Just one piece of advice: don't do this. I always auto-switch the genders to female every time I create a new team, and I'm sure many others do as well.
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np: UU - The Boys Are Back in Town
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Just one piece of advice: don't do this. I always auto-switch the genders to female every time I create a new team, and I'm sure many others do as well.
You would be surprised, Lemmiwinks. I once used a Rivalry Nidoking lead and for fun I jotted down how many people actually used a non-default Female Pokemon and the results were strikingly low, less than even 1% of all my opponents. Rivalry is definitely one of those things that -seems- like people would prepare for, but rarely do. It's kind of like "checking" for Sand Viel Dugtrio, people say they check -every- time, but hardly anyone actually does.
So when i fight with you i will use Nidoqueen lol problem solved
Seriously, without Rivalry Nidoking would be meh for me. I would rather use Rhyperior or something stronger. Rivalry is what makes Nido a high risk/righ reward poke and there's much more reward than risk. Besides, he can still hit for decent damage any female poke with a SD passed to it(unless it is Miltank or female Milotic... they are a problem).
I rather take the risk than play safe with Nido.
I do... even when I make rmt's I try to make a note that they are all female. Also, the occasional person who tries to use attract annoys me so its nice to make them have a wasted move slot so its not exactly just for nidoking. At any rate... Once I use a team and decide to change it a bit, one of the first things I do is make them all female.
That wasn't my question. I already have a good team that would have so many more holes with Duggy. I have several checks to Raikou without even trying, but I don't seem to use Ice Beam at all, so I was simply wondering whether I should go with EQ, as it breaks Subs (IIRC), and also gets me the hit against Toxicroak. Of course, this is mostly theorymon, since my current UU team hasn't met any Raikou at all yet.
Actually, Rivalry works well, as almost no one bothers to switch genders. I do, but I'm one of the few.
NOTE: Liking our new sub-forum...
Well, here's my assessment of what I've experienced in UU so far:
Raikou: Definitely one of the best Pokémon in UU and very good at sweeping. All it needs is Life Orb + 1 Calm Mind to run through a single team, 2HKOing stuff like Venasaur with just a Shadow Ball.
Rhyperior: It hasn't been to much of a problem for me since I carry a Torterra on my current team. Regardless, I've found it underwhelming in comparison to other physical sweepers as well.
Alakazam: It hasn't been threatening either since I've mainly faced it as a lead, and Spiritomb 100% counters it.
Moltres: Although this has been in UU for a while, I feel this should definitely be considered for BL. Moltres hits extremely hard and the only thing "that prevents it from switching it repeatedly" is Stealth Rock, which didn't really stop Yanmega either. The attacking combination of Fire Blast, Air Slash, and Hidden Power Grass behind a Life Orb and (was it?) base 125 Special Attack is just insane.
I haven't encountered the other suspects nearly enough to make a good assessment, but I've been using Choice Band Gallade myself and it is simply a force to be reckoned with.
Raikou: Definitely one of the best Pokémon in UU and very good at sweeping. All it needs is Life Orb + 1 Calm Mind to run through a single team, 2HKOing stuff like Venasaur with just a Shadow Ball.
Rhyperior: It hasn't been to much of a problem for me since I carry a Torterra on my current team. Regardless, I've found it underwhelming in comparison to other physical sweepers as well.
Alakazam: It hasn't been threatening either since I've mainly faced it as a lead, and Spiritomb 100% counters it.
Moltres: Although this has been in UU for a while, I feel this should definitely be considered for BL. Moltres hits extremely hard and the only thing "that prevents it from switching it repeatedly" is Stealth Rock, which didn't really stop Yanmega either. The attacking combination of Fire Blast, Air Slash, and Hidden Power Grass behind a Life Orb and (was it?) base 125 Special Attack is just insane.
I haven't encountered the other suspects nearly enough to make a good assessment, but I've been using Choice Band Gallade myself and it is simply a force to be reckoned with.
Here's my assessment of the most common Pokémon in UU. Most aren't in order, save #1.
1. Venusaur: This thing is EVERYWHERE. Holy crap. But, it's for a reason - Power Whip was a godsend to it, and its speed is good enough to tie with most of the top Pokémon.
2. Gallade: Lol. Everyone complains so much, but it honestly is extremely prone to revenge killing. Honchkrow rapes it too, lol, with its mindgames of doom.
3. Rhyperior: Very good defensively, and a huge threat with the RP set. But it's stopped cold by most Bulky Waters and Grasses (looks at Milotic and Venusaur)
4. Sceptile: Ridiculous. I've seen way too many. All either a SubSeeder or SpecsTile, the latter of which is hugely effective with proper prediction.
5. Milotic: Pwned nowadays, but still beats what she needs to.
6. Hitmontop: Actually a big surprise to me, but I see a lot.
7. Raikou: Uncommon for me, but it seems big for the rest of you.
This metagame needs more Moltres, Honchkrow, and Swellow.
HP Grass Honchkrow is beastly awesome, destroying its biggest counter - Rhyperior. Thankfully, Regirock and Steelix still check. Brave Bird runs through so much, OHKO'ing so many of its former threats with good prediction, and just breaking holes in the other person's team. Sucker Punch is insane, damage-wise (50% to other Honchkrow, 60% to Houndoom, OHKOs Swellow, Sceptile, and many others. Priority is awesome as well). Superpower is just the icing on the cake. Roost and Pursuit are great in the Other Options section.
Moltres, all you need to do is Air Slash the first time in, dent their Water badly. Milotic, Chansey and Altaria are the only real safe switch-ins (who uses Miltank?). But Milotic can be broken with HP Grass if you force it out immediately after it comes in (Venusaur, anyone?), and SR down. Altaria is the only real safe switch in. And if you run stall, Chansey - Moltres has NO chance against it. Azumarill needs Fire Blast to come in, Regirock needs Air Slash. Houndoom and Arcanine are both OHKO'd by Air Slash after SR. It can be checked, but few counters exist. And it still rapes, regardless - just get SR out of the way.
My fave is Swellow - it checks so much. U-turn is a great lure first time in, then once you have the counter down for the count (-er) (fail joke), then Facade and Brave Bird rip through teams. Quick Attacks works wonders against Sucker Punchers, and offers a way out against weakened priority users, and a way to get in critical last-second damage against revengers.
Thus, Flying is a brutal offensive typing in UU.
1. Venusaur: This thing is EVERYWHERE. Holy crap. But, it's for a reason - Power Whip was a godsend to it, and its speed is good enough to tie with most of the top Pokémon.
2. Gallade: Lol. Everyone complains so much, but it honestly is extremely prone to revenge killing. Honchkrow rapes it too, lol, with its mindgames of doom.
3. Rhyperior: Very good defensively, and a huge threat with the RP set. But it's stopped cold by most Bulky Waters and Grasses (looks at Milotic and Venusaur)
4. Sceptile: Ridiculous. I've seen way too many. All either a SubSeeder or SpecsTile, the latter of which is hugely effective with proper prediction.
5. Milotic: Pwned nowadays, but still beats what she needs to.
6. Hitmontop: Actually a big surprise to me, but I see a lot.
7. Raikou: Uncommon for me, but it seems big for the rest of you.
This metagame needs more Moltres, Honchkrow, and Swellow.
HP Grass Honchkrow is beastly awesome, destroying its biggest counter - Rhyperior. Thankfully, Regirock and Steelix still check. Brave Bird runs through so much, OHKO'ing so many of its former threats with good prediction, and just breaking holes in the other person's team. Sucker Punch is insane, damage-wise (50% to other Honchkrow, 60% to Houndoom, OHKOs Swellow, Sceptile, and many others. Priority is awesome as well). Superpower is just the icing on the cake. Roost and Pursuit are great in the Other Options section.
Moltres, all you need to do is Air Slash the first time in, dent their Water badly. Milotic, Chansey and Altaria are the only real safe switch-ins (who uses Miltank?). But Milotic can be broken with HP Grass if you force it out immediately after it comes in (Venusaur, anyone?), and SR down. Altaria is the only real safe switch in. And if you run stall, Chansey - Moltres has NO chance against it. Azumarill needs Fire Blast to come in, Regirock needs Air Slash. Houndoom and Arcanine are both OHKO'd by Air Slash after SR. It can be checked, but few counters exist. And it still rapes, regardless - just get SR out of the way.
My fave is Swellow - it checks so much. U-turn is a great lure first time in, then once you have the counter down for the count (-er) (fail joke), then Facade and Brave Bird rip through teams. Quick Attacks works wonders against Sucker Punchers, and offers a way out against weakened priority users, and a way to get in critical last-second damage against revengers.
Thus, Flying is a brutal offensive typing in UU.
In my opinion the most threatening thing about Alakazam is dual screens, Alakazam is crazy good at it and its made all the more threatening by having Raikou and Gallade in the game right now just itching to come in and set up behind screens.
Also imo Honchkrow is still showing the offensive characteristic, There just isn't anything that stops it well enough. Raikou is definitely showing a certain bl'ness to me. Rhyperior has been really underwhelming so far both in use and in playing against it. I'm not too sure on Gallade and some of the others yet.
Also Sceptile has been hurting me alot, not sure if it's just my team's weakness to it or if its really that powerful, even able to beat Vensaur with some good luck. Speaking of vensaur, that thing is strong, either just tanking attacks as a bulky grass, sleeping was does threaten it, or sweeping teams with its new toy.
Also imo Honchkrow is still showing the offensive characteristic, There just isn't anything that stops it well enough. Raikou is definitely showing a certain bl'ness to me. Rhyperior has been really underwhelming so far both in use and in playing against it. I'm not too sure on Gallade and some of the others yet.
Also Sceptile has been hurting me alot, not sure if it's just my team's weakness to it or if its really that powerful, even able to beat Vensaur with some good luck. Speaking of vensaur, that thing is strong, either just tanking attacks as a bulky grass, sleeping was does threaten it, or sweeping teams with its new toy.
Revenge killing = Gallade got a kill = its done its job
Not to mention you can't revenge kill him on stall team, because he OHKO's every member besides Spiritomb. And let's face it, Spiritomb is rarely in tip top shape. It's probably taken enough damage by the time Gallade comes in to be OHKO'd by a +2 attack.
Might I suggest that everyone who thinks Gallade is less than stellar take a look at these posts
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1739420&postcount=857
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1739466&postcount=862
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1739482&postcount=864
Literally nothing has changed in UU to hurt Gallade, except that Gallade no longer has to run Stone Edge and can now run Leaf Blade to eliminate Slowbro from the list of potential counters.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1739420&postcount=857
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1739466&postcount=862
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1739482&postcount=864
Literally nothing has changed in UU to hurt Gallade, except that Gallade no longer has to run Stone Edge and can now run Leaf Blade to eliminate Slowbro from the list of potential counters.
Taking a calc from one of those posts...
The outcome doesn't matter... it's the fact that you let him setup. Also, if you don't pack a reliable revenge killer for him then you deserve to lose. And by "packing a counter" it is not like there is only one specific check to knocking out Gallade. You have several options.
The outcome doesn't matter... it's the fact that you let him setup. Also, if you don't pack a reliable revenge killer for him then you deserve to lose. And by "packing a counter" it is not like there is only one specific check to knocking out Gallade. You have several options.
And how exactly do you propose you stop a Gallade from setting up? It gets a lot of chances to get a Swords Dance against stuff like Venusaur / Milotic / other weak special attacking walls(who can't do nearly enough damage to stop it from setting up)
Basically what you're saying is "run stall and you lose to Gallade, so don't run stall", and even that's not true, there are plenty of chances for a Swords Dance against an offensive team too, or maybe Gallade can just do an allout attacking set, considering nothing on an offensive team can hope to take a hit from Gallade, in fact most offensive teams -rely- on it trying to set up... and then start crying when it Close Combats out of the gate instead of Swords Dances.
Also can everyone STOP USING REVENGE KILLING AS SOME SORT OF ARGUMENT AGAINST A POKEMON.
Revenge killers exist, but unless they can 100% force the Pokemon to not only stay in, but to also die, they're worthless because I'm just going to switch out. No one is stupid enough to leave their Gallade against your Kangaskahn that switched in to revenge kill, I'm just going to switch to my appropriate Kangaskhan counter... and there is nothing that can revenge kill Gallade that has the ability to threaten the rest of a team sufficiently... in UU there's no Salamence who threatens to slam you with Draco Meteors, or Dragon Danced Outrages, there's no Gyarados who can sweep your team at the drop of a hat, there's only weak ass little Pokemon who can't punish Gallade for switching out against your revenge kill, and that's the biggest reason why Revenge killing is terrible against Gallade; there's no punishability for me just switching out and trying again later, and in order for revenge killing to be a viable form of taking care of something, there needs to be some way to punish me for just switching out (such as you getting to set up something absolutely devestating), and in UU, there simply isn't anything like that for Gallade.
Basically what you're saying is "run stall and you lose to Gallade, so don't run stall", and even that's not true, there are plenty of chances for a Swords Dance against an offensive team too, or maybe Gallade can just do an allout attacking set, considering nothing on an offensive team can hope to take a hit from Gallade, in fact most offensive teams -rely- on it trying to set up... and then start crying when it Close Combats out of the gate instead of Swords Dances.
Also can everyone STOP USING REVENGE KILLING AS SOME SORT OF ARGUMENT AGAINST A POKEMON.
Revenge killers exist, but unless they can 100% force the Pokemon to not only stay in, but to also die, they're worthless because I'm just going to switch out. No one is stupid enough to leave their Gallade against your Kangaskahn that switched in to revenge kill, I'm just going to switch to my appropriate Kangaskhan counter... and there is nothing that can revenge kill Gallade that has the ability to threaten the rest of a team sufficiently... in UU there's no Salamence who threatens to slam you with Draco Meteors, or Dragon Danced Outrages, there's no Gyarados who can sweep your team at the drop of a hat, there's only weak ass little Pokemon who can't punish Gallade for switching out against your revenge kill, and that's the biggest reason why Revenge killing is terrible against Gallade; there's no punishability for me just switching out and trying again later, and in order for revenge killing to be a viable form of taking care of something, there needs to be some way to punish me for just switching out (such as you getting to set up something absolutely devestating), and in UU, there simply isn't anything like that for Gallade.
I'm seeing Arcanine everywhere lol
I would be surprised if Arcanine isn't top 10 now.
Morning Sun gave it everything it needed to start pwning things.
Where's Aggron? This thing is goddamn good when he sees an opportunity to switch(he gets plenty,especially against Swellow). Head Smash is just destructive, capable of OHKO an enormous number of pokes (i think even 252 HP Azumarill is OHKOed, and it takes off 50% of Hitmontop, who resists Head Smash. So it won't be able to come again. In UU, only Quagsire is capable of countering it as many times as it needs... one single counter. One that not everyone uses.)
And i see that DD Crawdaunt was just hype... no one uses it.
I would be surprised if Arcanine isn't top 10 now.
Morning Sun gave it everything it needed to start pwning things.
Where's Aggron? This thing is goddamn good when he sees an opportunity to switch(he gets plenty,especially against Swellow). Head Smash is just destructive, capable of OHKO an enormous number of pokes (i think even 252 HP Azumarill is OHKOed, and it takes off 50% of Hitmontop, who resists Head Smash. So it won't be able to come again. In UU, only Quagsire is capable of countering it as many times as it needs... one single counter. One that not everyone uses.)
And i see that DD Crawdaunt was just hype... no one uses it.
Torterra won't take Ice Punch. Aqua Tail 2HKO Rhyperior no matter what. And Aggron is faster.
Aggron main use is to switch into something slower/Choiced/walled. Once you do so, you can start bringing pain to the enemy. And Aggron has many opportunities to switch thanks to the typing.
About speed, Rock Polish remedies that just like with the even slower but powerful cousin Rhyperior, and his better speed means Aggron can have a Adamant nature while Rhyperior needs to be Jolly. And Aggron still outspeeds some Scarfed pokes that Rhyperior can't like Adamant Gallade/Honchrow for example.
I think it was LN who posted in his nom about the actual revenge killers for Gallade, and how basically 2 of them can switch into one of gallade's non set-up attacks.
Revenge killing isn't a valid argument unless that Pokemon is more threatening than the Pokemon it is forcing out. So saying "I use Spiritomb to stop Gallade" is not only (a) a bunch of bullshit, since Gallade OHKOes Spiritomb with a +2 Stone Edge since Spiritomb can't run much defense because of Froslass, and (b), an invalid argument because Spiritomb doesn't threaten shit.
An example of what you should be suggesting as revenge killers is something like Honchkrow. Staraptor was the perfect example when it was allowed...
Revenge killing isn't a valid argument unless that Pokemon is more threatening than the Pokemon it is forcing out. So saying "I use Spiritomb to stop Gallade" is not only (a) a bunch of bullshit, since Gallade OHKOes Spiritomb with a +2 Stone Edge since Spiritomb can't run much defense because of Froslass, and (b), an invalid argument because Spiritomb doesn't threaten shit.
An example of what you should be suggesting as revenge killers is something like Honchkrow. Staraptor was the perfect example when it was allowed...
Honestly, you act like you're going to predict the switch-in magically. First time, I go to them. Second time, I go to a Bulky Water.
Uh... i can switch too. I'm not gonna stay if i'm certain you outspeed me(with Torterra). If you keep bringing in Torterra/Rhyperior, there will be a time when use i Rock Polish instead of Head Smash, then i proceed to sweep. Your team will probably be weakened then.
If it's a defensive Torterra, i just use Ice Punch after i use Head Smash.
Rhyperior is outspeeded so attacking versions won't counter it, and defensive ones can takeonly 2 Head Smashes then one Aqua Tail will finish them off. Not to say any weird Magnet Rise version(i use it lol) and both pokes are going to struggle against Aggron.
The RP+3 attacks set is only countered 100% by Quagsire(you can MAYBE force it out once with some of the "counters" you mentioned but probably not twice... that's the sweetness about Aggron).
Oh yeah, forget about the team you faced just now(with the Dunsparce lead)... that team is for lolz(and its lame)since i don't care about ratings on the ladder. So i'm not stupid like i played lol
I know that isn't your regular team.
I thought you were talking about a CB set, and pointed those out as counters. They would force Aggron to switch out, and next time, had I been using them (I don't use either right now), it would be obvious that you'd predict it, and I'd send in a bulky water accordingly.
But you don't run CBGron.
I thought you were talking about a CB set, and pointed those out as counters. They would force Aggron to switch out, and next time, had I been using them (I don't use either right now), it would be obvious that you'd predict it, and I'd send in a bulky water accordingly.
But you don't run CBGron.
Lol, what!? Who in their right mind is NOT going to attack Gallade with an OFFENSIVE team? Even if it doesn't KO he is in revenge kill range. Also, how is the ability to revenge kill not relevant? If we were to look at it that way... Salamence is unbeatable because he has no solid counters and therefore should be tested. Revenging is irrelevant then these so called "checks" that people use aren't actually viable because you know... the pokemon "can just switch out."
When did I imply that? If you are a competent stall player you will make damn sure Gallade or any other top threat has a hard time pulling off a sweep, if he even gets the chance to. Also on a side note, since when is it a requirement for a metagame to be able to run stall teams? As long as it ain't broke then there ain't a problem... I've been seeing a lot of "Gallade almost qualifies for this characteristic," if he doesn't meet the charecteristic head on than HE ISN'T BL WORTHY.
"in UU there's no Salamence"
Nope and if there was anything close to it people would cry and it would be gone in a heart beat.
Right, because entry hazards are far from common and to difficult to setup and keep up. I see your point. Yes, it goes both ways but lets not fall into that petty arguement.
For whatever reason you allowed Gallade to setup here are Pokemon that can effectively outspeed and hit him hard.
Gallade vs...
Swellow: Facade OHKO's
Dugtrio: LO EQ: 79.1% - 93.1%, CB EQ 91.0% - 107.2%
Ambipom: LO Double Hit: 95.4 Min
Raikou: LO T-Bolt: 59.6% - 70.4%, LO Shadow Ball: 67.1% - 79.4%
Scyther: AA: OHKO's
Arcanine: FlareBlitz: 97.8% - 115.9%
Houndoom: LO Fire Blast: 72.6% - 85.6%
Moltress: LO Fire Blast 79.4% - 94.2%
Nidoking: LO Earthquake: 85.9% - 101.8%
Milotic: LO Hydro Pump: 68.2% - 80.5%
I don't know... I think a major problem is that people are unwilling to change/ adapt to metagames. A prime example of this is that people think that stall teams have to be viable otherwise the metagame isn't "stable."
CBGron is good for OU. RPgron is WAY better in UU i tell you.
Do some test with Aggron and see if he's great or not for you.
I reccomend either the RP+3 attacks or the one i use(Rock Polish/Magnet Rise/Aqua Tail/Head Smash)
! said:
This list is pretty much bs even though it's already an impressively low amount of Pokemon.
Dugtrio: OHKOed by +2 Shadow Sneak. I'm pretty sure we can both agree a Pokemon isn't threatening while fainted + failing to do anything to Gallade at all.
Swellow: Threatening late game, yes, but Rhyperior, Regirock, etc all lol at it. In any case, it isn't more threatening than Gallade itself.
Moltres: Has to KO itself to KO Gallade after a Sneak because of SR. It is definitely not "threatening" when its fainted.
Scyther is actually OHKOed by Sneak after Stealth Rock. Scyther is also stupid easy to switch into even if it wasn't KOed. It does shit all to Pokemon like Rhyperior, Regirock, Steelix...etc. So it's fainted + not threatening, especially when compared to Gallade.
Most Ambipom don't use double hit. If they do, then they probably don't use Low Kick, making them not even remotely threatening (if they were anyway....) to Pokemon like Rhyperior. Not threatening compared to Gallade itself.
Milotic is pretty easy to switch into, and Raikou can set up. In any event, is Milotic more threatening than Gallade? No.
You get the point by now I assume. None of the Pokemon you listed can actually force Gallade out and be more of a threat than Gallade is. Therefore you basically proved revenge killing is an invalid argument.
When the game devolves into - Destroy things with Gallade until such a point that the opponent brings out a faster Normal-type, to which they can then exploit via Rhyperior, I have a problem with Gallade.
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