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np: UU - Here It Goes Again

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I tried, I put together a team with Magneton and then a ton of crap that is normally stopped by Registeel, such as Yanmega, Missy, Swellow, etc. Didn't work quite as well as I expected. Sometimes I would be forced to send Magneton out and it would die before I had seen Registeel, or Registeel would T-wave me on the switch, meaning that now he EQs before I can Magnet Rise, and Magneton can no longer beat him. Basically my problem was that if, for whatever reason, Magneton failed in killing Registeel, I was in big trouble because it walled most of the rest of my team (also used a Blaziken as a back-up way to kill Registeel, but it doesn't matter, if Registeel walls every other Pokemon, it's still a huge pest).

Still, Magneton definitely deserves more love than it gets, even aside from trapping the Steels, its crazy resistances and powerful T-bolt (a rare commodity in UU) are very useful.
 
d2m said:
It's also walled by Uxie who can Yawn on a predicted Sucker Punch or Psychic for the OHKO. I've found Steelix able to handle a +2 Cross Chop and do major damage if not kill with EQ.

I have noticed, though, that every Balance/Stall team is running Regibro now that Honchkrow is gone, as he was the only one that could dent that particular setup.
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And Nasty Plot Toxicroak handles those very nicely... providing focus blast hits. I wonder how HP fighting does...

Toxicroak is really been great... He can come in and setup on a number of different common theats

OH and SD Zangoose with Return CC and quick attack is my favorite late game sweeper. Just like lucario :)
 
Is it just me, or is stall everywhere now? I swear the majority of teams I face are stall teams.

To be honest, I'd kind of like Honchkrow to come back. I never really found it to be that broken, and it nicely kept stall in line.

Also, it's been said before, but Torterra rocks in this meta. After a RP, it beats all but scarfers, and STAB EQ and Wood Hammer with Stone Edge gives really great coverage. Wood Hammer's recoil and priority attacks weaken it a bit more quickly than one would like, though, so Wish support helps it along nicely. Also, since almost no Registeel seem to run Toxic or Ice Punch anymore, it basically gets a free switch-in on Registeel, letting you either Rock Polish or Stone Edge the incoming flying-type. Hitmontop is probably its biggest enemy.
 
Hey, Absol IS out there. Believe it or not, SD Absol is a threat to stall teams. If Hitmontop is weakened or eliminated it can easily sweep with +2 Night Slash.

No way I'm using RP Torterra when it has no way to defend itself from the meta's ridiculous number of priority users. No Protect (or if you use that you're losing invaluable coverage), and it doesn't even resist any of the priority moves out there.
 
Good ole solid stall with Chansey/Altaria/Hitmontop/Spiritomb/Roserade/<insert alternate physical wall> etc, is really hard to deal with. I swear, that 5 pokemon core (if it can be called that) plus a random other pokemon (Rotom, Blaziken, Arcanine, Moltres, etc), is starting to become more prevelant. It's extremely hard to break unless they mispredict.
 
Bulky Drapion (should) take on that defensive core relatively easy. Uhm.. as does Spike stacking and TrickScarf shenanigans.
 
I'm surprised anyone is having major stall issues with Blaziken, Swellow, Roserade, and TrickSpecs Pokemon being so viable.

Magmortar and Nidoking are also quite impressive.
 
*says something about SD Absol, yet again*

Or, if you want, Absol can try and Pursuit Chansey or Roserade. Most people don't expect it to run Pursuit these days. Either way, he can be useful against stall. The stall breakers are out there, I think people just aren't using them. You can also try out a set I came up with to try and deal with stall, if you want:

Mismagius @ Leftovers
Timid, 48 Hp / 208 SpA / 252 Spe

Shadow Ball
Hidden Power Fighting / Thunderbolt
Calm Mind
Taunt

Standard SubCMer except with Taunt instead of Substitute. Taunt prevents Altaria's Perish Song, Hitmontop's Foresight, and any attempts to use Toxic. From there, CM and sweep. What's also nice is that Taunt shuts down Chansey's recovery, so you're free to run T-bolt and you'll still be perfectly capable of beating Chansey without having to PP stall. Generally you have to weaken Spiritomb before this can work, either that or get a couple CMs in before it shows up, but the latter is not difficult to do as many stall players will bring in Altaria on the first CM, get Taunted, then allow you to get a second CM as they go to Spiritomb.

This set isn't as useful against offense; even though Taunt provides in many ways the same benefits as Substitute, just without draining your health, it does require alot more prediction. It will be tougher to beat stuff like LO Roserade and Absol. However, it does come in handy against other things, such as Haze Milotic (another counter to the SubCM set which is simply stopped by Taunt), and in my experience it is much more effective against stall.
 
about that set, i don't even perish song mismagius, i straight Dragon Claw for a 3HKO. I run a pretty bulky special version since i don't have Haze Milotic. WJC, you are System Error aren't you, ive played you and your mismagius wasn't a Stall Breaker or hurt my team, but i don't know how people usually EV Altaria plus i run a different style kind of. But i do like the set and im going to try it out on my new team.

Here is a question, i wonder if Honchkrow is voted UU, will Absol just be placed back on the shelf or will he actually get more love now that people have seen his power? Sure they are different, but many people just replaced HOnch for Absol.
 
Yeah, a Dragon Claw set beats it, but in my experience more stall teams run the Dragon Pulse / Perish Song, dunno why, but TauntCM Missy screws that set over pretty bad. I've definitely swept stall teams with it before, not necessarily yours (don't really remember playing you, I'm sure I have though).
 
More people ought to be running Pursuit on their Absols (over Night Slash), even on the Swords Dance set it's perfectly viable. Pursuit is kind of weak but it still does -enough- to stop people from putting up Substitutes and attempting to beat Absol with non-attacking moves that beat Sucker Punch, and it will do a minimum 70% to an outgoing Chansey, with a Life Orb, meaning that pretty much every special attacker will be able to handle it the next time it comes in. And once Chansey is out of the game it's pretty much lol gg for stall. Milotic, Roserade, Moltres they're all coming in to dominate your life from that point forward. People just need to adapt a more OU mindset for this current metagame (and by that I mean specific threat removal). It's actually a sign that the tier is maturing and that random thrown together sets of offensive teams are no longer going to work at all.
 
LonelyNess said:
It's actually a sign that the tier is maturing and that random thrown together sets of offensive teams are no longer going to work at all.
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Haha bullshit. I'm having more success than ever just throwing 6 somewhat random offensive pokemon together. The tier is weak defensively. Have a few ways of taking down Registeel/Steelix and their bulky water and you basically have clear sailing. Crobat is really the only pokemon that can stop random offense from winning consistently otherwise team building requires no thought whatsoever. (i'm not saying that as a reason for crobat to stay uu, i think he's broken in uu. 6 random offensive pokemon isn't going to get you to 1st on the ladder anytime soon, but it can net you a fairly good win percentage)
 
After much laddering, I can safely say this tier lacks some originality. As wide of the selection of pokes you can choose, its the same offensive pokemon and same stall tools. Same movesets also. I mean this is your typical ladder stall team:

Roserade
Stealth Rock? Registeel / Steelix
Chansey / Clefable
[Insert bulky water here]
[metagame lacks spike user - omastar probably]
Hitmontop
[insert ghost-type spiritomb / trickrotom / trickmismagius]

You get the occasional drapion. This metagame lacks some strong pokemon who pack SR. Its always Registeel, Steelix, Regirock or the rare Chansey. Spikes? Its very very rare, Omastar is probably your best bet. Bulky water is probably essential to any team on stall because you are ultimately destroyed by Blaziken / Magmortar or Nidoking if your not packing one. Hitmontop's standard Foresight set and a Ghost-type which is limited to 3 choices (from my experience).
 
LN is right. I HATE pursuit on Absol... it can be crippling to Chansey, and I run it over SD on my absols simply for surprise factor (I never much saw the point of SD tbh). He really worded it well when he said people need to focus on specific threat removal. I mean, if you are running a team that HAS to remove a specific wall, say Chansey, then there is no reason to NOT run pursuit on Absol or some poke or even one move to beat a specific threat to a team.

However Jabba, I kinda have to disagree. I really think solid stall is going to beat random offensive teams 9 times out of 10. I've done it all suspect test or I wouldn't have spoken up, as that was what seemed to be the common mindset early on in the test when people were experimenting with offense, and it still is somewhat.
 
franky said:
Spikes? Its very very rare, Omastar is probably your best bet.
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lol

Roserade is much better than Omastar. Since TS is just useless in UU, the Spikes Set with Spikes / Rest / Aromatherapy / Grass Knot|Sludge Bomb is the best Roserade set, imo. It can setup SO easy on early game and give a nice advantage to Stall.

Also, i saw a team with Trick Specs Rotom / Dusclops. Man, it's just I M P O S S I B L E to spin even with Foresight Hitmontop. I think i'll make a stall team with this combination.
 
Tsubasa-kun said:
lol

Roserade is much better than Omastar. Since TS is just useless in UU, the Spikes Set with Spikes / Rest / Aromatherapy / Grass Knot|Sludge Bomb is the best Roserade set, imo. It can setup SO easy on early game and give a nice advantage to Stall.

Also, i saw a team with Trick Specs Rotom / Dusclops. Man, it's just I M P O S S I B L E to spin even with Foresight Hitmontop. I think i'll make a stall team with this combination.
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Dusclops is amazing. It beats Hitmontops that everyone relies on to spin w/o having to trick it with Rotom. Its bulkier than Spiritomb, and isnt weak to Close Combat. It needs more use tbh. I think this poke may be the main reason (along with Altaria) my stall team has performed so well.
 
franky said:
After much laddering, I can safely say this tier lacks some originality. As wide of the selection of pokes you can choose, its the same offensive pokemon and same stall tools. Same movesets also. I mean this is your typical ladder stall team:

Roserade
Stealth Rock? Registeel / Steelix
Chansey / Clefable
[Insert bulky water here]
[metagame lacks spike user - omastar probably]
Hitmontop
[insert ghost-type spiritomb / trickrotom / trickmismagius]

You get the occasional drapion. This metagame lacks some strong pokemon who pack SR. Its always Registeel, Steelix, Regirock or the rare Chansey. Spikes? Its very very rare, Omastar is probably your best bet. Bulky water is probably essential to any team on stall because you are ultimately destroyed by Blaziken / Magmortar or Nidoking if your not packing one. Hitmontop's standard Foresight set and a Ghost-type which is limited to 3 choices (from my experience).
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Yeah, stall is almost totally unoriginal, but since when has that been a new thing? I thought stall teams were always unoriginal, that's why I don't play them, they're boring as shit.

On the other hand, I think this tier has tons and tons of viable options for other types of teams and plenty of viable sets on many Pokemon, IMO, it's considerably more diverse than OU which feels heavily centralized by premier threats like Scizor and Gyarados. In UU there are very few threats that truly stand out from the rest, the only ones that really come to mind are SubCM Mismagius and I guess Yanmega (I swear this needs to be suspect), and you have Pokemon with millions of viable sets like Clefable and Nidoking, aswell as numerous Pokemon which can be very viably run either offensively or defensively (Moltres, Hitmontop, Hariyama, Milotic, Torterra, etc.). Rain Dance, Trick Room and Sunny Day are all more viable in UU, aswell, further adding to the tier's refreshing diversity.

Haha bullshit. I'm having more success than ever just throwing 6 somewhat random offensive pokemon together
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What's your team, and how does it beat stall?
 
blaziken does a number on stall, running one with hp grass, or thunderpunch along with obligatory fighting, fire and rock move.
 
I'm going to agree with Jabba for the second time in a row (I know right).

My team that I reached #1 with was basically just a "best of the best Random Pokemon with good resistances thrown together" team. If you have switch-ins to stall, you beat it. Well you really should. Blaziken alone should take out two Pokemon in on a stall team at the very least. Then you have your generic strong attackers, like Roserade, Absol, and Swellow, tearing up the rest of the team.

I think stall is perfectly viable when built correctly, as it should be, but I do think Random offensive teams can be quite successful still.
 
Heysup said:
I'm going to agree with Jabba for the second time in a row (I know right).

My team that I reached #1 with was basically just a "best of the best Random Pokemon with good resistances thrown together" team. If you have switch-ins to stall, you beat it. Well you really should. Blaziken alone should take out two Pokemon in on a stall team at the very least. Then you have your generic strong attackers, like Roserade, Absol, and Swellow, tearing up the rest of the team.

I think stall is perfectly viable when built correctly, as it should be, but I do think Random offensive teams can be quite successful still.
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Only if they mispredict or are badly built teams.
 
I disagree with the Blaziken comment.

Milotic should be outspeeding the wall breaker Blaziken, so its not like it should be be getting multiple ko's on stall with Milo.

Altaria shouldnt lose to Blaziken even with SR as long as you make sure you dont use an attack to put it into Blaze range before Altaria gets in the match and can roost to max health burning through fire blasts pp.
 
BurtonEarny said:
I disagree with the Blaziken comment.

Milotic should be outspeeding the wall breaker Blaziken, so its not like it should be be getting multiple ko's on stall with Milo.

Altaria shouldnt lose to Blaziken even with SR as long as you make sure you dont use an attack to put it into Blaze range before Altaria gets in the match and can roost to max health burning through fire blasts pp.
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Nobody runs Speed EVs on Altaria? I always used 64 Speed EVs when using a defensive Altaria, and never regretted it tbh, easily finishing off slow Blazikens on low health. Though I guess on full-on stall teams Altaria wouldn't have any room for Pluck / Aerial Ace / HP Flying in its moveset, but with Crobat and Shaymin available options there probably wasn't much need to do so. Not sure about now.
 
I run some speed, but not enough to outspeed Blaziken. Its not worth it to me tbh... I have never had a problem with Blaziken ko'ing Altaria without SE, Hp ice or a crit.
 
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