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The tumblweed has a surprising number of options for general purposes:
-Priority that Polteageist, Gengar and Espathra are weak to
-Hazards (Spikes)
-Hazard Removal (Rapid Spin)
-Decent recovery (Strength Sap)
And as a heavy-duty rain annoyer:
-Immunity to hurricane
-Water Resist
-Electric Resist
Sadly its defenses are otherwise nothing to write home about (Though good typing can mean a lot, see how You'd think of Lucario as bulkier than Weavile but that's not true on the special side).
Round 2 of the Kickoff tour has now finished, so I'm here with the stats for this round + the overall combined stats for the tour. It seems my post was really liked and appreciated so I'll continue making posts like these throughout the duration of the tour. The round 2 stats, by virtue of it being a later round, are more influenced by stronger and higher-level players and end up having somewhat different results compared to the prior round. Like last time, I'll share my own thoughts and observations on both stats for round 2 as well as what they look like now for the entire tour.
A really common core we've seen throughout the tournament, even more especially in this round, is the core of plus common teammates such as a Water-type in Gastrodon, Slowking, or Quagsire and an offensive Pokemon such as Sandy Shocks, Gengar, Pawmot, or Slither Wing. We've seen this main core of 4 + their possible teammates used on pretty much every bulky offense and balance team out there. This core does it all for balance and bulky offense builds; item displacement, entry hazards, hazard removal, speed control, Steel-type, Gengar check, Espathra check, Fighting-type resist, and so much more. When gathering replays I saw a team featuring these Pokemon outright being spammed and used in at least a dozen games. All of these Pokemon are top tier within their own right and combining them together generates lots of valuable offensive and defensive utility that is a safe bet against the majority of the tier. Tsareena + Talonflame is my favorite part of this core as Talonflame is now opened up to more easily fit U-turn, Taunt, or Wisp now that removal is covered.
Compared to last week's stats, the top 10 are quite different. Tinkaton is still far ahead in the usage stats with Espathra taking #2, although Grafaiai is right up there next to the broken bird in usage stats. Great offensive potential + amazing utility has certainly turned Grafaiai from a weird Pokemon to top 5 Pokemon in a matter of weeks, being a very important answer to Gengar and Espathra. Should they leave, Grafaiai will be less required, but others have theorized sets like Poison Touch pivot with Knock Off that can be very potent in UU. Talonflame follows behind with its strong utility at #4, and then we have a sleeper pick in Slowking take #5, being very dominant over its more physically inclined counterpart thanks to its access to Chilly Reception and ability to retain momentum on bulky offense builds while disrupting rain. Gastrodon is at #6, beating out Quagsire thanks to its better mixed walling capabilities and more flexibility in its moveset. I've seen lots of techs like Clear Smog to reset stats, Sludge Bomb for Tsareena and Hatterene, and Ice Beam for Salamence be used as well as use them myself and they certainly are more varied compared to Quagsire's hazards/toxic/eq/recover. Slither Wing is next up at #7 and the broken Hydreigon takes #8, using both SubNP and Scarf to warrant heavy consideration on teams thanks to how strong it is, glad to see it getting more respect.
The next 3 are tied for #9, 10, and 11 and are Noivern, Sandy Shocks, and Quagsire which round out the very top group. Noivern has been seen a lot more as another abuser of terastalization, using its powerful now STAB Boomburst to be difficult to wall which using its high speed and great coverage to beat out a variety of threats like Gengar, Hawlucha without Unburden activated, Pawmot, Haxorus, and Lucario. It hasn't fallen into the Defog role we thought it would since it was one of the few that kept Defog and instead is now one of the premier offensive threats that keeps rising. Idt anyone expected Noivern to beat out Salamence by a large margin considering their relationship was the opposite last gen. Meanwhile, Sandy Shocks has been a reliable perfomer in the tier, fitting well with the core I brought up earlier as a strong offensive threat. It offers nice compression with hazards and is a solid lead on hyper offense as well, but with so many other Stealth Rocks and Spikes users around, it can focus on maximizing its offensive potential with lures like Power Gem for Kilowattrel or Tera Grass Blast for Quagsire and Gastrodon. Runs into a bit of trouble with our Grasses since it only can use Tera Ice to hit them but just pivot out instead. Good Pokemon. Lastly, Quagsire is still an incredible wall and great stop to a lot of threats so seeing it in the top 10 isn't surprising, it's again that Amoonguss/Tangrowth relationship from last gen we are seeing with it and Gastrodon.
In terms of what fell out of the top 10, the least impactful change was Gengar falling down to #13 with only 30 uses. It's still strong and arguably broken but can be limited in a way; Specs is the best set and is nearly unwallable but checks in Grafaiai, Gastrodon, and Tinkaton do exist, plus it gets outmatched by lots of fast stuff like Talonflame, Kilowattrel, Noivern, Scarf users like Hydreigon, Staraptor, and Pawmot, and other stuff like priority from Mimikyu and Azumarill. Still strong but not a surprise to see even more dangerous stuff like Hydreigon or Pokemon that offer more utility like Gastrodon, Talonflame, and even Noivern over it. Moreover, Pawmot was at #16 with 22 uses and Azumarill was #18 with 20 uses. I can't say much about the former but with the latter we are seeing a bit more limits of it now that it is on the radar for many with many Water resists like Quagsire, Slowking, Gastrodon, Tsareena, and Brambleghast being really common and Play Rough still not being super free to click with Talonflame and Tinkaton being used a lot. Lastly, the biggest fall was Pelipper from #9 last week to #22 this week. I think it's just more players realizing rain has a lot of flaws and not really bothering to use it in the current climate, I talked about why its mid a lot last time so check that post out if you want more thoughts on why rain is not that good.
The cumulative usage stats look pretty similar to this last round's effects, the dip in usage Azumarill, Pawmot, and Pelipper had knocked them down a bit while others like Slowking, Hydreigon, Noivern, and Talonflame keep rising. Even the ones who have remained steady like Tsareena, Sandy Shocks, and Bisharp have been to eclipse the rain stuff. Haxorus is now above Brute Bonnet and Forretress in usage, all is right with Underused. Overall, this tournament is giving many players a good grasp of what the metagame is looking like and we really can see the formation and development of this enjoyable tier as time goes on. Even though I liked gen 8 it does really feel like a fresh breath of new air and the fun hasn't stopped.
So I'm running a pretty normal looking stall team and my opponent is running a Psychic Terrain hyper offense, neither of which are too common right now but both teams are part of clearly defined archetypes so this isn't a shocker. I think the MU hinges on one main question - what is IDT's Hydreigon set? If it's a Nasty Plot set, particularly with Taunt and a move to kill Tinkaton, I could be very well screwed on MU alone. If it's a Choice Scarf set, then I should be okay - not necessarily favored since Polteageist still sweeps pretty easily, I'll need to keep Tinkaton and CM Blissey healthy for it. He doesn't really have threats besides these mons though so I can concentrate my resources vs them.
I figure the Tinkaton lead is super obvious so they will probably lead Donphan. Tinkaton matches up well vs most of the team which is why I thought it was obvious. I thought Alomomola was a good way to punish Donphan but in retrospect Talonflame might have been better since it can punish Donphan even more badly with Wisp and doesn't care about losing boots if it can keep rocks off which I can since it has Defog.
Early game - information game and cycling - turn 1-12
Turn 1 --> I swap to Tinkaton, thinking the Espeon is probably an offensive set with Expanding Force and I can make some proggers by using KnocK off the next turn which I do. Their Psychic seems perfectly valid to me to get some damage. He reveals Yawn later and I think it's smart not to use it now. I very well may have decided to let Alomomola take the Sleep since I don't need it that much and I can afford to sit on Cloyster with it since I have a Quagsire in the back.
Turn 2 --> Knock off is pretty obvious from me and perfectly valid.SR doesn't make sense here since Donphan can keep it off and I can't risk hammer spammer to Knock Off Donphan afterwards because I need it healthy for multiple threats, especially Polteageist. IDT had a choice here actually although I think he clearly made the right one, going Donphan. The other option was Hydreigon - he is Choice Scarf so losing Choice Scarf actually helps him arguably vs my team (though being slower than Talonflame isn't great). Why is Donphan better? Well, he probably should try to bluff NP Hydreigon as long as possible since it's a looming terrifying threat.
Turn 3--> So Knock Off from them makes plenty of sense, if they ever get SR up I will always be forced to spend time Defogging with Talonflame. It was obviously risky though with Flame Body incoming. Another option they had was to simply double switch to one of the Psychics - I was pretty obviously going Talonflame or Alomomola on the Donphan, both of the Psychics badly threaten me. I think this was actually probably better but not by much.
Turn 4 and 5--> These turns give me some critical information on Hydreigon, namely it is not Nasty Plot and getting it burned will help chip it. That's great news for me with one small caveat - that it has U-Turn and that I never want to risk Tinkaton's health on a fire/ground move means Blissey is actually my only good switch in to it, but as I'm HDB my Blissey can be slightly chipped over time vs Hydreigon since Donphan forces me out (and the 8 healing pp this gen means I can't spam healing anyways to stay at 100% even if they couldn't force me out).
This slight chip is actually still annoying since I need to be in tip top shape to beat Polteageist so his Hydreigon, despite being generally the worst set vs stall, ironically can still make some progress vs my team.
Turn 6 and 7 --> You can see the game cycling a bit into the whole Rocks with Donphan, Defog with Talonflame, Hydreigon comes in on Defog and threatens stuff. When you get these cycles, it's absolutely critical to be able to understand who is winning, or at least, who is making progress from the cycle. If you're making progress, you have the luxury of keeping up with the cycle and not changing anything. It's not too clear who is making proggers here, again, the whole U-Turn chip on Blissey does annoy me but obviously I'm scoring burn damage on Hydreigon and it's not easy for him to constantly be predicting (I have safe counters, he has to predict).
Turn 8 --> Which leads us to this critical turn - just because I'm (arguably) making progress in this cycling, doesn't mean I can't end the cycling myself, I go Tinkaton which felt safe to me - he was either going to Draco/Dark Pulse the Talonflame or U-Turn the Chansey. Tinkaton obviously takes it all well and I get the best case scenario. I do think U-Turn was an improvement for him, there's no way I was going to risk Talonflame to die to a Draco there, it's so early in the game and I'm not really likely to take such risks so early with such a defensive team.
Turn 9 --> Donphan is super obvious so I have a few choices. I could double switch to Talonflame to try and make some serious progress on it, but I figure getting a solid unhealable chunk (he never had Leftovers) with Gigaton Hammer is super safe and super helpful.
Turn 10, 11 and 12 --> The cycling begins anew and he makes a bit more progress on my Blissey. Perhaps Alomomola was better for me here, his U-Turn seems very necessary and good on turn 12. However, at the end of turn 12 he decides to change the pace and go for a Cloyster attack instead of starting a new Donphan rocks Talonflame Hydreigon cycle.
End of the cycle - turn 13 to 43
Turn 13 --> I go Quagsire to counter Cloyster here which really probably isn't right, it seems like Alomomola would have been better, since if Cloyster boosts, I could just Wish and pass to Quagsire anyways.
Turn 14 to 18 --> I of course have to Recover spam early on but by turn 16, 17 and 18, I can legitimately begin to think of just using Toxic to wreck the Cloyster. Honestly I probably should have - Quagsire is basically useless bar Cloyster MU since basically all Poltegeist run Giga Drain and Stored Power wallops me anyways, plus I don't need it to beat Donphan. Regardless, at the end of this sequence, my opponent clearly makes progress as my Recover PP is WAY more valuable than a few Icicle Spear PP.
Turn 19 and 20 --> I do like this Yawn from the opponent, which annoys Tinkaton badly - I cannot really let her fall asleep especially if I can't even burn a sleep turn. The issue is if I fall asleep as Donphan comes in and forces me out, then I didn't burn a sleep turn and my Tinkaton could be very well out of commission for the whole game since Heal Bell was dexited.
Turn 21 --> Nice Donphan double although it wasn't particularly hard for my opponent, still good play and not letting Blissey heal.
Turn 22 to 26 --> So it looks like the cycle is about to start again but IDT goes for Espeon instead of Hydreigon which is pretty interesting and good in my opinion. The Yawns are absolutely on point (if not making progress for him as I can just switch back and forth), what he wants to avoid is Psychicing the Blissey switch in and then I recover back to 100% and he lost all that progress he made with Hydreigon's U-turns.
Turn 27 --> A very well timed double switch to Cloyster from my opponent. It's beginning to get obvious I can and will endlessly swap between Tink and Blissey so he brings Cloyster in on Blissey - not Tinkaton which can threaten Cloyster a bit more/take time to set up SR).
Turn 28 -->So this I think is the first clear and impactful mistake from the opponent. Rock Blast doesn't make too much sense (not just because it misses!) but it was going to do near zilch to Alomomola and Quagsire anyways. Shell Smash and Icicle Spear were really the only plays. Is Rock Blast a "mid ground" (midground = never optimal move but a move that still does something vs your opponent's options)? Sort of. But I think not really, a mid ground, or at least a good one, makes progress no matter what. I'm not sure what progress a Rock Blast was going to do to Alomomola.
Turn 29 --> Whirlpool is pretty obvious to start some serious chip damage on anything. Shell Smash is certainly okay by the opponent but only makes clearer that it really should have been clicked last turn.
Turn 30 --> Chilling Water is quite safe to do a bit more chip and almost guarantees I live another Rock Blast should he RB this turn (which he does) unless he gets like 4 crits. Wish and Protect were alternatives.
Turn 31 to 34 --> I do think the opponent pretty much gets the most they possibly could from this interaction, with Alomomola slightly chipped now and me being forced to Quagsire and Toxic with Quagsire (EQ won't kill because Unaware ignores the Shell Smash drops).
Turn 35 --> Nice Hydreigon on the Toxic but I think Espeon is pretty clearly superior. I am simply not valuing Quagsire highly anymore since Cloyster is badly weakened and I discussed earlier why Quagsire isn't really needed and I have nearly no Recovers left anyways. So I am trying to Toxic the Cloyster and Espeon can obviously bounce it back and hurt me badly, but still, I would have been okay with that outcome since I forced Cloyster out.
Turn 36 --> Fine Dark Pulse, easy to say in retrospect that Draco Meteor was better but Dark Pulse was tempting I know.
Turn 37 --> You might think this is an inaccuracy from IDT but I will cut him some slack here. Yes he could have doubled to Donphan on the fairly obvious Blissey/Tink BUT...there is a high likelihood of me clicking Protect to scout that. So Dark Pulsing again isn't hoping to kill Alomomola as much as it is hoping to burn the Protect and make a double on turn 38 possible. I am aware of this so choose to switch right away, which finally lets me heal Blissey but Donphan does come in and tries another cycle.
Turn 38 to 41 --> Except this time, IDT goes for a Knock off to get some chip on Talonflame, knowing I am a little too scared to Roost on an EQ. That does cost him a chance to get burned though, which I don't get, as well as a Brave Bird hit on Hydreigon's face - that seemed fine, he had nothing else to take it really.
Turn 42 --> A sort of risk from me but it's not like I need Alomomola with Cloyster this low. As stated in the MU/Lead section, I am liberated to concentrate all my resources on keeping my Polteageist counter play healthy.
Turn 43 --> More Yawn stuff, again, this isn't really impressing me as I can switch back and forth between Tink and Blissey, the onus is on IDT to change it up or he will just slowly lose.
He changes it up - is it enough? turn 43 to end.
Turn 44 and 45--> So he does change things up now, deciding to heal Cloyster and do some damage with him which I think is a very good decision. It also caught me off guard a bit as I didn't know Indeedee male gets Healing Wish. Anyways, the Terra Liquidation looked super well timed to me, as losing a chunk of health on Tinkaton opened me up to a Polteageist sweep later on. I didn't really want to give Cloyster a free turn since I had a weakened Alomomola and a Quagsire with very little PP to deal with it. But maybe I should have gave something up here instead of keeping Tinkaton. Still, anticipating the Terra Water was not easy at all and this damage on Tinkaton was great for him. Basically all he needs is free set up with Polteageist to win. Unfortunately, he cannot get the terrain boost likely with Indeedee out of the picture.
Turn 46 -->Interesting smash from the opponent. I think they missed an opportunity to win with Polteageist. Yes there is some risk, I might have just sacked Tinkaton here since it was fairly low now anyways. But a double to Poltegeist here would have been simply deadly for me, particularly as he could actually keep Psychic Terrain to some effect, and Alomomola is definitely the safest and most likely looking option for me. I think this was the best chance for IDT to win here - not easy to see though.
Turn 47 to 50 --> I chip Cloyster a bit but not much else happens.
Turn 51 --> Finally he improves on his play from turn 35. Still, not a big deal for me.
Turn 52 --> Maybe just Psychic was better here although it won't make a huge difference. If I can slowly build Leftovers up though I will be happy.
Turn 53 and 54 --> Decent double by me, trying to get Regen, not sure why he hard Rock Blasts, reminds me of turn 28. But this one was more justifiable considering how low Alomomola was.
Turn 54-58 --> Alomomola isn't quite able to kill Cloyster so I concede my Talonflame here so Quagsire can kill it. Note I want Quagsire, not Alomomola, to kill Cloyster so Poltegeist can't get free set up on me.
Turn 59 --> Not really a mistake from the opponent, it seems like they are more like trying to catch me making a mistake and it's not like they need Donphan much anyways except to set up a single SR.
Turn 60 --> Now this is a great quiz question, knowing what you know about my team up until this point, what the heck was the point of Arcanine here? Take a second to think before viewing
lower Donphan's attack so Blissey can set up a CM sweep
It's actually a pretty good sequence IMO and I'm proud of finding it although it doesn't work since he switches out + he had Yawn anyways so I would have only done it if I could get like 4 CM boosts before sleeping to have a good chance vs Poltegeist which isn't likely.
Turn 61-63 --> I finally take another risk on turn 63, if they went Poltegeist as Tinkaton fell asleep it could have been the end for me. But luckily they didn't. And I get pretty much the best possible outcome which is...
Turn 64-66 --> I get SR so Poltegeist breaks its Sash if it has one (quite possible with Sturdy spin Donphan). There is no more Yawn. And Poltegeist has to face Blissey without me wasting a turn to switch in. After I calculate +1 STAB Shadow Ball Blissey kills -1 Polteageist, I go for it and get it. With Poltegeist dead, the game is effectively over.
Concluding thoughts:
Not a bad game from either of us. We definitely could improve, most notably for me by using Alomomola to initially counter Cloyster around turn 13 and while I'm not sure I could improve this, I should get a sharper sense for teras since the hit on Tinkaton set me back a bit. Of course now I know Indeedee Male gets HW.
As for IDT, it's always tough facing stall with a very narrow margin for victory, but particularly on turn 46 they had a chance to run through my team and they either didn't see it or go for it which is a shame. I know it's not easy to maintain pressure with stall when the margin is so small and one set back can reverse a lot of progress that you might not be able to afford. The thing is, it's generally not easy for the stall player either, they are often forced into predictable cycles (as you saw me do many times this game) which IDT did take advantage of, but just didn't take the critical opportunities he had (again, turn 46 and maybe turn 63).
My thoughts are brought to you by a pia! We auctioned off some prizes for an end of year fun project, one of the prizes was me analyzing someone's game. I will analyze the 2nd game of this series sometime this week. Thanks ImDoneThrowing for being a part of this.
Man I just realized I wasn't doing calcs for stored power in psychic terrain, which is probably why I was hesitant to go for a 1v1 against blissey with poltergeist. Also I was running timid (if you brought something like scarf sandy shocks) instead of modest (which had a really good chance of a 2HKO on blissey). Thank you for the game review and ggs
The tumblweed has a surprising number of options for general purposes:
-Priority that Polteageist, Gengar and Espathra are weak to
-Hazards (Spikes)
-Hazard Removal (Rapid Spin)
-Decent recovery (Strength Sap)
And as a heavy-duty rain annoyer:
-Immunity to hurricane
-Water Resist
-Electric Resist
Sadly its defenses are otherwise nothing to write home about (Though good typing can mean a lot, see how You'd think of Lucario as bulkier than Weavile but that's not true on the special side).
I would point out that most rain abusers destroy this thing on the switch, so well it's ok 1v1 vs most of the common abusers, it gets annihilated switching in so it's not really a very large nuisance for rain.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Brambleghast: 358-423 (114 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Brambleghast: 169-200 (53.8 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Brambleghast in Rain: 255-300 (101.5 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kilowattrel Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Brambleghast: 156-183 (62.1 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kilowattrel Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Brambleghast in Rain: 141-166 (56.1 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kilowattrel Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Brambleghast: 105-123 (33.4 - 39.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Brambleghast in Rain: 255-300 (81.2 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Floatzel Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Brambleghast: 302-356 (96.1 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Brambleghast in Rain: 255-300 (101.5 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Floatzel Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Brambleghast: 302-356 (120.3 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I don't really think I need to continue, but skewda also obliterates it.
Decent mon with a funny niche as an offensive hazard setter/spinner that doubles as a spinblocker, and it being good into slowtwins and other fat waters is cool but it will probably end up an NU/RU staple otherwise seeing as it has zero coverage.
this guy is kinda neat. I've been using this set to some decent success. Naturally decent typing against some of the threats in the tier and a sky-high attack stat with a decent speed tier at +1 means this thing can take advantage of weakened teams super duper easily. can definitely play around with tera types like ice/rock/ghost but i think flying works the best given it's coverage options.
Gallade @ Choice Band
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Psycho Cut
- Night Slash
- Shadow Sneak
Gallade is also kinda nice, sits at an ok speed tier and has good special bulk. Sharpness makes all it's accurate stabs super strong. Can even be a last resort check to stupid bird if you get it in on same turn, just need to win the tera 50/50. Strong priority is an added bonus and you can even run leaf blade to smash fat waters a little better but seeing as they don't have scald this generation you can just use night slash for slowtwins and stab for everything else without too much worry.
Just want to point out that Brambleghast should always run max def, otherwise it struggles to spinblock against Donphan. But yeah, even then it struggles against rain boosted water attacks (CB Wave Crash from Floatzel still does 60-70%). I'm honestly confused how a Pokemon with 55/70/70 bulk was ever considered as a rain check.
Brambleghast's biggest competition for grass-type spinner is Tsareena which is essentially trading bulk and u-turn for a better typing, priority, spikes, and recovery; adding a hurricane immunity to that, while not truly checking rain still makes a decent argument. Priority can be very helpful against rain as both floatzel and skewda are also quite frail (and wave crash already limits floatzel's survivability)
It sure doesn't help that pretty much every water type gets some form of ice-type coverage to deal with it. Barraskewda 2hkos it with cb ice fang when it has max def and Hp with a def boosting nature, let alone tera ice tera blast. Floatzel also 2hkos it with ice spinner, and also gets OHKO when tera ice should that be used (though I've mostly used tera grass for floatzel. Can't tell you why.)
Here's the set i run.
Brambleghast @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Wind Rider
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 SpD
Bold Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Strength Sap
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
Colbur helps a lot against knock off from donphan and tinkaton
Water is my favourite type, so I've been playing a lot of rain, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. It seems pretty viable, I think I'm just bad at teambuilding and battling.
Main Team:
Pelipper, Barraskewda, Jolteon, Wo-Chien, Donphan, Arcanine
I know that in the OU threads, Wo-Chien has been touted as bad, but I think it's really good in UU. Fantastic bulk that is just added to because of its ability. I've also found that I enjoy Jolteon more than Kilowattrel, especially with Tera Ice. The extra 5BP in speed and SpAtk are worth it for me, especially for how often I tera Jolteon.
Of course, I'm lower tier, so I'm wondering how higher ranked players are finding rain.
Pls dont use Jolteon. Is a trap from years and scream new players. Yes, high speed is good but does no type of damage and lacking a secondary STAB hurt. Terastalization help but a broken tools help all mons. Kilo anf the Rotoms are far superior Electrics Type rn.
Pls dont use Jolteon. Is a trap from years and scream new players. Yes, high speed is good but does no type of damage and lacking a secondary STAB hurt. Terastalization help but a broken tools help all mons. Kilo anf the Rotoms are far superior Electrics Type rn.
Hi i just made an account here because i couldnt find a smogen build for SV Lurantis and I'd love help :) (yes ik its relatively a bad pokemon but theyre pretty so idc) thanks
Lurantis is kind of in a bad place right now, since it lost both Superpower and Knock Off, two moves that made it usable in lower tiers like Pu last generation. However, if you really insist on using it, these sets are probably its most viable sets.
Defogger
Lurantis would probably function best as a defogger to support its team and remove entry hazards. Contrary + Leaf Storm allows it to boost its SpAtk by 2 stages after each attack, which gives it the potential to accumulate boosts over time. This set has enough speed to outspeed pokemon with base speed of 50 with no EV investment, most notably Donphan. The rest is invested into HP and Def to give it better survivability against physical attackers, with Synthesis as a source of recovery so that it can switch in multiple times.
As for Tera-type, Fire would probably work the best, which allows it to deal good damage to Steel-types like Tinkaton and Bisharp. Additionally, Tera-Fire allows you to survive hits like First Impression from Slither Wing and hit back for super-effective damage. However, this would leave you vulnerable to other attacks like Earthquake from Donphan and Aqua Jet from Azumarill. Tera-Electric is another idea, allowing you to remove the 7 weaknesses of the Grass-type in exchange for a single weakness. Furthermore, Tera Blast is now able to hit Flying-types like Staraptor and Talonflame for super-effective damage. Other options for Tera-types include Water, which is more of a defensive Terastallization option to take the Fire-type and Ice-type attacks.
As for teammates, Lurantis can really abuse bulky Ground-types like Quagsire, Gastrodon, Donphan, and Hippowdon. These ground-types usually like to set up hazards too, and Lurantis can take advantage of that to switch in and threaten them out. Conversely, teammates like Sandy Shocks or Pawmot can lure in these bulky Grounds for Lurantis to switch into, allowing Lurantis to get a hit off or remove hazards. Bulky Waters like Slowking, Slowbro, and previous mentions like Quagsire and Gastrodon also can synergize defensively with Lurantis, taking the super-effective hits that Lurantis doesn't want to.
Note: Small note about Hippo, it has Sand Stream which sets up Sandstorm, which would reduce the amount recovered from Synthesis
Lurantis @ Life Orb / Heavy Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Leaf Guard
Tera Type: Fire / Electric
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Trailblaze
- Leaf Blade
- Tera Blast / Night Slash / Brick Break / Leech Life / Synthesis
- Swords Dance / Synthesis
Trailblaze Sweeper
This is more of a meme set, as there are better options over Lurantis like Leafeon and Brute Bonnet. The downside of using Trailblaze to boost speed is that you cannot run Contrary + Leaf Storm on the same set. This set makes use of Lurantis' higher base Attack stat to deal damage. It has enough Speed EVs to outspeed Honchkrow after 1 Speed boost from Trailblaze, and Gengar after 2 Speed boosts. Leaf Blade is a higher BP STAB move to allow Lurantis to deal more damage.
As for the final two moveslots, it will be up to what you want to hit. Tera-Fire and Tera-Electric Tera Blast are good coverage options in general and probably Lurantis' best options, although other options like Tera-Ground to hits Steels and Fires, and Tera-Rock to hit Fires and Flyings can be considered. Night Slash is a coverage option to hit Gengar super-effectively, Brick Break can be considered for Bisharp, and Leech Life for some recovery and coverage against Hydreigon. Swords Dance can be ran to boost its Attack to make Lurantis more threatening, but it will be difficult to find the opportunity to get both a Swords Dance and Trailblaze up. Synthesis helps with survivability, allowing Lurantis to function as a check to Ground-types.
For item choices, Life Orb should be used to improve Lurantis' damage output, with the recoil damage being mitigated with Synthesis or Leech Life. If not running Synthesis, Heavy Duty Boots and Leftovers are preferred to improve Lurantis' survivability. For teammates, the choices mentioned for the previous set would also work well for this set. Sandy Shocks has the additional benefit of having access to both Stealth Rocks and Spikes, allowing to set up hazards to chip away at opposing pokemon switching in, giving Lurantis an easier time to clean up. Another notable option is Talonflame, which can cripple opponents with burns and lure in Water-types for Lurantis.
Conclusion
Lurantis definitely struggles to find a noticeable niche in the current meta, with options like Talonflame, Noivern, and Altaria outclassing it as a defogger, along with a myriad of other physical attackers with better speed that can perform the Physical Sweeper role better. Maybe it would be better in lower tiers in the upcoming months, maybe not. I don't know how well-versed you are with competitive 6v6 singles, so this post might be overkill. Whatever the case, godspeed to you, Lurantis lover, and I wish you all the best in your battles. May your Focus Blasts hits, and your Leaf Blades crit.
One notable occurrence we see is a dip in Espathra usage this round, as its now #2 spot has been overtaken by Grafaiai and it has fallen a fair bit compared to more consistent utility Pokemon like Talonflame and Quagsire. We all know how broken and overcentralizing it is, but we also do know that Tinkaton and Grafaiai's absurdly high usage is a product of Espathra's chokehold on the metagame, meaning that it might not always be worth running now that people are stacking answers such as the aforementioned two Pokemon and Bisharp, another threat I'll get into shortly. Think about it like Gen 8 OU Dracovish, very busted and mandated Seismitoad on every team, but as a result became less worth running because there would always be that Seismitoad to cause it problems. Still, Espathra will forever be known as the nightmare of UU Alpha and we are already seeing new sets like Tera Dark to completely shut down teams relying on Grafaiai to stop it, so it will always find a way.
As alluded to earlier, one major development is the rise in Bisharp usage this last round, settling in at #4 in usage this round and #12 in the overall tour. Bisharp not only provides good counterplay to Espathra with its strong attacks for both Psychic and Tera Fairy as well as ability to take hits thanks to Eviolite (watch out for Tera Fighting though) but also abuses a number of tier staples at the moment. Tinkaton, Grafaiai, and Brambleghast are basically free entry for it although the former can still hinder it, giving Bisharp free turns to fire off attacks against teams that rely on Gastrodon or Slowking as their defensive Pokemon thanks to their inability to handle it, and Sucker Punch is a valuable tool in taking down Gengar. Although it is far from the tier king, Bisharp still solidifies itself as an integral part of the tier thanks to its useful and potent mix of offensive and defensive presence.
In terms of other indicators of usage this round, apart from the big 3 (Tinkaton with 51 uses, Grafaiai with 36 uses, and Talonflame with 33 uses), the frontrunners are all very close in usage. From #4 to #14 is only a gap of 5 uses. We see Quagsire and Brambleghast overtake their competition in Gastrodon and Tsareena this week, swapping places compared to last week, but I'd just say its the fluidity of the stats and with both being very equal in viability its natural to see fluctuations where one beats out the other and vice versa the following week. Slither Wing has notably fallen out of the top 10 this round, reflecting a natural decline in usage as the tier develops and players seeing its good but not that good. Everything else is pretty much the same in regards to the higher end of usage, most stuff are in the same position as last week. Rain still keeps on falling.
I don't have much to say regarding the cumulative stats, the top 10 from last time are the same this time, although Talonflame has solidified itself as #4 rather than be tied with Slither Wing while Quagsire and Hydreigon are now tied for 9/10. Some interesting stats include Grafaiai being on the verge of overtaking Espathra by only a few more uses while Tinkaton almost has 100 more uses than the second most used Pokemon. My future predictions is that some of the mid-level Pokemon (Hatterene, Lucario, Rotom-W, and Mimikyu) will fully overtake Pelipper and Kilowattrel in the stats. I'm also confident Grafaiai will pass Espathra this next round as well as our best defensive Water-types to pass Gengar in the usage hierarchy. That's all for this post, I'll see you next time.
What is the most generally useful Tera type for Altaria? The problem with tera steel is that defensive sets don’t really have any means of threatening fairies or dragons you’d want to eat a hit from, and mono steel kills your ability to check most of the things you’d want to check.
So with Tinkaton being used so much, is it considered broken? Or more like a Lando-T in OU? I haven't used it at all and have faced none I think on ladder, so I don't know anything about it.
So with Tinkaton being used so much, is it considered broken? Or more like a Lando-T in OU? I haven't used it at all and have faced none I think on ladder, so I don't know anything about it.
It's more comparable to Lando-T, yeah. Tinkaton's most common set is Spdef which is useful for handling some of the most dangerous offensive mons in the format, Espathra, Gengar and choiced Hydreigon. It's also got a good amount of utility with Rocks, Knock and Encore. Not that it can't be an offensive threat, some people run attack investment and SD is a fairly common option even on defensive sets, but those are nowhere near broken. In general, its typing and utility just give it a lot of value and splashability which is why it's used so much,
What is the most generally useful Tera type for Altaria? The problem with tera steel is that defensive sets don’t really have any means of threatening fairies or dragons you’d want to eat a hit from, and mono steel kills your ability to check most of the things you’d want to check.
steel lets altaria take a hit from maybe a haxorus or cetitan or something and burn it in a pinch, you wouldnt really tera it unless you were in that kinda situation. i see what you mean it cant do much to touch fairies but thats alright, in most of those cases you would just switch anyways so you dont have to burn your tera
No idea what it did in the tournament, but I once lost to Tera-Water Bulk Up Gogoat with Sap Sipper because I thought, "That's a Gogoat in UU, what is up with that?" and let it Goat all over me.
edit: Running the Round 1 and 2 replays through advanced Gogoat recognition software, I found the following Gogoat replays.
replay 1 acted as moral support replay 2 Gogoat sweep robbed by Slowking and Slither Wing replay 3 Gogoat W
replay 4 anti-Gogoat offense replay 5 Gogoat bulked up too close to the Drednaw
One notable occurrence we see is a dip in Espathra usage this round, as its now #2 spot has been overtaken by Grafaiai and it has fallen a fair bit compared to more consistent utility Pokemon like Talonflame and Quagsire. We all know how broken and overcentralizing it is, but we also do know that Tinkaton and Grafaiai's absurdly high usage is a product of Espathra's chokehold on the metagame, meaning that it might not always be worth running now that people are stacking answers such as the aforementioned two Pokemon and Bisharp, another threat I'll get into shortly. Think about it like Gen 8 OU Dracovish, very busted and mandated Seismitoad on every team, but as a result became less worth running because there would always be that Seismitoad to cause it problems. Still, Espathra will forever be known as the nightmare of UU Alpha and we are already seeing new sets like Tera Dark to completely shut down teams relying on Grafaiai to stop it, so it will always find a way.
As alluded to earlier, one major development is the rise in Bisharp usage this last round, settling in at #4 in usage this round and #12 in the overall tour. Bisharp not only provides good counterplay to Espathra with its strong attacks for both Psychic and Tera Fairy as well as ability to take hits thanks to Eviolite (watch out for Tera Fighting though) but also abuses a number of tier staples at the moment. Tinkaton, Grafaiai, and Brambleghast are basically free entry for it although the former can still hinder it, giving Bisharp free turns to fire off attacks against teams that rely on Gastrodon or Slowking as their defensive Pokemon thanks to their inability to handle it, and Sucker Punch is a valuable tool in taking down Gengar. Although it is far from the tier king, Bisharp still solidifies itself as an integral part of the tier thanks to its useful and potent mix of offensive and defensive presence.
In terms of other indicators of usage this round, apart from the big 3 (Tinkaton with 51 uses, Grafaiai with 36 uses, and Talonflame with 33 uses), the frontrunners are all very close in usage. From #4 to #14 is only a gap of 5 uses. We see Quagsire and Brambleghast overtake their competition in Gastrodon and Tsareena this week, swapping places compared to last week, but I'd just say its the fluidity of the stats and with both being very equal in viability its natural to see fluctuations where one beats out the other and vice versa the following week. Slither Wing has notably fallen out of the top 10 this round, reflecting a natural decline in usage as the tier develops and players seeing its good but not that good. Everything else is pretty much the same in regards to the higher end of usage, most stuff are in the same position as last week. Rain still keeps on falling.
I don't have much to say regarding the cumulative stats, the top 10 from last time are the same this time, although Talonflame has solidified itself as #4 rather than be tied with Slither Wing while Quagsire and Hydreigon are now tied for 9/10. Some interesting stats include Grafaiai being on the verge of overtaking Espathra by only a few more uses while Tinkaton almost has 100 more uses than the second most used Pokemon. My future predictions is that some of the mid-level Pokemon (Hatterene, Lucario, Rotom-W, and Mimikyu) will fully overtake Pelipper and Kilowattrel in the stats. I'm also confident Grafaiai will pass Espathra this next round as well as our best defensive Water-types to pass Gengar in the usage hierarchy. That's all for this post, I'll see you next time.
These stats aren't the monthly stats that determine tiering placement, these are for the current tournament. What stays and goes may not have anything to do with tournament usage, although some pokemon could see rises or falls depending on what happens in tournaments.
But to answer, it's 4.52%, so you can look forward to that in a little over a week.
No idea what it did in the tournament, but I once lost to Tera-Water Bulk Up Gogoat with Sap Sipper because I thought, "That's a Gogoat in UU, what is up with that?" and let it Goat all over me.
edit: Running the Round 1 and 2 replays through advanced Gogoat recognition software, I found the following Gogoat replays.
replay 1 acted as moral support replay 2 Gogoat sweep robbed by Slowking and Slither Wing replay 3 Gogoat W
replay 4 anti-Gogoat offense replay 5 Gogoat bulked up too close to the Drednaw
The phrase "Advanced Gogoat Recognition Software" genuinely put a smile on my face, so thank you for that.
So that this isn't just a one-liner, I want to talk about potential rises and drops, as that's happening in ~9 days from this post.
Probable rises to OU:
I think if the OU stats had been done even a week later, the cheese chicken would never have dropped to UU and our life this past month would've been so much better. It's by far the best cleaner in OU, let alone UU, and I can't wait for it to go. I don't have anything less to say about this we've all spent the last month counting down the days for this to happen.
a much more devastating and pretty likely rise. For all two of you who don't know, Hatterene has been picking up a ton of steam in OU and is likely to rise to A/A+ on the OU VR, which will increase its usage even more. It's probably the best hazard remover in the game right now and CM Tera Water sets are another of OU's best win conditions at the minute. It's not as likely to rise as Espathra but if it does last the month I don't think it lasts into february. Even without Tera physdef sets just deny an entire tier's worth of hazards and that might be enough for a rise on its own.
This missed out on OU by less than a percentage point last month. While usage and viability don't correlate, now that there is VR and players can see it in the A ranks alongside other OU by usage things plus new toy syndrome hopefully wearing off for some things, I don't think we'll see this next month. Shame since it's a very good offensive pivot/emergency rain check that the tier benefited from a lot. Rotom-H isn't a good replacement, really.
This is the one I'm the most unsure on rising. Azumarill has picked up traction in OU as tera types get optimized for it and due to it making a great partner for the current best Pokemon in OU, Chi-Yu. Like in UU, Band sets are the best for it with BD not too far behind, only being stopped by like, Dondozo in full. I think this happened a little too late in the month for it to actually rise, but even if it doesn't I doubt it stays UU for long as it's pretty broken here.
Drops:
Getting this one out of the way first, not even Torkoal being the best it's ever been can save Charizard in OU now that there's eight new Protosynthetic sun sweepers. And it doesn't really have anything to offer in UU either, I think it'll be outclassed by Talonflame pretty solidly and without sun it's just an average special breaker with good coverage. Maybe RU will get to enjoy this.
It might be a bit early in the generation for the Ditto cycle to propagate, but this always starts in OU and always ends up in Untiered as the metagame settles down. The presence of Shed Tail teams probably keep it in OU for now, but it might happen.
Okay. These are NOT going to happen. They should happen, but they won't. Both of these Pokemon are absolutely awful in OU and have no real viability in the tier to speak of, but both of them were tailor-made in a lab for Poketubers to upload videos with them in the thumbnail and a title like "EARLY GAME BUG DESTROYS OU???" so it's unlikely they drop for several months yet. I think they'd both be pretty fine in UU, they're both strong but Lokix isn't quite strong enough and Maushold gets stopped by any normal resist ever. And hey, it's been a while since we've had an Ambipom situation in OU, so I guess that's neat.
Cyclizar won the shed tail war and Orthworm got outcompeted pretty harshly after the initial hype. Outside of Charizard this is probably the thing I'd think is most likely to drop. Orthworm is cool. Shed Tail is just subpass but it doesn't have regen so it can probably only do it once? Outside of Shed Tail, I think Orthworm stands to be a pretty decent defensive mon. Pure steel typing with a ground immunity is pretty good defensively, as fire isn't really a type right now with all the rain and several of the best fighting types are likely to be quickbanned, plus it has access to rocks, spikes, or even ironpress. Could be cool if it drops?
If this drops and Lokix and/or Maushold doesn't I will take it as a sign that 2023 isn't going to be any better than 2022 was.
plus common teammates such as a Water-type in Gastrodon, Slowking, or Quagsire and an offensive Pokemon such as Sandy Shocks, Gengar, Pawmot, or Slither Wing. We've seen this main core of 4 + their possible teammates used on pretty much every bulky offense and balance team out there. This core does it all for balance and bulky offense builds; item displacement, entry hazards, hazard removal, speed control, Steel-type, Gengar check, Espathra check, Fighting-type resist, and so much more. When gathering replays I saw a team featuring these Pokemon outright being spammed and used in at least a dozen games. All of these Pokemon are top tier within their own right and combining them together generates lots of valuable offensive and defensive utility that is a safe bet against the majority of the tier. Tsareena + Talonflame is my favorite part of this core as Talonflame is now opened up to more easily fit U-turn, Taunt, or Wisp now that removal is covered.
