I like giving multiple tier options. A works for me
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
ORAS In-game Tier List - Read Post #324
- Thread starter Celever
- Start date
- Status
CTNC
Doesn't know how to attack
Even though you can't get past the gate, you can still run in to Magmenite and Voltorb in the little space you have there. It's how I got mine.
That makes a little bit more sense. I can see how S is justified given its performance against everything after Norman. Winona's gym gives it pretty good EXP with little that can harm it outside of EQ Altaria.
...Kirlia learns Psychic at Level 30. Bro what are you smoking?
Nothing. I checked Serebii before I posted. 36. Unless it's outdated. I don't remember when mine learnt it but it felt near useless until it had Psychic
It learns Psychic around that time in XY.
This is ORAS. It learns Psychic at Level 30 before becoming Gardevoir. And I guess 31 for Gardevoir. I just played through the game and can confirm it.
Oops, I assumed you'd be able to get it at the same time as the Aggronite once you did the Rock Smashing.
Either way, regular Gardevoir is great. I didn't use it much until later because I was trying other stuff, but it was able to solo Wallace, Wally, Sidney, and Drake (ending up at full HP each time) despite having a ~5 level disadvantage.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3522574/
It needs to be fleshed out a bit though you can just look at this thread for availability. Though it would be nice to have one ITT I agree.
Also I want to justify Numel as an A Ranker based off anecdotal evidence because this bro has been such a powerful force for me it is not funny. Since capture it has done some serious work against Flannery and Winona while putting in a lot of work against Team Aqua. It also has done some work in the water routes probably because of Solid Rock and the water trainers tending to use non water-type moves. In the Pokémon League it put in serious work against Glacia though -SpA meant it could not OHKO anything and this was a Lv54 Camerupt. It also saved my ass big time against Steven surviving a Mega Metagross Giga Impact with just 3 HP from full and pulling off a clutch Lava Plume to save me from being swept by that thing. Not to mention it took out Skarmory, Aggron, Cradily and Armaldo. It is a solid A Ranker though its speed is a let down (even though I had Jolly with flawless speed) and it does not have the best matchup record but this thing is such a tank that I can vouch for its position. Then again this is anecdotal evidence so take it with a grain of salt.
Shouldn't Camerupt and Sharpedo be tiered differently depending on the game? Access to the mega stone is quite huge.
How is everyone using Treecko? Apparently, if you keep it unevolved until lv. 21, it will learn Giga Drain. S tier anyone? It has a lot more to do with that tier than the likes of loLotad.
Really curious to hear a defence of Lotad being as high as it is. Without Exp Share / lowmanning, its offensive capabilities are rather questionable.
How is everyone using Treecko? Apparently, if you keep it unevolved until lv. 21, it will learn Giga Drain. S tier anyone? It has a lot more to do with that tier than the likes of loLotad.
Really curious to hear a defence of Lotad being as high as it is. Without Exp Share / lowmanning, its offensive capabilities are rather questionable.
no because you don't get those mega stones till postgame so if you're going to tier them differently it's not going to be because of that.
I wouldnt really call it post game so much as "Delta Episode" which is after the E4. You dont get the game completion wallpaper until Delta Episode is done lol. Semantics motherfucker.
But no one cares even at that point. You get to use the Mega Stone for rupt and pedo for like 3 trainer battles.
But no one cares even at that point. You get to use the Mega Stone for rupt and pedo for like 3 trainer battles.
Treecko can't take physical hits very well at all despite its speed. It has no place in S tier. A would be fine. (currently using my Sceptile as a physical sweeper, least until I get Leaf Storm despite being Impish)
Lotad is more than fine. The only gripe is Water Stone coming a little later. It can hold on fairly well, though. Hold it back a Level for Mega Drain and that gives Bubble / Mega Drain until Bubblebeam comes. Then theres Surf after Norman. Being able to nearly manhandle two gyms solo (Roxanne and Flannery) is pretty nice. It just has an ocassional mediocre point here and there but let us be blunt - most of the Pokemon in S have a mediocre moment (aka no one is FE7 Marcus here). I mean look at Abra who has to suffer 4 levels of doing absolutely nothing but being a Teleport bot.
Thanks for the correction wrt the Camerupt/Sharpedo situation.
Treecko shouldn't worry about defences because it's quick and powerful, with great level-up moves and potent recovery. The combination of power and recovery from draining moves alone means he'll be needing less potions than your other folks. Later into the game, mega access means Sceptile is too fast and strong for the enemy to have a chance to threaten his mediocre defence.
I'm just surprised why this tiering discussion is suddenly marked with the overhyping of mediocrities I would last expect to find on top of the list. Corphish, Carvanha and Lotad in S? Treecko in the same tier with Numel and two HM slaves with bad combat? Geodude (this guy was discredited even in the RBY/GSC tier discussions a couple years back), really now?
Marcus does have very mediocre periods in FE7 btw ('mediocre' being somewhat of an understatement), but such an ideal does give me a good idea why things like Corphish and Lotad are being brought up as the pinnacle of in-game power and efficiency. Except, Marcus would probably be Zigzagoon in this game. Good early on with a quick Headbutt, then only good for infrastructure.
Treecko shouldn't worry about defences because it's quick and powerful, with great level-up moves and potent recovery. The combination of power and recovery from draining moves alone means he'll be needing less potions than your other folks. Later into the game, mega access means Sceptile is too fast and strong for the enemy to have a chance to threaten his mediocre defence.
I'm just surprised why this tiering discussion is suddenly marked with the overhyping of mediocrities I would last expect to find on top of the list. Corphish, Carvanha and Lotad in S? Treecko in the same tier with Numel and two HM slaves with bad combat? Geodude (this guy was discredited even in the RBY/GSC tier discussions a couple years back), really now?
Marcus does have very mediocre periods in FE7 btw ('mediocre' being somewhat of an understatement), but such an ideal does give me a good idea why things like Corphish and Lotad are being brought up as the pinnacle of in-game power and efficiency. Except, Marcus would probably be Zigzagoon in this game. Good early on with a quick Headbutt, then only good for infrastructure.
I've been very impressed by Crobat so far. As a zubat with just a couple of levels of grinding learns wing attack, allowing it to sweep brawly, and deal with the large number of fighting types (except meditite sometimes) and grass types easilly. Learns acrobatics at level 35 and cross poison with a heart scale (sludge bomb is on a mirage mountain), or venoshock from the TM at mauville. I think there's a good case for A, espescially with it's relatively fast exp growth even as a Crobat. Mine evolved just out of the fiery path, and it's brutally fast.
I believe this is where we need to really evaluate on what is going on within the game then Lucchini . First and foremlst what is going on.
- I have already been bouncing back and forth with Corphish. I want someone to legitimately test it first before I continue to keep it in S.
- Im really confused on how you find a Pokemon like Lotad mediocre. It is very good for a large portion of the game with minor hiccups along the way which many Pokemon face even in S Tier.
- Carvanha comes after Gym 5 and has access to STAB Surf right away with STAB Assurance or Thief as well. It also comes with Ice Fang and can learn Night Slash through move relearner at Level 30.
The biggest perk is that Sharpedo Surfs almost twice as fast as any other Pokemon with a small cost of not being able to fish in the water. Even outside of combat it is a godly HM Slave that only lacks learning Fly and Cut. Every efficient playthrough should have a Sharpedo. Im not even joking with this statement either.
- Geodude has minor mediocre moments but its biggest problem (Speed) is solved with Rock Polish. After Brawly it rarely struggles against any important fight. Wattson is screwed by STAB Magnitude or Bulldoze. Flannery will suffer from STAB Rock Tomb or STAB Magnitude. Though Graveler and Golem dont have SE coverage with STABs against Norman there is a hard time for Norman to bypass Graveler and definitely Golem. Only Pelliper poses as a moderate threat with Winona.
That is roughly 3-4 major battles that Geodude family exceeds in. And it can still somewhat win vs Tate and Liza if someone uses Smack Down - theyre all prone to Earthquake / Magnitude in this way.
It only sucks late game but its period of existence is very solid. Rock solid. It can be dropped off after its weak point starts settling in and its contributions, for the most part, yield positively.
Treecko is good Iunno what youre smoking.
Also Marcus almost never has a bad period even in FE7. Enemies are so piss weak that Marcus would still double the majority of them. Those he misses Brave Axe would pick up just fine. I mentioned FE7 Marcus and not FE6 because FE6 Marcus actually suffers an eventual rut where as FE7 Marcus stays strong for about 90% of the game. I also didnt mention Seth for obvious reasons.
- I have already been bouncing back and forth with Corphish. I want someone to legitimately test it first before I continue to keep it in S.
- Im really confused on how you find a Pokemon like Lotad mediocre. It is very good for a large portion of the game with minor hiccups along the way which many Pokemon face even in S Tier.
- Carvanha comes after Gym 5 and has access to STAB Surf right away with STAB Assurance or Thief as well. It also comes with Ice Fang and can learn Night Slash through move relearner at Level 30.
The biggest perk is that Sharpedo Surfs almost twice as fast as any other Pokemon with a small cost of not being able to fish in the water. Even outside of combat it is a godly HM Slave that only lacks learning Fly and Cut. Every efficient playthrough should have a Sharpedo. Im not even joking with this statement either.
- Geodude has minor mediocre moments but its biggest problem (Speed) is solved with Rock Polish. After Brawly it rarely struggles against any important fight. Wattson is screwed by STAB Magnitude or Bulldoze. Flannery will suffer from STAB Rock Tomb or STAB Magnitude. Though Graveler and Golem dont have SE coverage with STABs against Norman there is a hard time for Norman to bypass Graveler and definitely Golem. Only Pelliper poses as a moderate threat with Winona.
That is roughly 3-4 major battles that Geodude family exceeds in. And it can still somewhat win vs Tate and Liza if someone uses Smack Down - theyre all prone to Earthquake / Magnitude in this way.
It only sucks late game but its period of existence is very solid. Rock solid. It can be dropped off after its weak point starts settling in and its contributions, for the most part, yield positively.
Treecko is good Iunno what youre smoking.
Also Marcus almost never has a bad period even in FE7. Enemies are so piss weak that Marcus would still double the majority of them. Those he misses Brave Axe would pick up just fine. I mentioned FE7 Marcus and not FE6 because FE6 Marcus actually suffers an eventual rut where as FE7 Marcus stays strong for about 90% of the game. I also didnt mention Seth for obvious reasons.
I'd like to suggest moving Oddish-Vileplume up to B. It has pretty early availability, the typing is average but Gloom and Vileplume are bulky enough to take even an SE hit from most things. It's one of the only reliable sources of sleep, it gets access to a decent offensive movepool supported by a large special attack stat including Giga Drain, Dazzling Gleam, Toxic+Venoshock, and its ability lets you put Sunny Day + Solar Beam on it to great effect while also supporting your Numel/Blaziken. It deals with Team Aqua well if you're in AS, and all of the miscellaneous rock/water/grass/ground etc trainers.
Its only two major downfalls are being weak to three of the gym types and having low-ish speed, but it can handle all of the rest of the gyms and parts of the E4 very well, and its ability offsets the speed problem if you can throw Sunny Day on it.
Its only two major downfalls are being weak to three of the gym types and having low-ish speed, but it can handle all of the rest of the gyms and parts of the E4 very well, and its ability offsets the speed problem if you can throw Sunny Day on it.
I was using Corphish in OR and was pretty good, but i dont see him being that usefull in AS, also, is we dont count Aqua Jet and Adapt he is an ok mon, bad speed, bad bulk and you lose many KO's without Adapt, Sharpedo is better than Crawdaunt because the extra speed, and both appear about the same time in the game.
IMO Groudon and Kyogre should both be taken down a peg or two because they both come extremely late, and are both an extreme pain in the ass to capture (due to the fact that you have to fight/capture them in their mega form, and due to the fact they still have an abysmal capture rate of 5). Sure, they basically sweep the rest of the game with relative ease, but they come extremely late with an enormous amount of difficulty to obtain. Maybe C or even D but they are definitely not worth B.
Use a Master Ball?
The current speedrun strat is basically a Kyogre/Groudon solo after they're caught, it is by far the most efficient way to compete endgame. If anything they should be in S, as no Pokemon can quite replicate their complete endgame dominance.
In my experience, the DexNav somewhat circumvents the standard rarity, at least if wait for random DexNav appearances. While hunting for Skarmory on Route 117, the random DexNav yielded only 1 Spinda, three or so Sandshrew, and at least five Skarmory (which was also the first random DexNav encounter to begin with.) Are normally rare Pokemon really that difficult to obtain? Had I not been messing around for a Drill Peck Skarmory, I'd have gotten mine in ten seconds. And a second within three minutes of that.
- Status