Sticky Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

Some one already did them a few pages back. I'll edit this with a link to it when I find it but iif I remeber it right it was base 120 to the majority of the dex, and base 100 to the majority of Ubers. only the heaviest of the heavy (like heavy metal Aggron or Ghiratina) were giving off low BP

EDIT: here they are looks like I misspoke on the "majority of Ubers" but it's not like a base 40 move on them either.

So Primal Groudon has quite some focus on its weight. From the official site: "Goudon has long been the heaviest of all known Pokémon. With its Primal Reversion, it smashes that record to pieces!" What if they're actually gonna act on that and give it Heat Crash in-game? With a weight of 999,7 kg here is what pokemon seen in ubers it would hit for what base power (only mega sableye's weight is not known yet):


120 = <199,94: every mega and their base form that is not tyranitar, gyarados or aggron (yes including mewtwo, blaziken, the lati's, sceptile, swampert and diancie), landorus(-t), darkrai, deoxys (all), ho-oh (barely), klefki, genesect, sylveon, thundurus(-t), Wobbuffet, Aegislash, Bronzong, Excadrill, ferrothorn, forretress, gliscor, shaymin (both), Whimsicott, blissey, chansey, clefable, cloyster, Quagsire, sableye, gothitelle, jirachi, shuckle, skarmory, smeargle, amoonguss, ditto, cresselia, gastrodon, latias, latios, talonflame, greninja, salamence, espeon, azumarill, mew, florges, tornadus(-t), victini, manaphy, most other things.

100 = 199,94 - 249,92: xerneas, yveltal, lugia, rayquaza, tyranitar, scolipede (barely), gyarados, dragonite

80 = 249,93 - 333,23: arceus (all), mega tyranitar, hippowdon, kyurem (all), mega gyarados, terrakion, reshiram (barely), rhyperior, zygarde

60 = 333,24 - 499,85: (primal) kyogre, palkia (barely), zekrom, heatran (immune), (mega) aggron, bronzong (with heavy metal)

40 = 499,85>: dialga, (primal) groudon, giratina (both), aggron (with heavy metal), avalugg (new groudon counter lol), metagross (for those of you hoping for a viable mega)

So yes I'm quite hoping they'll give it heat crash.

 

[Kurona]

INB4 Trollfreak gives Groudon Heavy Slam

 

[xfirecharmer]

Some one already did them a few pages back. I'll edit this with a link to it when I find it but iif I remeber it right it was base 120 to the majority of the dex, and base 100 to the majority of Ubers. only the heaviest of the heavy (like heavy metal Aggron or Ghiratina) were giving off low BP

I reposted it a few comments back. I'll type up some potential damage calculations. I don't know if I should retype Groudon to Ground/Fire for STAB damage calc purposes because we're 100% confirmed on that.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

So here's something I haven't seen anybody bring up.

If there's one XY Pokemon that is in line for a new form/ a mega/ hell even a possible primal regression It's Zygarde. The poor thing is outclassed by Garchomp in most every way. And well, based on how weak it is and based on the pattern since gen IV it's really easy to expect it'll come out of the second half of this gen with some sort of insane new form. Diance is getting its Mega in ORAS so perhaps Zygarde will be getting its dues as well.

What that form will be and how it'll work I don't know. But XYZ are the most similar to Hoenn's trio of all legendary groups IMO. Not just in coloring or in the fact that the two version exclusives posse competing powers while the 3rd keeps them in balance, but also in that they feel more like "Natural World Behemoths" then they do "Dragon Gods" So.... did Zygarde have tons more power back when the world was afloat with natural energy? Perhaps, I think everyone expects a Primal Rayquaza but I think Zygarde is an ok candidate for a Primal form as well, and if not that it's like pretty certain it'll get a new form in some way.

 

[Tory]

Am I the only one got the 502 Bad Gateway page?

Anyway, I am not sure if anyone bring up this yet but... InB4 Primal Groudon & Primal Kyogre new signature moves are not only attacks, but also the secondary effect will submit perm sun and rain to outclass Air Lock.

 

[Kurona]

So here's something I haven't seen anybody bring up.

If there's one XY Pokemon that is in line for a new form/ a mega/ hell even a possible primal regression It's Zygarde. The poor thing is outclassed by Garchomp in most every way. And well, based on how weak it is and based on the pattern since gen IV it's really easy to expect it'll come out of the second half of this gen with some sort of insane new form. Diance is getting its Mega in ORAS so perhaps Zygarde will be getting its dues as well.

What that form will be and how it'll work I don't know. But XYZ are the most similar to Hoenn's trio of all legendary groups IMO. Not just in coloring or in the fact that the two version exclusives posse competing powers while the 3rd keeps them in balance, but also in that they feel more like "Natural World Behemoths" then they do "Dragon Gods" So.... did Zygarde have tons more power back when the world was afloat with natural energy? Perhaps, I think everyone expects a Primal Rayquaza but I think Zygarde is an ok candidate for a Primal form as well, and if not that it's like pretty certain it'll get a new form in some way.

Uh... in ORAS? I'm pretty sure they'd be saving that for Z/X2Y2/XZYZ/whatever

Am I the only one got the 502 Bad Gateway page?

Every day. Every. Single. Day.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

There's a lot of ways the new forms could have bad affects on the uber meta game. The "boosts" being the return of perma weather is a terrible thought, but so is 5 or 8 turns of irremovable weather. Giving the new forms powerful new moves, and potentially updating them with older ones like heat crash scares me. Whatever happens, GF is literally playing with fire here and will have their work cut out for them to keep these guys balanced.

On the other hand, I like the idea of Xerneas having a reliable check, so this could work out very well.

And, assuming Rayray gets a new regression form, how would Air Lock get boosted? Only being able to deal with the other new boosted abilities seems niche and kinda boring, so I'd avoid that, but what else can it be?

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

Uh... in ORAS? I'm pretty sure they'd be saving that for Z/X2Y2/XZYZ/whatever

Yeah I would think so too. Except that there's no real grantee that the games you listed are coming out. Shaymin and similar examples didn't get their new forms in HGSS/other remake yet Diance is getting it's new form in ORAS. If a Z or whatever version is coming out someday then yeah, that's when Zygarde will get it's new form. But given how weird Gen VI is relative to other gens (and the pattern of the 3rd/4th game(s) coming out before remakes) I don't think it's totally unreasonable to assume that ORAS will be the 2nd half of this gen and there is no Z version. So all the Pokemon (Diance ,Zygarde, etc.) from gen VI in line for second half of the gen form additions will get them in ORAS. I mean I'm not saying there won't be a Z later or something. But if there isn't gonna be, Zygarde should be getting a new form in these games.

I brought it up because my gut feeling is ORAS is it for Gen VI and then we'll move onto VII. It's not like my gut feeling amounts to much but, you know... To be honest, whether or not Zygarde gets a new form in this game is like a 99% accurate indicator of whether or not there will be a Z game.

 

[RNGnoob]

Other than Xerneas, Blissey/Chansey and Ho-oh what pokemon would a water type psysrike help against?

 

[Tory]

Yeah I would think so too. Except that there's no real grantee that the games you listed are coming out. Shaymin and similar examples didn't get itheir new forms in HGSS/other remake yet Diance is getting it's new form in ORAS. If a Z or whatever version is coming out someday then yeah, that's when Zygarde will get it's new form. But given how weird Gen VI is relative to other gens (and the pattern of the 3rd/4th game(s) coming out before remakes) I don't think it's totally unreasonable to assume that ORAS will be the 2nd half of this gen and there is no Z version. So all the Pokemon (Diance ,Zygarde, etc.) from gen VI in line for second half of the gen form additions will get them in ORAS. I mean I'm not saying there won't be a Z later or something. But if there isn't gonna be Zygarde should be getting a new form in these games.

Since Thousand Arrows & Thousand Waves were revealed by mistake. I believe those are Zygarde's moves and there will be two games again. I said the same thing about when I first saw Xerneas, Yveltal & Zygarde, they remind me of the three weather trio of Hoenn (by the colors). Since Primal Groudon & Primal Kyogre are going to be in OR/AS, they might skip Rayquaza and use two Primal forms on Zygarde.

 

[Ranger Mike]

Am I the only one praying for a knock off tutor?

 

[Rotosect]

Am I the only one praying for a knock off tutor?

Yes you are.
The BL tier banlist doesn't need to get any larger.

 

[Rilan]

And, assuming Rayray gets a new regression form, how would Air Lock get boosted? Only being able to deal with the other new boosted abilities seems niche and kinda boring, so I'd avoid that, but what else can it be?

An improved Air Lock would probably work like Mist but the new ability might allow weather from being re-applied or just have no effect as Rayquaza switches out for a few turns. Regenerator and Natural Cure have similar requirements to activate so maybe it's not too farfetched. I can't see the Primal Forms of the Weather Trio getting any old abilities that work well with the weather, otherwise they might be too tough to take down, at least online. If Air Lock isn't revamped, Rayquaza would probably get an ability that is unbiased when it comes to attacking since it's generally considered the Mixed Pokémon of the trio (That Dragon Dance though). So no Dry Skin or Moxie. Looking at the old abilities list Sheer Force is the only thing that I can think of that is not shared with any Megas that somewhat makes sense flavor wise. That may be too powerful, the Mega Forms of Mewtwo got only decent abilities compared to the other Megas so Gamefreak might slap Pressure on this guy and call it a day.

 

[Prophet]

And, assuming Rayray gets a new regression form, how would Air Lock get boosted? Only being able to deal with the other new boosted abilities seems niche and kinda boring, so I'd avoid that, but what else can it be?

Aerilate and watch everything die to STAB ES with an additional 30% boost and coverage moves.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Aerilate and watch everything die to STAB ES with an additional 30% boost and coverage moves.

lol, I wish

An improved Air Lock would probably work like Mist but the new ability might allow weather from being re-applied or just have no effect as Rayquaza switches out for a few turns. Regenerator and Natural Cure have similar requirements to activate so maybe it's not too farfetched. I can't see the Primal Forms of the Weather Trio getting any old abilities that work well with the weather, otherwise they might be too tough to take down, at least online. If Air Lock isn't revamped, Rayquaza would probably get an ability that is unbiased when it comes to attacking since it's generally considered the Mixed Pokémon of the trio (That Dragon Dance though). So no Dry Skin or Moxie. Looking at the old abilities list Sheer Force is the only thing that I can think of that is not shared with any Megas that somewhat makes sense flavor wise. That may be too powerful, the Mega Forms of Mewtwo got only decent abilities compared to the other Megas so Gamefreak might slap Pressure on this guy and call it a day.

But when you think about it, if the weather abilities get boosted to either be A) permanent again, or B) immune to removal, Air lock will either be necessary to remove the permanent weather, or boosted to be able to beat the irremovable weather somehow. No matter what happens, non-weather related abilities just don't make much sense, and while they'd be cool, I don't see them happening.

 

[amzaneok]

Actually I think the wording was that it's ability would get stronger not that it's ability would make it stronger.

I just double checked to make sure and this is the exact wording. "And it appears that its Ability might get a boost!"

Interesting. It still confirms that new abilities will be released and implemented then, no? Nobody has found any abilities for Kyogre and Groudon through data mining X and Y, to my knowledge.

 

[Noel Lopunny]

Interesting. It still confirms that new abilities will be released and implemented then, no? Nobody has found any abilities for Kyogre and Groudon through data mining X and Y, to my knowledge.

Nobody has found Sablite* or Diancite in X/Y either.

 

[Codraroll]

Nobody has found Sablite* or Diancite in X/Y either.

Just as nobody found Gracidea Flowers in D/P or DNA Splicers in B/W. They aren't strictly necessary to have in the base game for the new Pokémon form to be compatible, nor were they ever intended to be. Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye will be ORAS exclusive like so many other formes were exclusive to sequel games before them. They are a selling point, to make kids "ditch" XY and pick up the new games instead, if they want to play with all the new toys. It arguably started with Giratina-O, and the formula has made GameFreak tons of money since then.

 

[Noel Lopunny]

It might be me forgetting, but was Steven's role in R/S/E explicitly mentioned? If not, this is a cool way to take advantage of that ambiguity left from the older games.

Just as nobody found Gracidea Flowers in D/P or DNA Splicers in B/W. They aren't strictly necessary to have in the base game for the new Pokémon form to be compatible, nor were they ever intended to be. Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye will be ORAS exclusive like so many other formes were exclusive to sequel games before them. They are a selling point, to make kids "ditch" XY and pick up the new games instead, if they want to play with all the new toys. It arguably started with Giratina-O, and the formula has made GameFreak tons of money since then.

Fair enough. Though I'd like to see the two games communicate seamlessly together. But the only people who know just how compatable they can make it are GF themselves.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

I wish an official source would come out and tell us just one of the new abilities or one of the new moves (which despite them not "officially" saying yet they are really hinting there will be, regardless of what is or isn't in the code of any games) so that we could stop having this same discussion over and over....

 

[Noel Lopunny]

I wish an official source would come out and tell us just one of the new abilities or one of the new moves (which despite them not "officially" saying yet they are really hinting there will be, regardless of what is or isn't in the code of any games) so that we could stop having this same discussion over and over....

Someone somewhere is using Encore on this thread.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

It's probably a Lopunny :p lol

 

[Gabe]

Not praying for any particular tutor. Just want a lot of pokemon to get easy changes that will make them better. Sceptile with Growth, Tyrantrum with Outrage/Rock Head released, Goodra with recover, etc.

 

[Gabe]

>recover tutor
o-oh god no

I don't mean a tutor. Changes in a pokemon's level-up move pool have happened many times.

 

[Noel Lopunny]

>recover tutor
o-oh god no

Hey, wish Chancey/Blissey were a thing in gen 3.... :)