np: SS UU Stage 5: Change is Gonna Come (Diggersby & Venusaur BANNED)

June’s tier shifts are pretty insane so far, even discounting the Pokemon returning from the DLC.
It’s honestly going to be pretty hard to imagine how the Metagame will play out now.

:Tyranitar: :Skarmory: :Aegislash: :Kyurem: :Blissey:
These are probably the most insane additions to SWSH UU.
Tyranitar, if remained unbanned, will be spear heading sand teams (not like there was any competition anyways for sand setters). Tyranitar could be threatening as a stand alone Pokemon as well, even without Pursuit or supporting Pokemon, as it has fantastic stats and a great offensive typing.

Corvilight-I mean Skarmory definitely appreciates not being in a tier with Corviknight. At least now, Skarmory can be put to good use. It still has some of Corviknight’s great attributes while offering other things to set it apart like Spikes/Stealth Rock, Whirlwind, and Toxic, and having a powerful Body Press will make Skarmory a good Defogger as it can threaten the likes of Tyranitar with Body Press.

Aegislash fell from grace didn’t it?
I expect it to become UUBL for eternity with Staraptor.
But assuming it gets to stay, Aegislash will likely become the most prominent Pokemon in the tier.
It has an amazing typing both offensive and defensively, and its sets make it difficult to switch in your initial check.

Kyurem I’m also expecting 100% to be UUBL, but if it doesn’t, then the same story as Aegislash, just harder to revenge kill thanks to its speed and access to Dragon Dance, better bulk when attacking, and a worse defensive typing for a better offensive typing.

Blissey is pretty familiar to UU, but the stage here is vastly different, but regardless it will be amazing and won’t be too long before Blissey establishes itself in UU as the Go-To Special Wall. And the term Skarmbliss may return for UU as well.

:Scizor:
Also another important drop being Scizor.
Last Gen, Scizor was amazing in UU, and here it will be the same story. It can fulfill many roles. It does have Aegislash and Skarmory as thorns in Scizor’s back, but it will still be great.


:Terrakion:
Ok, this guy is also insane and I’m too lazy to change the above point.
It’s typing is great, it’s offensive power is great, and its speed is great too, and has Stealth Rock and Sword Dance to boot. Will be expecting this thing to become UUBL as well.

:Gengar:
So this kitty was unbanned and dropped to UU. Fitting for a Ghost, it will be pretty scary, but still manageable. As long as Blissey doesn’t use Shadow Ball for sets, Gengar’s Nasty Plot will be causing trouble for teams.

:Stoutland:
Remember how I said Tyranitar will spearhead sand teams? Well Stoutland is looking to be the Sand Rush user of choice now (also not like there is competition).
Sharing Shiftry’s speed, it can outspeed almost everything in the entire Meta. Even with it being PU (also likely caused by Excadrill being so dominant and how the tier shift worked), it will be a force to be reckoned with in UU.
 
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Fusion Flare

Formerly Datsplashtho
June’s tier shifts are pretty insane so far, even discounting the Pokemon returning from the DLC.
It’s honestly going to be pretty hard to imagine how the Metagame will play out now.

:Tyranitar: :Skarmory: :Aegislash: :Kyurem: :Blissey:
These are probably the most insane additions to SWSH UU.
Tyranitar, if remained unbanned, will be spear heading sand teams (not like there was any competition anyways for sand setters). Tyranitar could be threatening as a stand alone Pokemon as well, even without Pursuit or supporting Pokemon, as it has fantastic stats and a great offensive typing.

Corvilight-I mean Skarmory definitely appreciates not being in a tier with Corviknight. At least now, Skarmory can be put to good use. It still has some of Corviknight’s great attributes while offering other things to set it apart like Spikes/Stealth Rock, Whirlwind, and Toxic, and having a powerful Body Press will make Skarmory a good Defogger as it can threaten the likes of Tyranitar with Body Press.

Aegislash fell from grace didn’t it?
I expect it to become UUBL for eternity with Staraptor.
But assuming it gets to stay, Aegislash will likely become the most prominent Pokemon in the tier.
It has an amazing typing both offensive and defensively, and its sets make it difficult to switch in your initial check.

Kyurem I’m also expecting 100% to be UUBL, but if it doesn’t, then the same story as Aegislash, just harder to revenge kill thanks to its speed and access to Dragon Dance, better bulk when attacking, and a worse defensive typing for a better offensive typing.

Blissey is pretty familiar to UU, but the stage here is vastly different, but regardless it will be amazing and won’t be too long before Blissey establishes itself in UU as the Go-To Special Wall. And the term Skarmbliss may return for UU as well.

:Scizor:
Also another important drop being Scizor.
Last Gen, Scizor was amazing in UU, and here it will be the same story. It can fulfill many roles. It does have Aegislash and Skarmory as thorns in Scizor’s back, but it will still be great.

:Terrakion:
Ok, this guy is also insane and I’m too lazy to change the above point.
It’s typing is great, it’s offensive power is great, and its speed is great too, and has Stealth Rock and Sword Dance to boot. Will be expecting this thing to become UUBL as well.

:Gengar:
So this kitty was unbanned and dropped to UU. Fitting for a Ghost, it will be pretty scary, but still manageable. As long as Blissey doesn’t use Shadow Ball for sets, Gengar’s Nasty Plot will be causing trouble for teams.

:Stoutland:
Remember how I said Tyranitar will spearhead sand teams? Well Stoutland is looking to be the Sand Rush user of choice now (also not like there is competition).
Sharing Shiftry’s speed, it can outspeed almost everything in the entire Meta. Even with it being PU (also likely caused by Excadrill being so dominant and how the tier shift worked), it will be a force to be reckoned with in UU.
Sorry pal, Scizor just barely made it into OU.
 

Ausma

pick a sack.
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:ss/aegislash::ss/kyurem::ss/terrakion:

>all dropped, despite being huge, arguably banworthy threats in the earlier phases of OU

What fresh hell is this

Anyway, memes aside, holy shit this development is huge. I know we were expecting quite a few mons to shake up the tier, but new toy syndrome has really knocked these guys sideways in a way I wasn't at all expecting, and honestly, I have no doubts these Pokemon are going to be overwhelming to the tier in some manner.


Hey, remember when Doublade used to be one of the best Pokemon in the tier, and still is a pretty solid pick anyway? Well, let's just give it more set versatility, more of an immediate offensive presence, and the ability to absolutely spearhead offense. Even with Incineroar being one of the best Pokemon in the tier, It has beyond an offensive presence and even with Incineroar as a great check, will still wear Incineroar down incredibly well. Though, it's because of that that I don't necessarily think it alone is problematic, but rather the set versatility that made it so good in OU to begin with. I am for sure in the quickban boat here.

Edit: SubToxic alone is fucking absurd. Rid of this demon


Remember those quirky roomtours Lily ran where we found out Lycanroc-Dusk is actually incredibly good? Yeah, let's just bring its better version into the tier, which has better bulk, and STAB Close Combat. With the coveted Cobalion/Keldeo speed tier, one Swords Dance will spell the end of any team that doesn't have speed control. Easy UUBL, imo, that will force way too much prep.

Edit: After playing with it some, it's not as bad I was expecting, honestly. With Skarmory and Palossand in the tier, Terrakion has a really hard time finding good set-up opportunities. I could see it maybe sticking around, but I'm not 100% yet.


Specs Freeze Dry says hello to the tier's bulky Waters, and it deletes everything else besides Blissey. Blissey is for sure gonna hold this thing back, as well as its now good (but not great) speed tier. But if these are the only answers, then what will that mean for Kyurem? I guess only time will tell. I don't like the idea of Specs Freeze Dry, Ice Beam, Earth Power, and Draco Meteor anyway, though.

--

:ss/obstagoon::ss/gengar::ss/crawdaunt:

We also got some unbans too, of which I'm very interested in! Gengar, Obstagoon, and Crawdaunt were all pretty big in the tier when they were banned, so let's talk about them!


With Cobalion, Incineroar, and Terrakion in the tier, I think Obstagoon has much more of a shot being balanced, and might even ease the load of being a top Dark-type in the tier on Incineroar, too. The biggest reason I find it better, though, is its ass defensive type, and its now not-great speed tier. Its speed tier is still fantastic, but it's a lot easier to get past it now with the speed tiers getting relatively higher with the inclusion of Home and IoA Pokemon to the tiers, and the defensive level upping an ante.


Despite how the tier has grown much fatter, Gengar still kind of strikes me the wrong way. Especially now that we got some really great walls like Slowking and Palossand which are Ghost-weak, on top of its great speed tier, and access to Nasty Plot, I really don't know how to feel about its inclusion in the tier. Blissey and Incineroar on paper check it, but Gengar has +2 LO Focus Blast (if the former gets worn down). This is another Kyurem case where I can hypothetically see it working, but I can very easily see it going awry.


This thing, contrarily, is a hard yikes. Keldeo is the only actually relatively safe check, and now that we have Hatterene to spearhead Trick Room, I can see this thing easily being an overwhelming force with +2. Aqua Jet gives it the ability to forego its speed, but... at the same time, its speed does kind of suck, and this main form of priority is pretty able to be switched into with the many Grasses, Waters, and several immunities in the tier, which is its main Achilles heel. I'm leaning toward keeping this thing gone, but I could see it working too, possibly..?

--

And now, some of the fresher additions that spark my eye (that I haven't talked about before)

:ss/grimmsnarl::ss/hatterene::ss/blissey::ss/palossand::ss/slowking:



In OU, I always felt as if Grimmsnarl was the better Screen setter between it and Ninetales-Alola. I know that's a really hot take, but having Prankster to guarantee at least one screen, yielding a solid Dark/Fairy typing, Taunt, Spirit Break, and a Prankster immunity really gave it an edge. If this thing stays in the tier, it will absolutely spearhead Screens Offense, which has already proven as somewhat problematic with just Espeon and Xatu leading the fray. I feel this thing has grounds toward being banned in a similar vein to Ninetales-Alola for its great synergy with breakers and just for how good and consistent it is as a Screens setter.



Hatterene is weird. I actually think it'll be a pretty welcome addition to the tier as a preventive factor toward hazard stacking, but more importantly, making Trick Room more viable in the tier. While the playstyle has always been kind of fringe, Hatterene is a great setter and abuser without question. Offensively, it faces competition from Gardevoir due to its greater Speed, but overall I feel Hatterene has a very good niche over it.



Blissey: hmm today i will make special breakers not broken.

Memes aside, Blissey is a giant, giant addition to the tier, and honestly might be the saving grace against Kyurem and Gengar. While I don't think centralization of Blissey will necessarily spell their keepsake, even without them in the tier this thing is a top Special wall that can Teleport now. Yeesh. Definitely isn't broken, and honestly is a pretty welcome addition that eases a lot of pressure on Incineroar as a general Ghost answer (that isn't named Golurk).



Le savior of the tier has arrived. Ground/Ghost has always been a pretty amazing typing in the tier, but just hasn't been on good mons. Palossand, though, is a great mon with longevity, rocks, and access to Scorching Sands as a STAB option. This thing will be incredible, especially with Terrakion around.



Beta Slowbro is kinda sick, imo, against the Fighting onslaught. Regenerator + Teleport is an ungodly combo, and Slowking has more SpDef than the Bro, which is hugely relevant given we have things like Keldeo and Noivern running amok. It still is smashed by things like Roserade and Heliolisk, but it's a very welcome addition to the tier that will be an incredible pivot.

--

I'll probably give some more thoughts later, but due to the huge, huge number of drops we got, these are just my first impressions. We got a metric fuckton of changes that are for sure changing how UU plays easily for the rest of this generation, so I'm curious to see what developments arise! I'll keep you guys posted on my own observations as we begin to acclimate to the tier.
 
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:Stoutland:
Remember how I said Tyranitar will spearhead sand teams? Well Stoutland is looking to be the Sand Rush user of choice now (also not like there is competition).
Sharing Shiftry’s speed, it can outspeed almost everything in the entire Meta. Even with it being PU (also likely caused by Excadrill being so dominant and how the tier shift worked), it will be a force to be reckoned with in UU.
Lycanroc-Day has sand rush, doesn't it? It's both faster and stronger, with SD, a better STAB, and access to priority (although it is significantly frailer). I don't really see much reason to use Stoutland over it.
 
Spr_5b_474.png
One mon that is interesting that I do not see anyone talking about is porygon Z. Its Tri-Attack is stupid powerful and has a 20% chance to Para/Burn/Freeze the opponent. Its only counters are Copperjah and T-tar atm and even then it does not want to get statused by one of its attacks. Then combined with its base 95 speed, it has potential to be really good. Just for some calcs, here they are.

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 127-150 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- 93% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 172 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 283-334 (65.2 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 176-208 (52 - 61.5%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And all these are timid calcs. I think it could compete with toxtricity as the best special wallbreaker in the tier and it has much better speed than tox as well. Plus,it does not get walled by Pallosand like Tox does.

Edit: Also HyperBeam can be used as a last ditch effort to blow something back as well. It also has trick and cripple its counters as well.
 
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Lycanroc-Day has sand rush, doesn't it? It's both faster and stronger, with SD, a better STAB, and access to priority (although it is significantly frailer). I don't really see much reason to use Stoutland over it.
Movepool, bulk, and neutral STAB against Ground and Fighting. Also Lycanroc’s Atk is like 5 Bases ahead too, and after Sand Rush, you only outspeed Scarf Timid Noivern (which is tied with Jolly Stoutland too), +1 Timid Ribombee, and Scarf Jolly Barraskewda with Adamant and only +2 Cobalion with Jolly (compared to Jolly Stoutland at least).
Pretty much everything you outspeed with Lycanroc is a bad match up besides Ribombee.

Stoutland is also a better Choice Band user, thanks to Facade, its bulk, and neutral attacking types. It’s much harder to stop when you can tank most priority and can switch-in more often.
 
So I already went in far too much depth for this in the usage-based tier thread so I'm just gonna link it for ease. Literally finished writing it and got a message from a buddy saying like everything I wrote about had already been done.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usage-based-tier-update-for-july-2020.3666712/post-8524075

In this post I advocate strongly for unbanning all UUBL Pokemon and asking people to be careful about quickly issuing out new bans. I feel like my time was kind of wasted since realizing the UU Council voted, but I'm not completely satisfied in partial bans. And since I'm not fully satisfied, I spent a lot of time on this, and there's remain a few snippets of my post that are still relevant, I may as well whore it out for likes here and give my 2c :blobpex: .

As I was looking at it more and more, I realized that Gen 8 UU is suddenly starting to look a lot like Gen5 OU. Just to name a few, here are some of the Pokemon the two tiers have in common:
Blissey :Blissey:
Celebi :Celebi:
Conkeldurr :Conkeldurr:
Cloyster :cloyster:
Espeon :espeon:
Forretress :forretress:
Gastrodon :Gastrodon:
Jirachi :jirachi:
Ninetales :ninetales:
Keldeo :keldeo:
Lucario :lucario:
Pelipper :pelipper:
Reuniclus :reuniclus:
Rotom-Wash :rotom-wash:
Starmie :starmie:
Tentacruel :tentacruel:
Terrakion :terrakion:.

Add in the UUBL Pokemon and we have even more gen5 OUs joining the fray and the tier begins to look even more similar.
Gyarados :gyarados:
Mamoswine :mamoswine:
Venusaur :venusaur:
Weavile :weavile:
Kyurem :kyurem: (then-BL)

I still advocate that all UUBL be unbanned, even if it seems obvious to everyone and their mother that they'll be too powerful.

Put it another way, what's the absolute worst that can happen if we quickban everything? We end up with a large UUBL tier with insufficient justifications for every ban. We cannot say for sure whether Weavile and Tyranitar were together enough to prevent Aegislash from running the format. Furthermore, in this worst-case scenario, the process of mass unbanning would likely never happen. No single Pokemon would ever get unbanned because it on its own would be too strong, yet it would languish in a UUBL Limbo of three to five would-be counters. By playing it conservatively and doling out bans, we never know if the metagame could have been healthy.

What's the absolute worst that can happen if we unban our UUBLs? The metagame sucks for a bit and we end up rebanning them all again, plus some troublesome drops too for good measure. This takes time and adds a number of lengthy suspect voting procedures, disrupting tournaments. However, even if this happens, this is not a waste of time. In this scenario, where everything that dropped gets banned and UU ends up looking the same as it did in June, we come out with the knowledge and justification for our bans. We are able to expressly articulate what was so broken about each Pokemon and why they were hostile to a metagame.
Justification for the validity of unbans in the Smogon landscape

Unbans are an important part of the tiering process too, yet either because of the way Smogon tiering works or the nature of ban-susceptible mons themselves it seems we hardly ever see them. Indeed, most attention on platforms like /r/stunfisk, Smogon Forums, and even prolific Youtubers like aim and blunder tends to be drawn towards pro-ban suspect tests. On /r/Stunfisk for example, 9 of the 25 top posts of the last month are ban or tiering related. Unbans are seen by the comminity as large as rare, and by proxy, less valid.

I would wager that people tend to hold a bias towards banning. After all, a Pokemon wouldn't get a suspect proposed if it wasn't guilty of being overpowered, right? We see this in the real world too-- many people fail to understand that just because someone is arrested does not intrinsically mean they are guilty. Unbans are valid and necessary. Just because they don't get the attention that bans do does not mean we should not utilize them as tools in creating balanced tiers.

I do not believe there is room for a halfway implementation of my proposals. Both parts need to be present in order for our metagames to be healthy and justified. Banning a mon like Aegislash without unbanning the UUBLs isn't good enough, as this is banning without full information. You never tried Aegi vs Weavile, which for all we know might have been the tipping point between a ban and a no ban.

And perhaps the most important thing; we're gonna have to do this all again.
Oh, and regardless of if you agree with me or not, we'll have these exact same discussions 1 month after the release of the Crown Tundra. Why not establish precedent here and get it right the first time?
 

Moutemoute

It's not haxx if it comes from Jirachi
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Aight so heres a team I quickly made which works pretty nicely, feel free to use it to ladder a bit. The aim is pretty obvious : 2 Teleport fat Pokemon to handle most threats and Choice Band Terrakion to abuse of it alongside Toxic Spikes. SubToxic Aegislash is there to stall out even more while Skarmory brings some nice Stealth Rock support + Whirlwind. Not a perfect team for sure, but a usable one.

By the way I'd like to give my first thoughts on a Pokemon which is insanely nasty and obnoxious in my Pokemon and that Pokemon is obviously Aegislash. I firmly believe this Pokemon is the most threatening and dumb thing we get so far. This Pokemon is almost impossible to deal with since it can run almost any set it wants : Choice Band, Choice Specs, Mixed Life Orb, Swords Dance, SubToxic, King Shield +3 attacks. In my opinion, SubToxic Aegislash is just disgutsing since it can handle a lot of Pokemon while being able to pressure to a extreme extent and chip really hard thanks to Toxic + Substitute + King Shield. I mean there is almost nothing which can OHKO on the special side this Pokemon, even a Shadow Ball from Specs Gengar will not OHKO it under its shield form. I don't see this Pokemon staying in UU and I trully hope that the other council members will look at it with an extreme caution.

That's all I have to say for now. There is a plenty of others drops which seem kinda busted or nasty but for now I didn't try them enough to make a good post about them. The metagame is new so it's kinda hard to say which Pokemon are going to be good but not busted or unhealthy for the tier. As a council member, I'll try my best to give to the community my most sincere thoughts on the current trends as soon as possible.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One for All
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Movepool, bulk, and neutral STAB against Ground and Fighting. Also Lycanroc’s Atk is like 5 Bases ahead too, and after Sand Rush, you only outspeed Scarf Timid Noivern (which is tied with Jolly Stoutland too), +1 Timid Ribombee, and Scarf Jolly Barraskewda with Adamant and only +2 Cobalion with Jolly (compared to Jolly Stoutland at least).
Pretty much everything you outspeed with Lycanroc is a bad match up besides Ribombee.

Stoutland is also a better Choice Band user, thanks to Facade, its bulk, and neutral attacking types. It’s much harder to stop when you can tank most priority and can switch-in more often.
Both of them suck. Losing reliable STAB is pretty huge for Stoutland, and the amount of counter measures in offensive AND defensive checks to this just screams mediocre. Facade being it's only STAB means you need CB do have any chance at breaking teams with a shred of bulk, and it it can't afford to lock into moves because its too prediction reliant. Lock into Facade? It's free real estate for every Ghost type in the meta, not to mention a free kill for Terrakion. Lock into Crunch, replace Ghost with Dark and it's the same situation. Lock into Superpower and Mons like Noivern eat that up for breakfast. And no matter what you lock into Conk is always in the back prepping his fists. Sand Rush sets are just straight up bad, similar to Tox in OU, too many viable switchins into its Attacks that punish you way too severely. Sure Scrappy solves spot of issues, but at that point why are you pairing it with TTar again?
 
Hey there, I would like to talk about a Pokemon that I see to be underrated despite its usage in the final month before the drops and that I see its potential as an anti-meta threat.

This Pokemon is one of the few NFEs on UU, and it is obviously Scyther

Scyther got some very serious buffs this generation, most notably Dual Wingbeat, which is a slightly less acurate but recoil-free Brave Bird in its hands... or scythes, and the other are the Boots, which allow it to use U-Turn safely for the first ever time in its existens. I actually had seen some arguments about Eviolite, but the 1.5x in Defense and Sp. Defense are pointless when you are crippled without team support and have a weak defensive typing. So yes, Boots are mandatory.

But this is not the topic I am talking here.

Scyther was excellent in both NU and RU this gen and even got a B rank and placed #15 in UU pre-crazy drops, all thankst to the buffs. And now with the new drops, you are going to ask: how will Scyther fair against them. Will it fail? Will it succeed in such a lethal environment before the quickbans happen? Will it lose usage but be underrated?

I believe the 3rd in general.

Now I will show how does it fare against the new drops and the unbans.

First of all, against Aeigslash, it packs the dreaded Knock Off (ironically a move that when used against Scyther it cripples it). In Shield Form it does this: 252 Atk Scyther Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 140-166 (53.6 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Def investment: 252 Atk Scyther Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Aegislash-Shield: 118-140 (36.4 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And at +2: +2 252 Atk Scyther Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Aegislash-Shield: 236-278 (72.8 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Pretty good calcs against a Pokemon that is supposed to wall it. I would also use U-Turn against it to avoid unneccesary chip and a potential KO from a Shadow Sneak.

Blissey is an easier target due to its weak Defense and passivity. So it is pretty much setup fodder for Scyther.

+2 252 Atk Technician Scyther Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 632-746 (88.5 - 104.4%) -- approx. 18.8% chance to OHKO

This means with Rocks up, it KOs it for sure after a Swords Dance.

Conkeldurr also struggles against it obviously because of its low speed and typing, so I will not add calculations. And with Conkeldurr being very scary, Scyther can claim that it can properly handle it thanks to its awesome STAB and a 4x resistance to Fighting. Don't switch it directly, as Knock Off is potentially the end for our mantis friend.

Crawdaunt is yet another slow threat that it cannot switch in at all. Watch out for Aqua Jet, but it must also watch out for a STAB U-Turn.

Well, with Gengar there is trouble due to 130 Speed being miles better than 105 and Scyther's inability to hold a Scarf without being crippled by Rocks. But Gengar luckily cannot switch in directly. Still, Gengar is a strong offensive check to it due to its power and speed.

Haterrene is easily 2HKOed without a setup and guaranteed after one, so no real chance of switching in properly and attempt a Trick Room. Same with Grimmsnarl, as it is also 2HKOed by an unboosted Scyther and OHKOed by a boosted one with Dual Wingbeat.

Before I move on, I am very impressed by Technician-boosted STAB Dual Wingbeat.

Okay, so next is Jirachi, another feared but underrated threat. Scarf sets of Jirachi are extremely annoying for obvious and evil reasons, but luckily Scyther can catch it on the switch with Knock Off.

252 Atk Scyther Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 190-224 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Scyther Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 376-444 (110.2 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Obstagoon is also one scary threat, so avoid switching at it. But Obstagoon has a mediocre base 95 speed, so Scyther outspeeds it and threatens it with its STAB U-Turn, so Obstagoon is not an easy check, especially with the fact it has no priority moves.

Ok, about Terrakion, switching to it is out of the equation, but neither it.

252 Atk Technician Scyther Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 192-228 (59.4 - 70.5%) -- approx. 2HKO

And finally, it has U-Turn as always to avoid being in trouble with Tyranitar.

252 Atk Scyther U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Remember, always use U-Turn on Pokemon it cannot handle consistently, especially things like Gigalith or Talonflame.

So yes, I figured out that Scyther has definately some potential as an anti-meta threat. Still, Pokemon like Noivern and Gengar will be the bane of its existense, and the only ones since it is free from Rocks, but with it being far more flexible thanks to Boots and U-Turn being spammable as always, it has potential to be a decent threat in UU. Not a meta-defining or A-Rank material but still a decent B-Ranker to watch out for.
 
I have been using CB Scyther in UU, but I stopped because I had the feeling that it was a gimmick, since many threats were scaring it, like Noivern, Keldeo, Cobalion, Mantine, Escavalier, Specs Celebi and Necrozma. None of them can switch in into a dual wingbeat, but they are scary as hell when they come free in a double switch or in a lead, because they can all kill scyther in one or two hits (or cripple it with a burn/knock off)

Not to mention counters like Galarian Weezing and the rock types like Rhyperior and Gigalith

Now, with Lycanroc, Crawdaunt, GalarBro and Aegislash (all of them with strong stab priorities), I don't see Scyther shining
 
Ah my Boi Skarmory, i follow you into any tier.

Well, my first impression of this new UU despite never playing it before in this generation:

Not as bad as told in this thread. I am only surprised by how insanely good Band Ttar is compared to OU: One right prediction and a lot of mons get destroyed heck even some Skarmory which try to speedcreep + no lefties get 2HKO by Tyranitar. I think personally I am going to experiment more with it.

Also Aegislash in UU is crazy aswell - it not being OU is surprising
 
Gods, when a list of UU drops starts with Aegislash, you know something is horribly wrong, and I say this as someone who expected UU to--as always--get screwed over by drops this month, just not this screwed over. All I can do is look at that list and have the CvS2 announcer come to mind: "Now that's what I'd like to call big damage!"

The only silver lining here is that neither Scizor nor Togekiss dropped (yet) like a bunch of people were expecting, and that looking over things at a glance, the only super obvious bans to me are Aegislash (how did this drop?), Conk (please leave), probably Kyurem (now that it has Freeze-Dry and apparently Dragon Dance too), maybe Mimikyu (even with the nerf to Disguise), probably Scolipede (not like Speed Boost got worse), and maybe Terrakion (though at least Pallossand dropped alongside it). I would like to add Jirachi to this list, but that's more me being hopeful about it getting banned than it likely being banworthy given how obnoxious being flinched to death by Iron Head is. I'm also doubtless missing something like, say, Hatterene or one of the recently "unbanned" mons still being broken in addition to the possibility of my assessments just being wrong.

(Aegislash seriously needs to leave though at the very least. No way that thing is fair here, especially now that it has Close Combat for some reason.)

Regardless, it says a lot that Tyranitar fell to UU and might actually be fine due to how much losing Pursuit affected it and not being able to spam (STAB) Knock Off like a bunch of other mons. How the mighty have fallen.


I have been using CB Scyther in UU, but I stopped because I had the feeling that it was a gimmick, since many threats were scaring it, like Noivern, Keldeo, Cobalion, Mantine, Escavalier, Specs Celebi and Necrozma. None of them can switch in into a dual wingbeat, but they are scary as hell when they come free in a double switch or in a lead, because they can all kill scyther in one or two hits (or cripple it with a burn/knock off)
Scyther might still be fine despite all of the chaos and seeming brokenness given how hard it hits and its Speed tier. Using Choice Band on a mon that takes 50% from Stealth Rock seems like it was more likely the problem you were encountering--Heavy-Duty Boots or bust.
 
Ok, after playing some games on ladder and battles on UU Room I wanna give some fresh tought about what has been the most controversial drops

Aegislash
:ss/aegislash:


Aegislah is by far in my opinion the most unhealthy addition from this month drops, it has 4 viable sets, Choice Band, Choice Specs, Mixed Attacker and the most annoying one Sub Toxic, but what makes Aegislash different from othe ghost types in the tier that can also do the same? Well Aegislash has a good defensive typing in Ghost and Steel, also Stance Change allows you to change your stats depending on the situation, Chandelure also has a good Toxic + Tect set, why Aegislash is different? Well, Aegislash doenst have to run Heavy Duty Boots because is not weak to rocks and inmune to T-Spikes, so it allows it to run leftovers and substitute, also Substitute + King Shield makes easier to stall Dark types that are supposed to check it like Incineroar and Obstagoon. Okey Sub Toxic is annoying, but what about Specs and Banded, this sets are kind more easier to play arround, however Aegislash has good coverage to hit Dark Types checks on Close Combat, and typing that allows to dont be touched by Blissey, also if you are expecting a Specs variant and send your special wall you could get destroyed by a Choice Band one etc. Compared to Doublade, Aegislash is waaaay more versatile and less predictable on the Team preview, so I find this guy too much for the meta and should be considered for a bann.

Kyurem
:ss/kyurem:

Kyurem in not a new face in the history of UU, however is not the same kyurem from the last generation, it got new tools that makes it moreversatile and difficult to check, last generation Kyurem was easily walled by bulky waters, but new Freeze Dry make them dont be a check anymore, also has Earth Power to deal with Steel Types and a powerful Draco Meteor Stab, also good bulk and offensive stats and a decent speed tier of 95. Ok special Kyurem is difficult to switch, but we have Blissey and Umbreon, dont they check it? They do, however Kyurem also has a good physical variant on Dragon Dance + Icicle Spear or classic Sub Roost to beat those checks. I explored good checks to Kyurem in general, and Bronzong is probably the unique mon capable to switch in any variant, ofc you have to run Iron Head/Heavy Slam, Tyranitar and Gigalith are decent checks but not that consistent, Sylveon can come some few times but Choice Specs Ice Beam hits pretty hard, so, I would also consider this guy for a bann

Terrakion
:ss/terrakion:

Like Kyurem, Terrakion is not a new face on the UU history, even if it didnt get any boost on this generation, on actual UU doesnt have the same defensive counterplay that had on the last generation, examples of this are Hippowdown and Slowbro, also last generation Terrakion's speed tier was good but not as good as actually, last gen we had mons that naturally outspeeded and KO or threated to KO Terrkion like Latias, M-Manectric and M-Aerodactyl, however this generation Terrakion has a really good speed tier, tied with Cobalion and Keldeo, and outspeeded by Noivern, Starmie and Gengar (Noivern is not able to rk Terrakion if it has Sand setters as teammates like Ttar and Gigalith), Sword Dance with LO and CB are the best sets, both dont having a real counterplay, Palosand and Runerigus are probably the most safe switchs for the Ghost/Ground typing. Like Kyurem and Aegislash, I would consider a bann for this guy

Conkeldurr
:ss/conkeldurr:

Im not very familiarized with ORAS UU Metagame, but I understand that Conk was the most broken mon on the tier, this gen comes back to UU after a long time being in OU. I like to compare Conkeldurr with Machamp, as they do exactly the same, but Conkeldurr has tools that make it better than Machamp, better bulk, more attack and a better priority move on Mach Punch, with Aegislash, this was the most spammed mon that i have seen today, and like Machamp, it doenst really have a defensive switch more like Neutralazing Gas G-Weezing, but is slow, weak to chip damage and not that difficult to rk. I find this guy a really cool adittion to the tier and not unhealthy and Im pretty sure it will make a good role on the meta.

Tyranitar
:ss/tyranitar:

Ok guys, lets be objective, Tyranitas has been by far one of the best mons since it was released on Second Generation, but that doesn´t mean that in actual UU is gonna be absolutly broken, and I can say without doubts, that Tyranitar is far away to be considered broken, is not even that good, we have 13 viable Fighting types on the tier, and 4 of them are pretty common and capable to checks Tyranitar without problems, this ones are :cobalion: , :keldeo: , :conkeldurr: and :pangoro: . Also Ttar as a Rock type is completely outclassed by :rhyperior: and :gigalith:, something that Tyranitar could make better than this 2 is handle Boomburst from Toxtricity better, Gigalith can check Gardevoir and Sylveon, something that Ttar cant do, bulky waters can completely own Tyranitar without risking anything, specially Gastrodon, TTar also is very weak to chip damage, and cant even win a 1v1 against skarmory even if it runs fire coverage, Skarmory can easily 2HKO and naturally outspeed Ttar with Body Press, as a Dark type, Incineroar is better, being able to punish any switch in with Knock Off and pivot with Patring Shot/U-Turn. Dragon Dance variants are okey, but that low speed makes it not that difficult to rk, Scarf Krookodile and Flygon can come to rk, or priority from Mach Punch Conkeldurr. Even with all those drowbacks, Ttar can still being a good pick, specially as a support with Rocks or T-Wave.


This are some fresh toughts on the new drops, hope to see the meta have a good evolve during this month, happy laddering :]​
 
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Twilight

is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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Just some general thoughts on some nice additions and some of the questionable Pokemon in the tier. I've seen a lot of people saying UU is unplayable with all these crazy drops but that really isn't the case imo. Teambuilding has felt a lot more refreshing especially with us having so many more viable Choice Scarfers, Stealth Rock users, and hazard removal options.

Some Pokemon that benefit or got hurt by shifts

I think Weezing-G is probably one of the best Pokemon right now especially when we got dumped with so many Fighting-types in Conkeldurr, Mienshao, Heracross, and it also checks the unbanned Obstagoon (Assuming Neutralizing Gas). It is also one of the only Pokemon that reliably pivots into CB or LO Krookodile. It is hurt by Gengar being freed again so I have gone back to using Shadow Ball again on some teams, still hits Aegi. Keldeo is definitely worse now that we have Slowking, Starmie, etc. but it is still a strong wallbreaker. Toxic is definitely going to be valued a lot more now that we got King but I have also been using SleepTalk sets which can be difficult for bulkier teams to take down + it helps with Choice Band Tyranitar.

Noivern is so much worse after these shifts with better checks in Jirachi, TTar, Blissey, and better Speed control that can beat it, it probably still has viability but I find few reasons to opt for it over other choices at hand. Indeedee hates that TTar is here and doesn't appreciate another Steel/Psychic-type in Jirachi dropping down too. Psychic Terrain + Expanding Force is still big for it but far less threatening. We have so few Electric-types and Pokemon that Levitate so Washtom is a lot more valuable imo. We did get Seismitoad which hurts it a little but it still punishes it with Toxic/Wisp. Tsareena feels a little rough to use especially when you are a hazard remover that can't beat Skarmory.

Noticeable Pokemon and Sets I have been using

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator / Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat / High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Stone Edge / Poison Jab

Mienshao @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 100 HP / 16 Atk / 176 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Fake Out

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Poison Jab

Mienshao @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab / Stone Edge

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab

Mienshao is great with how versatile it can be. I've primarily been using Choice Scarf, Life Orb, and Assault Vest but it also has the potential to run Choice Band too. Mienshao is an offensive glue mon thanks to Regenerator allowing you to play a bit more aggressively with it compared to the rest of the tiers Fighting-types. I personally am not a fan of running High Jump Kick with Reckless right now especially with there being so much Aegislash on the ladder, feels very punishing. Close Combat is a great buff for it for this reason. I also think SD sets have potential but that set is just speculation for the time being. Unfortunately, it can't dent Galarian Weezing but having Knock Off to punish it is nice. The EV spread on the Assault Vest Mienshao lets you take a Specs Draco Meteor from Kyurem at full, you also take a +2 Sludge Wave from Gengar.


Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 128 HP / 176 Atk / 20 Def / 104 SpD / 80 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Stealth Rock / Fire Blast

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Heavy Slam

Tyranitar @ Chople Berry / Lum Berry / Shuca Berry / Passho Berry / Whatever you want
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Dragon Dance

Tyranitar has been pretty fun to use and I think it is a positive addition to the tier. Personally, I think Stealth Rock sets are the best on it but I found Max SpD sets to be rather situational so I made the following spread which hits several benchmarks while maintaining some offensive presence. I'll have the explanation shown in the hide tag below. I think Chople Berry is the best item by far on this Tyranitar as it lets you deal with Psychic-types like Reuniclus better and lets you check Gengar reliably which would otherwise blow you back with Focus Blast. You can also trade with offensive Incineroar easier assuming it is unboosted. While Chople helps with all these things it will still get blown back by Choice Band Aegislash, the strong Fighting-types, Lycanroc-Dusk. Fire Blast is an option if you have space to give up rocks because it means you can 2HKO Skarmory and it 2HKOs Cobalion without dropping your Defense. Passho Berry is an option to take a hit from Starmie easier but you do live a Life Orb Hydro Pump regardless. Shuca Berry can also be considered for stuff like Krookodile but I still think Chople is the better option. If you want this Pokemon to check Specs Kyurem or any of those SpA better you need to run Max SpD as a heads up. I won't say much about CB its a strong breaker and it 2HKOs most Fighting-types with Edge. DD is also viable but it is not that effective of a sweeper imo.
The HP and Defense investment lets you always live Cobalion CC after rocks so you can OHKO it with Superpower once it is at -1 (Granted yes it can Iron Head if it wants to risk it), always live Earthquake from unboosted Krookodile after rocks (You only OHKO it with chip or without being Intimidated), and always take a Close Combat from Jolly Obstagoon after Stealth Rock. You live Adamant Goon CC but it is a roll after rocks.

The SpD helps with checking Focus Blast Reuniclus, it lets you live 2 Overdrives from Modest Specs Toxtricity, lets you take 3 Draco Meteors from Noivern (This Pokemon has fallen off though), lets you take two Hydro Pumps from 48 SpA Washtom (2HKO it back with Edge), live a +2 Focus Blast from Gengar at full assuming no LO.

80 Speed lets you be faster than defensive Incineroar, Mantine, and uninvested Skarmory.

Rest thrown into Attack for damage.


Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Trick / Zen Headbutt / Fire Punch
- Healing Wish

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (SpD works fine here with HW over Fire Punch)
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Fire Punch

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn / Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Protect

Jirachi is a really nice glue mon that can fulfill the role of both an offensive or defensive Steel-type. I think what makes it so nice is that we finally have a Steel-type that works well with Choice Scarf. It has a lot of utility in rocks, trick, wish, HW, etc. I'm sure offensive sets work great too like CM or Ebelt mixed but I haven't gotten around to trying those out yet.

I won't go into anymore but I think Krookodile and Slowking are amazing. Scarf Krook feels like the worse set to opt for but it has its uses. Loving CB and Rocks sets. Slowking pivots into everything and can run Teleport sets, CM/NP, and potentially AV variants. Great addition to the tier.

Bans?

On preview, it is near impossible to tell what set it is running (Assuming it isn't on a select team like Webs HO) out of SubToxic, Choice Band, Swords Dance, Autotomize, Mixed, and this isn't helped when nothing really switches into it except Incineroar, which has to fear Close Combat. This on top of it having the bulk to tank almost any hit in its Shield Form makes this the most likely candidate to go in my eyes.


I don't know, I have mixed thoughts on Conkeldurr. The best pivots into it are Galarian Weezing, Sylveon, and Colbur Berry Slowking. Offensively threatening this thing isn't as problematic as there are enough things that can revenge and take a Mach Punch but its bulk does usually help it tank a good amount. It's also pretty flexible in the sets you can from BU, 4 Attacks Flame Orb, AV. I wouldn't necessarily mind if it stayed for longer.


I personally think Kyurem is more manageable than other people have claimed. This isn't to take away from how strong this Pokemon is but we have a lot more switchins compared to the above two. AV Shao, Blissey, Bronzong, SpD Ttar, 32 SpD Calm Sylv takes from Specs, AV Copper, Jirachi offensive and SpD, AV Conk to list a few. DD sets are cool but that does mean it is checked by some other Steel-types a bit easier. I may be one of the people that would rather keep Kyurem in the tier for a while longer.


I have no real opinion on Terrakion, it does the same shit it did last gen except we have fewer pivots into it. Palossand, Doublade, and Slowking are the main ones. You still have the same stuff that can offensively pressure it and it being vulnerable to pretty much every priority move like Mach from Conk or Jet from Daunt etc. Lack of defensive counterplay with its Speed tier is probably too much in the long run. Lycanroc-Dusk is similar in this regard with how few switchins it realistically has but its bulk is ass. I still find 4 Attack LO sets or SD 3 Attacks have very few switchins with Tough Claws making its coverage so strong. I'm lumping it here with Terrak because it may as well be a faster Terrak trading off bulk.


Defensively this Pokemon's switchins are still more or less nonexistent. Phys Def Whimsicott is the best option defensively because it takes 2 Crabhammers from CB Daunt. Granted this may be a more viable Whimsi set with Krookodile back in the tier and CB sets running around. Keldeo is 2HKO'd but it resists its STABs and given most sets are either choice locked or rely on lefties for recovery they aren't rly reliable pivots. Offensively yeah you can pressure this Pokemon pretty easily but if it ever gets a free switch you probably sack something or hope you predict correctly. Seismitoad has a decent amount of value rn being a rocker and Ground-type that beats Washtom so having a Water Absorb Mon + secondary check might be enough.


I'm skeptical of unbanning this because from practice it still puts in work and dunks on most of this tier. Tyranitar definitely helps deal with it better and Umbreon is still a check but struggles with NP sets. Aside from that using AV Conk and Mienshao are some of the better options I've found. it's vulnerable to priority from Daunt, Aegi, Doub, and Lycanroc and our Speed control is better to revenge kill it. Maybe it can be fine down here not really sure yet.


Just pointing out how this dunks on all of the above Pokemon.

Mini Compendium

Stealth Rock:

Choice Scarf:

Defog/Rapid Spin:

I thought I'd add this just to illustrate how some of these drops makes building a lot easier and diverse.


Lastly, this is one of the teams I have been using on ladder to decent success. Mixed Aegislash lets it break Skarm+Bliss cores pretty easily. Automize can be replaced for Shadow Claw if you want but it seems like the best filler. Chople Krook gives you a one time check to opposing Aegi if you need to switch in thanks to Intimidate. It helps with the Dog too assuming it isn't +2. Washtom is a pivot and gives hazard control. Scarf Shao for Speed control, Brick Break can be replaced for whatever I just got tired of Grimm screens. SpD Sylveon helps with Kyurem and is the check to most of the Fighting-types in the tier alongside Aegi. Roserade helps break opposing Fairies a bit easier, checks Keldeo, and provides Spikes support. Sleep Powder feels rather important otherwise Aegislash is too much of a pain. The team isn't perfect so don't take it as such but it has been fun to use.

I look forward to how the tier is going to progress.
 

vivalospride

your ass is grass and I've got the weed wacker
is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Driver
Moderator
Greetings earthlings, I am writing this post hoping to help at least a few of you hobgoblins get into this new meta in some way shape or form. In this post I will be providing skeletons and drafts of teams put together primarily based on fundamentals and the rough sense of meta knowledge I have for what's currently in the tier, which isn't much. Obviously these teams might and probably do suck but they are more than likely functional to a good extent, don't be surprised if there's some unpolished sets or drafts that might just lose to x threat bc the meta is new and quite stacked. I will also be sharing a few random thoughts about the meta in it's current state.

:incineroar::noivern:

Incin + Noivern has ruled the meta for quite some time now, and especially the latter of the two. Obviously when we get like 30 fuckin new pokemon, many being much stronger in terms of raw stat totals than most of the things the meta has been accustomed to so far throughout the gen, what used to be good will be heavily impacted. I do think both of these mons are still viable, Noivern moreso though. We got a TON of dark types that completely outclass incin offensively in every way and really the only thing incin has over the other dark types is not being completely murdered by CC from aegi, although you need a fair amount of physical bulk to avoid the 2HKO, which I think is probably fine since that's what gives it a niche over something like ttar I think.

Like I said tho, Noivern might not be king anymore but it's definitely still decent glue for all the same reasons it was so good for so long within the tier. Noiv was lucky, we got two floating pokemon in the drops and neither of them really do what Noivern does. The speed tier and dragon typing is really important for it's role, and I definitely still see Noiv BO being a staple within the metagame to some extent, noiv will definitely drop a few ranks tho.

:conkeldurr::aegislash::gengar::tyranitar::jirachi:

We got a ton of mons. I really like the rockers we got in Krookodile, ttar, rak, etc. I think krook specifically is fuckin awesome for those offense leaning builds, I think chople is a p neat item on it. Aegi stands out quite a bit, doub was v strong in the metagame several times throughout the gen and Aegi is doub with 400x the offensive flexability. I haven't explored all the sets quite hard enough to say this thing is broken or anything like that but it is without a doubt strong. Gengar is strong as fuck even tho we got like a bunch of dark types, same reasons as before really. Conk is absolutely ridiculous, Mach Punch is so fuckin good in this tier with the amount of dark types we have now and our list of things that switch into facade is like non existent, one of the things I can comfortably say stands out in my brain as something we need to look at. Jirachi is really cool glue, another viable scarfer, another viable steel, both things we needed desperately. Many other mons to go over but it's 6am and I don't wanna go over the full list, I'm mainly going over stuff I've experienced so far throughout building/playing today.

Aegi's splashability is ridiculous.

DRAFTS/SAMPLES:

Hopefully both new and old users alike can use these to help them get used to the mons in the tier, hoping this can serve as an interim trash samples post.


Wanted to build around cb ttar, wanted a pivot to pair with it. Figured Shao was a neat one for the job, maybe being able to bring it in on stuff like noiv or ghosts whilst serving as speed control in general for the team. I think the toad is prolly gonna be the best rocker choice on most cb ttar teams, jirachi is another neat option but on this I went with the toad as it can help wear down waters with toxic and water absorb which helps ttar. Aegi sounded like the best option for a wincon with waters hopefully being knocked/toxiced/chipped, also ttar + aegi is just heavenly type synergy. Weezing gives a secondary fairy resist and is rlly good vs the influx of fighting types the tier has, works nice with aegi defensively. Noiv is doing noiv things as a fast glue mon to form a pivot core and be an eq immunity.


This team feels pretty sick to look at aesthetically imo, reminds me of like 2 uupls ago I feel like I built a team similar to this. Wanted to build around sub roost kyurem and a long time ago I decided that volt coba is the best pivot option for it so I wanted to do it again this gen. Coba acts as what you're probably gonna be using as a pivot for kyurem in the early game and maybe wincon in the late. Jirachi gives twave and hazard support while just being a general steel type and forming a pivot core with coba. Krook is the speed control and is gonna help with some of the ghosts, rip pursuit tho :(. Jelli seemed perfect here as it can come in on stray scalds and act as a great half of a defensive backbone with weezing, the two of them combined covering the tier's slew of fighting types well. I went with levi on weezing bc I needed ground immunity and you don't defensively answer conk anyways with this more offensive weezing. Also gives hazard removal for Kyurem, you can go boots on him if you want tho I'm sure. Also intim might be the move > moxie on krook we just have so few ground immunities I thought moxie might just run through some offensive teams. If you wanna do specs > sub kyurem you can as well btw, team composition allows it.


Gotta get the webs in somewhere. Webs got a ton of tools this dlc, it's REALLY unfortunate we didn't get at least one decent offensive floaty mon bc jesus fuck it'd make this team insane. Instead I have stupid ass bumass bitchass fuckin idiot Talonflame here. I think something weird like specs switcheroo noiv might be better there? Idk. Either way this is pretty self explanatory throwing offensive mons together, rak aegi goon have insane offensive synergy and rak is a great rocker on a team like this ofc. I went with mixed aegi here bc idt sd has enough oomf for webs, tflame just flies and has a dece speed tier lol. Sylveon is to further help with shit like conk and noiv and all that. Araq is busted >:O. NP Rotom-w might be better than tflame as well there but really not sure.


Conk is quite frightening. I just wanted to do some voltturn shit with conk and this is what I got. I went with scarf rachi as the pivot to try and get it in vs steels and waters that it can just muscle through. Krook keeps rocks up reliably for it and knocks and all that. Rotom forms a nice pivot core with rachi and gives us a ground immunity to pivot into stuff like rhyp/krook/etc. Sylveon sounded kinda busted with conk for wish passing, definitely mfire > hb tho for obvious reasons, not letting aegi in for free and bc conk has flame orb. Aegi sounded like a nice wincon and steel that can pressure psychics and stuff better and glue the team together in the end.


As the title implies I think this loses to conk/keld to an annoying extent but like you can outplay it offensively I think. I got some shitty spread from Lilburr to help w/ keld mu. Anyways, I wanted to do status spam + hex gar and this is what I ultimately came up with. I figured washtom was a decent pivot to get gar in and Jirachi formed a nice pivot core with it and provided hazards and twave support which is super helpful for gar. I added krook as speed control and elec immunity if you fsr play against a toxtricity. Sylveon + conk form a nice core and conk gives you some immediate power and rkill capabilities to glue this team together as a voltturn concept.


Just wanted to do some goon + pivot type stuff. Went with rachi as I figured it could get me in one some stuff like waters I can muscle through or maybe some ghosts. Toad is a good rocker here, I think I originally had rhyp but I didn't really have much of an initial water switch in. Geng is a good wincon here I think and secondary fairy resist that also helps bust through psychics and stuff, although I think aegi works rlly well in that slot too but I decided on the flimsier route with gar, feel free to go aegi tho it'd be fine. Sylv is there bc I figured it'd be neato with goon/rachi/toad and it helps the noiv/fighting mu. Noiv glues the team together with it's speed tier and being able to float and pivot into whatever, blah blah usual noiv stuff.


Wanted to do something with scarf flip turn Keldeo. Figured getting skarm to set spikes on grasses would be cool and goon can muscle through common water resists and act as a breaker that appreciates hazard support. I couldn't fit a dragon or anything like that so I went with toad as the rocker for the water immunity at the cost of making noiv mu a bit worse vs other options like rhyp, I think it's worth tho, hopefully you can chip vern enough for aegi to just win. Weezing is checking most of the fighting types and absorbing tspikes if it must, can also be a big threat with spikes support since it's offensive. Aegi is gonna be your wincon in most cases and I think this team does a good job of taking weight off it's back defensively so even if you need to take a flamethrower from noiv to win you probably will be able to do so.


Wanted to do future sight tele king + conk bc obviously that sounds so far beyond broken it's ridiculous. Core should speak for itself. I wanted to do rocks ttar next but I ended up too aegi weak so I went with rocks krook instead w/ chople, keeps rocks up reliably yada yada. Scarf rachi for speed control and to potentially cripple steels w/ trick for scyther. Weezing to potentially cripple steels for scyther and as a general fighting type switch in and secondary fairy resist blah blah. Scyther as speedy wincon that floats wowowowow. Team might struggle switching into raw scalds a bit but what the FUCK ever.

---

HOPEFULLY this meta shapes up to be the best uu gen yet, which really is NOT a difficult task to achieve. I'm praying for all of us. I hope this post helps literally anybody at all but if it doesn't surely I can get an ego trip with likes or something to make up for it. It's 8am goodbye.
 
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Estarossa

between heaven and earth
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
As I was bored irl, Like Twi i'm gonna briefly talk about a few some sets I've been really enjoying in this new meta so far, and share some comments about Pokemon I feel are banworthy. Will include a few teams ive enjoyed when talking about some of the mons, though these are just some teams ive made quickly for using in room tours / ladder.

:ss/tentacruel:

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Poison Jab
- Rapid Spin

Gonna focus on SD tenta here, as we all know what defensive tenta does already. SD Tentacruel is a really cool option atm, able to serve as a decent late game cleaner and breaker thanks to the Rapid Spin buff, which has been incredible for it honestly and makes it basically the fastest mon in tier after a rapid spin, and also being able to break through Pokemon like Celebi/Roserade that would normally try to check defensive sets, while putting a lot of pressure on Slowking, especially with a lot of versions not running a Psychic-stab othr than Future Sight. Its Water-Poison coverage is completely unresisted in UU, which alongside its fantastic base speed even before a Rapid Spin can really make it quite an effective pick.

:obstagoon: :aegislash: :skarmory: :tentacruel: :terrakion: :hatterene:
https://pokepast.es/a99b5c15fc764029

:ss/skarmory:

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes / Stealth Rock / Defog
- Whirlwind
- Body Press / Brave Bird
- Roost

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 4 SpD / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Skarmory is such an amazing drop, a Steel-type with reliable recovery is exceptional for us in helping to deal with Grass-types like Roserade and Celebi, and its generally fantastic typing and utility it can provide to teams has been making this super splashable on a lot of playstyles for me so far. Skarmory definitely has large 4mss, especially in terms of picking between body press for terrak/lycanroc and brave bird for grass types, but is a fantastic option on most builds just for the defensive utility + spikes it offers.

Ive also tried Iron Defense + Body Press sets, which allow it to check stuff like Conkeldurr really well, while giving it some breaking ability. These sets are unfortunately fairly large fodder to Slowking, which is why ive been preferring to run Whirlwind to maintain the ability to phaze some set up mons out, and punish non boots versions of Slowking. Iron defense + body press also still beats roserade anyway, which u 2hko at +2

Iron defense doing anti conk things - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1143794658

:jirachi: :slowking: :heracross: :palossand: :tentacruel: :skarmory:
https://pokepast.es/e35d332869ee41ef


:ss/slowking:

Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Future Sight
- Teleport
- Scald
- Slack Off

Future Sight + Teleport Slowking has been incredible in all the games i've seen it used in so far really. Slowking itself is a great check to stuff like Jirachi, Starmie, and offensive Weezing that are all pretty good right now, but Teleport + Future Sight really enables the "broken" Fighting-types like Terrakion and Conkeldurr that we have atm, that already have very limited checks as it is while giving them far more breaking opportunities. Having a slower Teleport than Blissey is also really cool. In the above team I instead paired it with a Heracross, which is another great application for it, activating Guts for free, and Slowking checking stuff like Skarm for it.

I've been liking Boots the most as an item on it personally, making it able to pivot around far better without caring about hazards or tspikes, and making regenerator far more effective. Other sets like Nasty Plot seem cool but suffer from top Pokemon like Conk/Aegi being able to easily revenge it.


Pokemon that I personally find banworthy

:aegislash: - Other people in the thread have explained this well already honestly, but Aegislash is kind of absurd with the sheer set variety that you can't really discern too well from preview, apart from like on hyper offense. Sub Toxic, Sub Metal Sound, Specs, CB, SD, even mixed, and there are very limited good checks to most of these sets anyway, with even Incineroar struggling to take CC's from non CB variants. It's not even like Aegislash is a glass cannon either, thanks to Shield form, which Sub Tox sets in particular utterly abuse to the fullest making Aegislash an essentially 680BST mon lol. The power level, sheer versatility and ability to get through any checks it has makes it feel way too much for the tier presently really.

:terrakion: - This one I feel very strongly about honestly, but I personally find Terrakion to be an absolutely massive problem this generation. Its speed tier is better than ever, while we have so few actual defensive checks to it, really just Palossand and Body Press Skarmory, the latter of which doesnt switch into CB and struggles with SD sets. Stuff like Doublade/Air Ballon Aegislash can soft check it too, but really struggle with SD eq versions (once aegis balloon is popped). If this wasn't bad enough, really the offensive counterplay to it is rather limited to an extent, with mainly 110+ base speed mons, certain scarfers like jirachi, and conk, none of which can actually switch into it, while it also gets a lot more opportunities this generation thanks to Teleport Blissey/Slowking. As mentioned by other people, Lycanroc can probably fall under this boat too honestly, but I've found Terrakion a little worse to deal with because of its better bulk and secondary stab personally.

:gengar: - I was very hesitant when I saw the council decision to retest this one, as it hasn't really gained any defensive counterplay, while its opportunities are still very much present to come into play. New stuff like Porygon2, Slowking, and Blissey are also rather fodder to Gengar, especially Blissey which just gives a free substitute on it. While we gained new offensive counterplay in stuff like Lycanroc and Shadow Sneak Aegislash, I dont really feel that we gained enough to make Gengar remotely balanced, especially with its 110 Speed tier being even better than ever thanks to Terrakion.

:conkeldurr:- This thing is insane and really doesn't have any decent switch ins, especially to Guts sets. Stuff like Iron Defense Skarmory can deal with it decently, but it still gains a lot of momentum from the forced recovery it causes. This wouldn't necessarily be the biggest deal to me if it didn't have good strong natural bulk, teleport support, and the ability to force switches against a lot of good mons like Terrakion/Lycanroc/Krookodile, but all of this means in reality it gets way too many opportunities to come into play for how dangerous of a breaker it is. I don't necessarily find other sets like AV and bulk up to be anywhere near as problematic, but they are still excellent sets.


On Topic of Kyurem

:kyurem: - I don't particularly think this is banworthy currently, but can see it being a problem down the line after some bans have taken place. Kyurem is definitely an excellent Pokemon, and benefitted greatly from getting Freeze Dry, allowing it to much more easily get through Slowking and Mantine, and there aren't really many Pokemon that can switch into it decently, with Blissey losing to Subroost sets, Sylveon losing to specs sets and struggling with Subroost sets over time due to Freeze Dry freezes and hazard damage. However, I do feel that Kyurem is more manageable than some of the other threats right now, especially due to the prevalence of checks like Jirachi, Conkeldurr (which doesnt even particularly care about kyurem subbing), Terrakion, Sylveon, Blissey, and Lycanroc. Specs sets also suffer a decent bit from the strong hazard game we have with DLC currently, rather limiting their opportunities over a match.
 
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So Tyranitar is really good in this meta. The CB set has absolutely no switch ins. Even Conk takes way too much from Focus Punch almost getting OHKOd after a bit of chip damage. I think it might be a bit too much for the tier but idk. I haven't tested DD but it's definitely more viable in this tier because the tier is a lot slower than OU. But it's best set is CB just for how good it is at wallbreaking and checking special attackers due to the Spdef boost under sand. Imo Ttar shouldn't be used as a SR setter as you're really missing out on CB. The SR set used to be good when it had Pursuit. It's not bad per se but it's hard to justify over CB. Unless you run SR on CB but it isn't fun to be locked into SR. But yeah Ttar is really good and Crunch is so spammable too.
 
So, given the current disarray UU finds itself in, I figured I might as well give some of my thoughts on these mons. I would like to preface that I am not an expert in this kind of prediction.

Aegislash: So, Aegislash is in UU now. And there are many questions as to why in the name of Arceus this happened. Probably not gonna last.

Conkeldurr: Not as broken as Aegislash, namely due to not having the same level of versatility, but it's still probably a bit much for this tier. This thing pretty much mandates at least one Ghost per team, and even they don't want to switch into Guts- booted Knock Off.

Kyurem: What? No. Please no. The fact this thing can go physical or special (or even bulky) gives me anxiety. If Slash goes (which it probably will), this should go too.

Tyranitar: F for respects for the king. In all seriousness, I do hope Tyranitar isn't broken, since the loss of one move apparently makes him useless in OU and I don't want my boy languishing in BL all gen. Ttar does pack a few nice tricks, between Sand, SR, a solid attack stat to smash any non-Fighting types, maybe DDance (although that probably won't be best option). If he's not banned, I think Ttar could be a damn good mon in UU.

Jirachi: This thing is gonna be top tier, easy. It just backs so much verstality (hazards, set up, flinch hax, trick, Healing Wish). Rachi easily outclasses multiple tier staples at what they do best.

Grimmsnarl: *Screens intensify.* I think this guy has a pretty interesting role in UU, being a natural fit for hyper-offense and a nice Fairy STAB for the tiers many new Fighting types. It might take a more offensive set in this tier to differentiate itself from Klefki, but this'll probably still be its go to set.

Scolipede: You. Yes, you. I see you. I know what you've done the last two times you were allowed in UU. You may be nerfed a bit thanks to no more Z moves, but this is a mon we should definitely keep an eye on.

Skarmory: Well- I did not see this coming. Maybe this thing just didn't find its footing in OU yet, but honestly, Skarm probably prefers being down here without having the raven to compete with it. I expect to see Spikes over Rocks due to less competition for that role, while it also enjoys having the new Body Press to screw with some Rockers (namely Ttar). Not sure if it'll be a suicide lead or a more constant presence in battle, but it will definitely have some significant impact on the hazards sub-meta.

Druddigon: Honestly surprised this thing got enough usage to qualify, as I thought this was gonna be RU, but I guess this thing could have a niche in UU as an offensive lead. Still probably gonna drop, though.

Exploud & Comfey: Yeah, these two are not going to last. They just- don't really do anything here. The loss of HP means Comfey no longer has anything to hit Steel. Exploud, meanwhile, still suffers from the same problems that have dragged it down for the last few gens: too slow, too frail, basically the only thing it has is STAB Boomburst that can hit Ghosts (coming from a less than impressive 91 Special Attack). Eh, it's probably just new toy syndrome, so they should drop soon. (kind of excited to see how they do in RU).

That would be all my guesses for now. Guess there's nothing left to do be see how many I get right. ;)
 
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Oh, Tyranitar dropped? Chandelure has died. Send the chandelier to RU next month please don’t force Chandy to stay in a tier where it has become effectively useless. Skarmory drop is interesting given we now have one of the best defensive types in the game at our disposal.
 

iLiekMudkipz_

I COULD BE BANNED!
Remember that "save tyranitar" meme? Id like to see pokeaim's face once he found out tyranitar dropped to uu and it isnt broken. I havent really played much of the meta, sounds terrible rn.
 

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