Yessir, that would be the idea.
Maybe we could make it so that we can't ban pokemon, if it gets a little TOO crazy.
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Ladder ORAS 1v1 [3v3 Team Preview]
- Thread starter The Immortal
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Yessir, that would be the idea.
Maybe we could make it so that we can't ban pokemon, if it gets a little TOO crazy.
Well we have 20 mon's ranked viably at A- and up. So that could be the basis of how difficult we want the tour to be. Less then that it could still be too easy, more would make it more difficult.
I have always wanted to post about this topic but never found time, and space between discussions to really bring up this topic. Now that some discussions have died down it's time to address this issue. For this time's discussion the topic will be Accuracy Reducing Moves and Sleep. What do you think of such moves? Do you think they favor the user? And more importantly, are they broken enough to justify a ban?
I'll post my thoughts later, but I wanna read about what everyone think first.
I'll post my thoughts later, but I wanna read about what everyone think first.
Although I haven't seen it used much, Flash can be incredibly annoying. I think it should be noted that Accuracy Reducing moves and Evasion Boosting moves are effectively the same in this metagame, so if one is banned under Evasion Clause it makes sense for the other to be banned. I also find that generally, these stratagies have a <50% chance of working, which makes me view them in the same light as things like OHKO moves - they should be banned due to being uncompetitive and sometimes allowing worse players to beat better players.
Sleep is something I only really see on Mega Venusaur, and honestly doesn't seem broken to me. The fact that it can be played around via Substitute, as well as the fact that even if it does hit, you haven't yet outright lost, means that I've never found it to be particularly bad to play against.
Sleep is something I only really see on Mega Venusaur, and honestly doesn't seem broken to me. The fact that it can be played around via Substitute, as well as the fact that even if it does hit, you haven't yet outright lost, means that I've never found it to be particularly bad to play against.
This is a fair point. Only differences are that Substitute blocks Accuracy Reducing moves, and that Accuracy Reducing moves are limited to 1 stage drops only whereas there are Evasion Boosting moves with 2 stage increases. Is that a big enough difference to keep it unbanned? Possibly.
They're not particularly broken as much as they are just classifiably uncompetitive, unless that's what you meant.
For accuracy dropping strategies/moves, let's take a look at the best/most popular users of the moves:
After looking through the viability rankings and theorymonning potential sets, I've concluded that all accuracy dropping strategies are best used on pokemon that can set up defensively or weaken damage taken from the opponent. The best pokemon for this job include: Deoxys-Defense, Slowbro-Mega, Chansey, Venusaur-Mega, Mew, Cresselia, Dusclops/Dusknoir and potentially Aggron-Mega/Steelix-Mega.
The main thing that all of these pokemon have in common when using accuracy-dropping strategies is that it's intended for the function of pp stalling an opponent until they eventually Struggle themselves to death. Now, what are some threats to pp stall or stall in general? There's Taunt, Porygon-Z (Uproar negates Rest and Trick takes out any defensive pokemon that isn't prepared for it), Hyper-offensive/Offensive setup pokemon in general, and Toxic for the unfortunate souls that think they can run pp stall without running Rest. That being said, those things generally negate the normal stall that we're adjusted to from all the regular 6v6 metas and tiers, BUT in 1v1, the case is different, since there are no full teams to support either pokemon, hyper pp stall IS in fact a legitimate strategy, since the pokemon on the receiving end can't switch out to undo the drops and other effects, which in turn means that stall-oriented pokemon no longer need to run some kind of attack to maintain viability, which gives them the move space they need to handle only the things that directly threaten them, through any means possible.
(I kinda went off on a tangent at the end of this paragraph to simply explain that 1v1 has incredibly different qualities from pretty much every other way of playing on Showdown, and as such, we can't really draw comparisons from any other meta/tier to explain it, other than tiering methods for which pokemon are used more commonly than others.)
Something we need to take into consideration here is, what makes accuracy setup any different from offensive/defensive setup? The obvious answer to this question is that, instead of improving or weakening the amount of damage an attack deals, accuracy setup improves the user's chances of taking no damage from an attack at all, as well as accuracy not having any pokemon-oriented statistic associated with it; instead, accuracy is based off of the move's statistics.
Despite being based on completely different things, are they still really that different? In a lot of cases, there really are no differences between offensive setups and accuracy setups, if your opponent allows you to get to +6 Attack, there is likely no way that they will be able to survive an attack, just as if your opponent allows you to drop their accuracy to -6, there is little chance that they will even be able to touch you.
As for the other suspected strategy, there are already a limited number of Sleep users to even use the strategy, the only notable ones being: Smeargle, Venusaur-Mega, Breloom, any pokemon that appears from doing [/ds all, sleep powder, leech seed], and less accurate sleep users such as Gengar-Mega, Gardevoir-Mega, Whimsicott, Altaria-Mega, Mawile-Mega, and Sylveon.
For any of the pokemon that rely on less accurate Sleep moves (Hypnosis, Grasswhistle, Sing), the entire outcome of the match is likely decided on whether the move hits or not, since most of the less accurate sleep users only need 1 safe turn to safely knock out the opponent or guarantee the win, which ultimately leaves the match being decided on what is basically a slightly biased coinflip.
As for any SubSeed Sleep users, mostly all they need to win is be faster than the opponent and hope they don't have any moves that go through Substitute. This practice ultimately takes the entire battle out of the hands of the player using the slower pokemon, since they often can do little against their opponent other than try to counteract the strategy by running Taunt on whatever pokemon they can and hope that they aren't asleep for long enough for it to be wasted.
Sleep Powder on Venusaur acts as one of the only ways it can safely defend itself against most of the offense-oriented pokemon of 1v1, since a majority of them are capable of knocking it out in a couple of hits. What makes this particular pokemon different is that it generally needs two turns to safely settle itself into an almost-guaranteed win, just as Smeargle does. Smeargle, while also needing two turns of sleep to win, is almost an opposite to Venusaur, since it lacks the bulk to stand up to most attacks that are thrown its way, so instead, it relies on being faster than the opponent to put them to sleep, and then hoping that the 2/3 chance of the opponent staying asleep will let them safely use Imprison before using Transform to lock the opponent into using Struggle. An alternative to this strategy that relies on the same method is Custap + Endure Smeargle, that Endures on turn 1 to stand up to the opponent's attack and have the Custap Berry make them go first, putting the opponent to sleep, and then hoping they stay asleep on the next turn for it to use Endeavor, and then finish them off with Extremespeed.
I won't leave any of my opinionated garble in here, since those are just my personal biases, but the statements above are facts, or at least my attempts at making factual statements. The ultimate deciding factor is what the community as people feel is the right thing to do, since Showdown is meant to be a community-based concept that controls the standards given to us by the games to mold them into what a majority of deciding people would consider "fair for all".
with your logic we are just counting stages of evasion/accuracy, which means, only minimize should be banned and not all evasion moves. so does it really make a difference? id say yes.
this does not change the fact that evasion boosting is uncompetitive, and its reverse is true; accuracy lowering is uncompetitive since the opponent can not switch in 1v1. it should not matter how many stages are being boosted that makes something uncompetitive. more stages makes more of a difference which could lead to something being overpowered, but it does not influence whether or not it is competitive.
there are very few differences between evasion boosting and accuracy lowering
- # of stages: minimize can change by 2 stages ("relevant" for 15 mons)
- simple: can abuse double team and get abused by accuracy lowering more easily ("relevant" for 5 mons)
- contrary: cant boost evasion, but get boosted by accuracy lowering ("relevant" for 7 mons)
- unaware: ignore opponents evasion boosts ("relevant" for 7 mons)
- magic bounce: bounces back accuracy lowering status moves unless the opponent has moldbreaker/teravolt ("relevant" for 6 mons)
- competitive/defiant: gives attackers a boost when the opponent tries to lower accuracy ("relevant" for 20 mons)
- wonder skin: accuracy lowering status moves are 50% accurate ("relevant" for 4 mons)
- levitate/flying types/air balloon: immune to mudslap unless the opponent has moldbreaker/teravolt for levitate, or gravity for flying types/air balloon, or trick/switcheroo+ringtarget for flying type/air balloon, or a non-immune attack for airballoon ("relevant" for all but 35 megas)
- substitute: accuracy lowering moves can not bypass unless the opponent has infiltrator once substitute is up ("relevant" for all but 25 mons)
- taunt: prevents the opponent from setting up evasion unless they have oblivious/mbounce and you dont have moldbreaker, or unless they have mental herb ("relevant" for 200+ mons)
Clefable @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Unaware
Sassy Nature
- Metronome
- Cosmic Power
- Rest
- Lucky Chant
Pretty fun to add to team, you max both defense with cosmic and tank damage while stalling with rest. Lucky chant keeps the crits away. And metronome makes the long stall fun.
Ability: Unaware
Sassy Nature
- Metronome
- Cosmic Power
- Rest
- Lucky Chant
Pretty fun to add to team, you max both defense with cosmic and tank damage while stalling with rest. Lucky chant keeps the crits away. And metronome makes the long stall fun.
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(When I came back to finish off S rank my iPad stopped letting my copy/Paste for some reason and im away on vacation so I can't use a computer, if someone could help that would be great, that's also why I had some pokemon with [name] instead of an actual sprite)
This is a 1v1 sets compendium for all mons from S rank through to B rank (not including B- rank]
Gyarados-Mega
Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt
- Outrage
- Crunch
Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch
Mawile-Mega
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metal Burst
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
Porygon-Z
Porygon-Z @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 156 Def / 128 SpA / 224 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Hyper Beam
- Uproar
- Dark Pulse
Porygon-Z @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Trick
- Uproar
Porygon-Z @ Custap Berry
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 240 HP / 248 SpA / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt/Dark Pulse
- Hyper Beam
- Endure
Kyurem-Black
Kyurem-Black @ Haban Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
Credits to DEG (Kyurem-Black) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Roost
Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
Kyurem-Black @ Choice Specs
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance/Belly Drum
- Substitute/Will-o-Wisp
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp/Counter
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Blast Burn
- Air Slash/Ancient Power/Rock tomb/Dragon Pulse
- Will-O-Wisp
Greninja @ Choice Specs/Life orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
- Hydro Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Shadow Sneak/Hyper Beam/Dark pulse
Deoxys-Defense @ Lum Berry/Sitrus berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Taunt
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
- Recover
Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Superpower
- Earthquake/Fire Punch/Aqua Tail/Iron head
Dragonite @ Weakness Policy/Lum berry
Ability: Multiscale (Inner focus can be used if your team is incredibly weak to mega loppuny)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake/Superpower
meloetta
Meloetta @ Choice Specs
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Psychic/Psyshock/Hyper Voice
- Hyper Beam
- Shadow Ball/Energy Ball/Focus Blast
Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Iron Defense
- Scald
- Slack Off
Garchomp @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Poison Jab
Pinsir-Mega @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat/Earthquake
- Giga Impact
- Protect
- Swords Dance
Rhyperior @ Choice Band
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Wrecker
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch/Avalanche
Rhyperior @ Custap Berry
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Endure
- Swords Dance
- Rock Wrecker/Rock Blast
- Earthquake
Whimsicott @ Leftovers/babiri berry/Occa Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
Aggron-Mega @ Aggronite
Ability: Filter
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Head Smash
- Heavy Slam
- Toxic
- Metal Burst
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Counter
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
Mega Gardevoir
Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Hyper Beam
- Psychic/Psyshock/Focus Blast
- Taunt
Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm/Earthquake/Thunder Punch/Ice punch/Giga Impact
Togekiss @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Trick
- Flamethrower
- Dazzling Gleam
Togekiss @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charm
- Thunder Wave
- Air Slash
- Roost
Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Ball
Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Giga Impact/Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Roost
Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Scald
- Protect
Crustle @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Wrecker
- X-Scissor/Rock Blast/Earthquake
- Counter
Golem @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Counter
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Rash Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon/Hidden Power Ice
- Earth Power
- Rock Tomb
Magnezone @ Choice Specs/Weakness Policy/Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Hidden Power [Rock] / Hidden Power Ice
- Thunderbolt
- Mirror Coat/Hyper Beam. (Run endure here if you have Custap berry)
- Flash Cannon
Manaphy @ Lum Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Acid Armor
- Scald
- Rest
Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Rain Dance
- Rest
- Scald
Porygon2
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace/Analytic
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Recover
Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Hyper Beam
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Psyshock
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Yawn
- Protect
- Substitute
- Hyper Voice
Sylveon @ Custap Berry
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Endure
- Hyper Beam
- Hyper Voice
- Fake Tears
Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Overheat
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Counter
Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Pulse
Empoleon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
genesect
Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Trick
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch/Fire Punch/U-Turn
Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Sludge Wave
Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Giga Impact/Return
- Ice Punch
Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Yawn
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Protect
Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Unnerve
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 168 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance
Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
And that is my set compendium for 1v1 mons from B rank through to S rank
Moved this to resource thread as reccomended by Dream Eater Gengar
Hello, I'm bringing you the stats for the latest 1v1 tour. I deleted my old post since formatting was so bad, I have now fixed it. Since it takes 40~ minutes to format I'm going to do them slowly, I'm going to start with ORAS. Since it's done manually, it won't be 100% accurate, I most likely missed some battles or so, I apologize in advance. Pokemon are ranked from their number of use as first criteria, then Win %. Feel free to discuss the stats.
Used Pokemon IN-BATTLE:
ORAS
Total:52
Missing Pokemon: 0
Number of ORAS 1v1 games played: 26
What I have noticed here is the drastic Win % of Mega Mawile, with only 28% wins this Pokemon was overly prepared as it is a destructive force in 1v1. Mega Charizard was the best Pokemon in ORAS with a 100% win rate and 3 uses overall.
Used Pokemon IN-BATTLE:
ORAS
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + --- + ------- + ------ +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | W/L | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --- + ------- + ------ +
| 1 | Mega Mawile | 7 | 2/5 | 28%
| 2 | Dragonite | 5 | 3/2 | 60%
| 3 | Whimsicott | 4 | 3/1 | 75%
| 4 | Mega Charizard X | 3 | 3/0 | 100%
| 5 | Kyurem-Black | 3 | 2/1 | 66%
| 6 | Mega Gyarados | 3 | 2/1 | 66%
| 7 | Magnezone | 3 | 2/1 | 66%
| 8 | Mega Metagross | 3 | 2/1 | 66%
| 9 | Crustle | 2 | 2/0 | 100%
| 10 | Mega Aggron | 2 | 1/1 | 50%
| 11 | Mega Charizard Y | 2 | 0/2 | 0%
| 12 | Mega Venusaur | 2 | 0/2 | 0%
| 13 | Greninja | 1 | 1/0 | 100%
| 14 | Mega Blastoise | 1 | 1/0 | 100%
| 15 | Mega Heracross | 1 | 1/0 | 100%
| 16 | Relicanth | 1 | 1/0 | 100%
| 17 | Mega Audino | 1 | 1/0 | 100%
| 18 | Mega Lopunny | 1 | 0/1 | 0%
| 19 | Sawk | 1 | 0/1 | 0%
| 20 | Mandibuzz | 1 | 0/1 | 0%
| 21 | Entei | 1 | 0/1 | 0%
| 22 | Volcanion | 1 | 0/1 | 0%
| 23 | Jirachi | 1 | 0/1 | 0%
| 24 | Chansey | 1 | 0/1 | 0%
| 25 | Riolu | 1 | 0/1 | 0%Total:52
Missing Pokemon: 0
Number of ORAS 1v1 games played: 26
What I have noticed here is the drastic Win % of Mega Mawile, with only 28% wins this Pokemon was overly prepared as it is a destructive force in 1v1. Mega Charizard was the best Pokemon in ORAS with a 100% win rate and 3 uses overall.
Couple interesting things here apart from what u mentioned--zard y has a bad w/l, while zard x has a good one, so the which mega zard mindgame is still as strong as ever, but with most people tending to have an easier time beating y (makes sense, very rock weak, less bulky). Crustle is also a god (or maybe that's just me :J ). Dnite also having 5 uses surprised me. karl repping entei tho. Relicanth kinda intrigued me bcz im not rly sure what it does, ig another endure custap mon w/ rock head head smash?
The common sets have been updated!
- Earthquake has increased in usage on Mega Charizard X while Substitute has dropped
- Watch out for Black Kyurem who are running Iron Head more frequently now
- Mega Mawile and Mega Gyarados have dropped out of the top 5, being replaced by Mega Lopunny and Porygon-Z
- Earthquake has increased in usage on Mega Charizard X while Substitute has dropped
- Watch out for Black Kyurem who are running Iron Head more frequently now
- Mega Mawile and Mega Gyarados have dropped out of the top 5, being replaced by Mega Lopunny and Porygon-Z
Interesting statistics...
Hi guys it's been a while.
Also, Relicanth runs Sturdy Yawn Protect :)
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Amnesia
- Charm
- Soft-Boiled
- Moonblast/Mud Slap/Toxic/Whatever else, really.
Ok, so i would feel really guilty if i didn't post this beast. In ou you'll see clefable a ton, so I decided that since it's so good in ou, it had to be able to to something in 1v1. So I came up with this set.
This beats a ton of stuff. Off the top of the vr I can see it beats Gyara (painful with mudslap), Kyub (if you don't get flinched every time by iron head), most porygon-zs, dragonite, greninja, sometimes mega aggron if you don't get crit (way easier with mudslap), volcanion, sableye, golem, whims, jumpluff, and loads more. It's super customizable too, so I urge you to make the ladder worse by playing with this thing.
With Generation VII around the corner, I believe we may need to reevaluate our banlist's philosophy.
I'm not trying to make any sort of commentary on the brokenness of certain Pokemon, but the very fact that they are allowed is a departure from the policy typically followed by most OMs. I am, of course, referring to the 10 dropped Ubers: Aegislash, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Genesect, Gengar-Mega, Greninja, Hoopa-Unbound, Landorus, Lucario-Mega, Mawile-Mega.
While I don't find most of these banworthy in 1v1, the fact is that all of them (with the possible exception of Deoxys-Speed, which can still run an extremely effective PP stall set) have established themselves as high-quality Pokemon in the metagame, most notably the S Rank Mawile-Mega and A+ Rank Deoxys-Defense and Greninja, to the point that they are inextricably linked with the metagame and it would look entirely different without them.
Based on the inclusion of this significant number of "low Uber" Pokemon, 1v1 is not really an OU-based metagame, and it's going to be extremely weird if we leave this particular subset of Ubers allowed going into a generation that will likely have a completely different banlist. For instance, if the initial banlist of SM OU contains Deoxys, will we automatically ban it? That would run counter to the general hands-off banning philosophy of XY and ORAS that has allowed us to effectively ignore the goings-on of OU. And will we follow our precedent from this generation and basically stick to the initial SM OU banlist for the entire generation? I'm not necessarily advocating for any particular option, but there should be some clarity as to what the plan is going forward.
I'm not trying to make any sort of commentary on the brokenness of certain Pokemon, but the very fact that they are allowed is a departure from the policy typically followed by most OMs. I am, of course, referring to the 10 dropped Ubers: Aegislash, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Genesect, Gengar-Mega, Greninja, Hoopa-Unbound, Landorus, Lucario-Mega, Mawile-Mega.
While I don't find most of these banworthy in 1v1, the fact is that all of them (with the possible exception of Deoxys-Speed, which can still run an extremely effective PP stall set) have established themselves as high-quality Pokemon in the metagame, most notably the S Rank Mawile-Mega and A+ Rank Deoxys-Defense and Greninja, to the point that they are inextricably linked with the metagame and it would look entirely different without them.
Based on the inclusion of this significant number of "low Uber" Pokemon, 1v1 is not really an OU-based metagame, and it's going to be extremely weird if we leave this particular subset of Ubers allowed going into a generation that will likely have a completely different banlist. For instance, if the initial banlist of SM OU contains Deoxys, will we automatically ban it? That would run counter to the general hands-off banning philosophy of XY and ORAS that has allowed us to effectively ignore the goings-on of OU. And will we follow our precedent from this generation and basically stick to the initial SM OU banlist for the entire generation? I'm not necessarily advocating for any particular option, but there should be some clarity as to what the plan is going forward.
The initial banlist will be the OU banlist. From there we'll ban/unban according to this metagame and any changes OU make will be irrelevant.
Very few OMs are ever built for the purpose of upholding the bans and unbans made by the actual tiers. When we call an OM to be "based" on a certain tier, that means exactly what it should, that the OM is based upon the tier, not that it is drawing policy influence from them, which is why once a steady playerbase has been established for said OM, the influential body leading it can begin to make alterations to what is and isn't allowed
But, to be fair, 1v1 really isn't an OU-based metagame, though not for the reasons that you provided. Since usage tiers are given out to Pokemon based on how well
tl;dr: All OMs have their own versions of usage/viability tiers, and the only reason we "base" them off of the main tiers is because that'd be a heck of a lot easier than creating actual tiers beyond just the vr S-D ranks for every single OM.
I don't really care how we initially tier 1v1, because I'm sure it will work itself out (and I'm gonna be addicted no matter what). However, I will say that there are some ubers like aegislash and m-lucario who don't deserve a 1v1 ban. I'd personally prefer if we kept everything consistent with gen 6, and then just added in all the gen 7 mons and let the tier play out from there. Sadly though I'm just a scrub who likes 1v1, and knows nothing about actually organizing a tier so feel free to ignore me if the idea is stupid, or complicated to code.
I don't think this post is entirely fair. You picked out a single 1/4 of a sentence and then acted as though that was the entirety of the substance of my post. At no point did I imply that we need to ban a Pokemon every time one gets banned from OU. In fact, I even went directly against that by suggesting how an OU ban of Deoxys might be problematic for our metagame. Rather, I was pointing out an inconsistency that may make the metagame less accessible to new players, and will be even more of a problem if we were to let it go unchecked by keeping our same bizarre banlist going into an entirely new generation.
That being said, it doesn't seem like we are going to let it go unchecked. We're starting fresh, so there won't be any confusion, at least right away.
I picked out that portion since that was the only portion I took issue with in your statement.
When I said this, I didn't mean to have our bans act in relation to the main tiers' bans, rather the opposite, in that bans and unbans of OMs should act as if they have their own set of tiers
As for the inconsistencies, I don't really anticipate much changing immediately
If we do think about it, 1v1 is a metagame that is played on the borderline of Ubers and OU, It doesn't belong in any of these two. it's an own metagame that has its own banlist. I have agreed on starting with the OU banlist because that makes it easier to evaluate Pokemon at first, then start banning and unbanning from there. A lot of work should be done so we can re-balance the tier as fast as possible so we don't end up with ridiculous Pokemon or with a limited amount of Pokemon. The philosophy wasn't put in place at the beginning at Gen 6, but in the end. Gen 7 will be a good place to test it and see if we have some flaws in it.
To not mix everything together, the tiering should contain 3 phases, that we will follow smoothly so we can balance 1v1 and making it available at the start of this generation.
Phase I: The first phase should just focus on quick banning any unhealthy Pokemon that poses a threat to the 1v1 metagame. When fist experiencing the metagame, a user is encouraged to write his opinion on the metagame, nominating a Pokemon that he felt is unhealthy, we will then have a community input, if the majority seems to go with the flaw the Pokemon should be quick banned. A re-evaluation of the Pokemon can be made in the end, to decide whether he should stay banished or given another chance.
Phase II: After banning Pokemon that are unhealthy to the metagame, we will start bringing back Ubers down. Some Pokemon such as Mega Gengar and Mega Lucario will be put down with no input since they were present in the metagame. We will hold discussions about others Ubers Pokemon to determine if they are going to join the ranks of the 1v1 soldiers. We can follow the same road as Phase I, discussions and quick banning then re-evaluating.
Phase III: After a month or so of banning and unbanning Pokemon, we get to the main part of the tiering. This phase will be the one that paints the final banlist, we will go and re-evaluate everything we unbanned and banned and see if they really do deserves the spots they were given. In Phase III, we won't quick ban Pokemon but we will resort to Suspect Tests that should be fast and fun, which makes community input and voting take a major role in deciding the starting ground of the 1v1 metagame.
To not mix everything together, the tiering should contain 3 phases, that we will follow smoothly so we can balance 1v1 and making it available at the start of this generation.
Phase I: The first phase should just focus on quick banning any unhealthy Pokemon that poses a threat to the 1v1 metagame. When fist experiencing the metagame, a user is encouraged to write his opinion on the metagame, nominating a Pokemon that he felt is unhealthy, we will then have a community input, if the majority seems to go with the flaw the Pokemon should be quick banned. A re-evaluation of the Pokemon can be made in the end, to decide whether he should stay banished or given another chance.
Phase II: After banning Pokemon that are unhealthy to the metagame, we will start bringing back Ubers down. Some Pokemon such as Mega Gengar and Mega Lucario will be put down with no input since they were present in the metagame. We will hold discussions about others Ubers Pokemon to determine if they are going to join the ranks of the 1v1 soldiers. We can follow the same road as Phase I, discussions and quick banning then re-evaluating.
Phase III: After a month or so of banning and unbanning Pokemon, we get to the main part of the tiering. This phase will be the one that paints the final banlist, we will go and re-evaluate everything we unbanned and banned and see if they really do deserves the spots they were given. In Phase III, we won't quick ban Pokemon but we will resort to Suspect Tests that should be fast and fun, which makes community input and voting take a major role in deciding the starting ground of the 1v1 metagame.