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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)
- Thread starter twash
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I made up own nomination.
I nominate Skuntank under the
Annoying Characteristic
A Pokémon is a suspcet if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently annoy the hell out of the opponent. Via causing a brain aneurysm from sucker punch/pursuit fake out or the ole explosion.
I nominate Skuntank under the
Annoying Characteristic
A Pokémon is a suspcet if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently annoy the hell out of the opponent. Via causing a brain aneurysm from sucker punch/pursuit fake out or the ole explosion.
Hypno (I believe), Regice, Articuno, Gastrodon, Quagsire, Xatu, Gardevoir, Muk, and Walrein. Not a massive, or impressive list, but as I said, Charizard is a sweeper, not a wall breaker. It just has the luxury of being able to beat a lot of walls. It just hits everything that doesn't resist Fire Blast really really really hard.
If Charizard runs HP Grass, that list is almost entirely destroyed.
Actually, here's a Zard set I've been using a bunch.
Zard @ Choice Specs.
252 speed, 252 Spa, 4 defense.
Timid
~ Flamethrower
~ Overheat
~ Focus Blast
~ Air Slash.
Spam Air Slash, surprise your opponent when they switch in a Fire resist, and when they are all weakened, Flamethrower them all to death. Overheat is for last resorts, and Focus Blast is filler really.
Actually, here's a Zard set I've been using a bunch.
Zard @ Choice Specs.
252 speed, 252 Spa, 4 defense.
Timid
~ Flamethrower
~ Overheat
~ Focus Blast
~ Air Slash.
Spam Air Slash, surprise your opponent when they switch in a Fire resist, and when they are all weakened, Flamethrower them all to death. Overheat is for last resorts, and Focus Blast is filler really.
Good, since that's the list of Pokemon its supposed to beat.
Ah. How did I miss that? -_-
What special walls DOESN'T zard take on?
What special walls DOESN'T zard take on?
Grumpig, Slowking, and Mantine. I cant think of anything else really, but I'm sure there are more. =/
Long story short: Slowking is better than it in every single way, except the Skuntank weak.
Which, conviniently, Thunderpunch Bellyzard takes out 2 of those easily.
I'm curious what move you guys all think is best on Medicham. I'm already set on
-Hi Jump Kick
-Psycho Cut
-Ice Punch
but I'm curious what should fill the last slot. It's basically between Fire and Thunderpunch, because I don't really want to have to rebreed for Bullet Punch AND Psycho Cut (if that's even possible)
Fire would be great against steels obviously, and Thunder would be better against waters and fliers. I feel like fire would be more useful for this reason, since killing steels is annoying, but the Smogon Medicham page never even lists fire punch in its sets.
So.. thoughts?
-Hi Jump Kick
-Psycho Cut
-Ice Punch
but I'm curious what should fill the last slot. It's basically between Fire and Thunderpunch, because I don't really want to have to rebreed for Bullet Punch AND Psycho Cut (if that's even possible)
Fire would be great against steels obviously, and Thunder would be better against waters and fliers. I feel like fire would be more useful for this reason, since killing steels is annoying, but the Smogon Medicham page never even lists fire punch in its sets.
So.. thoughts?
Trick, and then stick a Choice item on it.
Also, maybe get rid of Psyco cut for Zen Headbutt and Hi Jump Kick for Brick Break.
Also, maybe get rid of Psyco cut for Zen Headbutt and Hi Jump Kick for Brick Break.
In my experiences with NU, Miltank has never actually been a problem. I was using one myself in the lead position, and it was terrible taunt bait and it really does lack the offense, for example not being able to break Articunos substitute in a battle I had. I was using Miltank/ Jumpluff/ RP Rhydon/ Slowking/ Sub Magneton/ Primeape and i could usually just muscle through it, most tend to forgo earthquake
Talking about Jumpluff, its probably the best pokemon in NU. Sleep Powder, encore, U-turn an stun spore are a set up sweepers dream, and I have had much sucess when paired with Sub SD Marowak and RP Rhydon, some threats that sometimes teams forget to prepare for. It can also set up the sun which is a common weather in NU and can use a leech seed stalling set if thats your kinda thing. Very good pokemon imo
Miltank isn't a good lead, really, because it's horrible to have to try and switch something into Medicham and many leads carry Fighting-type moves these days. It also can't do anything in the face of Sandslash and Relicanth.
RP Rhydon has problems with Primeape and other Scarfers. It also fails to OHKO Slowking and 2HKO Miltank. Therefore I don't really like it that much. Equipped with a Choice Band, however, it can be a threatening hit-and-run attacker that can 2HKO Miltank and easily switches in on it.
Miltank doesn't really need 'the offense'. Body Slam easily wears down things without recovery provided they don't 2HKO you. Stall wars do ensue with things like Slowking and Quagsire though.
RP Rhydon has problems with Primeape and other Scarfers. It also fails to OHKO Slowking and 2HKO Miltank. Therefore I don't really like it that much. Equipped with a Choice Band, however, it can be a threatening hit-and-run attacker that can 2HKO Miltank and easily switches in on it.
Miltank doesn't really need 'the offense'. Body Slam easily wears down things without recovery provided they don't 2HKO you. Stall wars do ensue with things like Slowking and Quagsire though.
well adamant 252 attack LO Megahorn easily KOes Max HP/ min Slowking (calm) while max HP/ max def Slowking has a decent chance to be KOed with Stealth Rock (78.7% - 92.9%). Unless you were talking about Jolly RP Rhydon
I completely agree here. I've used a variety of sets, but most often either subseed/encore or encore/reflect. The subseed set can take out multiple pokemon on its own, between the combination of Jumpluff's speed going almost unmatched in the tier and its useful resistances to switch in on. With encore as well, it's easy to switch in on a stat-up move, encore, and begin a subseed cycle that, without priority, is almost impossible to break.
The other set I've been using is Encore, Reflect, U-turn, Memento. While the subseed set is good, this set might just be better. Encore something the opponent doesn't want to be stuck using, reflect, u-turn out to your sweeper. If the Pokemon you set up Reflect on isn't a great attacker, Memento gives you an even better opportunity to set up. I've been using this set with BD Linoone and BDzard, and have been able to get either one set up early in the match often, leading to easy sweeps.
Why did I say Magmortar's broken, while Medicham is not?
Magmortar has the capability to be far more unpredictable than Medicham. Medicham, you KNOW is going to use Physical attacks, and generally, you have a basic idea of what type. The predictability of Medicham is far larger than Magmortar.
Magmortar's also FAR bulkier than Medicham, and is far less predictable, making a fearsome combination. Magmortar can attack physically, or specially.
Medicham's been in NU since day 1, and, while it's been powerful, it's not been smashing the teir, or forcing every team to use it, or pack a counter. Magmortar is either on every team, or forcing every team to run Slowking, who's a check only. That sort of centraliastion in the metagame seems broken to me, especially when the best NU can muster is a check that can be 2HKO'ed by one of Magmortar's most common moves.
Medicham has priority, sure, but it dosen't have STAB, or Technician, so it's actually quite weak priority, even with such a high attack stat, BP 40 isn't killing much.
As for Slowking, maybe it is like Venasaur, but the point is, without the broken pokemon in the metagame, especially Magmortar and Espeon, Slowking will be even harder to take out, and that's why I feel it's a POSSIBLE suspect. But only after those 2 are long dead and buried. Skuntank's the same, not much can stand up to it's Sucker Punches and Persuits, and be in a state to fight again, while it's not 'Broken' now, it's more like Scizor in OU, it may be broken with the removal of certain broken pokemon.
Also, Miltank's OK as a lead. How's it Taunt bait, when few common leads outspeed it? It has the fastest rocks in the Teir, and is perfectly capable to coming in later and providing team support. A defensive Support Militank would make a decent lead, to bring back mid game, and wall, or use Heal Bell, or spread Thunder Waves.
Magmortar has the capability to be far more unpredictable than Medicham. Medicham, you KNOW is going to use Physical attacks, and generally, you have a basic idea of what type. The predictability of Medicham is far larger than Magmortar.
Magmortar's also FAR bulkier than Medicham, and is far less predictable, making a fearsome combination. Magmortar can attack physically, or specially.
Medicham's been in NU since day 1, and, while it's been powerful, it's not been smashing the teir, or forcing every team to use it, or pack a counter. Magmortar is either on every team, or forcing every team to run Slowking, who's a check only. That sort of centraliastion in the metagame seems broken to me, especially when the best NU can muster is a check that can be 2HKO'ed by one of Magmortar's most common moves.
Medicham has priority, sure, but it dosen't have STAB, or Technician, so it's actually quite weak priority, even with such a high attack stat, BP 40 isn't killing much.
As for Slowking, maybe it is like Venasaur, but the point is, without the broken pokemon in the metagame, especially Magmortar and Espeon, Slowking will be even harder to take out, and that's why I feel it's a POSSIBLE suspect. But only after those 2 are long dead and buried. Skuntank's the same, not much can stand up to it's Sucker Punches and Persuits, and be in a state to fight again, while it's not 'Broken' now, it's more like Scizor in OU, it may be broken with the removal of certain broken pokemon.
Also, Miltank's OK as a lead. How's it Taunt bait, when few common leads outspeed it? It has the fastest rocks in the Teir, and is perfectly capable to coming in later and providing team support. A defensive Support Militank would make a decent lead, to bring back mid game, and wall, or use Heal Bell, or spread Thunder Waves.
How is Magmortar unpredictable? Who runs any set besides this one?:
Magmortar@Life Orb/Choice Scarf
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
That's pretty predictable, acctually. I've never seen a physical Magmortar before.
It doesn't need to be unpredictable, it hits like a truck. YOU of all people should know that Leman.
I never said that since its predictable that it sucks. (Actually, I think its still broken, no matter how predictable it is) I was just pointing out how he was so incredibly wrong.
I actually figured that, but still. Yes, the statement was wrong, but maybe you should have mentioned that, even predictable, it still hurts.
Directed at him, I'd never run physical Magmortar. MAYBE mixed if there was a special wall worth hitting that way (A la... it in the upper tiers with Focus Punch), but there isn't.
Directed at him, I'd never run physical Magmortar. MAYBE mixed if there was a special wall worth hitting that way (A la... it in the upper tiers with Focus Punch), but there isn't.
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