np: RU Stage 3 - Like a Boss

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I don't use Gligar.

I was only describing why Amarillo considers it a "safe switch in".

I know that Gligar has no hope of beating any sub roost variants, but he can beat any other sets.

I don't use Roost on Honch, and I've seen plenty without Roost.

I usually play around him and revenge kill.

@Kniteowl, sorry. I haven't been playing much in the last week. If almost all Honch sets are really SubRoost now, as SJCrew says, don't use Gligar.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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The one's you saw without Roost were probably mine :3 But yeah, 99% of Krow's now are SubRoost. MixKrow is almost non-existent.
 
-Edit- ^ Ninja'd



-I mean this in the nicest way possible, but make sure you know what you are talking about.

Some of the biggest draws of Lilligant: A Booster that can beat Unaware Quag with out trying and access to a confusion free Petal Dance via Own Tempo.

I would also generally use Giga Drain over Petal Dance because I've always been a fan of Health Drain moves, but it's a given that Own Tempo will be chosen when using Petal Dance. Yes, all it has over Giga Drain is power, but 120 BP vs 75 makes a compelling argument any day.
Ah, my mistake. You see, when I'm on the smogon server asking around what would make a good lilligant counter, and I mention that I have a water absorb quag on my team, they scream bloody murder that I should use unaware quag, just for the purpose of lilligant. And I'm not talking a few people are yelling here. The entire chat takes one look at my name and thinks "are you a moron?".

And I completely forgot about own tempo there. My mistake. But still, I would like it if I could have the chance of recovering my health.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
it sort of frustrates me that the council voted not to ban Krow. The problem with krow is that he has a handful of counters, yes, but absolutely NO CHECKS.

usually if you don't run a specific counter to a Pokemon, you get get around it by outspeeding it or predicting around it. With Krow, if you don't have a counter to it you get around it by hitting the little "X" in the top left corner of the window before you're humiliatingly swept. Of course, i'm oversimplifying the ease with which krow can sweep if it has no counter to come in, but only slightly. It's fairly impossible to stop.
 

marilli

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Well the Gligar I was thinking was more like Taunt / Toxic / EQ / Roost. Krow switches on SR, and 1 vs. 1 against Gligar will almost always Substitute. (knowing that Toxic's the worst it usually does) You taunt instead, and he's around at 50% considering Sub + SR damage. Now he's forced to Brave Bird himself to death for 3 turns as you Roost, or switch out at 50% health, which will turn into 25% health as soon as he switches in again later. Now his Krow is in precarious situation and is almost a non-factor.

Well I can understand SR on him, in which case Gligar is admittedly a set-up bait.

@Pwnemon: I don't understand how people think only Steelix, Aggron, and Rhydon are only true stops to the MoxieKrow set. Utility Kabutops and Omastar stuff the Moxie set, and can beat it in general unless it carries HP Grass (which idk why but isn't even a slash on the MixKrow set) Faster Encore users are literally 'checks.' (and checks only) Entei has Espeed, but can't switch into Brave Bird. LO Krook can also take a sucker punch but cannot switch into Brave Bird as well. Substitute (especially Sub + WOW) Rotom can beat it, but it isn't guaranteed. You can still lose if you get outplayed for 5 turns straight, so it's just a check. You know Krow has counters, so I showed you some checks as well. Now don't you dare go "but those are all shaky checks! Can't switch in at all. Ban Krow" because you asked for examples of checks, and I give you some.
 
^ Exactly. Like I've said, anything with a good amount of bulk, a resistence to Brave Bird, and without a weakness to Sucker Punch can easily check MoxieKrow if it has a decent attack that can break its subs. Hell, even stuff like Klingklang and Elektross can check the thing if it doesn't have boosts under its belt. The trick to beating MoxieKrow is to prevent it from boosting in the first place. Keep it from taking out your frailer Pokemon, weaken it with faster priority (which isn't hard mind you, Entei is a fantastic example of this), or just keep it from Subbing and you've got a fairly easy job of beating it. There are too many ways around Krow for it to be truly "broken".
 
Amarillo said:
Well the Gligar I was thinking was more like Taunt / Toxic / EQ / Roost. Krow switches on SR, and 1 vs. 1 against Gligar will almost always Substitute. (knowing that Toxic's the worst it usually does) You taunt instead, and he's around at 50% considering Sub + SR damage. Now he's forced to Brave Bird himself to death for 3 turns as you Roost, or switch out at 50% health, which will turn into 25% health as soon as he switches in again later. Now his Krow is in precarious situation and is almost a non-factor.

Well I can understand SR on him, in which case Gligar is admittedly a set-up bait.
Interesting, guess I didn't think that through, looks like Honchkrow has 4 move slot syndrome, if only it could put taunt somewhere to take care of Gligar from taunting back.

If you did carry taunt you'd most likely either have to give up Substitute or Roost.
 
^ Bingo. That's another excellent reason against banning. MoxieKrow isn't broken because it can be beaten fairly easily (or at least not with great difficulty) no matter what it runs. Substitute protects Honchkrow from status and gives it leeway against priority moves, but makes it easy to Taunt. Taunt protects against Status as well as Taunt itself, but leaves it open to attacks (especially faster priority) and makes healing with Roost more difficult. Pursuit can help gain more KO's (and thus boosts), but leaves it open to just about everything.
 
I'll have to play more with and against Honchkrow before I can determine it's broken or not

I haven't played much RU except for early RU with things like Yanmega hanging around and it was mostly Mixkrow dealing damage, I always consider Mixkrow to be a pain to get around, It's always got something to take at least 1 or 2 of my pokemon out, and usually my counter/check and once that's gone, it's more or less a sweep but that was back then.
 
@Texas and SJCrew. Dang, I guess SubRoostMoxie got a lot more popular than I thought.

@ kniteowl, yes he has 4mss pretty bad. I don't use Roost so I can carry pursuit. If Honchkrow w/Moxie could have Roost, Sub, Brave Bird, Sucker Punch, Pursuit, and Heat Wave, he'd be so broken.

I don't use Honch as a final sweeper. I use him midgame to do massive damage to certain special walls. Most expect me to Sub up on a switch only to get blasted by Pursuit and I just switch out on the Aggron/Steelix that usually comes in.
 

Nails

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subwisp rotom is an effective honchkrow check. aggron/rhydon work. qwilfish can switch in and set up a couple layers. omastar and kabutops poop on it. steelix hard counters. anything with rock blast can ohko it through a sub (minccino is a solid offensive mon and if you slap subs on the set you get a prediction war). really, it's not that hard to beat guys.

i 100% agree with daedalus, ru is currently balanced. my opinion could change before the round is over, but nothing is overpowered atm.
 
I'm really surprised not to see more weather teams this round. Seeing as SmashPass was banned, weather can reign more freely. Sun, Rain, and especially Hail are all very dangerous. I've been using a new hail team with good success, the only real hindrance being Toxic Spikes :(
 
With SmashPass officially gone, I think that RU will have a pretty healthy meta. It will be interesting to see what happens when Hippopotas drops into RU territory, but for now, let's enjoy the balance.

If Sand Rush Sandslash becomes popular and Sandslash never drops down to NU, I will cry
 

Nails

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Qwilfish/Uxie/Gligar is pretty much the standard core atm, and it's quite effective. The tier is pretty much all physical attackers, and those three can set up all three hazards while walling basically everything physically based.

So let's talk about what breaks this core. Spinners are a good place to start; though sandslash and the hitmons are beaten by all three, they can at least spin. cryogonal can beat all three but is manhandled by all the physical attackers and the sr weakness. Other stuff can power through it, like strong special attackers. sceptile, moltres, and blizzspammers can overpower the core as ru doesn't have any dominant special walls. whats some other stuff to beat this core?
 
I've seen evolite natu piss a few people off, but it's just so weak. I haven't done any calculations, but I've got to assume that qwilfish is 2hkoing it with waterfall and poison jab. Not to mention how it's dead weight when the opponent's hazard layer/status inducer is gone.
It has some uses, but there is so much better stuff.

Edit ok I did some calcs. Most defensive Qwilfish will probably only be getting a 3HKO and it can even survive a scarf Primeape stone edge. It's actually a little bulkier than I thought, but still not quite good enough imo.
 
The main point is, what is Natu gonna be doing back? The answer is nothing, especially with those pitiful 70 / 70 offenses. Natu's one and only job is to reflect entry hazards, and after that, it becomes a deadweight (unless you run dual screens or something idk), but point being, I'd much rather have something with Taunt rather than waste a teamslot with Natu.
 
^ Hey, don't mock it 'till you've tried it. Eviolite Natu is actually a fairly useful support Pokemon, and a great Dual Screens user. It plays a bit like Dual Screens Uxie; it has much weaker defenses and it is slower, but Magic Bounce is great and Natu can heal itself with Roost or Wish as well. U-Turn is also a good move for keeping up your team's momentum. It's pretty much outclassed by Uxie in every way, but it isn't actually bad.

Qwilfish/Uxie/Gligar is pretty much the standard core atm, and it's quite effective. The tier is pretty much all physical attackers, and those three can set up all three hazards while walling basically everything physically based.
Life Orb Manectric combined with a somewhat offensive variant of Rapid Spin Sandslash is what I use personally. Uxie can't do much to Sandslash while Manectric gets a free switch-in on Thunder Wave (plus a Special Attack boost) thanks to Lightningrod. Meanwhile, both Gligar and Qwilfish are OHKOed by Manectric's attacks (after SR for Gligar). Sandslash has a Lum Berry so it can spin away Toxic Spikes easily enough. Drapion is also a good Pokemon; absorbs Toxic Spikes, Taunts the rest, and Crunch is SE on Uxie. Not to mention that it can lay its own T-Spikes and Whirlwind out troublesome opponents.

Galvantula also works well in Manectric's place. It has a harder time with Gligar, but an easier one with Uxie. Unfortunately, it's also Stealth Rock weak and doesn't get the benefits of a free switch-in on T-Wave.

God damn I wish Manectric had Base 110 Speed and not Base 105.
 
Natu has a lot of utilities:

Wish (meh)
Confuse Ray (meh)
Feather Dance
Haze
Roost
Swagger
Tailwind
Thunder Wave
Toxic
Protect
Reflect
u-turn
trick room
Sunny Day
Rain Dance

The first that i notice that can be useful, is obviusly Reflect and u-turn for gain momentum. Also he can be used as a Rain Dance/Sunny day emergency summoner (since he can't run the proper rock for a 8 turns meteo). Trick Roomer is also viable pairing always with u-turn and even tail wind can be a good point for the team. But the fact remain the same, once he do his work, he become very dead weight.
 
Natu can also run Night Shade, for consistent damage against everything that isn't a normal type.

This my typical Natu Set when Sableye was running Rampant around in RU

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Roost
move 2: Night Shade
move 3: Thunder-wave
move 4: Toxic / Confuse Ray
item: Evolite
ability: Magic Bounce
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD or 252 SpD 4 Def

It completely walls particular pokemon, mainly Ferroseed, Gligar, Tangrowth/Tangela (without a super effect attack) I guess it could also head to head against uxie and qwifish as well.

The Set is pretty obvious, I generally run Toxic over confuse ray but parafuse has it's own advantages if you are lucky enough to hax.
 
just getting into this metagame and i'm liking it so far. reminds me of the good ol days in gen 4 UU.

about the qwilfish/uxie/gligar core, a mixed sceptile running leaf storm / hp ice / earthquake / filler would put a lot of pressure on this core with its tremendous speed and decent power. the filler move could be any number of coverage moves, include rock slide for switchins like moltres, accelgor and the like, or possibly focus blast for munchlax. leaf blade is also possible to give sceptile a physical STAB to try and attempt a sweep after denting stuff with leaf storm. entei makes a great partner as he is effectively walled by all of the mons in that core and helps clear the way for sceptile to wreak havoc by taking out stuff like tangrowth and amoonguss.
 
Gotta love Durant and its amazing Attack with Hustle. I have no idea how many Hone Claws sweeps I've pulled off so far, but that number isn't small. Pity Durant can't get around Steelix or Aggron.
 

Oglemi

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^That's when you use Dugtrio or Wynaut lol

But no seriously I still love Durant even though that people are now prepared for it unlike during the first few weeks of RU.

Also, where did Munchlax go? Has anybody found a use for him now that Venomoth, Yanmega, Alakazam and SmashPass are out of the tier? He's still good to at least put a stop to a Shell Smash sweep from Omastar or Gorebyss and a nice wall to Porygon-Z. Thoughts?
 
^ It's called Magneton :P trap those steels and eliminate them. Give Magneton Magnet rise because you out speed them and they can't hit you back with Earthquake.

edit: Ah ninja'd by Oglemi :S :P
 
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