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Bulky Mimikyu has proved surprisingly effective in the metagame so far. It sets up on stuff like Shadow Ball Blissey and Baxcalibur, Wisps the otherwise horrifying Lokix and Staraptor, and in general provides a lot of utility against the mainly physical meta. It does face competition from other Ghosts, but that Fairy typing is invaluable in the current meta. Also, it's a semi-check to Bax, which is NOT something most other mons can say(as long as they aren't Orthworm, that is). Speaking of Orthworm, this works great on hazard stacking teams specifically. It can come in on spins from Donphan or Tsareena and threaten them out with a Wisp, maybe even an SD, and it can really abuse Pain Split from what I've seen of it. I can't think of anything else to say in this post. Just a pretty good mon overall.
Bulky Mimikyu has proved surprisingly effective in the metagame so far. It sets up on stuff like Shadow Ball Blissey and Baxcalibur, Wisps the otherwise horrifying Lokix and Staraptor, and in general provides a lot of utility against the mainly physical meta. It does face competition from other Ghosts, but that Fairy typing is invaluable in the current meta. Also, it's a semi-check to Bax, which is NOT something most other mons can say(as long as they aren't Orthworm, that is). Speaking of Orthworm, this works great on hazard stacking teams specifically. It can come in on spins from Donphan or Tsareena and threaten them out with a Wisp, maybe even an SD, and it can really abuse Pain Split from what I've seen of it. I can't think of anything else to say in this post. Just a pretty good mon overall.
It isn't really a check to bax imo (not a good one anyway). Not only does any non dragon move bust the disguise, but bax can Tera to turn the tables on mimikyu (being immune to it's will o wisps too thanks to thermal exchange).
Odd how no Spidops set seems to be running Silk Trap, because being able to drop the enemy's speed on direct contact + Protect in one move is definitively interesting
Protect type moves aren't that common outside of stall, specially since not many mons have toxic to abuse that. Maybe if you mix it with t spikes it may work
So Baxcaliber became the nextborn of espathra... Thankfully ditto dropped to UU so at least we can use that as an temporary answer for it I guess, because it can run tun fairy and steel Tera to beat everything, topping off with shed tail now in the tier letting it get a free ddance more often. Any real answer for it yet?
Edit: okay, it's not as bad as it seems, lokix ohko it half of the time and every prankster mons especially klefki cripple it hard, still if it get behind sub its unstoppable, really.
It isn't really a check to bax imo (not a good one anyway). Not only does any non dragon move bust the disguise, but bax can Tera to turn the tables on mimikyu (being immune to it's will o wisps too thanks to thermal exchange).
Yeah you shouldn’t use it as your main Bax check or smth, but it’s still pretty decent as a backup check. Besides, that’s not really the main purpose of the set, it’s made to Wisp a ton of shit and click Pain Split for healing sometimes.
I know everybody's posted their first impressions of the metagame already and acknowledged that it's still very early and we gotta wait before making more decisions and whatnot. so I won't bore you with mine. I played a decent bit of games yesterday and almost won a roomtour: was quite fun! Hydreigon is silly, Bax doesn't seem broken (to me), Midshold, etc.
However one thing that really catches my attention is that apparently people aren't using Lycanroc-dusk enough for it to be classified as a proper UU Pokemon. Which is extremely sad, because Lycanroc-Dusk is really really good!
Prof. Lupin (Lycanroc-Dusk) @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Accelerock
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head / Fire Fang
I have been using this set in virtually every team I make for well over a hundred games now (approaching 150) and I'm pretty solid that this mon is fantastic. Accelrock is solid, tc-boosted, STAB-boosted priority that no team ever has too little of (and I cannot stress how many games have been saved by this and this alone). Even without an adamant boost it makes for a really solid revenge-killer when the opposition's chipped:
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. -2 0 HP / 0 Def Polteageist: 292-344 (111.8 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 250-296 (75.5 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kilowattrel: 312-369 (111 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 250-296 (75.5 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 165-196 (53 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (almost always kills after it wave crashes a target)
Accelrock can usually deal a solid 50% min to virtually any unresisted target, which makes it great for both cleaning up games and stopping setup sweepers. Stone Edge is a decent-ish STAB option that's held back by low accuracy but 100 BP (and a crit ratio!) makes it unfun to switch into: which is compounded even more by Close Combat, which hits 156 BP! CC is capable of some pretty obnoxious feats, like forcing quagsire to recover and making non-physically-bulky Tinkaton die after switching into Stone Edge. Iron head and Fire Fang are mostly filler but they have their uses: the former allows you to 2HKO any variant of scream tail with perfect accuracy (and potentially dodge twave/encore with flinches), while the latter lets you beat forretress and klefki better.
To round it off, Tera Fighting Lycan-dusk becomes a verifiable fucking nuke and severely restricts their defensive counterplay:
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Tera Fighting Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 246-290 (62.4 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Tera Fighting Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 199-234 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Tera Fighting Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 196-231 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It also has the nice bonus of now resisting bisharp sucker punch and slither wing first impression, which can be tangentially useful!
Lycanroc-dusk matches up extremely well versus Rain Offense teams and Hyper Offense teams, both of which are very common on ladder (especially in the Alpha). Against the former it can usually threaten every single rain pokemon with ease and revenge all of them, and against the latter the opponent is in a dire strait should lycanroc revenge-kill something and still be alive. Against more balanced structures, the wolf struggles a bit more due to the prevalence of hazards wearing it down even faster and it's fragility (but also really likes spike support to wear down checks even further) and versus defensive teams it's usually too boom-or-bust to achieve much (though it can do great things with the element of surprise). Overall, though? I'd say the wolf is a very good UU Pokemon: probably B+ or even A-, whenever our vr thread comes up at least.
Why people didn't use it enough for it to be UU is one of those perplexing ladder mysteries. But in the meantime, I can gas it up on the forums!
I know everybody's posted their first impressions of the metagame already and acknowledged that it's still very early and we gotta wait before making more decisions and whatnot. so I won't bore you with mine. I played a decent bit of games yesterday and almost won a roomtour: was quite fun! Hydreigon is silly, Bax doesn't seem broken (to me), Midshold, etc.
However one thing that really catches my attention is that apparently people aren't using Lycanroc-dusk enough for it to be classified as a proper UU Pokemon. Which is extremely sad, because Lycanroc-Dusk is really really good!
Prof. Lupin (Lycanroc-Dusk) @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Accelerock
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head / Fire Fang
I have been using this set in virtually every team I make for well over a hundred games now (approaching 150) and I'm pretty solid that this mon is fantastic. Accelrock is solid, tc-boosted, STAB-boosted priority that no team ever has too little of (and I cannot stress how many games have been saved by this and this alone). Even without an adamant boost it makes for a really solid revenge-killer when the opposition's chipped:
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. -2 0 HP / 0 Def Polteageist: 292-344 (111.8 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 250-296 (75.5 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kilowattrel: 312-369 (111 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 250-296 (75.5 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 165-196 (53 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (almost always kills after it wave crashes a target)
Accelrock can usually deal a solid 50% min to virtually any unresisted target, which makes it great for both cleaning up games and stopping setup sweepers. Stone Edge is a decent-ish STAB option that's held back by low accuracy but 100 BP (and a crit ratio!) makes it unfun to switch into: which is compounded even more by Close Combat, which hits 156 BP! CC is capable of some pretty obnoxious feats, like forcing quagsire to recover and making non-physically-bulky Tinkaton die after switching into Stone Edge. Iron head and Fire Fang are mostly filler but they have their uses: the former allows you to 2HKO any variant of scream tail with perfect accuracy (and potentially dodge twave/encore with flinches), while the latter lets you beat forretress and klefki better.
To round it off, Tera Fighting Lycan-dusk becomes a verifiable fucking nuke and severely restricts their defensive counterplay:
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Tera Fighting Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 246-290 (62.4 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Tera Fighting Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 199-234 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Tera Fighting Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 196-231 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It also has the nice bonus of now resisting bisharp sucker punch and slither wing first impression, which can be tangentially useful!
Lycanroc-dusk matches up extremely well versus Rain Offense teams and Hyper Offense teams, both of which are very common on ladder (especially in the Alpha). Against the former it can usually threaten every single rain pokemon with ease and revenge all of them, and against the latter the opponent is in a dire strait should lycanroc revenge-kill something and still be alive. Against more balanced structures, the wolf struggles a bit more due to the prevalence of hazards wearing it down even faster and it's fragility (but also really likes spike support to wear down checks even further) and versus defensive teams it's usually too boom-or-bust to achieve much (though it can do great things with the element of surprise). Overall, though? I'd say the wolf is a very good UU Pokemon: probably B+ or even A-, whenever our vr thread comes up at least.
Why people didn't use it enough for it to be UU is one of those perplexing ladder mysteries. But in the meantime, I can gas it up on the forums!
I second Lycanroc-Dusk. I used it quite a bit with choice band during alpha and it reminds me a bit of Gen 8 weavile where basically nothing wants to switch in. Close Combat is such a nuke. I think there is a serious argument adamant vs jolly, though I'd lean jolly to outrun Tauros-P. Unlike Weavile, Lycan has literally 0 defensive utility and really needs hard reads to be brought in safely. I would also mention that certain builds can run sucker punch to improve their gengar matchup if needed. Brick Break is also a usable fourth move to further enhance your HO matchup. Its movepool is insane, it basically gets every conceivable move it would want to be boosted by tough claws.
Was able to get about 10 games in today and went 9-1 so I just wanted to give some quick opinions from what I've faced so far. I think looking back at this post in a week will give me some interesting answers as the meta progresses.
- Rain seems cool and can force a lot of options on your opponent, but bulky intimidate mons still cause the playstyle a lot of trouble.
- Mence is cool, but I think most people will be getting more out of a bulky set over dd. I've been running a bit more bulky 3 attacks roost and the mix of power and bulkyness makes you usually at least go 1 for 1.
- Tera types in UU seem to be even scarier as certain combinations can cause a lot of problems for most teams. I face a ghost type avalugg today that was a bit harder to kill than I anticipated and anything turning tera for damaging moves can be terrifying.
- Gengar can be good, but gets really prohibited by bliss/chansey twaves, prio, and better options to scarfers now. Hopefully we will be able to use it more as I think it can be goated in the tier without being busted.
- Pokemon with toxic or knock are a lot more valued to me since every mon doesnt get them now. With the lack of these 2 moves, more and more people ignore the issues these moves bring. But if you are able to fit them on, I highly recommend it as it will make your life incredibly easier.
- Brambleghast is the new dhelmise of UU but a bit worst as we dont get poltergeist or synthesis. Thankfully we have a lot of physical attackers so strength sap does wonders for your team along with being able to spin and threaten opposing ghost types with shadow sneak/phantom force. Realistically there are better options, but I don't think it's as bad as people will originally make it out to be.
- Mabostiff is terrifying if used correctly. I think the mon is worth taking a shot on if you can as dark can force out a lot of the ghost types and claim a soul.
- Chilling waters is a goated move to prevent sweeps, people should use it more.
Bonus:
- Dundunsparce coil can kinda be terrifying? I lost to it earlier today due to misplay, but if you disrespect it I think it will come for your throat LOL
I got some good games in after the shifts have set in and I wanted to look back at this post I originally made to see what I now agree/disagree with and add more input on how I think the meta is shaping up with the drops. I am going to section this into response and update so people who want to read whatever small snippets have an easier time.
- Rain still good, but it seems everyone running things like gastrodon gives rain an issue. Tera grass floatzel unbanded has seemed to make an appearance to deal with this. Also probably just my teams but kilowattrel can be so hard to check in rain depending on team. This changes a bit now that we have tyranitar with sand stream though. I think rain will have its place but will slowly get less common due to multiple sand stream users in the tier.
- Mence sucks lmao. Ok that may be a bit exaggerated, but it is not my first look like it once was in SS. With things like bisharp to take defiance boosts from intimidate and also having barely any utility anymore, mence struggles to find its same footing. The tier is also super fast with things like Noivern, Kilo, Rain (mons have ice spinner yuck), and good priority means Mence doesn't feel strong enough or bulky enough to run it over our other dragon options. Especially now with orthworm in the tier giving mence a harder time with last move viability as it is a lot easier to get walled, I'd currently much rather run Bax, Noivern, or Hydreigon
- Still kinda hate tera, kinda love it for stunting on teams. Oricorio with revelation dance feels amazing with it on HO teams, but as much as it can help get free wins, the same frustrations will come back against you when your opponent teras. Definitely a double edged sword.
- Gengar OP i was just using chansey/blissey which aren't extremely good in this meta rn. They are definitely viable but with how many strong physical attackers we got that makes them scared to face, it can make them feel a bit awkward off of stall. Gengar also can beat them with sub nasty plot sets if you don't run Shadow Ball. Other than that Gengar really can do it all. Its set versatility might be pushing it over the edge for me tbh.
- The toxic/knock point still stands and it is showing with tinkaton and grafaiai usage. 2 excellent knockers for the tier, while also Pokemon like Quagsire or toxic spike users like Salazzle and Skuntank make cool additions to teams that can really abuse getting layers up (and punishing gengar for switching in to soak spikes)
- Brambleghast is definitely good I like that I can catch hurricanes and run physical or special attacking options. There is also a lot of sets not looked at with this mon imo. (It could maybe trap like SS vileplume tbh)
- Mabosstiff is still super cool, think people should use it more tbh just be careful of the first impression users.
- Chilling waters is good but not as amazing as I thought. It is a good option to keep in mind though for certain teams. (Be wary of bisharp)
Now for some new meta thoughts after the first day or so.
- Baxcalibur is really strong, but im hesitant to say broken just yet. Its speed tier and weakness to tanks like Orthworm, Slowbro, Avalugg, and even the Tauros' with intimidate can completely stop Baxcalibur from making a ton of progress. This along with high prio mons like slither wing, lokix, and bisharp also makes sure that things don't get too out of hand. I do however thing Baxcalibur is broken once it is behind a sub. Shed Tail Orthworm can be hit or miss, but I have had games where I pass into Baxcalibur and after 1 dd I get to 6-0.
- Lokix rivals Slither Wing really well in this tier, though both are extremely weak to Talonflame which is on every team now (probably because of these two!). I think it's a good new addition to the tier and seems a lot of fun to use (SD sets seem really cool in the right match up tbh).
- Maushold is actually a bit crazy but super fragile and hard to set up. Same issue with the bugs, Talonflame can really hinder it, but one Tidy Up boost with wide lens can OHKO tinkaton with population bomb and considering the only other real steel option rn is Orthworm.... this mon can go hard. It also gets beat up which can help with sash mons so it can be very hard to stop.
- Unless Torkoal drops, Charizard probably gonna keep dropping through the tiers. I don't see why I'd ever use it over Talonflame or Armarogue.
- Ditto is Ditto. Nice tool to have access to if needed on teams, but overall the same gimmick we have had for years.
- As stated in the Baxcalibur bullet point. Orthworm can be hit or miss HO wise, but when Shed Tail can get off damn does it do wonders. I have tried a few different sets and you can definitely get a Skarmory at home build with the same insane defenses and move pool, just not being neutral to fighting kinda sucks. I think coil over Iron Defense could be really cool too and it has some options to catch Pokemon off surprise, but your Body Press damage does rack up slower this way.
- Haven't touched TTar yet, but it seems to be a great offensive Sand setter compared to Hippowdon. It can take on Kilowattrel a lot easier as Hippo doesn't want to have to run stone edge or anything like that, and TTar hits extremely hard. I think Sand could get a decent amount of usage rn especially with tera around. Happy to finally have the best in UU, now lets throw it to UUBL to make all the fans pissed LOL.
Overall the meta feels good rn and the new additions are a lot of fun. HO is going to need to get hit somehow sooner or later, but now that we have control, I think we are set up to have a great generation on our hands. As a new face last year, it's been awesome seeing all the new faces discussing and putting in support for the tier, so I'm definitely motivated to crack open the secrets of the tier as we get deeper and deeper into beta. If you made it this far thanks for reading.
Using those pretty boys right now and I must say I love it.
Psychic Terrain and three abusers (two of them hit dark hard) go ham.
Worm, Tinkaton and Armarouge also build a nice defensive trio that can somewhat switch into most threats, though I feel like it might be weak to rain teams.
It's a surprise to one, Dragon-types are incredible in the current metagame. Baxcalibur is the brand new toy we got and I think it already cemented itself as one of the best (if not the best) wallbreaker in UU. It has many good sets which allows it to be pretty tough to scout. Choice Band is able to nuke almost anything (Orthworm is basically the only switch-in but it lacks recovery and doesn't like being chipped by Entry Hazards). I have personally used HDB + 4 attacks, DD and SD. HDB + 4 attacks is pretty versatile even tho the "lack" of power can be troublesome vs fat archetypes. I'm not a fan of DD and I think SD is much more threatening. Unlike DD, SD is able to run Ice Shard which is quite massive in the current metagame. Priorities are really great and Ice Shard can be really good in the late game. Unlike other Dragon-types setup sweepers, Baxcalibur has the insane benefit to be immune to burn thanks to Thermal Exchange and it's really huge since it basically doesn't care risking a burn on Flame Body Talonflame. It also has a far better bulk that the Dragon-types we already have but it's definitively slower which can be annoying sometimes since it can be revenge killed easily (if something already use Tera on your team or if you Tera type doesn't allow it to survive anything from its revenge killer). I also think Heavy-Duty Boots is a must have on that Pokémon and it's one of the reason I'm enjoying SD more than DD (which kinda have to run Icicle Crash if it uses HDB because Icicle Spear can be lackluster). One of the other great asset about Baxcalibur is the fact that it can run multiple great Tera Types. Fairy is in my opinion the best one as it offer a tremendously great defensive typing vs a lot of things but also a resistance to Fighting-type. Steel is, like every other Dragon-types setup sweepers we have, really good too. Last but not least Fire or Fighting are really deadly to lure Orthworm, trust me it's insane alongside SD. Orthworm has basically a 50% chance to be OHKOed by a +2 Fighting/Fire Tera Blast and SD Adamant Baxcalibur can strut about being able to straight up OHKO max/max Orthworm at +2 (without any prior damages or entry hazards on the field), literally insane. While it's true that those Tera Types sacrifice some defensive utility for better coverage, it's trully viable in my opinion. Tera Fight also allows Baxcalibur to mess over other Dragon-types which would like to revenge kill alongside Tera Steel since it can handle almost anything from them : Salamence Outrage does 58-69%, Adamant Haxorus Outrage 68-80% and even Draco Meteor from LO Hydreigon misses out the OHKO by doing 81-96.7%). While I think that it's maybe too soon to judge if this Pokémon is impossible to handle, it's definitively something we should keep on the radar.
Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dark / Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast / Flash Cannon
Hear me out : Hydreigon is as broken as Baxcalibur ! This Pokémon was absolutely nuts during Alpha and it's even better now that Azumarill is in OU. Nasty Plot sets are extremely threatening as Hydreigon is able to setup vs many foes. On the other hand, I found that Choice Scarf Hydreigon is the best Choice Scarf user in the tier. Its speed tier, sheer power, movepool and access to U-turn are so valuable at the moment. Even with strong First Impression users, I always feel like Hydreigon is able to shine, even with Tera Dark. I trully think this Pokémon is way too good for the tier and lacks answers. Fairy-types such as Scream Tail can't deal with Nasty Plot variants (even with Encore, they can lose in the long run). On the other hand, Tinkaton, while still being a good check to NP Hydreigon can really struggles vs variants with Flamethrower but also struggles more in the current metagame. Even things like Calm Mind Blissey can lose to Nasty Plot Hydreigon in the long run due to Dark Pulse flinches shenanigans and the nerf of Soft-Boiled. Overall a really nasty Pokémon to face and a pain in the ass in the builder to check.
While those two are not as oppressive as the two mentionned above, they still fill a really good place in the tier (especially Salamence). Unlike Baxcalibur, Salamence good special attack allows it to muscle threw Orthworm thanks to Flamethrower (which is a clean 2HKO on 252 HP / 0 SpD Orthworm, the set you should face 99% of the time) even with a Jolly nature ! This asset, alongside a much appealing speedtier and the ability Moxie, give it a niche over Baxcalibur. Its good special attack alongside Intimidate can also be used in order to use Salamence as an offensive pivot and answer to threats such as Slither Wing, Lokix or Lucario which is pretty valuable in the current meta since Talonflame tend to be pretty passive vs Baxcalibur. On the other hand, Haxorus packs a punch that would make Salamence blush with the ability to bypass Orthworm thanks to Mold Breaker, a great asset it has over Baxcalibur. It also trades a better speed for a far worst bulk which makes it much more hard to setup. I still think Choice Band can be a decent option on it thanks to First Impression and its great coverage options (Eartquake, Iron Head, Close Combat, Poison Jab etc..).
Chapter 2 : A new beginning
Lokix @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Leech Life / Axe Kick
- U-turn
- Sucker Punch
Don't bug it out, Lokix is in the place ! I was super hyped for this Pokémon when I first discovered it as it looks pretty damn great and its typing alongside its ability and movepool were looking great. On the paper, it's good but in practice, it is tougher to use than expected. Most of the time, it feels like a worst Slither Wing even tho it's faster than the latter. Its movepool is way more restricted and the lack of coverage is kinda tough. It also has "only" 102 BS in attack (compared to 135 for Slither Wing) which leads it to not hit that hard on neutral foes unlike its rival. Axe Kick is also a pretty meh Fighting-type move compared to a STAB Close Combat from Slither Wing and the worst thing in a game is to see your poor locust crashes on the ground next to its foe. I feel like Swords Dance set may be the better set here but even then it'll have a hard time keeping up..
Orthworm @ Leftovers
Ability: Earth Eater
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold / Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Iron Defense
- Metal Burst / Heavy Slam / Spikes
- Body Press
I'll be brief on that one, Orthworm is and should be only played as a Entry Hazards setter. I trully think Shed Tail on a Pokémon that slow and without any way to heal itself (outside of Sitrus Berry uh) is a false good idea or a beginner trap. But otherwise it's a decent Pokémon to use and one of the best way to check Baxcalibur (which is already a great niche for a Pokémon). I have played Metal Burst a lot but it wasn't that great so I think Heavy Slam or Spikes may be better. A fun Pokémon overall and a cool addition to the tier, Earth Eater is a blessing !
Maushold @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Normal / Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tidy Up / Protect
- U-turn / Protect
- Bite / Super Fang
- Population Bomb
This Pokémon is as good as it's bad, for real. Maushold is a really strange Pokémon because it can be really effective sometimes and sometimes completely useless. In a tier filled with priorities, I feel like Pokémon like this one falls between two stools. After playing it, I tend to think that its best set would be without Tidy Up. Even tho the move is good (I wouldn't say great because it removes your own Entry Hazards which is kinda counterproductive when you're playing a Pokémon like that), it's almost impossible to setup and even if you're manage to do it, you'll almost always be revenge killed by a strong priority. With that in mind, I feel like Protect is mandatory in order to not be burst by our First Impressions users. It's also a shame that you almost want 100% of the time the Wide Lens on this Pokémon because you really want those 10 hits on Population Bomb. Heavy-Duty Boots or Choice Band can be nice, but hitting 5 times instead of 10 will lead to nothing but death for the mouse family.
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Rock / Dark / Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
- Crunch
- Earthquake / Fire Punch
- Heavy Slam / Fire Punch
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream / Unnerve (if Water or Fairy Tera)
Tera Type: Steel / Water / Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Crunch
- Dragon Tail
Never two without three.. we have in UU the whole godzilla family ! Tyranitar is the new Pokémon I tested the least and I feel like it's in an iffy position. Choice Bands sets are crazy good on paper but in practice is way tougher. The tier is filled with natural resistances and we have tons of Pokémon which are able to revenge kill effectively. On the other hand, Stealth Rocks variants are definitively nice but tough to justify in a metagame with Ground-type Stealth Rock setter with Recover and Steel-types Stealth Rocks setter which are able to dent it pretty harshly. I feel like Stealth Rock + Dragon Tail is the best way to benefit Tyranitar alongside physical bulk. Sand Stream already allows it to be bulky as hell on the special side and we have so much physical threats. Tyranitar could be really great if Baxcalibur hadn't made Talonflame an iffy Pokémon to play and a meh Defogger.
Chapter 3 : Those who fall under the radar
I've not seen a lot of Gengar since the shifts but nothing has really changed for it. It's still a crazy strong Pokémon with multiple viable sets. I feel like Sub + WoW and overall most Sub variants are not the best atm due to the fact that Baxcalibur Icicle Spear kinda messes with it. However Choice locked Gengar are still insane. Both Choice Specs and Choice Scarf variants are nasty, the former being one of the best special breaker in the tier and the other being one of the best revenge killer / cleaner the tier has to offer. Nasty Plots variants are also pretty nasty not gonna lie. I feel like people underestimate this Pokémon, or maybe it's only because of the new toy syndrome.. I don't know but it's still pretty damn great !
Whether played with Choice Band or with Swords Dance, Lucario is still one of the best setup sweeper in the whole tier and one of the reason Tera Ghost are really common in the tier. Its speedtier is crazy good in a metagame with Baxcalibur as it's naturally faster than it and is able to resist Ice Shard. Still an insanely good Pokémon.
I don't even know how the fuck LycanDusk dropped to RU. This Pokémon is so fucking great it's actually insane. With enough Entry Hazards support, it can afford to skip Swords Dance for an AoA set which is so great. I've been messing with double priorities LycanDusk (Accelerock + Sucker Punch) alongisde Close Combat and a filler and man this Pokémon is lit ! Insane speed tier, greats priorities and movepool, dope ability and cracked coverage overall. This Pokémon is really great, please guys give it a chance you won't be disappointed.
i simply think orthworm is one of the better glue mons we have rn. it outright counters non-tera fire tera blast dd baxcalibur, which is seen as an insanely huge threat rn. sits on so many good mons including staraptor, gyara, some tsareena variants, ttar, mence, scream tail, bisharp, maushold (lol); i could literally go on tbh. it'll be super good for enabling entry hazard stacking playstyles imo with how many physical attacking threats it beats. with ho becoming more popular as bax has dropped and the playstyle seeming to have resurged / being used more, i think the mon just seems rly appealing.
ABSINTHE (Orthworm) @ Leftovers
Ability: Earth Eater
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Iron Defense
- Iron Head
- Body Press
this set takes the role of a bulky hazard setter that can also boost alongside setup sweepers and beat them reliably in a 1v1. move choices are interchangeable regarding the hazard u want; i just happened to be running rocks.
i simply think orthworm is one of the better glue mons we have rn. it outright counters non-tera fire tera blast dd baxcalibur, which is seen as an insanely huge threat rn. sits on so many good mons including staraptor, gyara, some tsareena variants, ttar, mence, scream tail, bisharp, maushold (lol); i could literally go on tbh. it'll be super good for enabling entry hazard stacking playstyles imo with how many physical attacking threats it beats. with ho becoming more popular as bax has dropped and the playstyle seeming to have resurged / being used more, i think the mon just seems rly appealing.
ABSINTHE (Orthworm) @ Leftovers
Ability: Earth Eater
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Iron Defense
- Iron Head
- Body Press
this set takes the role of a bulky hazard setter that can also boost alongside setup sweepers and beat them reliably in a 1v1. move choices are interchangeable regarding the hazard u want; i just happened to be running rocks.
Love the general idea of this set - thoughts on Heavy Slam and Coil over Iron Head and Iron Defense respectively? I thought Heavy Slam doing a lot more to Scream and Gengar might be good to be honest.
Love the general idea of this set - thoughts on Heavy Slam and Coil over Iron Head and Iron Defense respectively? I thought Heavy Slam doing a lot more to Scream and Gengar might be good to be honest.
Toxtricity @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Punk Rock
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overdrive
- Boomburst
- Volt Switch
- Sludge Bomb / Snarl / Sleep Talk (Doesn't really matter tbh)
Should be used way more for how few switchins Toxtricity has. The number of good electric immunities already feels low and if there isn't a normal resist/immunity on top of that then it can singlehandedly dismantle teams. I personally think Scarf is very good right now and can net you a lot of surprise KOs. The number of games I have led it and just clicked Tera into Boomburst and dropped something expecting to be faster. You'll want Timid to be faster than Noivern if anyone tries it out. Specs does the same thing but with the obvious benefit of just OHKOing or 2HKOing most defensive Pokemon, it just needs more pivot support. I have not tried Shift Gear so I can't really comment on that but it is probably good enough to consider. Tera is definitely a big buff to this mon and is rarely a downside defensively to worry about committing it. Would recommend using Toxtricity more.
This tier is pretty devoid of offensive Fairy- and Psychic-types on the special spectrum so I find Gardevoir hasn't really got much competition. I have found Choice Scarf to be decent right now as a revenge killer + great against rain teams thanks to Trace. I have not given Specs a try so no comment on whether that is any good. If people want some building ideas outside of just using it for Speed control then Magnezone is great to remove Orthworm and Tinkaton.
I think webs have some potential and I've had fun trying to make the playstyle work. I do think its major flaws lie with how good some of the flyers are in this tier, particularly Noivern. The web setters are pretty lackluster so you pretty much have to use Masquerain but it has been more effective than I was expecting. As a lead, it is quite mediocre in a few matchups so I rarely did lead it and mainly used it to set webs later on or used the sash defensively. Offensively it can be threatening too though after a QD which is neat. I don't think this playstyle is going to be anything special tbh but felt like talking about it.
Wasn't sure if I'd enjoy playing with the new mechanic but it isn't as dumb as I anticipated. There are some strong abusers like Lucario, which singlehandedly increases the number of mons wanting to splash Ghost as it's Tera typing or all the Normal Tera Boomburst mons. However, I think the dragons make the mechanic more dangerous than anything else in this tier. Dragon is well known for being a great typing offensively because it only has two resists/immunity but with Tera, you basically just bypass that with all of them defensively or by getting a third STAB to melt them. Hydreigon would be easier to handle if I knew a Fairy-type would actually beat it, but that isn't the case this gen. You can't run a Sylveon and expect to beat one behind a sub when it changes to Steel and you are suddenly set up fodder for example. The same thing applies to stuff like DD Mence defensively but also when it comes to revenge killing it with priority from Lycanroc-D, Weavile, or Lucario. I'm not calling for action on anything, just my opinion on how the mechanic seems to affect them more compared to other things imo. It will be interesting to see what the OU suspect ends up doing.
Other quick thoughts:
Lycan very cool and should be UU
Gengar is so free to click buttons with
Slitherwing is obnoxious to pivot around with how much dmg it does
How have people found Alomomola? I am running the standard trapper set and its been pretty solid as a defensive backbone by just shutting down most physically offensive mons and then passing massive wishes the rest of the game. I missed this guy in gen 8
what do ppl use to counter lokix? i feel like he can just come in and click banded first impression and kill pretty much anything. the only quad reists are talonflame and mimikyu?
what do ppl use to counter lokix? i feel like he can just come in and click banded first impression and kill pretty much anything. the only quad reists are talonflame and mimikyu?
If you're using an offensive team your best course of action is usually to just not let Lokix come in for free under any circumstances, since like with many other extremely dangerous pokemon Lokix struggles with having extremely lackluster defensive utility. For this reason many people like partnering it with pivots that also run switching moves like Slowking, so your main priority should be to either hinder Slowkings entry, punish Chilly Reception or punish the switching itself. The easiest way of doing this is to just get up and maintain rocks, since that severely cuts into how often your opponent can switch in Lokix.
As for specific pokemon which can counter/check Lokix there's a ton of examples to go over. So long as the pokemon isn't relying entirely on their resist to take U-Turns or First Impressions you should be fine, so naturally bulky non resists like Hippowdon, Alomomola, Fire Tauros, Physically Defensive Scream-Tail etc should work fine if you're using a team which can fit them (aka don't use Alomomola or Scream Tail unless you're using a fatter team). Talonflame is overall the best check since it punishes all moves with Flame Body and threatens it out, but slapping Rocky helmet on either Hippowdon or Alomomola works too. Orthworm and Salamence are two good checks despite their resistance being nulified by Tinted Lens solely because of their natural bulk (post Intimidate for Mence), especially since both also serve as massive threats if you don't click uturn (Mence has like 5000 moves it can click and Orthworm threatens Hazards or Shed Tail).
So TLDR it really depends on how willing you are to modify your team and/or what teamstyle you're using. Lokix isn't very good against Balance or fatter teams in general but can serve as quite the potent Offense Killer, so making sure that your BO Squad has a backbone that can deal with it or that your HO Squad can out offense it is the most important factor.
Are there any viable users of covert cloak? I find its use on Gholdengo to counter Salt Cure Garg really interesting, are there any worthwhile interactions in UU?
Are there any viable users of covert cloak? I find its use on Gholdengo to counter Salt Cure Garg really interesting, are there any worthwhile interactions in UU?
Heya UU, glad to see we are in Beta now :)
I wanna talk about a mon that i've been using to cope with the loss of Azumaril as a Belly Drum Sweeper on Screens teams and has been really fun to use on Ladder
This set is really strong at times, You get a Belly Drum off, Tera Steel and start Bullet Punching mons. Tera Steel also covers all of Hariyama's weaknesses so i find it really easy to get a Drum off. Hariyama will struggle with mons such as Quagsire and Talonflame but these mons aren't as prevalent as they used to be due to Orthworm and Baxcailbur sitting on them, so i've captialized on this by using Hariyama + these two mons.
As for your moves, Drain Punch gives you recovery after you killed something with it, keeping Hariyama healthy even after a Belly Drum. Knock Off OHKO's the Slowtwins which would otherwise murder you and also OHKO's Talonflame on a switch at +6, and Bullet Punch for priority, being able to OHKO mons such as Baxcailbur, Slither Wing and Fast Scream Tail Sets (Full Physdef has is about 43% chance of dying to Bullet Punch)
Try it out! Ill put a team i used it on here for all those interested below :)
Hello, my name is BigFatMantis , and I'd like to advocate for a ban on the Pokemon Orthworm , because it's move "Shed Tail" is uncompetitive and, even though it is not overpowered, Smogon in general has deemed that passing a sub to a pokemon is not competitive gameplay and is not allowed (otherwise Baton Pass + Sub would be allowed!). I think just the move Shed Tail should be banned since Orthworm is actually a decent addition to the UU metagame without it, but we aren't really allowed to ban moves in UU without going up the Smogon hierarchy/PR threads etc. I also wish OU would just ban Shed Tail and not Cyclizar so that the Shed Tail can trickle down to lower tiers and we don't have to worry about it, but it seems unlikely they'll do that because they don't find worm to be a problem (though once Cyclizar is banned there will be some bad gimmicky worm teams in OU).
I usually don't advocate for bans, but I do find the keeping of Shed Tail to just be very inconsistent with Smogon tiering decisions on Baton Pass. I understand it's "different" in the HP cost etc., but a free slow sub pass to something like Baxcalibur or Hydreigon is not really great gameplay imo.
Anywhodizzleberry, just wanted to give my thoughts on that here, bc I don't think OU will take action on Shed Tail independently, and I hope some people in charge here at least consider this for the future. If OU bans Cyclizar and UU bans Orthworm, maybe it'll actually help everyone just ban Shed Tail and let those two mons thrive in lower tiers without it.
Unless tiering policy changes to kinda force our hands in the direction of banning Shed Tail, I don't see any reason to ban a perfectly fine Pokemon that adds a lot to the tier for the sake of sending a message. Orthworm is not broken or overpowered or even anything close... Shed Tail sucks tbh it's not even worth using, it's the combo of that + Regenerator that could be construed as problematic if anything. If OU chooses to do something about Cyclizar that's their choice, but as of rn we don't have any intention to act on Orthworm.
We will likely have some votes soon-ish though, once we've fully set up council again. If anyone wants to see anything in particular on the voting slate, please do let us know, thanks!
Are there any viable users of covert cloak? I find its use on Gholdengo to counter Salt Cure Garg really interesting, are there any worthwhile interactions in UU?
Some Hatterenes ran Covert Cloak, to win the mirror match, by being immune to Nuzzle Paralysis, and Mystical Fire SpA drops. WIth Hatterene gone now, there really isn't anything in the tier that uses Covert Cloak.
How have people found Alomomola? I am running the standard trapper set and its been pretty solid as a defensive backbone by just shutting down most physically offensive mons and then passing massive wishes the rest of the game. I missed this guy in gen 8
I'm personally a big fan this gen of Alomomola. Been running a little niche set so far but it does some interesting things. Warning long winded speal ahead.
A more offensive Wish passer. My team has problems with Hydreigon not so much Baxcaliber. Some interesting damage calcs though:
0 Atk Tera Fairy Alomomola Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 336-400 (103.3 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 160+ SpD Tera Fairy Alomomola: 321-378 (60.1 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Tera Fairy Alomomola Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 164-194 (44.2 - 52.2%) -- 14.5% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Baxcalibur Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Tera Fairy Alomomola: 322-381 (60.2 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Few notes on this though: Usually when Hydreigon/Baxcalibur see Almomola they try to set up. Even without tera, Alomomola does around approx 29.6% without Fairy Tera on Bax, if they go for Glaive Rush at +1DD it's not enough to 1HKO which allows me to tera on them,. Although now that I think about it maybe Whirlpool trapping is the superior option to Liquidation. Mirror Coat is an option in case Hydreigon Tera's (Steel generally) before the encounter. Let alone catches ton of special attackers that don't 1HKO it by surprise, then I can switch after the KO and bring it back out again.
I could also just drop the SPDF EV's to a degree and try... Hmmm.. 252 HP/56 ATK/100DEF/100SPDF
I still take +2 Hydreigon +2 Dark Pulse to KO, and I get this:
56 Atk Tera Fairy Alomomola Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 176-210 (47.4 - 56.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO...
Also in regards to Noviern:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Noivern Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Tera Fairy Alomomola: 399-469 (74.7 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
56 Atk Tera Fairy Alomomola Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Normal Noivern: 100-118 (32.1 - 37.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Why I prefer to keep Mirror Coat as an option. It also ruins most other Special sweepers and attackers that don't land a SE hit.
Such as : 252 SpA Choice Specs Kilowattrel Thunder vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Tera Fairy Alomomola: 330-388 (61.7 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery ...
I've also had decent success so far with it in OU. As surprising as that may sound. Though Liquidation/Aqua Jet is definitely superior in OU for wearing down physical threats/wish stalling. Floatzel hates running into it, and Quaquaval not running SD/Bulk up dread it (Non-Bulk up dread Play Rough). Chi-Yu's hate Aqua Jet and it can even wear down Chien Pao. Some funny stuff.
56 Atk Alomomola Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 90-108 (35.8 - 43%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Alomomola: 382-451 (71.5 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
If only it had Taunt for utility.
Though I'm not sure how good it'll be after home releases.
Am I the only one who really wants rain gone? New toys are cool but it feels like there's little incentive to run cool stuff when floatzel or barraskewda, pelipper, and Kilowattrel steamroll every team I've got.
Baxcalibur is really strong, but im hesitant to say broken just yet. Its speed tier and weakness to tanks like Orthworm, Slowbro, Avalugg, and even the Tauros' with intimidate can completely stop Baxcalibur from making a ton of progress. This along with high prio mons like slither wing, lokix, and bisharp also makes sure that things don't get too out of hand. I do however thing Baxcalibur is broken once it is behind a sub. Shed Tail Orthworm can be hit or miss, but I have had games where I pass into Baxcalibur and after 1 dd I get to 6-0.
Lokix rivals Slither Wing really well in this tier, though both are extremely weak to Talonflame which is on every team now (probably because of these two!). I think it's a good new addition to the tier and seems a lot of fun to use (SD sets seem really cool in the right match up tbh).
Maushold is actually a bit crazy but super fragile and hard to set up. Same issue with the bugs, Talonflame can really hinder it, but one Tidy Up boost with wide lens can OHKO tinkaton with population bomb and considering the only other real steel option rn is Orthworm.... this mon can go hard. It also gets beat up which can help with sash mons so it can be very hard to stop.
Unless Torkoal drops, Charizard probably gonna keep dropping through the tiers. I don't see why I'd ever use it over Talonflame or Armarogue.
Ditto is Ditto. Nice tool to have access to if needed on teams, but overall the same gimmick we have had for years.
As stated in the Baxcalibur bullet point. Orthworm can be hit or miss HO wise, but when Shed Tail can get off damn does it do wonders. I have tried a few different sets and you can definitely get a Skarmory at home build with the same insane defenses and move pool, just not being neutral to fighting kinda sucks. I think coil over Iron Defense could be really cool too and it has some options to catch Pokemon off surprise, but your Body Press damage does rack up slower this way.
Haven't touched TTar yet, but it seems to be a great offensive Sand setter compared to Hippowdon. It can take on Kilowattrel a lot easier as Hippo doesn't want to have to run stone edge or anything like that, and TTar hits extremely hard. I think Sand could get a decent amount of usage rn especially with tera around. Happy to finally have the best in UU, now lets throw it to UUBL to make all the fans pissed LOL.
, and I'd like to advocate for a ban on the Pokemon Orthworm 
