Ladder ORAS Monotype Discussion

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Reason to ban: Mega Sableye is annoying, and very hard to beat with certain types.

Reason to leave: The ban arguments can be applied to literally any strong mega.

The types that suffer the most from Mega Sableye are ice and electric, which don't utilize much usage anyway and are outclassed by almost every other type.
I can assure you ice does not have a problem with sableye, this is coming from an ice user. Frost Breath Walrein and Lapras do a great job of getting through the CM boosts, and usually 2ko if physically defensive. If it's specially defensive, strong physical attackers such as Mamoswine or (in rarer cases) Mega Glalie also make a quick and easy clean up.
 
People have made reasons to ban and not ban megasab. In lieu of WoA's resolution to this, #MemesOwnAll, or MoA, which is now not to be associated with the Mall of America due to a fizzled out sponsorship deal, has your Megasab counters type by type.

Flying: Poison Fang Golbat tanks Will-O-Wisp and can defog any hazards you've hap-HAZARD-ly strewn across the battlefield with the utmost precision. Iron Tail Tornadus-I's potential Defense drops combined with a strong Band Attacker. I recommend Mandibuzz. Just look at this calc.
252+ Atk Choice Band Mandibuzz Brave Bird vs. -1 252 HP / 196+ Def Mega Sableye: 198-234 (65.1 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This matchup is 100/0 Flying like every other flying matchup

Psychic can wall megasab, the secret is right under our noses! SubShiftMind mono-attacker Cresselia is here to save your team from the Megasab menace! Cresselia can Calm Mind, bait a burn, Psycho shift it onto Megasab, and calm mind with it to victory! Moonblast outdamages Snarl, and kills earlier even compensating for Special Attack drops. Moonlight can even use sun-using Dark teams' sun against them! You can out-PP stall Sableye's recovers when you take burn damage into account!
+6 0 SpA Mega Sableye Snarl vs. +6 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 84-102 (18.9 - 22.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 4 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. +6 252 HP / 60 SpD Mega Sableye: 92-110 (30.2 - 36.1%) -- 46.9% chance to 3HKO

Who said people only use Lucario because it looks cool? everybody
You can utilize Nasty Plot Lucario to Flash Cannon that cancer and Vacuum Wave the rest of the team!
+6 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. +5 252 HP / 60 SpD Mega Sableye: 149-177 (49 - 58.2%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

Klinklang can set up on Mega Sableye, it doesn't get hurt using Substitute because it only needs Shift Gear, Gear Grind, and Wild Charge!

The obvious answer, and what I'll mention here, is Mold Breaker Toxic Pinsir. You can even lay rocks freely! How fantastic!

This has been mentioned before, but Specs Lanturn Dazzling Gleam can beat any Megasab.

Haxorus puts in work. Every set you can think of is possible with Haxorus. Sub+Toxic+Confide+Filler with Lefties is my favorite set atm, Confide resets the Special Attack boosts. Toxic Kyu-B is a gimmick and you shouldn't use it.

This is a difficult one, the generic Trick Room Claydol+Band Hippowdon won't cut it as Megasab is too slow. Band Hippo can 2HKO if Will O' Wisp misses, but there are more threats that Ground has. If you can stop him from Calm Minding, I recommend Specs Zygarde!
252+ SpA Choice Specs Zygarde Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Mega Sableye: 214-253 (70.3 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

use megasab you piece of shit

PM Anttya for luck and use Chatter Chatot! It's a fool-proof strat!

This is hopeless. The X button is the counter to M-Sab as fairy.

Get your Mega-Sab in immediately. Calm Mind immediately. You have won.

Poison Fang Venomoth can badly poison Mega Sableye and win Calm Mind/Quiver Dance wars with Sableye, and maybe even countersweep Sableye's team or just badly poison him and die but w/e

Tyrantrum can Poison Fang Mega Sableye, and Dragon Pulse to do chip damage to any switch. Forcing it out repeatedly is the goal, to make him switch in on your Crustle hazards that generic Rock has.

Shaymin-L can spam Seed Flare at it and then Dazzling Gleam it and kill it easily. Natural Cure can heal any burns as well. Why does this sleeper pick have only 3% usage?

Low-ladderers have had it right all along. You can just use Pikachu. Mixed Pikachu is the ideal 1-2 punch that Electric needs to kill Megasab.
252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Mega Sableye: 160-190 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Mega Sableye: 138-163 (45.3 - 53.6%) -- 40.2% chance to 2HKO

Dual screening Rotom-H and Bellycharge Magmortar together can not only beat Megasab, but counter-sweep Dark, assuming you have rocks from the suicide lead Infernape set (temporary character break: suicide lead nape is actually a nice set that i've found success with). Mach Punches from Magmortar are pure pain to any Dark that crosses its path. This matchup is 100/0 imo. While I'd recommend Sitrus Berry for Belly Drum sets for any mon, I'm sure this one guy knows what he's doing.

Automize Frost Breath Vanilluxe can counter-sweep teams once Bishiesharp is dead, or if you have rocks on your Ice team for some reason, you can even pack HP Fighting to do a full counter-sweep and kill Ttar and Bishiesharp.


[serious]megasab is honestly just annoying, i initially wanted to ban but now i'm thinking of not banning him. the only type that has a massive issue with him other than "i give him free turns and he won! BAN!" is poison, which while i don't think is an "irredeemable" low tier type, has to be a casualty, there are greater threats from greater types that poison would not dream of beating, but we wouldnt dream of suspecting because theyre just not broken [/serious]

Megasab is totally beatable guys! Everyone can do it!
 
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I have seen this argument a bunch too, and frankly this is a poor argument to get mega-sableye banned. If my Stealth Rock user was unable to deal with Espeon/Xatu/Mega-Absol/Mega-Diancie, then again I am not getting rocks until it dies. This sounds like a problem with Magic Bounce (the ability).

The owner of Mega-Sableye is no more entitled to have hazards because of Mega-Sableye. They still have to lay the hazards (Mega-Sableye cannot lay any of its own) and unless they haven't mega-evolved and are packing taunt, Mega-Sableye can't really stop you from using Defog since it's slow. Further, Mega-Sableye needs to mega-evolve first before it can bounce back hazards. If I lead with my SR setter and you lead with something other than Sableye (with the intent to mega-evolve right away), you cannot switch in Sableye hoping to prevent me from laying hazards because you won't have Magic Bounce yet.

It is true that Magic Bounce is an excellent ability, and that Mega-Sableye is the hardest to kill out of all magic bouncers. But this alone is not enough IMO to get it banned.

To put it another way, if I have a Mega-Scizor w/ SD/roost/bug bite/bullet punch, and you have a Heatran, I'm unable to set up or even really use Scizor until Heatran is dealt with. Is this because Heatran is OP and needs banning, or is it an indication that I need to plan on facing Heatrans when building my team?
Ok.

Those pokemon share an ability but are not the same. Besides my judgement saying sab has the best typing and defenses, it also has recovery (diancie and absol do not). Greninja has been banned because xyz (protean + good special + good speed), frogadier lacks a few in the xyz department, therefore no ban. Sab contends in this department, but it is up to the nonpartisan people to vote.

Turn 1 Mega Sab vs rocker2. Turn 2 rocker2 leaves for random. Turn 3 sab leaves for rocker 1 vs random. Turn 4 rocker 1 sets rocks random switches to rocker2. Turn 5 Sab comes in and blocks rocks. The problem I am getting at is sableye is far more entitled to hazards because you have to play a perfect prediction game to keep rocks off your side of the field (predicting every rocker1 switch in to switch to the appropriate counter if any), if your rocker can't break it then tough nuts, you're literally out of luck.

I'm far too rusty to say anything really so back to the shadow realm! I just enjoyed reading the chip damage arguments Freeroamer and a few others had played with a while back and felt like chiming in to add my gripe to it lol.

Edit: Add teammate support to greninja ban as well! Water is a good type (potentially like dark) and I'm sure that contributed to the ban as well.

Edit2: To address the scizor / heatran point, that is kind of interesting. I generally allow for a good chunk of bs I just have to accept in terms of losing in monotype. However, Sableye never really strikes me as a heatran, it is more of a, well, bastard. I could at least chip that heatran away for something else to kill it, but sableye is just a different beast. I'm not really for or against and I don't plan on voting even though I do have an account, just wanted to discuss since I haven't been able to in a long time.
 
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Ok.

Those pokemon share an ability but are not the same. Besides my judgement saying sab has the best typing and defenses, it also has recovery (diancie and absol do not). Greninja has been banned because xyz (protean + good special + good speed), frogadier lacks a few in the xyz department, therefore no ban. Sab contends in this department, but it is up to the nonpartisan people to vote.

Turn 1 Mega Sab vs rocker2. Turn 2 rocker2 leaves for random. Turn 3 sab leaves for rocker 1 vs random. Turn 4 rocker 1 sets rocks random switches to rocker2. Turn 5 Sab comes in and blocks rocks. The problem I am getting at is sableye is far more entitled to hazards because you have to play a perfect prediction game to keep rocks off your side of the field (predicting every rocker1 switch in to switch to the appropriate counter if any), if your rocker can't break it then tough nuts, you're literally out of luck.
Obviously Mega-Sableye is on another level compared to shit like Espeon / Xatu; this is why Mega-Sableye is on every ghost/dark team while the other two can't secure a spot on psychic or flying teams. My point was that if your stealth rocker can't get past any magic bouncer, then they are out of luck. For example, if standard Hippowdon was sent out against Magic Bounce Xatu and is unable to use status moves or even damage it, your ground team is going to be very hard-pressed to lay rocks while Xatu is still alive. Mega-Sableye is obviously harder to kill than Xatu but the point is still there; it's not enough to just slap SR on some wall if Mega-Sableye is a prominent threat. You either need to put SR on something that threatens Mega-Sab, or pack a teammate that can force it out.

Now it may turn out that Mega-Sableye is banned for a combination of things (good typing + good defenses + good moveset + ability + teammate support) but it won't be because of hazard management. Ghost and Dark aren't particularly vulnerable to SR/hazards, and neither really depend on hazards being set to win, either.

[serious]megasab is honestly just annoying, i initially wanted to ban but now i'm thinking of not banning him. the only type that has a massive issue with him other than "i give him free turns and he won! BAN!" is poison, which while i don't think is an "irredeemable" low tier type, has to be a casualty, there are greater threats from greater types that poison would not dream of beating, but we wouldnt dream of suspecting because theyre just not broken [/serious]
Taken from Smogon's StrategyDex for Tentacruel (OU): "[Tentacruel's] main claim to fame is being a Rapid Spin user that can beat Mega Sableye". Scald will eventually burn it if Sab stays in, and Acid Spray lowers its special bulk faster than it can boost it. Tenta's special defense when invested forces Mega-Sableye to get to at least +2 before it can deal any meaningful damage to it. I also personally run RestTalk on mine to get rid of burns since Mega-Sableye is all the rage, but even w/o RestTalk Tenta is a fine answer to it. I mainly play Poison and frankly I am more scared of Bisharp / Aegislash / Golurk / Hoopa instead of Mega-Sableye's CM boosting set or utility set.

The PuP/Shadow Sneak set though... #newmeta
 
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Lol at the Physical Tyranitar / iWanka combo.

Hands down at the average fella list, and at the new meta PuP mega sableye.

Lol at people saying with mega sableye gone, ghost will suck again dark, and dark will lose more again fighting (hint: ghost already sucks again dark, and regular sableye pretty walls most fightings in its own)

What at comparing mega sableye to espeon/xatu (seriously Arash?)

Now real talking:

TheWyvernKing said:
One thing I will say though is that the presence mega sableye has isn't exactly limited to when it's in battle so you can't make the entire argument based on the fact that just about every type has a check for it, if there weren't enough answers to mega sab I believe that this suspect would've began long ago. Throughout the battle MSab is still able to provide pressure on the opponent with it's amazing ability in Magic Bounce along with amazing bulk that in combination let it not only come in safely in the event that you were unsure if the opponent was going to use stealth rocks, but also gives it fantastic opportunities to get calm mind down. Right now mega sableye is able to be used by one of the most prevalent types in the metagame which has one of the best monocores in the game along with pokemon such as Hoopa-U which I get the feeling will be leaving us in the upcoming months. Not only this but although it has become standard for every team to have a strong msab counter, I seriously doubt that a large portion of these pokemon would have been considered for the type when they put it on teambuilder. Toxic ampharos? Choice specs Walrein? Like if I was honest here I wouldn't have seen a specs walrein pass off as nothing more than a lure if msab wasn't a thing. Even now a large portion of players struggle against it, the only thing that I've seen steel players be able to do is try to get it down on health and then send in lum bisharp which can often get burned in the end since iron head does like 30% when unboosted. Another argument that I know has been expressed alot by other players (but I shall bring up again nonetheless) is the fact that both sides of the field have a good 5 pokes waiting and ready to support. Although this is true for both sides and I can't make too big of an argument that will support the msab ban I would like to point out the fact that dark has some of the best support in the meta. With pokemon such as mandibuzz, tyranitar, and the occasional umbreon all able to provide amazing defensive support with hazards, defog, and a cleric along with the fact that they are able to counter almost the entire meta with an exception toward offensive fairies and a few extremely strong wallbreakers. Not only this but with pokemon such as crawdaunt and hoopa-u I feel that when it comes down to it, wearing down the other team will be nowhere near difficult. People have been complaining about this troll the day the first played it and I feel that since people are complaining about it over a year later then that's clearly not a good sign.

Overall the major points I see for why it should be banned would be how it overcentralized the meta, the insane pressure it can put down when it's both on and off the field, the amazing support it, and the fact that even now it's a standing threat in the meta.
This is a well wroten post.
It seriously bug me how the introduction of mega sableye have morphed the metagame, where the users of some types are forced to run subpar sets on pokemon to have a chance again it: on poison Tentacruel now is forced to run a resttalk set to counter it, instead of the utility which rapid spin provided to its team in the past; mega ampharos now is forced to have toxic instead of a coverage move which it normally needs; specs walrein, instead of leftovers recovery to tank more hits of scizor and Frost breath, instead of the more reliable ice beam; hell, for ghosts it reduces to a megaeye-megaeye calm mind war, ... Note most of these are lower viability types (electric, poison, ice, ghost, ...) which usually mega sableye have a field day again, finding plenty of opportunities again those types to boost a calm mind and start wreakin havoc.
If the general consensus is to left mega sableye in the tier I have no problems (the types I use dont have problems with it anyway), but I dare to say it will increase the gap between high viability types and low viability types even more.

Tl:dr: while high viability types beat megaeye with brute force / offensive pressure, low viability types must rely on niche sets to beat it, decreasing the overall utility of the team.


Edit: ty to ms2 death and madman for correction :)
 
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Physical Tyranitar

formerly Marquis of Blaze
Look, I know that most of you may not be happy to see me, and I've understood that I've been acting obnoxious in the last few posts, and I apologize for that. I've learned the error of my ways. I should be getting a name change soon, so I thought I'd post one last time as Physical Tyranitar.

Mega Sableye is a definition of a nuisance; it's that ad that always appears on Candy Crush. With a mixture of bulk, usability, and value on the battlefield, it wouldn't be hard to see why it was suspected. It's typing permits three immunities, all three of which are common attacking types, and has an excellent movepool allowing it to function as a setup sweeper, utility, or even an offensive set. Mega Sableye's 50/125/115 bulk may seem slightly underwhelming, but Mega Sableye has the ability to boost both sides of it's defenses quickly and effectively. Mega Sableye is the bane of all physical attackers, so it is not unlikely to find yourself powerless against the gem demon as your physical attackers are burned, which ensures its survival. For a wall, Mega Sableye's offensive stats aren't too shabby, which means that a STAB Knock Off will do some decent damage, even if uninvested. Mega Sableye may seem too powerful for many and sickening for most, which has gotten it into a suspect.

How do you beat it?

Well, the answer can depend. I've seen many people (not you guys) complain about Mega Sableye and how it should be banned, and posting replays about how their Monotype Teams were mercilessly swept 6-0 by Mega Sableye. However, in about 80% of these, these players let Mega Sableye setup on them and let their wallbreakers be burned physically to the point that Mega Sableye had severely weakened their entire team. In this case, Mega Sableye is not overpowered, but fully setup, and the same goes for most setup sweepers in general anyway. Once Mega Sableye is setup and knocks out a Pokemon, it will take about 3-4 Physical Attackers to attack it and be burned to knock it out. The key to not letting Mega Sableye win is to kill it while it is not yet at full power. Think of Mega Sableye as a ticking timebomb; you have to defuse it before it blows, or everybody is in trouble.

True, it is centralizing. It does kinda meet the criteria for a ban- or at least a suspect- and makes most Physical Attackers that are negatively affected by burn auto-lose. But it isn't invincible. It does have it's strength and bulk, but wallbreakers can surely pierce through it. Anything capable of doing 55% or more to Mega Sableye if it has used Calm Mind once or higher should be good to go. Every type has some ways to defeat it, be it unconventional or not. Quick thinking, knowledge of core mechanics and sacrifice is what is needed to banish the Gem-Wielding Demon for good.
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And that concludes the final post of Physical Tyranitar. Thanks guys for everything, it's been real.
 
Mega Sableye may not be broken but it really IS overcentralizing, unless you're using a Fairy or Fire team, killing that thing is a massive pain in the ass. Yes, many types have ways to beat it (Grass actually has Contrary Serperior and Offensive Whimsicott for all you Grass mains) but the problem is that it has more than enough support to take care of almost all of its checks. Pair that up with the fact that some types such as Electric have only a few checks, even when counting unconventional sets, to begin with and you have a nearly unstoppable beast as it can CM up without any worries and win the game. Mega Amph with Toxic even became a thing due to Mega Sableye itself, that says a lot on its own. So yeah, theres my viewpoint on its effect of the metagame.

Edit: Did I forget to mention that Ghost will STILL lose to Dark even with Mega Sableye here? Why does everyone think Mega Sableye will stop Dark from winning against Ghost? Lol
 
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Mega Sableye may not be broken but it really IS overcentralizing, unless you're using a Fairy or Fire team, killing that thing is a massive pain in the ass. Yes, many types have ways to beat it (Grass actually has Contrary Serperior and Offensive Whimsicott for all you Grass mains) but the problem is that it has more than enough support to take care of almost all of its checks. Pair that up with the fact that some types such as Electric have only a few checks, even when counting unconventional sets, to begin with and you have a nearly unstoppable beast as it can CM up without any worries and win the game. Mega Amph with Toxic even became a thing due to Mega Sableye itself, that says a lot on its own. So yeah, theres my viewpoint on its effect of the metagame.

Edit: Did I forget to mention that Ghost will STILL lose to Dark even with Mega Sableye here? Why does everyone think Mega Sableye will stop Dark from winning against Ghost? Lol
I don't think many people said ghost will auto loss to dark, since even with it it already does. That isn't the reason why a lot of us are defending it.
 
Mega Sableye may not be broken but it really IS overcentralizing, unless you're using a Fairy or Fire team, killing that thing is a massive pain in the ass. Yes, many types have ways to beat it (Grass actually has Contrary Serperior and Offensive Whimsicott for all you Grass mains) but the problem is that it has more than enough support to take care of almost all of its checks. Pair that up with the fact that some types such as Electric have only a few checks, even when counting unconventional sets, to begin with and you have a nearly unstoppable beast as it can CM up without any worries and win the game. Mega Amph with Toxic even became a thing due to Mega Sableye itself, that says a lot on its own. So yeah, theres my viewpoint on its effect of the metagame.

Edit: Did I forget to mention that Ghost will STILL lose to Dark even with Mega Sableye here? Why does everyone think Mega Sableye will stop Dark from winning against Ghost? Lol
Did you mention that dark has hoopa-u,Bisharp,Umbreon,Mandi.... Dark will not take a hit from banned mega sableye. But ghost will
 
I don't think many people said ghost will auto loss to dark, since even with it it already does. That isn't the reason why a lot of us are defending it.
Ik, I just put that there randomly as a joke. The rest of the post is actually my reasoning and viewpoints of Mega Sableye.

Did you mention that dark has hoopa-u,Bisharp,Umbreon,Mandi.... Dark will not take a hit from banned mega sableye. But ghost will
Yeah, Dark is fine with Normal Sableye. Ghost won't have any Knock Off absorber though.
 
Gerard said:
Colbur Berry exists you know. Is good, you should try it.
Agreed, colbur berry regular sableye is also a nice stop to mega gyarados, a beast again monoghosts.

Physical Tyranitar said:
Look, I know that most of you may not be happy to see me, and I've understood that I've been acting obnoxious in the last few posts, and I apologize for that. I've learned the error of my ways. I should be getting a name change soon, so I thought I'd post one last time as Physical Tyranitar.
aww man, dont do it, i actually think u are a nice guy :3
 
Agreed, colbur berry regular sableye is also a nice stop to mega gyarados, a beast again monoghosts.
...
Colbur Berry (or any damage reducing berry for that matters) only activates when a super effective move is used.
So Colbur Berry Sableye is useless...


edit: I've used Colbur Berry Cofagrigus in the past and it's 'ok'. Helps a lot versus the numerous physical attackers that depend on their ability (Azumarill, Pinsir, Scizor, Hawlucha, Conkeldurr, etc)
 
Hey everybody, Whirl the Pede here.
So for the past few days, the hot monotype topic has been whether or not Mega Sableye should be banned or not. This suspect has been pretty twosided, as some of the Dark/Ghost users be like "WHAT?! You can't ban MegaEye!! My team needss it! Obviously the people who want it banned are salty/terrible players that dont know that (insert mon here) can counter/check it!" While the other side has been like "Oh don't worry about it, we banned KyuW, and look at how WELL Ice is doing without it! :P"
In MY opinion, Ghost Mono Teams kinda need MegaEye more than Dark Mono teams, as Reg Sableye and Mandibuzz can switch in and handle/check some Fighting type, and now that Hoopa-U has joined the fray, fighting shouldn't be much of a problem. As for hazard control, well, theres Mandibuzz.
Ghost, on the other hand, highly appreciates having MegaEye on the team for both hazard control and a Knock Off eater. Even though regular Sableye can Taunt obvious leads, it cannot switch in to something about to set up hazards. Once hazards are up, its rip for ghost (There is Defog Drifblim, but no one would want to use Defog Drifblim, let alone Drifblim itself.)
Since Mega Stones cannot be removed, MegaEye is a great way for Ghost to handle common Knock Off spam as well.
As for the infamous CM set that everyone complains about, it often best to stop it before it sets up too much. SD users, Fire Types and Faires often do not have to worry to much about MegaEye.

Checks and Counters for Each Type
Grass: Sd Poison Heal Loom, Serperior, Offensive Whimsicott, Shaymin
Poison: Acid Spray Tentacreul, Nidoking (can put in Offensive Pressure), Setting up T-Spikes (before Sab has Mega'd/Aginst another Member of the team (this was from kammi))
Fire: Cannot get burned, Darm, Entei, and Victini are capable of OHKOing it with strong physical STAB (Sun Support)
Flying: SD Gliscor, Scarf Togekiss, Croven's RestTalk MegaGyara set, Lando-I
Water: Banded/BD Azu, Tentacreul, Keldeo(SubCM/Specs)
Bug: SD Mega Pinsir/Scizor, Volcarona (Unless Snarl)
Normal:MegaPunny, Band Diggersby, Specs Melo
Electric: NP Thundy-I, Toxic Mega Ampharos, Luxray, Specs Analytic Magnezone (Only works the turn Sableye Mega Evovles), SubCM Raikuo
Ground: SD Gliscor, Lando-I, SD Lum Chomp
Fighting: Guts Hera, Lum/Sub Pangoro, Keldeo (SubCM/Specs)
Rock: Mega Diancie, RestTalk Mega Aggron
Psychic: Gardevoir, Scarf Rachi, Victini, Mega Alaska Zam, Band Hoopa-U, SubCM Melo
Ice: Double-Edge/Explosion Mega Glalie, Band Outrage Kyub, Specs Frost Breath Walrein
Ghost: Specially Defensive SD Aegislash, CM Wars, Pressure Crotomb
Dragon: Lum Haxorus, CritDra, Specs Dragalge, Band Kyub
Steel: Scarf Rachi, Lava Plume/Magma Storm Heatran, Bisharp
Dark: Bisharp, Crawdaunt, Banded Hoopa-U, CM Wars
Fairy: More like Mega Sableye needs checks and counters for Fairy

Anyway, that's what I think are good ways to handle MegaEye. Some work best when Sableye has just Mega Evovled, while others work anywhere in the battle. My name is Whirl the Pede, but you knew that already. HAVEAGOODONE!
 
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Mega Sableye may not be broken but it really IS overcentralizing, unless you're using a Fairy or Fire team, killing that thing is a massive pain in the ass. Yes, many types have ways to beat it (Grass actually has Contrary Serperior and Offensive Whimsicott for all you Grass mains) but the problem is that it has more than enough support to take care of almost all of its checks. Pair that up with the fact that some types such as Electric have only a few checks, even when counting unconventional sets, to begin with and you have a nearly unstoppable beast as it can CM up without any worries and win the game. Mega Amph with Toxic even became a thing due to Mega Sableye itself, that says a lot on its own. So yeah, theres my viewpoint on its effect of the metagame.

Edit: Did I forget to mention that Ghost will STILL lose to Dark even with Mega Sableye here? Why does everyone think Mega Sableye will stop Dark from winning against Ghost? Lol
Well your saying that electric has only a few checks. Steel also only has a few. Bug also only has a few and the checks that Electric has are very effective in the first place, Sub Mind Raikou works great as long as your not letting it set up too much, Specs Magnezone also does a ton along with Nasty Plot Thundurus. Whoever said its not a good counter because it gets 2OHKOED by Shadow Ball from +1 Mega Sab a +2 Thunderbolt against a +1 Mega Sabeleye should put it in range where something else could come in and revenge kill it, and Toxic Mega Amphy is also super reliable Also Toxic Mega Amphy doesn't really hurt it in my opinion, it never had a normal move set there was only different ones floating around with Thunderbolt and Dragon Pulse of course along with focus blast cottron guard, agility, discharge. It doesn't really hurt it tbh.

Edit:

Proving you can Nasty Plot and thunderbolt then proceed to Revenge kill ThimoTheUltimateBOBO (Just to not have to have two posts)
+2 252+ SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 186-220 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 142-168 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 115-136 (37.8 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
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Well your saying that electric has only a few checks. Steel also only has a few. Bug also only has a few and the checks that Electric has are very effective in the first place, Sub Mind Raikou works great as long as your not letting it set up too much, Specs Magnezone also does a ton along with Nasty Plot Thundurus. Whoever said its not a good counter because it gets 2OHKOED by Shadow Ball from +1 Mega Sab a +2 Thunderbolt against a +1 Mega Sabeleye should put it in range where something else could come in and revenge kill it, and Toxic Mega Amphy is also super reliable Also Toxic Mega Amphy doesn't really hurt it in my opinion, it never had a normal move set there was only different ones floating around with Thunderbolt and Dragon Pulse of course along with focus blast cottron guard, agility, discharge. It doesn't really hurt it tbh.

Edit:
+2 252+ SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 186-220 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 142-168 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 115-136 (37.8 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Toxic Amphy is much more reliable than using Thunderbolt against it. With Luxray, pressing Recover till it dies from Recoil is an option. As for Thundurus, it's either going to Tyranitar, especially if you reveal Nasty Plot, or Golurk (Shedinja for people like me) in Ghost's case. But then again, physical Thundurus is almost a must for Electric.
 
The ghost-type will lose alot of usage, since M-sableye is/was dominating everything due to Verlisfy's method,(which is pretty op imo,but, not that op to get a ban from smogon,{[btw, give the goddamn man a break for gosh sakes]}).
 
Alexis Breeze said:
...
Colbur Berry (or any damage reducing berry for that matters) only activates when a super effective move is used.
So Colbur Berry Sableye is useless...
RIP my dream to use it :I
nah lols i think will stick to leftovers in dat case

TheAce22 said:
and Toxic Mega Amphy is also super reliable Also Toxic Mega Amphy doesn't really hurt it in my opinion, it never had a normal move set there was only different ones floating around with Thunderbolt and Dragon Pulse of course along with focus blast cottron guard, agility, discharge. It doesn't really hurt it tbh.
Last year common sets on mega amphy were rest talk + dpulse + discharge like a tank again special attackers and sleep absorber, and 3 attacks + Heal bell to help its team. Im not sure toxic is the most optimal thing on mega amphy, but maybe thats just me tho
 
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Just wanted to post a few replays and my views on them.
Me using Mega Sableye

Grass vs Dark
My opponent outplayed me at the start and if he continued, he would have won. If he had whimsicott I also would have lost.
Flying vs Dark My opponent sac's his counter to mega sab pretty early but still succeeds in stalling it out.
Bug vs Dark Mega Sableye was pretty useless in this matchup. Probably could have used a replay of me losing here lol but I didn't save them.
Ground vs Dark Very close game. Sableye doesnt do much because Mega Camerupt is strong af.

It's important to note that I'm not the most experienced at using Sableye so perhaps I wasn't using it in an optimal manner, but surely that proves you need experience and skill to use it well. This is hardly the hallmark of a broken pokemon.

Also, I did win all of these games but Sableye didn't play a major role. I can assure you that I haven't been biased here (I don't use dark or ghost normally), these were genuinely all the good games I had when testing. I lost a few times to bug and fighting but I didn't think that would be relevant.

Me vs Mega Sableye

Ghost vs Ground My team was very well prepared for it and as a result I won the game.
Dark vs Ice Not the greatest matchup so I was forced to make some plays. My specs frost breath froslass was able to check Mega Sableye effectively.

The main thing people are complaining about are electric and ice, so if you want a replay of me using electric I can get it.

One thing I would like to stress is this: stop complaining just because you have to change your team. Obviously I would not be using frost breath froslass if sableye was banned. But I would also not be using balloon heatran if Garchomp/Diancie was banned (on respective types). There are many examples of niche sets being used to counteract certain pokemon. This is a normal part of the game. I feel that a lot of people want Sableye gone just because they want power gem instead of toxic on Ampharos (or equivalent scenario). Well guess what, AV eelektross can check volcarona with rock slide anyway, so you don't necessarily need power gem. Obviously changing your team up is a nuisance but I feel banning certain pokemon just because you don't want to change your team is the wrong direction for monotype.

With regards to the team pressure argument: I feel that when using Mega Sableye a lot of your switches are easy to predict and so you can double switch. For example, check the replay of me vs devinp0 (grass vs dark). Serperior is a big threat to my team and so he kept switching into it, forcing me to sac a pokemon. Every type can threaten the dark core in some way or another, just don't get frustrated lol.

PS I have no idea what is happening with the hides lmao. They kept duplicating so I took them out.
 
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Well your saying that electric has only a few checks. Steel also only has a few. Bug also only has a few and the checks that Electric has are very effective in the first place, Sub Mind Raikou works great as long as your not letting it set up too much, Specs Magnezone also does a ton along with Nasty Plot Thundurus. Whoever said its not a good counter because it gets 2OHKOED by Shadow Ball from +1 Mega Sab a +2 Thunderbolt against a +1 Mega Sabeleye should put it in range where something else could come in and revenge kill it, and Toxic Mega Amphy is also super reliable Also Toxic Mega Amphy doesn't really hurt it in my opinion, it never had a normal move set there was only different ones floating around with Thunderbolt and Dragon Pulse of course along with focus blast cottron guard, agility, discharge. It doesn't really hurt it tbh.

Edit:
+2 252+ SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 186-220 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 142-168 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 115-136 (37.8 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Actually SubCM Raikou can be beaten in a CM war if Mega Sableye has Snarl not just because it goes through Sub, it also lowers Raikou's Special Attack every time it hits. That's about the last thing I have to say, I'll just have to wait for the voting.
 
lol mega sableye banned?
that thing ko so easily
turn 1 252+ atk infernape flare blitz
turn 2 252+ atk infernape flare blitz and KOed (even without blazed turned on)
ayy lmao
Yeah sometimes, I honestly dont know if people do this to make this comunitty look bad =( or if they actually have mental disorders, with their shitposting on this thread and their dumb sets/situations/cores.
Shout out to the rest talk Tentacruel (Mega Sableye slayer) and the Delphox psychic core.
#X #WoA
 
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