquake lets it beat Heatran and weakened ttar without relying on focus blast. Yet people still insist on using focus blast to hit them (and it doesn't even OHKO calm tran or chople tar)
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Earth Power, dammit. Why does everyone forget about Earth Power? D:

Modest LO Hydreigon vs. 252/252+ Heatran: 97.4% - 115%. He doesn't need EQ >:(

Oh and EQ doesn't OHKO Specially Defensive Ttar anyway, so even less of a reason. I do admit Ground/Fighting is bad coverage, but you don't need attack EVs when you have U-turn to get you the hell out of the way, since Ttar carries superpower. Sure you could invest in attack for U-turn only, but then you lose your power advantage over Latios, which sucks.

Honestly though, the choice between Hydreigon and Latios depends on your team. If you laugh at fighting types in general, then Hydreigon will only keep you from having a pursuit weakness, will lure said fighting types, and pack a bit more of a punch than Latios (modest vs. timid). On the other hand, if you think Tyranitar is nothing more than plushy set-up fodder, then you have no reason to not run the fastest dragon in the game.

Of course team building gets more complex than that but it really only boils down to how much you hate fighting types versus how much you hate Ttar. if both take you out though, well, you may need to reconsider your team.
 
What you think is the best playstyle at the moment (offense/stall/offense-spike) ? And the best team type ? (drizzle team/SS team/BP team etc)
 
Downf4ll said:
Earth Power, dammit. Why does everyone forget about Earth Power? D:

Modest LO Hydreigon vs. 252/252+ Heatran: 97.4% - 115%. He doesn't need EQ >:(

Oh and EQ doesn't OHKO Specially Defensive Ttar anyway, so even less of a reason. I do admit Ground/Fighting is bad coverage, but you don't need attack EVs when you have U-turn to get you the hell out of the way, since Ttar carries superpower. Sure you could invest in attack for U-turn only, but then you lose your power advantage over Latios, which sucks.

Honestly though, the choice between Hydreigon and Latios depends on your team. If you laugh at fighting types in general, then Hydreigon will only keep you from having a pursuit weakness, will lure said fighting types, and pack a bit more of a punch than Latios (modest vs. timid). On the other hand, if you think Tyranitar is nothing more than plushy set-up fodder, then you have no reason to not run the fastest dragon in the game.

Of course team building gets more complex than that but it really only boils down to how much you hate fighting types versus how much you hate Ttar. if both take you out though, well, you may need to reconsider your team.
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It's not that we forget about Earth Power, it's that running the move forces you to forgo Dark Pulse, which is something Hydreigon has over Latios because it can now defeat Jellicent, Reuniclus, etc.

I honestly think the choice comes down to whether or not you have enough checks to the 100-110 speed range. If you don't, Latios is probably the better option for you. Latios may resist fighting, but it doesn't particularly take their attacks well at an average 80/80 defenses, and most fighting types have HJK or CC to really put the hurt on despite the resist. It's advantage lies in checking Terrakion, Salamence, Mienshao, etc.

Hydreigon is much more difficult to deal with, in my opinion, because it runs on higher base power moves. Sponging Latios' HP Fire once it has used DM is easy, but Fire Blast can still pack a punch at -2 from Hydreigon. And while Latios can outrun things that Hydreigon can't, those same things can't switch into Hydreigon at all, so the opponent is left relying on the likes of Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and Tyranitar to sponge 120 BP attacks when they were expecting 70 or 95 BP moves.

Apples to Oranges, really.
 
Hydreigon users also have to pack ectra checks to salamence, fast celebi, jirachi, mew, conkeldurr etc, witch is why ill always run lati@s. Hydreign just doesnt check nearly as much and cant beat blissey.
 
is anyone else annoyed by the irritating presence of Jellicent + Latios? Jellicent can taunt WoW the bulky steel types and beats out the pokemon Latios has troubles with like Scizor, Jirachi, and Ferrothron. the only other porblems are T-tar and possibly Gengar if he wins the speed ties. not too mention Latios can trickspecs pokemon like Blissey or the CM set can just setup. Jelli + Latios can be pretty annoying imo, and the things that do beat this duo out, well. there's 4 other pokemon for that.
 
Boondocker said:
Hydreigon users also have to pack ectra checks to salamence, fast celebi, jirachi, mew, conkeldurr etc, witch is why ill always run lati@s. Hydreign just doesnt check nearly as much and cant beat blissey.
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Latios users also have to predict an inbounds from tyranitar, scizor, pursuiters, etc, which is why i'll always run hydreigon. Latios doesn't kill nearly as much and can't beat:Jellicent, reuiniclus, chansey, nattorei(In rain and in general), jirachi...i can go on.

Oh yeah, and if you have up max hazards it can beat blissey by stalling it out. Which isn't hard to do, since blissey switch-ins are obvious and it's complete setup bait.

Using latios means that you will inevitably lose it to something completely out of your control. Hydreigon can't be trapped in any way, ever. It can't even be wobb-trapped because it's a dark type with a specially based move, so mirror coat fails.
 
Oh and EQ doesn't OHKO Specially Defensive Ttar anyway, so even less of a reason. I do admit Ground/Fighting is bad coverage, but you don't need attack EVs when you have U-turn to get you the hell out of the way, since Ttar carries superpower. Sure you could invest in attack for U-turn only, but then you lose your power advantage over Latios, which sucks.
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EQ is for ttar. DM + EQ should always OHKO. Just make sure you aren't facing scarftar.

Also I agree with Boondocker, the base speed makes the difference between checking stuff like Terrakion and Landorus and losing to them. Taunt does wear Blissey down though. Tehy you can wear down almost all of those with the LO Latios and a bit of guessing via team preview.
 
It's pretty hard to wear down a jirachi, jellicent i'll give you but still, chansey is equally easy from both sides, natt i'll also give you.

But t-tar and scizor will pursuit you eventually.Unless the user is a moron.
 
Jirachi that run fire punch or stealth rock > protect lose once they switch into Hp fire because they can't protect against your switch in. Rachi with protect is pretty solid but there is magnezone and spikes which will eventually wear it down. Skarmory is also an excellent teammate for Lati@s in general for that. Ttar and Scizor are 2HKOd by surf with a bit of SR damage. Chansey will wall LO latios pretty badly yea even with psyshock unless there are alot of spikes up.
 
Lol, but they switch in after a kill then what?

Besides, hyd is walled by none of them, except with a lot of hazards, but same thing applies there.

And rachi can body-slam on the switchin instead of wishing, then what? You got a powerful attacker that can take down a 50% hp rachi that doesn't mind being paralysed? Only one i can think of is conk and he's not that strong either.
 
badabing said:
I know someone brought up a Conkeldurr + Gyara core to take on Excadrill, but what do you guys think of Hitmontop + Gyara instead? Dual intimidates, rapid spin support for gyara, from a defensive standpoint it looks a lot more solid.
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I've used that combo quite a lot in past (actually, I used Hitmontop + Salamence, but same idea), and it's good. It's good on balanced and defensive teams, but is pretty ordinary at getting you momentum that you need on an offensive team. Same goes for Conkeldurr + Intimidating flying type, actually.
 
Boondocker said:
Hydreigon users also have to pack ectra checks to salamence, fast celebi, jirachi, mew, conkeldurr etc, witch is why ill always run lati@s. Hydreign just doesnt check nearly as much and cant beat blissey.
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Taunt & Crunch. You just beat Blissey & even Jellicent & Reuniclus (assuming Reuni switched in on Draco Meteor) Hydreigon is a very good mixed Stall-breaker but most people don't realize that as they just think "lol You're not Latios".

Fun fact: Out of all the Dragons in the game, only the non-legendary 5th Gen Dragons learn Taunt and every one of them (even their Pre-evos) learn it.
 
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