Tbh, if there's one Poke that I think doesn't deserve to be in the new UU, it's Shaymin. That thing is just retarded with Air Slash/Earth Power/Seed Flare/Rest + Natural Cure. You can't status it, you can't damage it unless you at least 2KO it, it has an easy time coming in and it'll do massive loads of damage before switching out again, every time. Does anyone know anything that has not only a chance of withstanding its damage but also be able to damage it? I know that it's got a 4x weakness to Ice, but hitting it with an Ice move is easier said than done and it's numbingly obvious what Pokes will carry it as well. Also, good luck outspeeding it. And don't ask me to use Regice which takes 25% damage just from switching in with SR up...
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np: UU - A New Beginning
- Thread starter RBG
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Shaymin is mono-grass, you're thinking of Shaymin-S.
Sadly, not really =(. Personally I've been using Nasty Plot Slowking or Curse Slowking and it has been working pretty well. Everyone is more concerned about Slowbro and the counters to Slowbro don't work nearly as well against Slowking so it fits very nice. Pair it with an excellent Grass resist for Shaymin and something to handle Raikou (Special Defensive Registeel can deal with both reasonably well) and you have an excellent core.
Shouldn't you be worried about Dewgong though X-Act
UM... Choice Band Staraptor? Brave Bird hits like a monster truck, and even U-Turn dents it quite a bit. Brave Bird is an easy 2HKO. Meanwhile, it's as fast as Shaymin, and resists Seed Flare, and is immune to Earth Power. The SR weakness hurts though.
I've also been using Nasty Plot Slowking, to decent effect.
As for Shaymin, I'm not really having much of a problem with it, despite all the hype it seems to be getting. Really, something that's interesting is that when Shaymin-S was being tested, several potential counters from the old BL and UU were brought up, which work just as well with Shaymin, since it lacks Serene Grace, and has less Speed and Special Attack. Regice works pretty well at stopping it, espeically on RestTalk sets. Bulky Crobat sets with Brave Bird/Taunt/Roost/Filler also works fairly well, 4x resisting Seed Flare, having an immunity to Earth Power, and being flinch-proof (although it outspeeds anyway). Shaymin may be bulkier than Skymin, but it really misses that extra Special Attack, Speed, and Serene Grace, which makes it easier to deal with, especially when a lot of the same answers to it are there.
As for Shaymin, I'm not really having much of a problem with it, despite all the hype it seems to be getting. Really, something that's interesting is that when Shaymin-S was being tested, several potential counters from the old BL and UU were brought up, which work just as well with Shaymin, since it lacks Serene Grace, and has less Speed and Special Attack. Regice works pretty well at stopping it, espeically on RestTalk sets. Bulky Crobat sets with Brave Bird/Taunt/Roost/Filler also works fairly well, 4x resisting Seed Flare, having an immunity to Earth Power, and being flinch-proof (although it outspeeds anyway). Shaymin may be bulkier than Skymin, but it really misses that extra Special Attack, Speed, and Serene Grace, which makes it easier to deal with, especially when a lot of the same answers to it are there.
I haven't really noticed a Shaymin problem, but I run a Sunny Day team with ScarfPhlosion and Staraptor, so it hasn't been much of an issue.
One poke I've been pleasantly surprised with is Sandslash. Max HP and Def. Slash takes hits like a champ, provides a useful Rock and Electric resist, spins and sets up SR, all the while threatening with STABed Earthquakes. Paired with a bulky Exeggutor for the Grass and Water attacks, and a CM Entei to block Ice pokes and it makes for a solid defensive core (though threatened by CBRaptor, surprise, surprise)
One poke I've been pleasantly surprised with is Sandslash. Max HP and Def. Slash takes hits like a champ, provides a useful Rock and Electric resist, spins and sets up SR, all the while threatening with STABed Earthquakes. Paired with a bulky Exeggutor for the Grass and Water attacks, and a CM Entei to block Ice pokes and it makes for a solid defensive core (though threatened by CBRaptor, surprise, surprise)
In my teams I have at least 2 check for Shaymin and if you have at least two heavy grass resists, you're going to be fine. Roserade may be a solid check, threatening Shaymin with Specs/Life Orb Sludge Bomb or just more defensive set. Roserade has good enough special defence to handle 1-2 strong hits, if you EVs it right.
The most annoying pokemon to fight for me is... SpecsTyphlosion in Sunny Day teams. Without Flash Fire pokemon or really specially bulky Milotic/Slowking you're in trouble, especially in more defensive teams.
Shaymin's movesets are not that scary. It's that incredible bulky it has.
Which makes it hard to take down, while it hits you back. To me, Shaymin is alright in UU due to it's pathetic move pool. It's very predictable.
Which makes it hard to take down, while it hits you back. To me, Shaymin is alright in UU due to it's pathetic move pool. It's very predictable.
Amen to that, I love Sandslash and use it on almost every team that doesn't pack Claydol for me. I tried CBSlash and its awesome to see how people just switch in their Spiritomb or something that wants to set up (Such as Gallade), only to recieve a sickenly powerful Earthquake to the face.
what are the common raikou and shaymin movesets? including evs?
Which Pokemon would be a better lead for setting up Sunny Day in UU, Mesprit or Uxie? (This is for Wi-fi)
Mesprit/ Uxie @ Heat Rock
~Sunny Day
~Stealth Rock
~U-turn
~Ice Beam/ Yawn
Mesprit has access to Ice Beam which would help against Altaria (nothing on my team can really take it that well) whereas Uxie has greater defenses, higher speed and access to Yawn.
Mesprit/ Uxie @ Heat Rock
~Sunny Day
~Stealth Rock
~U-turn
~Ice Beam/ Yawn
Mesprit has access to Ice Beam which would help against Altaria (nothing on my team can really take it that well) whereas Uxie has greater defenses, higher speed and access to Yawn.
I've been having massive success with a Sunny Day team all day today. I also lead with Crobat. I use Sunny Day / Taunt / Roost / Brave Bird @ Heat Rock. I wish I could fit on U-Turn but I like the extra power of Brave Bird more and being able to OHKO most Abomasnow is too tempting. He is an incredibly reliable setter-upper of sunny day and is usually able to do it several times per match, because he's easy to get in with his awesome resistances and he sticks around a while with roost. The only common leads I've been having trouble with are Electrode and Frosslass, who I generally have to switch out of. Speed tying with opposing lead Crobat is also annoying.
My other Sunny Day support pokemon is Regirock. He may seem a bit unorthodox but he too has been incredibly reliable. People love switching their Bulky Waters into him, but if they switch in on the Sunny Day they usually aren't managing to scratch 20%, which gives me an easy switch in for one of my Grass types. He also provides a nice counter to most opposing fire types trying to take advantage of your Sunny Day. Lastly he can set up rocks and even Explode when he's done.
The real monster behind Sunny Day teams is Exeggutor. He is really close to unstoppable. I use Solar Beam / Psychic / HP Fire / Sleep Powder @ Life Orb. The only thing that can really slow him down is Chancey. Everything else you either OHKO or put to sleep then 2HKO. Really Exeggutor has solo swept so many teams for me it's not even funny, Solar Beam OHKOs most neutral non-defensive targets and usually OHKOs everything weak to it, even things like Milotic.
Next best has been Scarf Typhlosion. If you can manage to keep rocks off your side of the field Sunny Day boosted Eruption is stupidly powerful, 2HKOing most Bulky Waters. He doesn't have as much straight up sweep potential as Exeggutor due to his lack of Sleep Powder but he makes up for it in pure ridiculous power.
I've had marginal success with a Swords Dance Shiftry but ultimately he didnt hit hard enough fast enough, so in the end I settled on a Chancey lure Shiftry meant to explode on things that might give my team trouble. I also tried a Nasty Plot Focus Sash Houndoom which also was decent but a bit underwhelming. I'm not really sure what else I should try in this slot... most other Sun sweepers look a bit mediocre to be honest.
I really did not expect Sunny Day to be as good as it is. To be honest I've had much more success with it than with Rain teams, probably because most Rain sweepers have a tough time getting past bulky waters. The great thing about Exeggutor is that he can put all of his counters to sleep, meaning he can afford to 2HKO walls, and Typhlosion has the brute force that e can hammer through even the toughest walls.
My other Sunny Day support pokemon is Regirock. He may seem a bit unorthodox but he too has been incredibly reliable. People love switching their Bulky Waters into him, but if they switch in on the Sunny Day they usually aren't managing to scratch 20%, which gives me an easy switch in for one of my Grass types. He also provides a nice counter to most opposing fire types trying to take advantage of your Sunny Day. Lastly he can set up rocks and even Explode when he's done.
The real monster behind Sunny Day teams is Exeggutor. He is really close to unstoppable. I use Solar Beam / Psychic / HP Fire / Sleep Powder @ Life Orb. The only thing that can really slow him down is Chancey. Everything else you either OHKO or put to sleep then 2HKO. Really Exeggutor has solo swept so many teams for me it's not even funny, Solar Beam OHKOs most neutral non-defensive targets and usually OHKOs everything weak to it, even things like Milotic.
Next best has been Scarf Typhlosion. If you can manage to keep rocks off your side of the field Sunny Day boosted Eruption is stupidly powerful, 2HKOing most Bulky Waters. He doesn't have as much straight up sweep potential as Exeggutor due to his lack of Sleep Powder but he makes up for it in pure ridiculous power.
I've had marginal success with a Swords Dance Shiftry but ultimately he didnt hit hard enough fast enough, so in the end I settled on a Chancey lure Shiftry meant to explode on things that might give my team trouble. I also tried a Nasty Plot Focus Sash Houndoom which also was decent but a bit underwhelming. I'm not really sure what else I should try in this slot... most other Sun sweepers look a bit mediocre to be honest.
I really did not expect Sunny Day to be as good as it is. To be honest I've had much more success with it than with Rain teams, probably because most Rain sweepers have a tough time getting past bulky waters. The great thing about Exeggutor is that he can put all of his counters to sleep, meaning he can afford to 2HKO walls, and Typhlosion has the brute force that e can hammer through even the toughest walls.
How do you deal with opposing fire types with Flash Fire?
Houndoom nails Exeggutor, (Barring a resisted Solar Beam), and can come in on Eruption Typhlosion and Nasty Plot or Fire Blast on your switch out...
I am just curious, because I am considering a Sunny Team that can counter other teams. Nasty Plot, Fire Blast, Solar Beam, Dark Pulse Houndoom seems pretty great.
Slowking: Life Orb
4 HP, 252 Special Attack, 252 Special Defense
Modest
Trick Room
Nasty Plot
Hydro Pump
Fire Blast
Works great, as people forget it learns fire moves (I choose Fire Blast because it is stronger than Ice Beam for Grass types), which allows it to surprise Bug, and Steel types like Pinsir/Venemoth that think they can stay in on the switch-into Trick Room. Also works nicely against the fire types of Sunny Day teams that don't use Solar Beam (like Ninetails). And the speed Advantage is lost when they switch to their Chlorophyllers during Trick Room, only to be roasted by a well-timed Fire Blast boosted by Sunny Day.
Houndoom nails Exeggutor, (Barring a resisted Solar Beam), and can come in on Eruption Typhlosion and Nasty Plot or Fire Blast on your switch out...
I am just curious, because I am considering a Sunny Team that can counter other teams. Nasty Plot, Fire Blast, Solar Beam, Dark Pulse Houndoom seems pretty great.
Slowking: Life Orb
4 HP, 252 Special Attack, 252 Special Defense
Modest
Trick Room
Nasty Plot
Hydro Pump
Fire Blast
Works great, as people forget it learns fire moves (I choose Fire Blast because it is stronger than Ice Beam for Grass types), which allows it to surprise Bug, and Steel types like Pinsir/Venemoth that think they can stay in on the switch-into Trick Room. Also works nicely against the fire types of Sunny Day teams that don't use Solar Beam (like Ninetails). And the speed Advantage is lost when they switch to their Chlorophyllers during Trick Room, only to be roasted by a well-timed Fire Blast boosted by Sunny Day.
Houndoom has been the bane of my team. Really it is lucky for me that he isn't more common, i've been trying to find ways around him but he really messes up my team badly no matter what i do. Generally I just try to wear him down with Rocks and hit him with whatever i happen to have out so that hopefully he can't come back in. If he does manage to get in on a Typhlosion fire move something on my team usually has to die. If he comes in on Exeggutor i immediately put him to sleep no questions asked. My Shiftry has Brick Break. Crobat does ~60% with Brave Bird. He hits a stalemate against my Houndoom with the same moveset. Regirock can take a non NPed Solar Beam and I believe one NPed Dark Pulse since I'm running max Sp Def.
But yes, Houndoom has been probably my teams biggest weakness aside from rain teams (duh) and I generally just rely on his subpar usage to beat him lol.
But yes, Houndoom has been probably my teams biggest weakness aside from rain teams (duh) and I generally just rely on his subpar usage to beat him lol.
You could try Roserade. Lack of a Chlorophyll boost is unfortunate, but STAB Solarbeam+Sun-Boosted Weather Ball is very nice, and 90 base speed isn't that bad. STAB Sludge Bomb hits Houndoom plenty hard, although unfortunately it outspeeds you. Stun spore and Substitute can help with predicting Houndoom coming in, or you can run 4 attacks with Extrasensory or Shadow Ball. Rest and Synthesis are both good recovery options here. You can also set up Spikes/Tspikes if you wish.
Are you seriously suggesting Roserade as a solution to his Houndoom problem?
Anyway, Nasty Plot Houndoom can be difficult to counter directly. Usually Milotic is your best bet if you invest a bit in special defense.
No, I was just suggesting he try using Roserade. Sunny Day teams will always have Houndoom problems. A good fighting type could help with Houndoom. Hariyama can Mach Punch it and resists Fire and Dark, while Hitmontop has Tech Mach Punch as well as 110 base sdef. Blaziken resists Dark Pulse, Fire Blast, and Solarbeam and can hit it with Vacuum Wave. You'll still have issues if it comes in on Scarflosion's Eruption, but that's the risk of using Scarflosion. Alternatively, you could use a Flash Firer like Arcanine or Rapidash. Unfortunately, most Flash Fire users don't have a good SE attack to use against Houndoom (the best is Rapidash's Double Kick), but it still won't like taking powerful physical hits.
I have had no real problems with Nasty Plot Houndoom (although I do feel people should be using it more, it is underrated.) I think what it is for me is that it can be easily revenge killed, if you can swtich in on a Nasty Plot, or sacrifice a Pokemon to it (if nessecary) then it will be hurt badly by things like Azumarill's Aqua Jet, Ambipom's Fake Out etc... It also has a pretty sub par Speed stat, at base 95. Sure it's not slow, but if it's going for an out and out sweep it will need support, because the majority of the Pokemon that are faster than it can also KO it. I count 33 Underused Pokemon that are faster than it, if you are running any of those base 100 Pokemon (Shaymin, Typhlosion, Staraptor...) then you are ensured againt it =D
Fun Fact: Luvdisc has a greater base Speed than Houndoom =/
Fun Fact: Luvdisc has a greater base Speed than Houndoom =/
You could feign Specs or Scarf on Typhlosion by using Expert Belt or Wise Glasses or even Flame Plate or something, and slap Focus Punch on it. Even with a negative nature and no EVs, Focus Punch backed with Expert Belt is a sure OHKO on Houndoom and does over 50% to 252/252 Bold Chansey. Houndoom's LO Dark Pulse is just a 2HK0 on 0/0 Typhlosion. Focus Blast is also a sure OHKO on Houndoom, but won't do much to Chansey.
Don't forget about the potential of Mixmortar, which hits stupidly hard even without the sun, and can pack Cross Chop, Focus Punch, Focus Blast, or Mach Punch (all OHKO Houndoom but Mach Punch, which 2hkos) for Houndoom and Chansey, as well as Thunderbolt for Bulky Waters.
Just a thought.
Don't forget about the potential of Mixmortar, which hits stupidly hard even without the sun, and can pack Cross Chop, Focus Punch, Focus Blast, or Mach Punch (all OHKO Houndoom but Mach Punch, which 2hkos) for Houndoom and Chansey, as well as Thunderbolt for Bulky Waters.
Just a thought.
Actually, there are 37 faster Pokémon than Houndoom (Sneasel, Electabuzz, Kadabra, Voltorb are speedier NFEs) and 53 Pokémon (including NFEs) are as fast or faster.
I've found Sub-Flail Feraligatr to be a very good sweeper, either late-game r before. I prefer the DD-Liechi set to the SD-Salac version, but both own. Scarf-Glaceon is also ridiculous, as it outspeeds all UUs except Crobat and Electrode. Moltres is also very good as a wall.
I have had absolutely no problems with Shaymin as long as I can keep Crobat alive. It resists seed flare, is immune to earth power, and cant flinch from air slash even if it's paralyzed. It also has stab Brave Bird and U-Turn to hit with, can taunt sub-seeders, and has roost for recovery. Honestly, I think Crobat and Ambipom, as leads, outclass everything else I've seen in new UU so far.
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