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- Thread starter reachzero
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HP Ice because you aren't walled by the grass types if you use it. True you won't be able to OHKO Rhyperior and maybe Donphan but you still hit them for some good damage.
Just asking? Has anyone else tried mono-fighting with a trapper (I'm using Skuntank). It's been working great for me. CB Hitmonlee is ridiculously difficult to wall (I think the only safe switchins are psychics and ghosts after SR). Skuntank spells doom for both types in general.
Just asking? Has anyone else tried mono-fighting with a trapper (I'm using Skuntank). It's been working great for me. CB Hitmonlee is ridiculously difficult to wall (I think the only safe switchins are psychics and ghosts after SR). Skuntank spells doom for both types in general.
I'm fiddling around with my team because I really want to run Grass knot. Just the ability to kill the little fuckers (Rhyperior and Donphan) with Raichu gives me prime satisfaction.
2+ HP ice does OHKO Donphan and Rhyperior (standard Rhyperior is OHKO most of time with SR)
I myself used Drapion for the role (instead I ran LO Hitmonlee) and let me tell you this thing is really hard to switch into.
2+ HP ice does OHKO Donphan and Rhyperior (standard Rhyperior is OHKO most of time with SR)
I myself used Drapion for the role (instead I ran LO Hitmonlee) and let me tell you this thing is really hard to switch into.
So then why are you having a problem choosing if Raichu can kill those two with HP Ice plus get better coverage than with Grass Knot? It's not like you'll be switching Raichu into Rhyperior or Donphan, so the ability to OHKO them doesn't matter.
ps. Raichu is lame and the constant posting about it is really annoying
Despite Lightning Rod I'm pretty sure you'll be able to 1HKO Rhyperior with a +2 HP: Ice 70, so if that is your only concern, HP: Ice 70 > Grass Knot.
Edit: Yuggles beat me.
Edit: Don't want to double post but yeah... Yuggles has a point. I guess being cornered by Rhyperior (last 2 guys standing) was a psychological trauma I couldn't endure.
The only way you won't have a boost is if you have a sub up, which is basically the same as a Nasty Plot, you'll kill them either way. Donphan and Rhyperior are both slow, so just hammer them with an attack, die, bring in Raichu, and use HP Ice to finish them off.
Yeah, you only lose to Torterra, Leafeon, Tangrowth, random chlorophyll sweepers etc. and the most-used Pokemon in the metagame if you run GK.
Guys, sorry if i'm bringing this up again, but does really Torterra counter Torterra?
Assuming bulky Torterra switches vs LO Torterra:
1-VS Earthquake: bulky Torterra takes 18.8% - 22.1%. Ok, but if LO Torterra use Wood Hammer (44.8% - 53.1%) and the bulky one uses it too (39.9% - 47.1%), it's likely that LO Torterra ends up on Overgrow range, dealing the KO on bulky Torterra on the next attack while also Koing itself.
2-VS Stone Edge: almost the same thing (12.5% - 14.8%).
3-VS Wood Hammer: 44.8% - 53.1%. If you attack twice, the bulky Torterra is going to be on Overgrow range, dealing th KO on LO Torterra... but it's severely crippled (or even useless) for the rest of the match.
LO Toterra damage with Overgrow Wood Hammer: 67.2% - 79.7%.
Bulky Torterra damage with Overgrow Wood Hammer: 59.8% - 70.7%.
If bulky Torterra has Synthesis, it can stall out LO Torterra if it comes in on EQ or Stone Edge. If it comes into Wood Hammer, LO Torterra will KO it with Wood Hammer when it goes into Overgrow range, or it will leave bulky Torterra severely crippled/"useless".
This is a Torterra vs Torterra scenario only. No switches other than the initial bulky Torterra switch in involved.
If i missed something (very likely...), let me know.
This is for me to fully understand what "counter" and "check" really means.
Is bulky Torterra a counter or a check for LO Torterra?
Agan:if i missed something, which is very likely, let me know.
Thanks.
Assuming bulky Torterra switches vs LO Torterra:
1-VS Earthquake: bulky Torterra takes 18.8% - 22.1%. Ok, but if LO Torterra use Wood Hammer (44.8% - 53.1%) and the bulky one uses it too (39.9% - 47.1%), it's likely that LO Torterra ends up on Overgrow range, dealing the KO on bulky Torterra on the next attack while also Koing itself.
2-VS Stone Edge: almost the same thing (12.5% - 14.8%).
3-VS Wood Hammer: 44.8% - 53.1%. If you attack twice, the bulky Torterra is going to be on Overgrow range, dealing th KO on LO Torterra... but it's severely crippled (or even useless) for the rest of the match.
LO Toterra damage with Overgrow Wood Hammer: 67.2% - 79.7%.
Bulky Torterra damage with Overgrow Wood Hammer: 59.8% - 70.7%.
If bulky Torterra has Synthesis, it can stall out LO Torterra if it comes in on EQ or Stone Edge. If it comes into Wood Hammer, LO Torterra will KO it with Wood Hammer when it goes into Overgrow range, or it will leave bulky Torterra severely crippled/"useless".
This is a Torterra vs Torterra scenario only. No switches other than the initial bulky Torterra switch in involved.
If i missed something (very likely...), let me know.
This is for me to fully understand what "counter" and "check" really means.
Is bulky Torterra a counter or a check for LO Torterra?
Agan:if i missed something, which is very likely, let me know.
Thanks.
It doesn't really matter that bulky 'terra is cripped after countering the offensive variant, any real threat is going to cause some sort of damage. As long as bulky terra can switch in and consistently beat offensive terra I'd call it a counter.
I understand.
But on 60/70% of those scenarios, LO Torterra is taking bulky Torterra with it.
That's what i'm thrilled with: if LO Torterra can defeat bulky Torterra 60 or 70% of the time(unless this percentage is wrong. If it is... well, you know what to do... ), even if it's going to KO itself.
It should be considered a true counter?
Oh, and thanks for the answer.
But on 60/70% of those scenarios, LO Torterra is taking bulky Torterra with it.
That's what i'm thrilled with: if LO Torterra can defeat bulky Torterra 60 or 70% of the time(unless this percentage is wrong. If it is... well, you know what to do... ), even if it's going to KO itself.
It should be considered a true counter?
Oh, and thanks for the answer.
Just stall the damage with Synthesis and use Wood Hammer on the right moment and you'll be surviving with 40%. Or you can just really spam Synthesis, as once it reaches Overgrow range one Wood Hammer should be enough for the enemy Torterra to kill itself, meaning the overall damage output of the same will be 25%.
No, because Wood Hammer is a possible 2HKO with only SR in play, and the offensive version is obviously faster. Simple really.
I also thought about this scenario, whih is the best one for bulky Torterra IMO.
I think it can't spam Synthesis if bulky Torterra comes into Wood Hammer, since it will remain with 60/70% HP left until LO Torterra comes into Overgrow range (if it doesn't kill itself without even reaching it). Enough to deal the KO on bulky Torterra.
Am i right?
That's what i wanted to know.
Thanks for the answers guys.
Most of the time bulky terra will be coming in on the rock polish though won't it?
It is pretty much a counter... torterra's IME rarely spam wood hammer and only use it when they have to bc of the recoil. So I really doubt bulky tort will come in a woodhammer.
I guess you could call it a really really good check instead lol.
It is pretty much a counter... torterra's IME rarely spam wood hammer and only use it when they have to bc of the recoil. So I really doubt bulky tort will come in a woodhammer.
I guess you could call it a really really good check instead lol.
lol man o man what happened to dugtrio? I started playing and i have yet to see one(makes sense why though)
And I can sorta see why people believe milotic MAY BE up for suspect...without constant hard hitters, a lucky cirt, or toxic she is one of the hardest pokes to take down
And I can sorta see why people believe milotic MAY BE up for suspect...without constant hard hitters, a lucky cirt, or toxic she is one of the hardest pokes to take down
What's with Regirock at #51? It's one of the best Moltres counters around(yes, I said counter, not check), acts as a great wall in general, and anyone who's used a sand team can attest to the fact that Curse Regirock is notoriously hard to kill.
Torterra at 27 is also surprising... I thought that everyone knew how good it was lol.
Mesprit as the #3 lead is a huge jump, it's such a great lead :)
Spiritomb at #8 is weird. I mean, Rotom is probably the better spin Blocker. Is Alakazam really that scary? Well, yes it is, but w/e.
Interesting to see Mismagius in the top 5 again.
On a side note - I got upper reqs yesterday... and this is the round that's suspect-free lol.
Torterra at 27 is also surprising... I thought that everyone knew how good it was lol.
Mesprit as the #3 lead is a huge jump, it's such a great lead :)
Spiritomb at #8 is weird. I mean, Rotom is probably the better spin Blocker. Is Alakazam really that scary? Well, yes it is, but w/e.
Interesting to see Mismagius in the top 5 again.
On a side note - I got upper reqs yesterday... and this is the round that's suspect-free lol.
Yes Curse Regi's are hard to kill. I played someone yesterday witth my one team that couldn't handle Curse Registeel...needless to say, I was annoyed.
I too made upper reqs yesterday; I finally started battling a little more seriously and I must say, they were much easier to obtain than I anticipated. I mean, I've had a few alts really close to them, but I never really cared to make them because of th enature of the metagame, especially since most UU players are calling this round "suspect-less". It's the last day (well, next to last) of this round and I think I'm gonna take off lol. As long as I don't fall out of upper reqs before tomorrow (at midnight, I think) then I think I'll be ok. =)
I'm pretty sure that it will remain BL. If it gets promoted then OU...I guess. I'm not too sure, but I do know that it won't return to UU. Not like that anyway.
Just to add to this, Houndoom made a pretty big jump, and Sceptile is climbing higher and higher. Toxicroak also made a jump as well, probably cause of the CroakDoom combo.
And Moltres was knocked down as the number 1 Fire-type in the tier to Arcanine, which is a bit more versatile. Moltres is way too one-dimensional if you ask me. Also Milotic is slowly closing the gap between itself and Venu, could it be number one soon? It's probably responsible for the drop in usage of Azumarill and Feraligatr.
I don't get why Uxie is that high, it gets fucked over by so many things.
Hitmonlee also rose a bit, which I'm glad for because it was going to drop down to NU if it kept dropping. It's just sad that it's number one item is still Scarf.
Looking at the bottom of UU, I could never tell what might move up or drop down. If Exxegutor and Espeon keep this up they might move up. I know Eggy is pretty versatile but the only advantage I see of using Espeon instead of Zam is Baton Pass, and even though it's useful I didn't expect it to shoot up like that. Also why the fuck is Steelix that low, what's wrong with people?
But it's still a bit better off then Poliwrath, Slowking, Nidoking, and Regirock. Nidoking and Regirock have been steadily dropping so by September (next tier update, right?) they could probably drop.
And to respond to Erazor, I just have to say it's better late than never. Half a year ago Torterra and Mesprit were on the verge of NU, even after Yanmega was banned. It's about time people have finally seen the light. And I don't get how Mesprit can shoot up in leads that much and Uxie is still that high up there, probably cause there's a lot more battles going on with each passing month.
And Spiritomb just has good utility. It can throw out status while checking all these hard hitting special attackers (yes I think Zam would be suspect if Spiritomb wasn't UU), and Fighters.
I don't get what caused Mismagius to rise up so much, it's not like it was totally affected by Froslass or Raikou, but it's nice that it's up that high because it deserves to be.
Also still disappointed by Lopunny's usage. ;_;
That guy using curse regi was probably me. I've been messing around with a team utilizing Rest-talk CM Uxie and Curse Registeel with Milotic and some others for support. It's been working great, but gets screwed over by subcharge rotom.
On another note, I made upper req a while ago, but didn't notice it until someone just mentioned it. XD
On another note, I made upper req a while ago, but didn't notice it until someone just mentioned it. XD
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