np: UU - A New Beginning

[M BLADE]

A simple mispredict with Aggron as leaves its head behind its ass. Aggron does not have the typing to be good in the current UU, simply because there are an excess of fighters and fighting moves in the metagame. Earthquake really isn't even being used anymore besides some walls like Regirock and Steelix. But even simple attacks from those bad boys deal massive amounts of damage to Aggron even with their relatively low base attack.

Sorry for being late to reply lol

Aggron is commonly used with substitute.Aggron comes in on a lot of pokes,get a free sub,and cripple/attack away.110 attack is good,180 defense means he's going to wall a nice number of pokes,and put a good Stone Edge or Thunder Wave on the opponent

Believe me,many things are walled by him.Think about a mix of support and power.And the movepool is giant,he can do nearly everything

 

[LonelyNess]

I find Aggron to be a worse version of Rhydon to be perfectly honest. They both sport the excellent resistances to Flying and Normal (albeit Aggron does have 4X instead of 2X) but with Rhydon you have the benefit of STAB Earthquake, as well as only being 2HKOd by Close Combat from Staraptor. Aggron on the other hand, with his 4X weakness rather than 2X weakness to Fighting makes him a far less reliable counter to Staraptor.

That and Aggron has less raw attack power than Rhydon, meaning that if it wants to do sufficient damage in a tier where the relative bulk has greatly risen from old UU, it has to pump up its attack more than Rhydon does in order to do adecquate damage.

 

[Heysup]

@ HeYsUp: In theory, I suppose Espeon would make a fine choice as far as replacing Raikou, as well as being a bit more utilitarian in its uses, with Baton Pass allowing you to pass on your stat boosts to another sweeper (such as your Blaziken), and also allowing it to safely escape from Pursuit users.


As far as Gallade, I'm not really sure. Medicham may replace any odd Choice sets out there, but I'm not sure who could replace the seemingly more popular SD set.

In theory yes. People wont realize the value of an Electric stab for a while. The one thing i miss, is in fact an Electric attack in that slot(im even leaning towards Thunderbolt/Shadowball(or HP ice) Missy).

Bulk up may work over SD....

I'm not sure if anyone has brought anything about Rampardos up before, but I thought this was interesting: without Sandstorm, Claydol with a +SpA nature/44 SpA EVs/Stealth Rock will always OHKO Rampardos.

I think im the only one who has ever used Rampardos.

Kabutops is the same speed as Gallade, and also has a priority move(with STAB). MAybe Kabutops when Gallade is gone?

You lose the Fighting stab, and the especially important 120 Power 100% accuracy move.


Alot of these counters are tough to replace, because nothing with their STABs can replace them, minus possibly Medicham.

 

[XenoIncognito]

I still like Clefable in this metagame. It keeps stall teams in check. :)

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Let's just throw this out. Say Gallade and Medicham get compared in this new metagame. Here's a little overview of Gallade versus Medicham.

Unboosted Adamant Medicham has somewhere around 97 more Attack than Adamant Gallade, making it generally more effective for Choiced sets. HOWEVER, it has to resort to Hi Jump Kick for STAB, making it general push in STAB strength.

Gallade has a FAR better movepool than Medicham, packing a ton of unpredictable stuff such as Leaf Blade, X-Scissor, Stone Edge, all three elemental Punches, Shadow Sneak, and the ever-important Close Combat. Medicham is rather limited, and its sets are pretty much Hi Jump Kick / Psycho Cut / Ice Punch / Thunderpunch.

Gallade hits 766 Attack after a Swords Dance compared to Medicham's 720 after a Bulk Up. Combine that with the fact that Close Combat and Shadow Sneak are awesome whereas Bullet Punch and Hi Jump Kick are not, and it becomes obvious that Medicham's boosting sets just don't have the kick to them that Gallade's do.

Gallade's packing a very notable 65 / 115 Special Defense, which means that it can take a multitude of Special hits while setting up or attacking, something that Medicham wishes it could do with 60 / 75.

Basically, Medicham is good, but not outstanding, whereas Gallade just kicks ass in absolutely every category. It's been said that if you're not using Swords Dance, X-Scissor, or Shadow Sneak you should be using Medicham, but that's just not true. Medicham's STAB options are shitty, its coverage options aren't all that great, and its boosting options are rather laughable. Its inability to touch Spiritomb at all hurts, and unlike Gallade, when a Ghost switches in and eats its STAB, Medicham usually dies as a result.

 

[M BLADE]

I find Aggron to be a worse version of Rhydon to be perfectly honest. They both sport the excellent resistances to Flying and Normal (albeit Aggron does have 4X instead of 2X) but with Rhydon you have the benefit of STAB Earthquake, as well as only being 2HKOd by Close Combat from Staraptor. Aggron on the other hand, with his 4X weakness rather than 2X weakness to Fighting makes him a far less reliable counter to Staraptor.

That and Aggron has less raw attack power than Rhydon, meaning that if it wants to do sufficient damage in a tier where the relative bulk has greatly risen from old UU, it has to pump up its attack more than Rhydon does in order to do adecquate damage.

Aggron survived a Close Combat from Staraptor once(a subroost version).Like a said,you have to play with his support moves,which it's his great advantage.

 

[umbarsc]

I've never understood why Shadow Sneak was considered such a great move on Gallade. It's just so damn weak, and if you have anything faster, and sturdier than an Infernape (that's not weak to Ghost), you really shouldn't have trouble sponging the attack and OHKOing Gallade. Or you could revenge kill it with a slower sturdy priority user like Azumarill. I don't see Bullet Punch as being so much worse than Shadow Sneak, except it hits Staraptor and doesn't hit Raikou.

I don't really mind Gallade's Swords Dance set much at all. I fear Choice sets more, actually.

 

[Wyzra]

Swords Danced Shadow Sneak will OHKO a bulky Mismagius...so it's not really that "weak." In addition, Shadow Sneak has great situational usefulness, compensating somewhat for Gallade's poor speed.

I agree that Choice sets are perhaps better. I've been running Scarfed for a while and it works very well, though I wouldn't call it broken.

 

[Erazor]

It's more of the fact that Gallade has the raw power, especially after a Swords Dance, to effectively use Shadow Sneak. It's more of a 'finishing' move than a first-off attacking move.
But yes, in a metagame with Staraptor everywhere, the only set that scares me now is Choice Scarf Gallade.

 

[umbarsc]

Swords Danced Shadow Sneak will OHKO a bulky Mismagius...so it's not really that "weak." In addition, Shadow Sneak has great situational usefulness, compensating somewhat for Gallade's poor speed.

You're talking about a Pokemon weak to Ghost that has 60/60 defenses, so that's hardly surprising.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

You're talking about a Pokemon weak to Ghost that has 60/60 defenses, so that's hardly surprising.

The point isn't really the power, it's the priority that allows Gallade to avoid being revenge-killed by Ghosts and the occasional Psychic too. In fact without it you are leaving yourself open to the possibility of a fast Ghost coming in on a predicted Close Combat and forcing you out, causing your setup to count for nothing. Even against Spiritomb Shadow Sneak is useful for giving Gallade a fighting chance of beating it after it switches in on the Swords Dance turn.

 

[Relictivity]

The point isn't really the power, it's the priority that allows Gallade to avoid being revenge-killed by Ghosts and the occasional Psychic too. In fact without it you are leaving yourself open to the possibility of a fast Ghost coming in on a predicted Close Combat and forcing you out, causing your setup to count for nothing. Even against Spiritomb Shadow Sneak is useful for giving Gallade a fighting chance of beating it after it switches in on the Swords Dance turn.

Very true. Also, you can run Stone Edge to 2HKO Spiritomb after a Swords Dance.

 

[Heysup]

Dont question the awesomeness of priority!

an SD'd Shadow Sneak OHKOs many scarfers that would otherwise Revenge/incapitate Gallade such as Roserade and Rotom. Dont forget it also helps Gallade get rid of other Gallades. So yes Shadow Sneak is awesome.


Medicham could be useful though, with the set Bulk Up, Bullet Punch, High Jump Kick/Brick Break and Psycho Cut/Zen Headbutt.

 

[Relictivity]

Dont question the awesomeness of priority!

an SD'd Shadow Sneak OHKOs many scarfers that would otherwise Revenge/incapitate Gallade such as Roserade and Rotom. Dont forget it also helps Gallade get rid of other Gallades. So yes Shadow Sneak is awesome.

Yes priority is awsome. However, you need a second SD to 2HKO Spiritomb with Shadow Sneak. :(
<Gallade feels very cheated out of this 2HKO>

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

Relictivity, you misinterpreted what I meant regarding Spiritomb. Gallade doesn't 2HKO with Shadow Sneak, but a Stone Edge from +2 LO Adamant will do around 75% or more to most Spiritomb, which will often put it in KO range of Shadow Sneak. This is important because, whilst Stone Edge will always 2HKO if both hit, Spiritomb can respond with a 2HKO in turn using its own Shadow Sneak, which beats out the second SE. That is what I meant by Gallade having a 'fighting chance' of beating a Spiritomb that switches in thanks to Shadow Sneak.

 

[Relictivity]

Relictivity, you misinterpreted what I meant regarding Spiritomb. Gallade doesn't 2HKO with Shadow Sneak, but a Stone Edge from +2 LO Adamant will do around 75% or more to most Spiritomb, which will often put it in KO range of Shadow Sneak. This is important because, whilst Stone Edge will always 2HKO if both hit, Spiritomb can respond with a 2HKO in turn using its own Shadow Sneak, which beats out the second SE. That is what I meant by Gallade having a 'fighting chance' of beating a Spiritomb that switches in thanks to Shadow Sneak.

Don't worry, I understood. In fact, I was thinking about using Spiritomb for all those annoying Frosslass DB Leads... No more destiny bond kill. I was just thinkin that Spiritomb couldn't switch in and threaten, it would have to revenge kill (and would be successful in doing it).

However, I think that we are both talking about the same thing, just in different words. :)

 

[Crafty Veteran]

Yes priority is awsome. However, you need a second SD to 2HKO Spiritomb with Shadow Sneak. :(
<Gallade feels very cheated out of this 2HKO>

A Gallade set with Shadow Sneak is usually

-Swords Dance
-Close Combat
-Shadow Sneak
-Stone Edge

So, why use Shadow Sneak when you could net off OHKO on Spiritomb with Stone Edge?

 

[RBG]

A Gallade set with Shadow Sneak is usually

-Swords Dance
-Close Combat
-Shadow Sneak
-Stone Edge

So, why use Shadow Sneak when you could net off OHKO on Spiritomb with Stone Edge?

Stone Edge as they switchin, it usually wont kill it, so you use Shadow Sneak to finish it.

 

[Crafty Veteran]

Stone Edge as they switchin, it usually wont kill it, so you use Shadow Sneak to finish it.

Yes but, he was referring to the fact that you'll next another SD and Shadow Sneak to 2HKO Spiritomb when you could get Spiritomb easier with one SD and a Stone Edge which usually 2HKO or OHKO's it depending on the EV spreads.

 

[Lou Cypher]

This is going to sound odd, but I'm trying out a Yanma right now, with Life Orb. I'm struggling a bit finding a proper moveset (Although Protect and Bug Buzz are auto-ins) and its power is nothing to write home about, but it IS a lovely little finisher due to its speed boost. Protect on T1, and you'll outrun pretty near everything (Sans a few scarfers). Anyone have any suggestions for moves to accompany Bug Buzz? I found HP Ground to be okay to deal with weakened Steels so far, and most Poisons, but you think there are better ideas?

 

[Friar]

That does sound odd. Yanma has 95 base speed (same as yanmega) and...75 base special attack. That is not at all impressive. The only way to do any damage would be to run SunPetaya, but I expect that would suck as well. Venomoth is the one you want to run. It has the amazing ability Tinted Lens, and can wreck stuff with Tinted Lens Bug Buzz.

Venomoth @ Specs/Scarf
Timid/Modest
Tinted Lens
252 Sp.A/4 Sp. Def/252 Speed
Bug Buzz
Psychic
Sludge Bomb
HP Ground/Sleep Powder

This is infinitely better than Yanma

-friar04-

 

[Lou Cypher]

Venomoth's problem is that it doesn't get the speed boost, which is the very reason I'm wanting to give Yanma a try. It can outspeed the entire game without having to stick to a single move. SubPetaya sounds nice, particulary given its resistance to Mach Punch, but Bullet Punch/Ice Shard/Fake Out would screw it three ways backwards.

 

[Objection]

Ice Shard is practically non-existant, Fake Out is practically non-existant on anything other than Ambipom and Bullet Punch is practically non-existant on anything other than Hitmontop. In fact, priority moves in general tend to be practically non-existant in UU now.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

Ice Shard is practically non-existant, Fake Out is practically non-existant on anything other than Ambipom and Bullet Punch is practically non-existant on anything other than Hitmontop. In fact, priority moves in general tend to be practically non-existant in UU now.

Azumarill with Aqua Jet is extremely common, as is SD Gallade with Shadow Sneak. Extremespeed Arcanine is quickly rising in popularity, particularly as a lead, whilst more and more Spiritombs are reverting back to the tank set with WoW and Sucker Punch / Shadow Sneak. Hitmontop is quite popular too, and many carry at least one priority move with Technician. Even Blazikens are starting to run the occasional Vacuum Wave now. Then there's the odd Honchkrow and Toxicroak, both of which commonly pack Sucker Punch.

I don't know where you're getting this notion that priority moves are non-existant. Ice Shard isn't common because the most efficient users of it are OU (Mamoswine, Weavile) whilst the lack of Dragons means that it isn't needed anywhere near as much.

 

[Crafty Veteran]

I recently found out something effective. It's a pretty good set, so if you might want to try it.

Bulk-Up Healer

@ Leftovers
Ability: Pure Power
Careful Nature
EV: 252 HP / 98 Def / 160 Sp. Def

Bulk Up
Drain Punch
Psycho Cut
Recover

A fun set. With Pure Power most bulk up sets need some EV's invested into attack but this set doesn't need it. Already hits 312 attack and you have enough EV's to invest it's poor defenses. Recover is a great move with Bulk Up and if you want, Drain Punch is always going to keep you alive on some of the most lethal special attackers. Raikou will always carve 47-52% on you while you recover more than the damage you recive with Drain Punch after one Bulk Up. This set is pretty effective without Spiritomb and Sableye in play. Ice Punch is another option but Psycho Cut is too good to pass up.
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