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np: UU - A New Beginning

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I guess it's time for LonelyNess to weigh in a little bit.

One thing I can say is that weather is VERY effective in this new tier. I for one have been using a Sunny Day team with Choice Specs Typhlosion as its main sweeper, and if you're not running a Slowking or Milotic with heavy SpD investment, you're losing a Pokemon to Sun boosted Fire Blast (or Eruption if I'm >80%). And don't underestimate that guy's speed. Base 100 seems to be the standard speed in this metagame for a Speedy Sweeper as a lot of the top threats hit that number.

Hail obviously has its pros, and its cons... for one being kind of Gallede weak is a bad thing, but with Hail and Life Orb taking its toll, unless Gallede comes out at the end of a battle, it's likely that it won't be able to sweep your entire team. Also, I'd just like to ask every to stop using CM Spiritomb to counter Gallede... it doesn't work and you're just going to kill your Spiritomb because you fail to OHKO with Dark Pulse and you are 2HKOd by Ice Punch or Night Slash. Other than the obvious Fighting weak, not a lot of things are getting passed a well built hail team.

Rain has some pretty nice toys to work with too. Ludiocolo being the biggest threat boasting incredible speed and coverage after Rain. With a Life Orb and Grass Knot / Surf / Ice Beam not a lot can hope to take it on with the exception of Chansey.

Countering weather seems to be the number one priority this game.

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Some stand alone sweepers that I feel are very potent threats but aren't getting a lot of love include Rock Polish Torterra. This guy rips holes into the Slowbro / Chansey / Registeel / Spiritomb defensive combo. And with a Rock Polish under its belt it hits 422 Spe which outpaces anything not Scarfed. It also makes probably the best switch in to Registeel in the entire game, taking at most 56% from Ice Punch. His defenses, even unboosted, are not to be taken lightly.

Staraptor is incredibly useful. The CB Variety more importantly seems to be the most difficult to stop. 2HKOing everything in UU is really good, and once again it comes with that nice Base 100 Spe allowing it to outpace a lot of the threats.

Some things that I think were pretty overhyped include Ursaring and Gallede. Sure, they hit pretty hard, and if your entire team is outsped by them you're probably going to lose, but the only thing you need to do is pack something faster and you're golden. Quick Feet Ursaring doesn't hit hard enough and should really not be used over its Guts brethren, especially since even with a Jolly nature, it doesn't hit that great of speeds.

The only thing that I can say is NOT overhyped is Raikou. This thing is just a bit ridiculous. Base 115 Speed means you can't just switch in on its CM / Substitute and hope to outspeed it, and with a boosting move plus Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Ice you can hit pretty much anything in the tier ridiculously hard. I find myself having to sacrifice a Pokemon just to bring it down nearly every battle. Registeel helps a lot, but if they're running the rarer Life Orb 252 SpA set then you fail to take two +1 Thunderbolts, and Registeel will never OHKO a Raikou with Earthquake. At the moment, this and weather seem to be the only things "too much" for the tier.

It's very fast paced, and it's very sweeper oriented, not like old UU's stallish nature at all. I'm still trying to make a potent stall team, but with things hitting so hard, and the ratio of competant walls to sweepers, i'm finding the task a bit daunting.
 
Glaceon @Leftovers
Nature:Calm
Ability:Snow Cloak
Ev's:252HP/216SpD/40Def
-Wish
-Protect
-Roar
-Ice Beam

my own counter to Raikou, CM mismagius, soaking up random hits like bulky waters, and Phazing enemies that can't touch it. This Glaceon can single-handedly destroy teams (especially hail) after i set up TS and SR. No one expects glaceon to have roar and it can get rid of those Raikou's to give you enough time to set up TS. I've actually had it live a Blaziken's Fire Blast, that's how bulky it is. Espeon's Life orb Hidden Power fighting does less then 55% unboosted, atleast that's how it was on shoddy.

This thing completely walled me yesterday and I lost 6-0 to it because I couldn't bring it down. It's an absolute beast!
 
Regarding Raikou:

The best Hidden Power on a 2 attack set is undoubtedly HP-Fire. Hitting both Grasses and Steelix is important, and as Steelix and Torterra are the only common Grounds, HP-Fire covers them both. So essentially, you hit everything common that resists/is immune to Thunderbolt except for other Raikou for super-effective damage. The only pokemon that resist both moves are Gastrodon, Whiscash, Quagsire, Vibrava, and Rhydon, none of which seem to be common.
 
Your very right on your analysis Lonleyness. Weather teams can be deadly, but arent actually very common. Ive have seen abomasnow in a few non-hail teams, though.
And Raikou is definitely a beast. Only possible counter is Chansey, and she can end up detup fodder. Shaymin is also a very threatning beast
 
Have I mentioned how Raikou is completely broken? 115 speed is just too much, it forces you to use scarfers just to hit it before it subs/fries you with t-bolt. I use agility Blaziken though, and it survives one thunderbolt, then deals heavy damage through Earthquake often KOing it.
 
Regarding Raikou:

The best Hidden Power on a 2 attack set is undoubtedly HP-Fire. Hitting both Grasses and Steelix is important, and as Steelix and Torterra are the only common Grounds, HP-Fire covers them both. So essentially, you hit everything common that resists/is immune to Thunderbolt except for other Raikou for super-effective damage. The only pokemon that resist both moves are Gastrodon, Whiscash, Quagsire, Vibrava, and Rhydon, none of which seem to be common.
Say "hi" to Lanturn for me.
 
I'm going to have to agree with the general disposition that yes, Raikou is a bit much. There are "counters" but nothing can outspeed and Taunt while reliably doing damage to it. Electrode and Crobat outspeed and Taunt, but they don't do enough damage back. I'm really wishing for Aerodactyl right now, since I think that could balance it out. Unfortunatly, it's OU =(.
 
I adapted my OU team for the new UU environment... to lackluster results. It was difficult to find rain dancers that packed all the support moves I had become accustomed to using on OU dancers. One thing I did find was that ludicolo still makes a terrific sweeper in UU. I use the same kabutops set but unfortunately people like to use things like toxicroak in UU which I never saw in OU. At least my empoleon concerns are moot. I believe a rain teams biggest problem in UU is the lack of solid rain dancers that can support AND take hits from the likes of raikou and gallade.
Not true at all. I honestly was somewhat unfamiliar with UU before the test, and I still found great support for Rain Dance. For 1, Electrode is a great Rain Dance lead, outspeeding all common UUs and setting up Rain Dance easily. Another (possibly overlooked) Rain Dancer is Rotom, which can set up Rain Dance extremely well by viture of resistances. Rotom is also a good counter to the Fighters in the teir. Clefable is also a strong choice thanks to its general bulkiness and the ability to use many Support Moves effectively. Raikou himself set up Rain Dance and use it to use Thunder over Thunderbolt. Registeel and Articuno aren't bad choices either. Just pack a Poison to get rid of Toxic Spikes (Toxicroak or Qwifish work well) and you will find that Rain Dance can not only be pretty easy to play, it is also etremely fun and deadly offensive team in UU currently.
 
Claydol is also an amazing choice to setup Rain Dance, as it can SR and then Explode, not to mention it provides an electric immunity (I'm looking at you Raikou) which is extremely handy in a team potentialy full of water types.

speaking of which, this thing is deadly. It outspeeds almost all sweepers and has Sub to protect itself from potential revenge killing and smart switching. I've played a while with an non-rain dance offensive team before and you almost can't bet it without sacrificing. I'll also have to agree with the others there... but I guess Raikou was already expected to be like that heh.
 
Calm Mind Raikou counters: Special defensive Drapion. It can lay Tspikes to fuck it up, Taunt it, and Earthquake it to pieces. Gastrodon is also obvious with Roar.
 
Wait till people start using Shuca Berry on Raikou... THEN it will be the Garchomp of UU.
PS.iF ANYONE USES THIS STRATEGY, YOU KNOW WHO STARTED IT.

EDIT: Ok, if the mods want us to abuse suspects to prove they are broken, i AM GOING TO ABUSE SHUCA BERRY RAIKOU.
 
Hariyama can WW away Raikou if you don't let him get too many CMs off. Claydol laughs at Raikou running HP fire, but needs to run earthquake over the more popular earth power. Drap can work fine as long as you don't try to do too much before phazing him.
 
I'm curious to see if Muk can counter Raikou. Max Hp and Special Defense and access to Haze could potentially end a Raikou sweep. So a set like...

Muk@ Chesto Berry
252Hp 176 SpD 80 Atk
Careful

Haze
Poison Jab
Brick Break
Rest
 
Yeah, the best counter to Raikou is a bulky phazer. I use SpD Drapion with EQ, but Raikou still usually takes off a big chunk of HP(even more if it has HPGround, which ive seen used). Also, i would cry if people started using Shucca Raikou as another counter is a scarfed EQer...
 
i tried muk today, didn't really work too well...couldn't do enough to it to stop it in its tracks.

it'll be awhile before i get back on due to a computer problem, so i'm limited to the few hours i got in last night and today. i'm not that great anyway, but i'll probably post my thoughts a little later
 
What does it make a difference on anyway? Steelix? Nope. Registeel? Was beaten with Life Orb anyway. Torterra? Not really unless you have HP Ice and it's packing 252 SpD or something dumb like that.
 
Calm Mind Raikou counters: Special defensive Drapion. It can lay Tspikes to fuck it up, Taunt it, and Earthquake it to pieces. Gastrodon is also obvious with Roar.

Timid Raikou with 0 sp atk evs (252 hp defensive rakou) hits your Drapion for 58.43% - 68.60% after 2 CMs, which it will get while you switch in and try to taunt it. Drapions EQ only does 40.36% - 47.40%.

Offensive +2 Raikou hits for 93.60% - 110.17% while Drapion can't even manage a OHKO with Earthquake.

And Gastrodon doesn't even fucking learn Roar!

I won the two matches I played with Shuca Raikou. NOBODY expects shuca berry... yet.

Could you save your battle logs that you use shuca raikou in and e-mail them to me? I'm already using CM entei and I don't want to go through the hassle of making a new team just yet. I too am seeing this as a potential UU Yachechomp, with it's only obvious counters being toxic spikes and chansey.
 
If you want a good CM Raikou counter, use Camerupt. Takes squat from either hidden power, and even with no attack EV's it does a ton to Raikou with Earthquake.

EDIT:

Camerupt vs. Offensive Raikou
236 Atk vs 186 Def & 321 HP (100 Base Power): 272 - 324 (84.74% - 100.93%)

+1 Offensive Raikou vs. 252/252 Camerupt
493 Atk vs 249 Def & 344 HP (80 Base Power): 148 - 175 (43.02% - 50.87%)
 
@TVBoyCanti: fine, I'll send you some logs.

@Winto: I have many ways of dealing with Camerupt.
 
That doesn't make it any less of a Raikou counter though.

Having played about 20 or so games before the ladder was officially opened (Unrated BL), I saw no weather teams. Registeel was on every team, as was milotic and Spiritomb. I've had some fun with End/Salac Pinsir with Golduck on the team to take care of weather, Hyper Cutter is really an underrated ability, especially with Staraptor being a pretty common switch in (don't ask why - Pinsir has a nasty Stone edge o.o)
 
I don't get the Raikou hype at all. It has many good counters due to its very limited attacking movepool, and one Hidden Power is nowhere near enough to cover everything. Plus Chansey completely shits on it barring the Cro set, which requires Ground lure support to work effectively.

Other potential counters include: Abomasnow, Steelix, Regice, Registeel, Gastrodon, Camerupt, Torterra, Lanturn, Cradily, Rhydon, Claydol, Shaymin, Nidoqueen, Piloswine, Ampharos, Shelgon and various other Grass and Ground Pokemon. Now Raikou has three realistic options for a Hidden Power; Ice, Grass or Fire. Each one allows it to beat some of the listed Pokemon, but also leaves it open to the majority. Also, some of them beat it regardless of the Hidden Power, like Regice, Registeel, Ampharos and Camerupt (watch out for HP Water lol).

It is not hard to adapt your team to account for Raikou; there are a number of UU Pokemon that are much more difficult to counter. As I've said before, 'it beats my current team' is NOT a valid argument for suspect status. If you're Raikou weak, do something about it!
 
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