OM Mashup Megathread

STABmons Mix and Mega

What is STABmons Mix and Mega?

STABmons Mix and Mega (often shortened to STABnMega or SnM) is a mashup between STABmons and Mix and Mega - Pokemon have access to any move of their typing and can use Mega Stones to gain the stats and abilities of those mega evolutions.

Council:
:mewtwo: PokaPK
:wooloo: fabwooloo
:exeggutor-alola: Eggs McGee
:ditto: WMAR
:nihilego: alaserdolphin
:jirachi: Ax

Ruleset and Banlist:
  • Species Clause: A player cannot have two Pokemon with the same National Pokédex number on a team.
  • OHKO Clause: A Pokemon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
  • Evasion Clause: A Pokemon may not have either Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
  • Sleep Clause: If a player has already put a Pokemon on his/her opponent's side to sleep and it is still sleeping, another one can't be put to sleep.
  • Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.
  • Dynamax Clause: Players cannot use the mechanic known as Dynamaxing.
  • Overflow Stat Mod: Caps stats at 654 after a positive nature, or 655 after a negative nature.
BANNED: Calyrex-Shadow, Kyogre, Zacian
RESTRICTED: Calyrex-Ice, Dialga, Dragapult, Dragonite, Eternatus, Genesect, Gengar, Giratina, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kartana, Keldeo, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Landorus-Therian, Lugia, Lunala, Marshadow, Melmetal, Mewtwo, Naganadel, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Palkia, Rayquaza, Regigigas, Reshiram, Spectrier, Tapu Koko, Urshifu-Base, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zekrom, Zygarde, Zygarde-Complete
BANNED: Electrify, Baton Pass
RESTRICTED: Acupressure, Astral Barrage, Belly Drum, Bolt Beak, Boomburst, Clangorous Soul, Double Iron Bash, Extreme Speed, Fishious Rend, Geomancy, Glacial Lance, Lovely Kiss, Precipice Blades, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Sleep Powder, Spore, Thousand Arrows, Transform, V-Create, Wicked Blow
Abilities: Moody, Shadow Tag
Items: Beedrillite, Blazikenite, Gengarite, Kangaskhanite, Mawilite, Medichamite, Pidgeotite, King's Rock

Where can I play it?
STABnMega is implemented as a playable format on the official OM Mashups side server Trashchannel, hosted by CringeMeta. For the month of August it is implemented as one of the LCOTM, but tours for it are also commonly set in the OM Mashups room on PS! The STABnMega tour code can be found in the OM Mashup megathread and in a spoiler section below. Additionally, it can be played by challenging someone using the code /challenge mixandmega@@@stabmonsmovelegality, or if you want to make sure both players are respecting the banlist, challenging them with the code found below. And for the month of August it will have its own tier, which means it can be challenged as its own tier just like OU or Random Battle. If you would like to find someone to play with, feel free to ask for a game in the OM Mashups Room or our discord.

/challenge [Gen 8] Mix and Mega @@@STABmons Move Legality,*Acupressure,*Belly Drum,*Bolt Beak,*Boomburst,*Clangorous Soul,*Double Iron Bash,*Extreme Speed,*Fishious Rend,*Geomancy,*Lovely Kiss,*Shell Smash,*Shift Gear,*Spore,*Thousand Arrows,*Transform,*V-create,*Wicked Blow,*Astral Barrage,*Glacial Lance,*Dragapult,*Dragonite,*Kartana,*Landorus-Therian,*Tapu Koko,*Zygarde-Base,*Spectrier,*Precipice Blades,*Urshifu-Rapid-Strike,*Genesect,*Sleep Powder,*Keldeo, -Kings rock

/tour new [Gen 8] Mix and Mega, Elimination
/tour rules STABmons Move Legality,*Acupressure,*Belly Drum,*Bolt Beak,*Boomburst,*Clangorous Soul,*Double Iron Bash,*Extreme Speed,*Fishious Rend,*Geomancy,*Lovely Kiss,*Shell Smash,*Shift Gear,*Spore,*Thousand Arrows,*Transform,*V-create,*Wicked Blow,*Astral Barrage,*Glacial Lance,*Dragapult,*Dragonite,*Kartana,*Landorus-Therian,*Tapu Koko,*Zygarde-Base,*Spectrier,*Precipice Blades,*Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, *Genesect, *Sleep Powder,*Keldeo, -Kings Rock
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons Mix and Mega

Strategy and Sample Sets:
STABmons Mix and Mega allows for many sets and strategies unique to the mashup, differentiating itself from STABmons and Mix and Mega. The stats, abilities, and typings gained from Mega Stones like Lucarionite, Scizorite, and Sablenite all play into a variety of different roles, and allow some interesting and effective uses of Pokemon that gain new moves via STABmons.

:garchomp:
Garchomp @ Scizorite
Ability: Rough Skin -> Technician
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Dragon Darts
- Shore Up
- Dragon Dance
New Stats: 108/150/135/90/105/112

:magearna:
Magearna @ Latiasite
Ability: Soul-Heart -> Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Doom Desire
- Moonblast
- Volt Switch
- Moonlight
New Stats: 80/115/145/160/135/65

:regieleki:
Regieleki @ Altarianite
Ability: Transistor -> Pixilate
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Extreme Speed
- Volt Switch / Explosion
- Rapid Spin
New Stats: 80/140/70/140/50/200
New Typing: Electric/Fairy

Resources:
Sample Teams
Viability Rankings

:runerigus: :zeraora: :tapu bulu: :slowking-galar: :corviknight: :entei: Runerigus + Zeraora Bulky Offence by Eggs McGee

:primarina: :eternatus: :celesteela: :rotom-wash: :runerigus: :virizion: Scizorina + Eternatus Balance by Eggs McGee

:zygarde-complete: :zamazenta: :indeedee: :toxapex: :corviknight: :clefable: No Retreat Zamazenta Bulky Offence by Wmar

:mew: :magearna: :zygarde-complete: :lunala: :toxapex: :regieleki: Slow 'n' Bulky Balance by Eggs McGee

:mew: :magearna: :slowking-galar: :virizion: :swampert: :regieleki: Venusaurite Slowking Galar + Pinsirite Calm Mind Magearna Bulky Offense by Eggs McGee

:silvally: :lunala: :regieleki: :heatran: :mamoswine: :terrakion: Suicide Silvally lead HO by fabwooloo

:Terrakion: :Kyurem: :Entei: :Blissey: :Corviknight: :Swampert: Lucarionite Terrakion + Cameruptite Kyurem Balance by Ax

S- TIER:
:Blissey: Blissey(Sablenite, Ampharosite, Slowbronite, Audinite)
:Corviknight: Corviknight (Venusaurite, Sablenite, Manectite)
:Entei: Entei (Altarianite, Pinsirite)
:Garchomp: Garchomp (Scizorite, Lucarionite, Sablenite, Tyranitarite)
:Regieleki: Regieleki (Pinsirite, Altarianite, Glalitite)

A+ TIER
:Lunala: Lunala(Heavy Duty Boots, Leftovers, Power Herb)
:Magearna: Magearna (Manectite, Latiasite, Venusaurite, Cameruptite, Sablenite)
:Solgaleo: Solgaleo (Latiasite, Aggronite, Venusaurite, Metagrossite, Sablenite, Aerodactylite)
:Terrakion: Terrakion (Lucarionite, Aerodactylite, Lopunnite, Pinsirite, Altarianite, Metagrossite)
:Thundurus-Therian: Thundurus (Lucarionite, Absolite,
:Toxapex: Toxapex (Bannetite, Gyaradosite, Latiasite, Sablenite)

A TIER:
:Landorus: Landorus(Lucarionite, Salamencite, Pinsirite, Scizorite, Charizardite Y)
:Rhyperior: Rhyperior (Tyranitarite, Heracronite, Latiosite)
:Slowbro: Slowbro (Sablenite)
:Victini: Victini (Metagrossite, Lucarionite, Charizardite Y)
:Zeraora: Zeraora (Pinsirite, Lopunnite, Altarianite, Metagrossite)
:Zygarde-Complete: Zygarde-Complete (Leftovers, Lum Berry)

A- TIER:
:Arcanine: Arcanine (Altarianite, Pinsirite)
:Blacephalon: Blacephalon (Lucarionite, Houndoomite, Charizardite Y)
:Groudon: Groudon (Leftovers, Lum Berry)
:Heatran: Heatran (Latiasite, Charizardite Y, Ampharosite)
:Ho-Oh: Ho-Oh (Heavy Duty Boots, Choice Band)
:Kyurem: Kyurem (Lucarionite, Scizorite, Cameruptite)
:Mamoswine: Mamowsine (Scizorite, Lucarionite)
:Mew: Mew (Sablenite, Banettite)
:Pheromosa: Pheromosa (Gyaradosite, Aerodactylite, Diancite)
:Tapu Lele: Tapu Lele (Diancite, Lucarionite, Cameruptite)
:Tyranitar: Tyranitar (Tyranitarite, Heracronite)

B+ TIER
:Buzzwole: Buzzwole(Gyaradosite, Metagrossite, Absolite)
:Celesteela: Celesteela (Venusaurite, Audinite, Sablenite)
:Ditto: Ditto (Choice Scarf)
:Eternatus: Eternatus (Black Sludge, Life Orb, Choice Specs, Throat Spray)
:Excadrill: Excadrill (Lucarionite, Metagrossite, Pinsirite, Lopunnite, Scizorite)
:Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn (Sablenite, Banettite)
:Hippowdon: Hippowdon (Venusaurite, Sablenite, Altarianite, Pinsirite)
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz (Sablenite, Venusaurite, Gyaradosite)
:Runerigus: Runerigus (Tyranitarite, Banettite)
:Slowking-Galar: Slowking-Galar(Latiasite, Aggronite, Cameruptite)
:Stakataka: Stakataka (Heracronite, Latiosite, Garchompite)
:Swampert: Swampert (Sablenite)
:Xerneas: Xerneas (Power Herb)
:Yveltal: Yveltal (Heavy Duty Boots, Choice Scarf, Choice Band)

B TIER
:Avalugg: Avalugg (Aggronite)
:Gyarados: Gyarados (Lucarionite, Metagrossite, Scizorite)
:Hippowdon: Hippowdon (Venusaurite, Sablenite)
:Jellicent: Jellicent (Aggronite, Sablenite)
:Kartana: Kartana (Life Orb, Leftovers, Choice Scarf)
:Latios: Latios (Lucarionite)
:Moltres: Moltres (Audinite)
:Noivern: Noivern (Pinsirite, Salamencite)
:Snorlax: Snorlax (Aggronite, Sablenite, Bannetite)
:Tapu Bulu: Tapu Bulu (Bannetite, Lucarionite)
:Volcarona: Volcarona (Charizardite Y, Lucarionite)
:Zapdos: Zapdos (Venusaurite)

B- TIER
:Kyurem-Black: Kyurem-Black (Heavy-Duty Boots)
:Lucario: Lucario (Pinsirite, Altarianite, Lopunnite)
:Primarina: Primarina (Cameruptite, Manectite, Scizorite)
:Silvally: Silvally (Lopunnite, Diancite, Steel Memory, Ghost Memory)
:Slowking: Slowking (Sablenite, Cameruptite)
:Sylveon: Sylveon (Gardevoirite, Altarianite)
:Toxtricity: Toxtricity (Pinsirite, Altarianite, Glalitite)
:Umbreon: Umbreon (Audinite, Sablenite, Banettite)
:Zygarde-10%: Zygarde-10% (Lucarionite, Altarianite, Pinsirite)

C TIER
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss (Banettite)
:Bewear: Bewear (Scizorite, Loppunite)
:Claydol: Claydol (Tyranitarite, Venusaurite)
:Darmanitan-Galar: Darmanitan-Galar (Diancite)
:Dracovish: Dracovish (Sharpedonite, Swampertite)
:Dracozolt: Dracozolt (Lucarionite)
:Dugtrio: Dugtrio (Lopunnite, Choice Band)
:Indeedee: Indeedee-M (Diancite)
:Oranguru: Oranguru (Venusaurite, Sablenite, Audinite)
:Pelipper: Pelipper (Damp Rock)
:Shuckle: Shuckle (Gyaradosite, Ampharosite)
:Vaporeon: Vaporeon (Audinite)
:Zamazenta: Zamazenta (Aerodactylite, Metagrossite)
:Zapdos-Galar: Zapdos-Galar (Lopunnite, Aerodactylite)
 
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First things first we need to address the elephant in the room.

This set passes the checks and is legal in battle.
Zacian @ Lopunnite
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Play Rough
- Wild Charge
- Close Combat


Yeah I hope this wasn't intended since mega evolving an AG mon is totally fair and balanced. I decided to use Lopunnite since Scrappy comes with an intimidate immunity.

Anyways moving on here is a fun set I have been using

Blacephalon @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Solar Beam

Basically Eruption spam until everything dies with some extra moves that may or may not be needed.

One more thing I noticed is that putting Dragon Ascent on a Flying type does not let it mega evolve with Mega Rayquaza's stat boost unlike when Smeargle does it in gen 7 mix and mega. While this is probably disabled for being broken I just wanted to make sure it wasn't an oversight.
 

Eggs

formerly Eggs McGee
is a Pre-Contributor
First things first we need to address the elephant in the room.

This set passes the checks and is legal in battle.
Zacian @ Lopunnite
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Play Rough
- Wild Charge
- Close Combat


Yeah I hope this wasn't intended since mega evolving an AG mon is totally fair and balanced. I decided to use Lopunnite since Scrappy comes with an intimidate immunity.

Anyways moving on here is a fun set I have been using

Blacephalon @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Solar Beam

Basically Eruption spam until everything dies with some extra moves that may or may not be needed.

One more thing I noticed is that putting Dragon Ascent on a Flying type does not let it mega evolve with Mega Rayquaza's stat boost unlike when Smeargle does it in gen 7 mix and mega. While this is probably disabled for being broken I just wanted to make sure it wasn't an oversight.
Yep, Zacian being legal was an error, that mon absolutely does not belong in Mix and Mega formats. I dig the lopunnite set tho

I love using Charizardite Y Blacephalon to absolutely demolish slower walls, but unfortunately 107 isn't a great speed tier for an offensive Pokemon in this format. Diancite and Lucarionite are the most common stones for it due to the similar (but not quite as devastating) power boost and important increase in speed.

Lastly, Dragon Ascent (along with Red Orb and Blue Orb) are no longer available "stones" in Mix and Mega formats. This was just part of the mechanics changes between Gen 7 and Gen 8, along with the removal of Aggronite's Steel typing.
 
There seem to be an issue with the way abilities are applied... I wanted to use this :

Espeon @ Altarianite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Techno Blast
- Psystrike

But Techno Blast didn't seem to become fairy-type, even though it is a normal-type move that should be affected by pixiliate. Any thoughts on that matter?
 
There seem to be an issue with the way abilities are applied... I wanted to use this :

Espeon @ Altarianite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Techno Blast
- Psystrike

But Techno Blast didn't seem to become fairy-type, even though it is a normal-type move that should be affected by pixiliate. Any thoughts on that matter?
thing with techno blast is that the move changes type with the drive for genesect so say you had the flame drive(or whatevs its called) then it would be fire type, its like multi attack and judgement and these moves dont change with the -ate abilities
 

LTG

No, I'm not LowTierGod
is a Pre-Contributor
There seem to be an issue with the way abilities are applied... I wanted to use this :

Espeon @ Altarianite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Techno Blast
- Psystrike

But Techno Blast didn't seem to become fairy-type, even though it is a normal-type move that should be affected by pixiliate. Any thoughts on that matter?
Your best bet would be running Hyper Voice instead, iirc it’s the strongest special normal move with no drawbacks besides boomburst that doesn’t have the issues techno blast does
 
:ss/Calyrex-Ice:
I am a bit surprised that Calyrex-Ice isn't mentioned for STABmons Mix and Mega. It's already a huge threat without some of the fancy tools in this Meta. Due to its base for, Calyrex-Ice has access to Strength Sap and Synthesis for recovery, and can use Cotton Guard for Body Press sets. And of course, it is the only Pokemon capable of using Glacial Lance do to restrictions, which hits so hard off its 165 Atk. Even against bulky resistances, it will do a huge chunk of damage. With bulk that is similar to Lugia's but flipped, now having access to some good recovery, and is already fantastic before.
With how this metagame is played, backbones are pretty hard to come by in this meta, since most things need to Mega Evolve in order to switch in at all. So Calyrex-I should be a very welcomed addition to most teams.
Defensive (Calyrex-Ice) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Synthesis/Sap Strength
- Aromatherapy
- Leech Seed/Spectral Thief
- Glacial Lance/Spectral Thief
Pretty much what you would expect from a defensive set, and because of Calyrex-Shadow, Calyrex-Ice can steal the stat boosts from Pokemon and use it against them, which is great for a physically bulky Pokemon like Calyrex-Ice, which unlike other defensive Spectral Thief users, Calyrex-I packs a punch to beat Blissey with.

Sub (Calyrex-Ice) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Synthesis/Strength Sap/Sword Dance
- Substitute
- Leech Seed/Sword Dance
- Glacial Lance
Nearly the same set vanilla Calyrex, but utilizes Calyrex's expanded movepool from its Grass form, making it so that Calyrex-I has a stronger backbone in this extremely easy to die meta. You also want that speed for Ho-oh, which the analysis doesn't mention and I realized just so recently what it was for.

Choice Band (Calyrex-Ice) @ Choice Band
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Glacial Lance
- High Horsepower/Close Combat
- Aromatherapy/Spectral Thief
- Spectral Thief/Aromatherapy
Also similar to vanilla Calyrex-I, the Choice Band set doesn't use Icicle Spear when you can have Spectral Thief for superior coverage and utility. As such, you can also more easily pare it with Close Combat.

Body Press (Calyrex-Ice) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Body Press
- Glacial Lance/Spectral Thief
- Synthesis/Leech Seed
After some thought, Calyrex-Ice is still somehow better as a Body Press user than Zamazenta (I do think Zamazenta should definitely be higher, as not having a strong and fast Special attacker or dedicated Pokemon like Runerigus or BigGuyPex with Haze is an incredibly easy Wincon), which can even Mega Evolve with Slowbronite to get some of the strongest Body Presses in the game and is so fast. I say this because Calyrex-Ice doesn't rely on Toxic Spikes support and isn't outright ruined by Prankster Topsy-Turvy, Haze, or Runerigus. With Glacial Lance, Calyrex-Ice can do at least 73% to Runerigus (that is with an Impish Nature, doing 79% with Adamant). Alternatively, you can use Spectral Thief to steal back your boosts while still 2HKOing Runerigus, and hit BigGuyPex pretty hard as well. Glacial Lance obviously is better against Topsy-Turvy spam as well with the main users being part flying and aren't behemoths that can stomach a 165 Atk 130 BP STAB neutrally, much less weak to.
 
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Lastly, Dragon Ascent (along with Red Orb and Blue Orb) are no longer available "stones" in Mix and Mega formats. This was just part of the mechanics changes between Gen 7 and Gen 8, along with the removal of Aggronite's Steel typing.
Is there a more detailed post explaining why this is the case?
I mean, Megas as a whole were completely changed (aka being removed) in Gen 8. Plus I really miss having the only 2 immediate defensive options that aren't regular Ubers.
 
I want to share some detail about Sun Team in Mix and Mega LC. During early SwSh era, i saw Sun Team as immediately probematic and became my primary target to look at due to some changes happened in this gen. First off, both Blue Orb and Red Orb are gone and can't be used as a Mega Stone in Mix and Mega, and this indirectly buffs Sun Team by a lot, removing one of reliable counterplay to them, which is changing the weather and doing so is limited to a near-unviable Tyranitarite and Abomasite.

Setters
:ss/vulpix:
Vulpix @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Level: 5
EVs: 28 Atk / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Weather Ball
- Memento
- Quick Attack / Overheat
- Energy Ball
Main setter, it has access to Drought pre-mega, which allowed it to run Heat Rock to extend Sun turns.

:ss/onix:
Onix @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 236 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
Charizardite Y grants user Drought upon Mega Evolving, which gives Sun Team extra option for auto-sun setter. Charizardite Y Onix's main purpose here is to mega evolve, set sun and die/explode, you can alternatively used other pokemon.

:ss/riolu::ss/cottonee:
Riolu @ Heat Rock
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 36 Atk / 116 Def / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunny Day
- Final Gambit
- Copycat
- High Jump Kick

Cottonee @ Heat Rock
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 116 Def / 220 SpA / 36 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Defog
- Memento
- Dazzling Gleam
Sun Team can occasionally run a manual setter(preferably Prankster pokemon with Sunny Day) if they want to.

Overall, you only have one Tyranitarite/Abomasite to get rid on sun, while Sun team has 3 possible option, two of which are auto-setters.

Abusers
:ss/ponyta:
Ponyta @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Flame Charge
- Morning Sun
Houndoominite grants user a +40 Defense, and this is almost as high as Sablenite's +50 Defense. This allowed them to actually tank a priority in a pinch. Houndoominite Ponyta with sun support in particular can melt through even some resist. Houndoominite is not the only sun abuser they have, the next two abusers are even more broken than this one:

:ss/bulbasaur:
Bulbasaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 5
EVs: 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Weather Ball
- Sleep Powder

Yes, this is just a vanilla Bulbasaur, no Mega Stone needed, but Life Orb is more than enough to grant it a firepower boost that it needs, and i could even argue that its almost as strong as Diancite's boost. Bulbasaur's combination of Solarbeam, Sludge Bomb, and Weather Ball are almost unresisted and it can even attempt to cheesed through random counter with Sleep Powder. Modest Bulbasaur in sun is capable of outspeeding even the likes of Diancite Diglett and Diancite Elekid, who is supposedly the fastest Megas. You can't outspeed this thing with a Mega pokemon, so you have to rely on priority to beat this.

:ss/tangela:
Tangela @ Eviolite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Def / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam / Giga Drain
- Growth / Sludge Bomb
- Ancient Power / Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder / Growth
After Isle of Armor was released, Sun Team was blessed with the return of another sun abuser in Tangela. Tangela has a base Special Attack equal to that of a Gastly, and its that strong, even an unboosted SolarBeam can dent through walls and some offensive pokemon can get straight-up OHKOed by it, and it still retain its high physical bulk, which was abused in two ways; being able to reliably set-up Growth and tanking priorities with ease. Like Bulbasaur, Tangela in sun is also capable of outspeeding all Megas, but even harder to properly take down with priority:

228 Atk Buneary @ Lopunnite Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 4-6 (17.3 - 26%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
Possible damage amounts: (4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6)

196+ Atk Tough Claws Timburr @ Aerodactylite Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 6-7 (26 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Possible damage amounts: (6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7)

236 Atk Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 8-12 (34.7 - 52.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 12)

236 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 10-16 (43.4 - 69.5%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 16)

196+ Atk Pixilate Zigzagoon @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 7-9 (30.4 - 39.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 9)

196+ Atk Aerilate Zigzagoon @ Pinsirite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 14-18 (60.8 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 18)

252 Atk Aerilate Elekid @ Pinsirite Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 8-12 (34.7 - 52.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 12)

196 Atk Adaptability Pawniard @ Lucarionite Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 10-12 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 12)

Even some super effective priority like some Pinsirite users are only dealing 35-ish% and its even worse if you ran into Growth Giga Drain set.

Charizardite Y + Houndoominite is actually not broken on its own, its adding a Chlorophyll user that abuses sun so much that makes Sun Team broken as a whole. Tangela and Bulbasaur are more broken than Houndoominite as an abuser.
 
So I decided to do this because I have no better things to do was bored; I decided to theorymon a few Sets for National Dex PokéAAAbilities. (https://pokepast.es/826bf7767662b90d) I had a lot more but they all died due to me not thinking they were good enough to mention and I’m tired.

(I’ll just explain them in order like a normal person would, so get ready. Some EVs might look off because I’m a picky person.)

:gliscor:
Gliscor could probably run something like Magic Bounce / Unaware / Moldy over Guts for more Utility, but Guts makes it even stronger after Boosts.

:landorus-therian:
Lol Corv go less than 10% Magic Bounce is probably going to be more common for Mold Breaker to be utilized, but Aerilate can break so many Walls the mind games are ridiculous.
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Landorus-Therian Explosion vs. Unaware 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 185-218 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

:magnezone:
Credit to 23Gz for this Set. Analytic makes its STABs pretty strong when Sub is up, which can be achieved through trapping Corv and stuff. This thing can always grab a KO or two. There’s probably better Pokémon that can do the job of Steel Trapper like Heatran but Magnezone threatens more Steel Types like M Sciz with STAB.

:tapu koko:
More credit for the last one (It’s supposed to be Adapt btw.) to 23. All of these are stonewalled by Volt Absorb Pokémon but it’s cool against Ground Type users. :V

:corviknight:
I have nothing to say on this one. Most of us know what it does, so like there’s not much explanation to it. Common other options like Boots / Lefties on Physically Defensive Sets for checking threats better or increasing the roll chance in your favor. You can also run ID over Defog / U-turn to take hits like Aerilate Explosion from Lando better.

:garchomp-mega:
More credit. This is a pretty fun Set to just be a really strong Sweeper especially under the typical Screens it’s used to.

:blaziken:
Who knows? Maybe this will be broken…
Just walled by Volt Absorb Toxapex / Slowbro.

:diancie-mega:
This is just standard M Dia with Download though it probably won’t be too great. Very fun to think about though. Sorta credit to 23Gz for talking about Download with Mega Mawile.

:shuckle:
Poképaste Edit: Mold Breaker with Mental Herb can be used instead.
Skipping the first one because :wynaut:, (We know what it does anyways.) the second Set is probably not good at all due to Magic Guard / Bounce being everywhere. It also really needs stuff removed if it wants to clean up unfortunately.

:greninja:
This is just one of the Sets it can run. It’s very versatile in its Sets with the amount of coverage it can run like Grass Knot for Regenerator Swampert, U-turn to take advantage of forced switches, etc. Spikes is able to take advantage of the amount of switches it forces while also being able to chip Pokémon into KO range, tho it’s not gonna be as easy as vanilla bc of MG and stuff. Also, more credit to 23Gz.

:kyurem:
Kyurem does Kyurem things, ofc. You can drop Draco Meteor for coverage and use Moldy as an Ability for Immunities if you want, however Adapt stronkkkk. Btw you can run Modest but you miss out on very important benchmarks that I can’t really remember right now.

And that’s just about it for theorymon session. I dropped so much on this list I’m wondering why I even wrote this up in the first place, but yeah, this isn’t the only amount of Sets you can build around. (It’s barely enough.) There’s more in my head when I’m writing this post but this is only what’s in the Paste, so yeah. If you wanna play with anyone that has a Team, you can always go on the OMM Trashchannel, which is hosted by CringeMeta! (Which I give credit to for Teambuilder support.) Thank you for reading! Edit: ND PokéAAA code is here.
 
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:ss/onix:
Onix @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 236 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
Charizardite Y grants user Drought upon Mega Evolving, which gives Sun Team extra option for auto-sun setter. Charizardite Y Onix's main purpose here is to mega evolve, set sun and die/explode, you can alternatively used other pokemon.
If your main goal of this set is to set sun and suicide on the same turn, why not use Diglett or Skunky? Diglett has Memento with Stealth Rock and is significantly faster, while Skunky has both Explosion and Memento for you to choose while being faster.
 
After playing a bunch of SMNM ladder, I have noticed how common some Pokemon are. Namely, Toxapex, Regieleki, Entei, and especially Tapu Fini as well as Blissey.
non-Bane Pex, Fini, and Blissey are all nearly indestructable walls, while Bane Pex, Regieleki, and Entei are amazing sweep killers due to Extreme Speed and Priority Haze.
How ever, there is one anti-meta Pokemon I think would make for a great against these Pokemon.
:ss/Toxtricity:
Toxtricity @ Lucarionite
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 176 Def / 80 Spe or 252 Atk / 96 Def / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Bolt Strike
- Gunk Shot
- Coil/Drain Punch
With Toxtricity’s unique type combination allows it to just murder Tapu Fini and Toxapex with Bolt Strike, and is also resists Altarianite Regieleki’s STAB combination as well as Entei’s Pixilate Extreme Speed. It can even dent Slowbronite Blissey with Bolt Strikes and Gunk Shot’s Poison chance, or straight up 2HKOs Blissey after either 1 Shift Gear or 1 Coil, doing 71% minimum to Slowbronite Blissey after 2 boosts.
After Lucarionite and Shift Gear, 80 Speed Toxtricity is capable of outspeeding Altarianite Regieleki with Adamant nature, or 160 Speed to outspeed Glalitite Adamant Regieleki. Attack is Maxed out to maximize the damage dealt from Gunk Strike combo. The remaining EVs go into Defense so that it will minimize the damage from Pixilate Extreme Speed and can even let Toxtricity survive an Explosion from Regieleki with some health for weaker priority.

One glaring weakness of this set is its weakness to Ground types and especially Runerigus and Excadrill. The latter requires a teammate or Drain Punch to even touch, while the former only has to worry about being Poisoned, while it also Spectral Theif your Shift Gear and can priority burn you. So if your team isn’t strong against ground types, you can use Glalitite on Toxtricity with a mix set to beat these Ground types. Just make sure to adjest your EVs to do a reasonable amount of damage to Runerigus and Excadrill with Boomburst, or just use Mega Miss_ I mean Mega Kick (Facade doesn’t work so well when you have 2 status immunities, but is an option) on a physical attacking Glalitite set.
 
Hey guys i've been laddering this meta quite a bit and I would like talk a bit about the VR and some noms I feel would be appropriate based off of my experience playing the ladder.

I believe :Arcanine: is the best mon in the tier and easily S-
This may sound insane to many considering Entei is an S ranked mon, Arcanine is currently sitting in A-, and on the surface you would likely think Entei is just a better Arcanine. However, I believe Arcanine's access to Morning Sun changes matchups in a way that Entei is not capable of. Shore Up Swampert is very popular right now I have been in many situations where the opposing Swampert just assumes it is free to Flip Turn on my Arcanine and that isn't the case when Morning Sun is into play as the Flip Turn does around 40-45, and then they are stuck in a situation where they have to bring in Swampert again to check my Arcanine and have a harder time now since they've already taken damage the turn they came in to Flip Turn before. Because Arcanine is so capable of 1v1ing such a massive portion of the metagame, it is very common for a Pokemon to sacrifice itself to get a big hit on Arcanine but when you can Morning Sun up again later, this isn't near as effective as it would be on Entei or other similar Pokemon. I'm not arguing that Entei shouldn't be S anymore I haven't used or played it enough to know how it compares to Arcanine but I do think it is inferior to Arcanine and potentially A+ because of that alone.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmonsmixandmega-1392217033
Here is a replay that I think does a fantastic job showcasing Arcanine's deadly lategame ability. I was behind almost the entire game but Arcanine singelehandedly brought me back into the endgame by putting him into tough spots over and over again even with Rocks up.

:Regieleki: From S- down to A or B+
I don't see what tools Regieleki gets in this to merit being an S ranked threat. Bolt Strike seems nice but there are so many great viable defensive Grounds in this tier like Swampert, Rhyperior, and Groudon because they now get Shore Up so I think offensive Electrics like Regieleki really suffer in this meta. It can struggle as a hazard remover as well because of extremely frail defenses I definitely don't think it's close to S. Correct me if i'm missing another Electric STAB that makes it way better but if it's just Bolt Strike I don't get it at all.

:Magearna: From A+ to S-
Magearna is really really good. I may even go as far as to say it's broken. It can come in on quite a bit, set up extremely powerful Doom Desires, pivot out, and cause an enormous amount of damage with a few turns. It has multiple viable stones and a more consistent recovery with Moonlight if you want it. It seems like the best support mon in the tier right now and there are a huge amount of breakers that thrive off of Doom Desire and I don't even think people have begun to explore some of the set up combos Magerana has with actual good physical STABs at its disposal now because Doom Desire is so consistent and difficult to deal with. Seems like the second best mon in the tier for me right now.

:Blissey: From S down to A or B+
I'm not really sure why Blissey is so strong in this i've seen people running a lot of Bulky setup on it and I feel those sets are bad. Bulky setup is extremely popular in both regular MnM and SnM if you don't have something for that in general you're going to lose to all kinds of Sablenite Cotton Guard Body press mons or just other Sablenite, Slowbronite, Aggronite, you name it there's mons people will use to try and slowly setup and win. So slow setup Blissey is just another mon on that already extensive list of bulky slow setup mons and the addition of Techno Blast or any other special Normal STABs it gets is far from enough to make it close to good let alone S. If people who put this VR together argue that support sets are why Blissey is in S, I'm in full agreement that support sets are what allows Blissey to shine. Sablenite has a ton of tools to help a team out and I think Ampharosite with Rocks and Toxic is an extremely strong mon from my experience on the ladder. But it's not S especially when you consider competition like Silvally that can do the same thing with a ton more potential moves and there are just a larger number of viable rockers in Stab n Mega in general. Whether it gets Normal STABs Blissey is and always will be a mon crippled by being super passive and that weakness is even more apparent in a meta like SnM where the offensive capabilities are so much higher than normal Stabmons or Mix n Mega.

That's all for now, I may have some other noms in the future and also post my team I used to peak in this thread as well with potentially some other teams I've built but I will say pivot spam with mons like Swampert, Magearna, Corviknight, Lunala, etc with a couple strong breakers seems to be a very easy and effective strategy to use that I want to try myself at some point.
 
I don't see what tools Regieleki gets in this to merit being an S ranked threat. Bolt Strike seems nice but there are so many great viable defensive Grounds in this tier like Swampert, Rhyperior, and Groudon because they now get Shore Up so I think offensive Electrics like Regieleki really suffer in this meta. It can struggle as a hazard remover as well because of extremely frail defenses I definitely don't think it's close to S. Correct me if i'm missing another Electric STAB that makes it way better but if it's just Bolt Strike I don't get it at all.
The thing is that because this Meta can be so momentum heavy with most defensive options requiring you to have them on the field for a turn to Mega Evolve. This is especially true with Red Orb and Blue Orb not being present. With how easy it is for Regieleki to KO valuable targets because it's the fastest E-speed user while having strong STABs, your opponent can often find themselves in a scenario where their Rhyperior or Swampert were simply not allowed to Mega Evolve because when they get on the field, they are then just forced to switch out until an Extreme Speed is able to take them out (and honestly, it makes the Meta way too dependent on what Pokemon you send out in Team Preview because of this, which is why I think Megas should immediately Mega Evolve, Red/Blue Orb should come back, or Pivot moves be limited in some way). Or Regieleki can explode on them so another team mate can come in to wreck havoc. It's a great sweep stopping tool as well, when Pokemon like Garchomp exist, while also threatening Pokemon like Toxapex and Tapu Fini, which is something Entei can't do too well, so it finds its extremely good niche as a momentum tool. Halting your opponent's momentum and creating your own in a meta that values momentum so highly.
Regieleki can also just go for Glalitite, making those Pokemon less of an issue as the cost of a non-STAB Extreme Speed and like the smallest amount of bulk increase.

And speaking of the VR
:ss/Eternatus:
I believe that Eternatus deserves to be at least A rank in this meta. It has so much going for it. With a set of Dragon Energy, Sludge Bomb, Recover, Flamethrower, and either Black Sludge, Choice Specs, or Dragon Fang, Eternatus shreds the top tiers of this Meta, and it can even do huge chunks to Blissey, even Sablenite variants, from sheer power of Max HP Dragon Energy. It's 140 HP with 95 Defenses and typing makes it a great backbone for teams. Its speed is also great, getting the jump on like unboosted Garchomps, Entei, and Kyurem. Not even Magearna is that safe from Eternatus as it is easily KO'd by Flamethrower unless it's something like Specially Defensive Latiasite. Again, since it's an Ubers Pokemon, it is immediately a threat and backbone. You don't need to Mega Evolve a Eternatus for it to safetly pivot into anything.

:ss/Blacephalon:
Blacephalon should definitely move to B rank. Despite resisting Extreme Speed from typical Entei and Regieleki, Blacephalon is so incredibly frail that it will often be KO'd with just a bit of chip and gets walled so easily by tier staple Blissey. Despite the amount of power it's STABs with Lucarionite or Eruptions with Charizardite Y, you won't see that power be used to its fullest extent because it will either be force to do the 0 damage move of switching or the 0 power move of not being alive. And the former is a huge issue, as like I said, momentum is so heavy in this meta that it's very easy to just lose by 1 mistake or some bad luck. If Blacephalon was faster, the -A rank would be justified, but its defensive utility being just immunities to fighting and normal attacks, being so slow, as well as the ever presence of Blissey, Toxapex, and Tapu Fini in the meta, it's really to hard to use and hard to justify an -A rank.
 
:cherubi: MIX AND MEGA LC UPDATE :cherubi:
With Sun being a playstyle that's hard to play against, it was difficult to determine the main culprit. However after playing alot and seeing some battles play, i have determined that Chlorophyll is the broken factor that makes Sun so overwhelming. Just like how Archen forced priority overall, Chlorophyll abusers force very specific priority and a specific way to play to be beaten, and even those aren't guaranteed. Look at these calcs curtesy of Roldski32

228 Atk Buneary @ Lopunnite Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 4-6 (17.3 - 26%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
Possible damage amounts: (4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6)

196+ Atk Tough Claws Timburr @ Aerodactylite Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 6-7 (26 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Possible damage amounts: (6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7)

236 Atk Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 8-12 (34.7 - 52.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 12)

236 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 10-16 (43.4 - 69.5%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 16)

196+ Atk Pixilate Zigzagoon @ Altarianite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 7-9 (30.4 - 39.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 9)

196+ Atk Aerilate Zigzagoon @ Pinsirite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 14-18 (60.8 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 18)

252 Atk Aerilate Elekid @ Pinsirite Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 8-12 (34.7 - 52.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 12)

196 Atk Adaptability Pawniard @ Lucarionite Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Tangela: 10-12 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 12)

This is very difficult to revenge killed and this meta is a more offensive meta with less eviolite than regular LC. So I have made the decision to Ban Chlorophyll effective immediately.

This helps preserve Drought as i don't feel Sun as a weather is broken, helps preserve Houndoominite users since those are so fun to use but not overbearing and preserve Charizardite Y Users so we can use sun for 5 turns. If these are broken then i won't hesitate to ban these but maybe with Chlorophyll being banned, Sun teams won't be as overbearing as before.

I would have to build new sample teams so once those are added i will update. i removed the 2 sun teams

Tagging Think to update the code
 
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Sleep Clause Mod will now be implemented in Almost Any Ability Doubles!

Yes.png


To recap, I decided to hold an AAA Doubles with Sleep Clause on as it's possible to have fast Pokemon such as Gengar and Jolteon spread sleep through No Guard as well as Prankster Spore. While it's not as overwhelming as it sounds with several abilities that can counteract it, it seems it will be too restrictive for teambuilding. Unfortunately, because of the lack of playerbase, the AAA Doubles trial has gone on relatively long. But eventually, it's decided it's time for the public poll on whether or not to implement sleep clause mod in AAA Doubles, and the result is an overwhelming yes.

Also, despite Sleep Clause Mod now implemented, please bring at least one ability that can prevent sleep (Electric/Misty Surge, Magic Bounce, Poison Heal). I noticed that many players did not bring any checks to it even during the trial with the clause in place.

Tagging CringeMeta and Think to implement sleep clause to AAA Doubles from the trial.

Now, moving on to the potentially banworthy threats in Doubles Mashups.

STABmons Doubles
:sm/kartana:
Kartana
It's been abundantly clear that Kartana is the biggest force to be reckoned with in STABmons Doubles with its access to Grass-type moves such as Sleep Powder, Power Whip, and Grav Apple complementing very well with its excellent speed and attack stats that's further backed up by Beast Boost. And as everyone who played Doubles already knows, Rillaboom pairs very well with Kartana as its Grassy Surge ability boosting the power of Grass-type move and replacing Electric and Misty Terrain to enable it to use Sleep Powder as well as providing Fake Out support. While Steel-type move doesn't do much flavor to it compared to Grass-type, it could run Steel Roller if it has Sleep Powder to remove terrain by itself. For its overwhelming qualities, I decided that Kartana might be worth looked upon first.

:ss/rillaboom:
Sleep Powder
While initially, it's decided that it would just be Rillaboom on the watchlist as its the primary abuser of it, it's decided that Sleep Powder should be looked upon instead following the example of Regular STABmons as others managed to make use of it such as the aforementioned Kartana, Tsareena, and Whimsicott in STABmons Doubles. I've made several points in regards to Sleep Powder there before, so I'm not going to repeat it and you probably know what Sleep Powder does. Anyway, expect to see a suspect test for Sleep Powder later down the line (for real this time).

:sm/genesect:
Genesect
In addition to the good old Scarf set, Genesect has some new tricks up its sleeves. With Rage Powder and Sticky Web, Genesect can provide redirection support thanks to its good 71/95/95 bulk and speed with only one, if extreme Fire-type weakness. Other Bug-types can accomplish it, but they aren't as efficient as it. However, I don't think any action should be taken for Genesect just yet and it's best to see it more in action.

There's Quiver Dance, but it's rather clucky as while Genesect has the defensive capability to set QD up, its coverage becomes lackluster with it. Steel+Ice means Water- and Steel-type aren't too threatened by it, Steel-Fire means it can't do much against Water- and Fire-type (and you probably should use Volcarona at that point), Ice+Electric means you won't have STAB. Of course, I might end up eating my words over it.

:ss/dragapult:
Dragapult
One of the most dangerous offensive threats in STABmons Doubles happens to be Dragapult, be it physical or special. While STABmons Doubles does have Incineroar that serves as a check to it, the main thing I want to bring up is Spectral Thief which can steal stats and bypass Substitute. Due to the lack of other relevant users of Spectral Thief, perhaps it's best to look upon Dragapult instead. While it isn't as overwhelming as it was early on, it's clear that Dragapult isn't slowing down anytime soon. Poltergeist isn't too great as it has 90% accuracy and is rendered useless if one consumed Sitrus Berry, so that shouldn't be a concern.

As for AAA Doubles, aside from Spectrier, nothing is on the radar so far. While someone brought up Dazzling/Queenly Majesty, I eventually conclude with it while those abilities do have their benefits such as blocking Fake Out and having a surprise factor, it's not banworthy since there's opportunity cost like not having an offensive ability such as Adaptability or Sheer Force and there is still plenty of speed control to counteract.
 
Some more VR changes for STABmons Mix and Mega

:Pheromosa:
A- -> A+ or S
Pheromosa is easily one of the most daunting Pokemon to face in this entire Metagame. Like I have said many times in this thread, momentum is huge in this Metagame, and Pheromosa is arguably one of, if not the biggest contributing factor to that.
If your opponent has Pheromosa with a strong special attacker and a strong ground type, you can not Mega Evolve any of your Pokemon on the first turn.
Typically, you will be forced to use Sablenite Blissey or something to handle the Special Attackers while also handling the hazards that they'll set first turn, which works the vast majority of the time, but in Pheromosa's case, the key moves that can determine if you win or lose the match are all dependent on whether or not Pheromosa is sent out first turn, and whether or not Pheromosa uses U-turn or some coverage you won't know about because Pheromosa can use both sides of the attacking spectrum. If you send out your Blissey so that it will have the most bulk it can to fight the strong special attacker, hazards, and status, you could be met with Pheromosa, where there are 2 options. Flee to a teammate and hope they don't take too much damage from Close Combat or Pheromosa doesn't U-turn, or stay in and hope your Blissey isn't sacked turn 1.
Yeah, you don't have to use Blissey, as you can use Tapu Fini, Toxapex, Corviknight, ect. as your Sablenite user, and you can lead with Entei or Regieleki to punish Pheromosa. However, that's if your opponent sends out a strong Special Attacker, or sends out a bulky and decently hard hitting Ground type, it's a similar problem, but maybe without the pivot move on that strong special attacker and the strong ground type having hazards.
While that is just part of the game, Pheromosa makes it especially hard on your opponent when it has the third strongest U-turn in the game, only being slightly outdamaged by Buzzwole and Download Boosted Genesect, which is also before Mega Evolving as well. Pheromosa is also the 3rd fastest available Pokemon in the game, so your options are very limited in this meta.
Obviously, because of its frailty, Pheromosa needs to be played well and Extreme Speed is just common regardless of its presence. It also needs a teammate like Hippowdon and some breaker for Tapexknight that preferably has its own pivot move as well. It's definitely one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the meta by sheer presence alone.

:Zamazenta:
C -> B- and add some more Mega Stones
Being one of the few Ubers to be allowed to Mega Evolve and additionally get the move that would have been Zamazenta's bread and butter, Zamazenta deserve some more credit in this Meta that it normally doesn't get, and add the stones I'll talk about to viable items.
Unlike other Fairy weak sweepers like Dracovish and Dracozolt, Zamazenta is not perfectly fine handling Altarianite Regieleki, Entei, and Zydog with its sweeping sets involving Bulk Up and Iron Defense. With the massive 70 Base bonus to Defense, Zamazenta has one of the strongest Body Press in the game (although, anything with Lopunnite/Mewtwonite X with more than 175 Def will technically be stronger when not factoring in Dauntless Shield, and doing so means you use said Mega Stone on a Body Press Pokemon). Because of this, when Zamazenta uses Iron Defense, it hits hard and can take a hit extremely well. You also get the benefit of no crits just bypassing your defense boosts. You will need some support against Ghost types, as Zamazenta's best option is Crunch, and it can't do much against prankster topsy-turvy or haze.
However, with Sablenite, Zamazenta can actually handle prankster topsy turvy and most other status moves as well, at the cost of some speed and physical defense. It's also very much appreciated for Zamazenta since it can struggle with status with Rest being its only healing move.

:toxtricity:
B- -> B or B+
Toxtricity is no joke in this metagame. As good as the Special sets are, the physical sets are even better imo. Toxtricity is probably the most unique set up sweeper in the meta. Having natural access to Shift Gear, having Coil, having natural resistance to the ever present Pixilate Extreme Speed, resisting Doom Desire, can't be poisoned, can't be paralyzed, gains access to Bolt Strike, and because most people expect something like Glalitite Boomburst, they'll switch into Blissey or some other specially defensive wall. This mind game works wonders as often you'll get both a Shift Gear and Coil if you have them. After that, between Lucarionite doing disgusting amounts of damage with your STABs, Pinsirite/Glalitite letting you use Mega Kick for bulky ground types, and possibly the one genuine use for Latiosite to avoid ground moves without compromising Poison STAB. Even with just Gunk Shot, Toxtricity does a surprisingly large amount of damage against bulky ground types, especially with Lucarionite. It is also not too uncommon for Toxtricity to gave the 250 Spe, which makes it faster enough to outspeed Adamant Regieleki after a Shift Gear, a bench mark made more notable given the lack of Choice Scarf in this Metagame.

:Entei:
S -> S+
Entei is without a doubt the most influential Pokemon in this Metagame by far. With Dragonite, Rayquaza, and Genesect being unable to Mega Evolve, Entei is by far the strongest Extreme Speed user. Both literally and in a more general sense. The existence of STAB E-speed on a Pokemon with such high attack, a partial intimidate immunity, and its coverage can't be described with words how influential it is. Even with things like prankster Topsy-Turvy and prankster Haze, Altarianite Entei is easily the biggest factor of determining how viable a set up sweeper is. Every single team needs to prepare for Entei in some way, and with moves like Fire Lash, Sacred Fire, and Stone Edge, need to pull off band-aids when that bulky Ground type is burned or that Ho-oh just dies suddenly to Stone Miss. Hell, I often find myself in scenarios where the only switch-in I have to Entei is another Entei because there really is no such thing as a perfect counter to this thing. I don't even thing there even is a single counter given to Entei. The only thing that really makes it so Entei isn't ban worth is the hazard weakness (in a metagame where Rapid Spin Sablenite Blissey exists mind you), a lack of recovery, and not KOing everything on sight.

:Dracovish: & :Dracozolt:
C -> UR
As appetizing as it sounds to have Mega Dracovish and Mega Dracozolt on your team, they unfortunately are not worth it. The prevalence of Entei and Regieleki is too much for them to be viable. I have tried using them, but it's pretty much impossible to use Dragon Dance sets, and it was always way too dangerous to ever set up a few times. Even with Fishious Rend and Bolt Beak with Sharpedonite, they are surprisingly weak given the other moves they have. You might as well just use Garchomp since Scizorite will boosts both of its STABs and has naturally higher stats. Speaking of which.

:Garchomp:
S -> A
Garchomp in this meta is pretty overrated. Like with the Draco Fossils, Garchomp is just way too vulnerable to being shutdown by priority. Garchomp is also almost always shutdown by Litiasite Magearna and either Corviknight stones. So long as they stay in the game, all Garchomp can do is block Bolt Strikes if Regieleki managed to run out of Extreme Speeds. It is a bulky ground with Sablenite, but a bulky ground x4 weak to Ice and x2 weak to fairy and that means you aren't using Sablenite on something else. There are even better bulky grounds too. Swampert has Flip Turn and Scald, Rhyperior has better physical bulk and Diamond Storm, Groudon doesn't need to Mega Evolve, has P-blades, and can set sun, Hippowdon is much bulkier, Runerigus can steal stat boosts with Spectral Thief and burn opponents, and Excadrill is neutral to Ice, resists Fairy, has Anchor Shot, and has mold breaker pre-evolution.
However, because Garchomp can fill many roles, it can sometimes not be predictable in what it does, so it still stays in a high spot on the VR.

:Calyrex-Ice:
UR -> B+
{I will need to gather some replays showing of Calyrex-I and will make a more detailed post, additionally need to figure out where to put Calyrex-I, but with the STABmons mechanics, Calyrex-I is definitely more viable here than regular Mix and Mega. I am also just way too tired to post any longer.}
Edit: So I got the replay showing off Caltrex-I, the Choice Band variant, and you can see how insane it is. It's STAB Glacial Lance is one of the hardest hitting moves in the game, and it has excellent bulk to actually deal out that damage.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-1396252914-8zlc41dw5gfzunr3oboj880sb4i6mlrpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-1396241082-frc3y8fvcm8f1j88xvusssz05ieantqpw
Why Calyrex-I fits nicely in B+ rank is that it is somewhat hard to use, but very rewarding when you get it on the field against a team with average bulk. Sablenite Blissey is pretty much essential for Calyrex-I or something similar like Sablenite Jirachi or Sablenite Swampert. Being able to bring in Calyrex-I at full health can often mean the opponent loses 1 or 2 Pokemon depending on their team composition. With that 165 Atk, CB, and Ice/Ghost/Grass/Ground coverage, you'll be hard pressed to find a Pokemon that likes switching into Calyrex-I. Because of its bulk, it's actually pretty hard to take down Calyrex-I with even super effective coverage. However with CB sets that don't use Synthesis or Sap Strength, Calyrex-I can only come in so much since there is a limit to how much punishment it can take without investment. It may have bulk that is pretty close to 99% Lugia, but it isn't invincible and it's defensive typing it's too great. Despite this, this makes Calyrex-I a great offense breaker since those teams will typically lack Pokemon such a Fini and Pex.
However, like in a previous post, CB isn't the only set Calyrex-I can use. Thanks to its Shadow and Base forms, Calyrex-I gets all Grass and Ghost moves. This makes Calyrex-I's defensive sets possible now that it has access to Synthesis, Sap Strength, Jungle Healing, Haze, Spectral Thief, and Teleport, in addition to Aromatherapy that it already has.
That is also not including the buffed Body Press set, which now not only has direct healing, but also Cotton Guard. If you really wanted to, you could go Cotton Guard, Amnesia, Jungle Healing, and Stored Power (obviously needing a lot of support to beat Dark types, and is just a huge meme).
It's not A rank material, due to its high maintenance with Stealth Rock and not so great defensive typing, but it can be very diverse in what it can do and what teams it can fit on. If your team needs a backbone, but can pack a punch and has a deep movepool, try Calyrex-I out.
 
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Zamazenta Glitch.PNG

So I was about to go use a new team, and I see that Zamazenta-Crowned is unable to learn Anchor Shot for some reason. If this a change in the Meta or just a bug?
Also you can take a look at some of my sets here.
 
View attachment 364598
So I was about to go use a new team, and I see that Zamazenta-Crowned is unable to learn Anchor Shot for some reason. If this a change in the Meta or just a bug?
Also you can take a look at some of my sets here.
IIRC there was a PR change recently in STABmons that made the Crowned forms unable to learn Steel moves as they are in-battle only, following the rules that STAB moves are "learned" like move tutors outside of battle.
 
IIRC there was a PR change recently in STABmons that made the Crowned forms unable to learn Steel moves as they are in-battle only, following the rules that STAB moves are "learned" like move tutors outside of battle.
Thank you.
At least knowing that, I think I’ll stick with something like Sablenite Zamazenta instead of Rusted Shield.
 
So I haven’t done much testing outside of with myself, (This OMM is not very popular unfortunately. :blobsad:) but I have decided to try out Balanced Hackmons + The Loser’s Game. I call it Balanced Loser bc of Pure Loser but that’s probably bad. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Here’s some Abilities that seem great at first glance. (Note that Moves are mentioned briefly but you do get a good look at what they do.)
:SS/Impidimp: Prankster
Prankster has a plethora of Utility by being able to outspeed fast Pokémon that have revealed their Abilities, allowing for very annoying Status Moves like Taunt, Imprison, or Encore. This does fall short against Magic Bounce and Dark Types, but the extra Speed Control it can provide does help a bit.

:SS/Hatterene: :SS/Xatu: Magic Bounce
Magic Bounce is as useful as always. Being able to bounce back Moves like Taunt and Encore is a huge plus. Counterplay is needed for sure.

:SS/Excadrill: :SS/Zekrom: :SS/Reshiram: Mold Breaker and the likes
This is useful in ignoring Magic Bounce. Imo a necessity to prevent Magic Bounce from setting up for free.

:SS/Accelgor: Sticky Hold
While probably not as splashable, it makes the user able to ignore Item removal and thus can wear itself down much more effectively.

:SS/Tapu Lele: :SS/Indeedee: :SS/Indeedee-F: Psychic Surge
Similar to Sticky Hold, it’s less splashable indeed however it allows the user to block Priority for Teammates rather than just itself.

:SS/Comfey: Triage
Triage is worse than Prankster outside of being pretty clutch in specific situations and allows you to slow down Prankster Clang / Belly Drum / Curse users, which can be a pain end game.

There’s more fs but I don’t wanna clog up the Thread with this post.

Btw Team dump but never done enough testing seems like enough tho
:dragapult: Dragapult (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Curse
- Substitute
- Parting Shot

:Regieleki: Regieleki @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Clangorous Soul
- Knock Off

:Calyrex-Shadow: Calyrex-Shadow @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Imprison
- Substitute
- Belly Drum

:Ninjask: Ninjask (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Defog
- Substitute
- Heal Pulse

:Weavile: Weavile (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 6 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Switcheroo
- Clangorous Soul

:Accelgor: Accelgor (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Triage / Mold Breaker / Prankster
EVs: 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Imprison
- Floral Healing
- Clangorous Soul

Code:
Tour code:
/tour new [Gen 8] The Loser's Game, elim,,,[Gen 8] Balanced Loser
/tour rules !Obtainable,-SteelBeam,-Mind Blown,+Sandshrew-Alola,-NeutralizingGas,-WimpOut,-EmergencyExit,
-ShadowTag,-ArenaTrap (There’s a line break between Shadow Tag and Emergency Exit so be careful of that.)
 
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STABmons Doubles will be suspect testing Sleep Powder!
:ss/rillaboom: :ss/kartana: :ss/tsareena:

With Spore being restricted in STABmons Doubles, Sleep Powder has become the go-to move for inflicting sleep and is dominating in the format. The main user of Sleep Powder is Rillaboom, which possesses Fake Out and U-turn for momentum support and Grassy Surge to override other terrains. Other Sleep Powder users exist that bring different utilities to the table as well such as Kartana that possesses great speed and may remove terrain with Steel Roller, Tsareena blocks priority with Queenly Majesty and Whimsicott who has priority Sleep Powder with Prankster (rip ludicolo). Sleep Powder also benefitted from the lack of sleep clause in STABmons Doubles, allowing more than 2 Pokemon to be falling asleep by it at a time.

Sleep Powder isn't without any downside, its 75% accuracy means that it won't land at crucial moments and Grass-types and Safety Goggles are immune to Powder moves, as well as Electric and Misty Terrain prevents grounded Pokemon from falling asleep, though the existence of Rillaboom makes those terrains relatively difficult to check it with Tapu Koko and Tapu Fini hate dealing against Rillaboom.

While one may ask why not quick ban Sleep Powder instead, we could do that, but I want more activity for STABmons Double (hopefully it won't blow in my face). Furthermore, there's no plan on restricting sleep such as implementing a sleep clause or banning sleep as a whole since Sleep Powder seems like the major problem and I do not think it's neccessary.

Sleep Powder will be allowed in the suspect test and will last until 30th August, Monday! You only need to win at least 1 suspect tournament to have a voting requirement.

Also, Doubles OU is suspect testing Kartana. In case it gets banned, the council vote for Kartana will act as a unban instead.
 
You know, I’d like to say Linoone in SNM isn’t complete hot garbage, well that’s because it isn’t hot garbage. It’s just garbage
:ss/linoone:
Linoone @ Lopunnite
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Substitute/Endure
- Extreme Speed
- Flail
Ever since Gen 3, Linoone has been an all or nothing, high skill floor, high risk, and high maintenance Pokemon. There is no exception in STABmons Mix and Mega.
This set utilitizes the fact that Linoone is the only Pokemon in the game, besides its pre-evolution, Smeargle, and pre-Gen 6 Togekiss, to have natural STAB on Extreme Speed, and is the only Pokemon with the combination of Belly Drum and Extreme Speed. With Lopunnite, Linoone doesn’t really need to worry about Ghost types after getting a Belly Drum off. +6 STAB Extreme Speed and a Ghost immunity, there is no worry of Spectral Thief, Prankster Haze, and Prankster Topsy-Turvy, which is actually a huge bonus as a set up sweeper. This leaves Linoone with 4 other issues after successfully pulling a Belly Drum off.
Rock types
Steel types
Regieleki
Tapu Lele/Psychic Terrain
For Rock and Steel types, the solution is that Linoone can simply run Flail and hope to get to 1 HP either by Endure (to help guarantee being at 1 HP in case you get chipped by even a little) or Substitute (to block status and give Linoone 1 extra hit). A max power Flail is actually so strong it a more than likely chance of OHKO Sablenite Corviknight.
+6 252+ Atk Lopunnite Linoone Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Corviknight: 376-443 (94 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
So if you can get your opponent to bring you down to 1 HP, the only thing that can wall it would be a Rock/Steel type.
However, there is still a roadblock in Regieleki and Tapu Lele. Regieleki has its own Extreme Speed while being faster and Tapu Lele has a block to all priority.
In the case of Linoone itself, there is nothing it can do against them. However, there is still hope and it involves the support Linoone needs.
In order for Linoone to have a shot against these 2, ironically, Sticky Web support is required for Linoone’s success, as after Lopunnite, Linoone will be faster when those 2 are at -1. This also helps Linoone against follow up Pokemon when Tapu Lele faints with Psychic Terrain still up.
It goes without saying that Linoone needs more than just Sticky Webs to even have a chance to sweep. It’s much frailer now that everything has 130+ offenses.
To remedy this, Screen users are a requirement and that means a non-Uber without a Mega Stone to keep Screens up for longer with Light Clay. Fortunately, Grimmsnarl gets both and with its Dark typing, also gets Memento and Taunt, which is an excellent combination for Pokemon with risky set up.
Linoone also needs a team with lots of momentum tools as to help keep up Sticky Webs and other hazards up as well. If Sticky Webs are removed while your opponent has Regieleki or Tapu Lele, Linoone is effectively dead weight.
You will also need that momentum to get Linoone in against a more passive Pokemon that preferrably lacks, Scald, Toxic, or Will-o-wisp.
You’ll also have to not set up against Sand or Hail if you need to use Flail.
So yeah, Linoone needs ton of support to work for a sweep that can fail, but it’s strengths are really strong and if you do manage to get both Belly Drum and 1 HP with Webs up, you pretty much auto-win on the spot vs the vast majority of teams.
 

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