How the hell does unbanning Blaziken do anything good for the meta? Fighting and Fire simply do not need the extra benefits.
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Ladder ORAS Monotype Discussion
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How the hell does unbanning Blaziken do anything good for the meta? Fighting and Fire simply do not need the extra benefits.
I would say probs Grass becuz Serp.
It was discussed over the last few pages, if you want you can look at the discussion there, but that topic is finished and Blaziken remains banned.
Because a type like fire which in the bottom 3 of usage for a good reason could use some extra benefit. Also crobro is a nickname given to rest talk slowbro lol. Also to catch u on a few ridiculous statements u made before, mega alakazams speed tier plus greatly can seperate it from orb zam. It out speed torn lopunny and manectric combined with taunt or encore it can be a pain for balanced teams in monotype and is extremely good vs weather teams. The serve different roles but the mega is better. Also mega metagross isnt bad, that just sounds extremely ignorant on ur end, its an insane wallbreaker with retarded bulk and put in a ton of work vs fairy w meteor mash and eq to hit klefki on the switch. Also gardevoirs mega form is an insane wallbreaker too its much better then regular with added bulk and hyper voice being super spammable. Not sure what the point of that post was but it didnt make much sense at all.
Also grass w np celebi, electric, dark and dragon can all beat mega bro reliably. Along with bug too
Personally, I don't like Mega Meta. It never put in any work for me. Whether I was using it wrong is another discussion but based on my experiences with if, I have a strong dislike for it. Also, it isn't a wallbreaker. If you want a Psychic physical wallbreaker, you use either Mega Medi or Victini.
Mega Garde is probably the best wallbreaker in the tier. Mega Meta is more of a sweeper, using its huge bulk, speed and power to clean up weakened teams.
Please tell me at least some of this is sarcastic. It's fine if you think Mega Bro was underwhelming because that's just an opinion. I can't fault you for that, but there's a few things I'd like to point out about your posts that are incorrect.
First, Mega Metagross isn't legal, so there's no way you can claim it has or has not helped you against Fairy teams unless you're referring to before it was banned, which was far too long ago for it to be relevant in the current metagame. And if it was legal, I can guarantee that Fairy would hate Mega Meta just as much as Mega Scizor.
Second, "Cro" sets are literally any pokemon that runs Rest/Talk/boosting move (usually CM)/attacking move. Suicune was just the original user of the set. It doesn't matter what pokemon runs it as long as it has the same general moveset, so Crobro is an accurate title for the set.
Last, this isn't so much a fact as it is an opinion, but Victini and Jirachi have enough physical power for Psychic. Mega Gallade and Medicham are great, but they're not mandatory and Psychic could certainly find a place for Mega Slowbro.
As for the discussion on unbanning Mega Slowbro, I'm not going to take it seriously unless someone makes a post clearly explaining why it should be unbanned. As of this moment, I see no reason to consider it. Those of you that want it unbanned, please give us a reason to take this suggestion seriously.
"Cro" sets are not any Restalk mon with a boosting move and an attack. The creator of Crocune lent his name to that set and you can't diminish it by slapping the prefix onto any derivative set you can think of. That's not okay.
Jirachi, as a physical attacker on Psychic, is not bad at all. I used to run a really hax-reliant set to piss people off.
Substitute / Meteor Mash / Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt
Of course a physical Mega isn't mandatory. If you ask me, it's just better. Psychic has a mass of Megas to choose from, making it, in my opinion, the second most diverse type, behind Steel.
Wtf you are really not getting this stuff. Anything can be named Cro that has rest/sleep talk/cm set, the owner doesnt care if you slap on CroCrobat, he made a title for a specific set, its not like hes taking all the credit and wants it to be only for suicune.
Also i know its your opinion but psychic has always been 2nd diverse, and flying has always been number 1. idk about you, i dont see a steel/normal, steel/ice, or steel/poison to make it the number 1 most diverse type.
Any calm mind rest talker is a cro-mon, if anything mega slowbro does the set better as it cant be critted and has better defencive and offencive stats. besides calm mind suicune has been around for like 10 years and do you really think some dude who played the game 10 years ago is gunna care if we put crobro as a term? Steel isnt the most diverse it has pretty standard teams the most diverse type i would say is water personally. But in terms of unbans could genesect be on the table? given it was banned on steel when it had an abundance of strong wallbreakers among other heavy hitters such as mawile could it be worth a look at it? not to mention it give steel the ability to check megachomp on ground without over centralising, its not much use for the fire match up on either bug or steel. with some of the more dominant things around it just feels like its worth a look, if anyone agrees it could be worth having a look i could start running some tests against a variety of thing? this is just as suggestion
I wouldn't unban Genesect for Steel. It doesn't really need it. With Genesect, Steel can sweep Ground if Ferro carries Power Whip. Steel isn't expected to beat its weaknesses; nothing is, but that would make the match-up unbalanced and give Ground a disadvantage, imo. The thought was nice, though.
I disagree as you would have to run ferrothorn in the first place and powerwhip is an undesirable STAB choice, also genesect cant sweep when exca amongst other things are in the back, it would just make that matchup more competitive as both teams would have to make predicting plays and the match wouldnt be garchomp sweeping its way through as it normally is
It isn't really supposed to be competitive. You expect Ground to beat the types it has the advantage over; same goes for every type. If you really want to win, you could run Agility Empoleon to try and beat Ground but I think Gastrodon would stop you dead in your tracks. Aside from that, unbanning Genesect to make ONE match-up more favourable seems a bit much.
This is competitive pokemon of course its meant to be competetive, every type should at least be given the chance to hold its own, some types are expected to actually beat their strengths such as flying for example the only one of its weaknesses it struggles with is arguably ice even then it has the tools to beat it, the meta strives for a balance which means types have competitive matches not just use a type because it has the most advantages. Given the fact you list gastro as a check suggests gene wouldnt be broken for that matchup, other matchups it would help with are water, fighting and electric. Theres no argument really for bug as it was use without being broken the issue is steels justification. You've yet to throw a proper reason as to why gene would be broken on steel only given false assumptions on how the tier should be
I didn't say it would be broken. I said it would be unnecessary.
I probably should have outlined my point of interest, the reason im discussing on steel is due to it's known fairness to bug and was the crux of a playstyle, the unban must be global so a point must be made in terms of it being a fair addition to steel which i can see, i dont see it affecting many of steels positive matchups and it would help it with its matchups that it lacks, thats the point im trying to make, the meta has shifted alot since gene was banned on steel, new team builds and megas have been introduced and i feel it is worth having a look at to see if it is still just as broken as it was back then
I wouldn't mind re-discussing genesect, granted, I'm personally not for it atm, but I'm up to maybe getting some good replays and seeing how much harm it would actually do. We already sorta know genesect wasn't broken on bug (however it was 1 of the big reasons why bug's usage was absurdly high), but, comparing that to steel, it probably will skyrocket if its added again. This is just an initial reaction, for me at least.
Then I want to ask you, why bother even saying that? What exactly makes genesect "not necessary?" I agree with The-Vale, it could actually benefit steel, especially against ground matchups, it could potentially be helpful, and they would now have a sweeper with a more usable speed tier (if you noticed, Excadrill, and Magnezone especially, are not the fastest things in the world when they have a choice scarf). If you were to run Douse Drive, you would always have another means to check Heatran, instead of relying on your own.
I'm gonna tell you this bud, bc I can relate to you a bit, think before you post. I'm not always the best at that, and that's something I think you need to do before you make a post. Some of the stuff your saying doesn't make a lot of sense/is irrelevant to the conversations going on. I'm honestly not trying to be mean to you, I'm just giving you some advice so your posts will possibly make a bit more sense/seem a bit more thought out.
Exactly what stun said, at this stage i'm more to the possibility of gene, i just feel times have changed enough for the possibility of suspect and i feel at least deserves a shot and am more looking at this stage to see how open people feel to the idea before fully trying it out, no use trying if there is a more overwhelingly negative response
Genesect was broken enough that it was decided that it needed be be banned even from Bug, where its favorite set (Scarf U-turn) is at its weakest against Stealth Rock because it has no team members that enjoy switching into hazards. On Steel, U-turn Genesect can switch around as much as it wants with multiple defoggers as teammates that actually resist rocks as opposed to being weak to them.
On top of that, you can't simply spam Fire moves when facing Steel. On Bug, Volcarona and Armaldo are the best switch-ins to Fire, so attacking Genesect with Lava Plume or Fire Blast was always a good idea and never had any consequences. If you're facing a Genesect on Steel, you have to play some serious mind games because Heatran would just love to take that Lava Plume, so spamming Fire becomes more of a gamble than a solution. Everything that was wrong with Genesect on Bug would just be amplified if it was allowed on Steel.
I will not support Genesect being unbanned.
Acast, honestly it isn't a bad idea to at least try it out. It wasn't brought up just bc the meta changed, (or just the sake of being unban-happy), it could possibly (again, I don't know for sure) be beneficial for steel teams. It was honestly never op on bug, bug was just a brilliant type at the time with it, because it did fair against a lot of matchups, with fire maybe being the only bad one. On top of that, Genesect was a pretty decent way to deal with Flying Teams. In the case of steel, they would now have a faster scarfer (if they choose to run it scarf), or Douse Drive surprisingly a great set. It was also give it more of a chance against ground teams. Just to clear things up Insignia Dignitas, it wouldn't give ground too much of a hard time, yes it would definatley bring pressure, especially with a Douse Drive, but Excadrill is a thing, and not much can switch into a banded 1 besides Skarmory, which ground does have good checks for (Landorus-I, Mega Camerupt, Mega Garchomp, Seismitoad).
My response to this is that, first of all, i highly supported hating on when the genesect+mega mawile cores was around, it was just insane broken. But after thats gone, i look at genesect and say that, what does genesect really cover for steel, that the type doesnt do alone, when you think of genesect, you think of it beating types like ice, rock, dark, blah blah. Steel can manage its own right now, and i do believe with the extra bug speedy bug support from genesect, steel can have a nice team against dark or ground which steel has a quite a hard time against, since hoopa-u and mega sab are god awful to play against and mandibuzz is a pain and genesect could come and deal with some damage with his u-turns, and idk anything but scald empoleon to do some work for ground, gene could come in and ice beam pokemon and REALLY HELP with the situation of how lando sweeps steel now.
Now this isnt gonna be OVERPOWERED since most genesect are gonna be scarfed, and you can switch into reliable pokemon to take in the damage like mamo seis or exca, i call genesect the less versatile greninja (since it needs scarf to outspeed lots of stuff like mega char y, and needs its both stabs instead of just getting any stab from protean). Genesect wont make matchups super hard imo, it will help steel with some mediocorely hard matchups and idk if people are gonna run mega scizor, 2 major weakness, blagh.
For bug, its gonna be the same as the Genesect era in summer, help out with flying and dragon.
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I agree pokemon is meant to be competitive, but the point is that monosteel just don't need genesect in the current meta. Granted, monosteel struggles again monogrounds, thats how a bad matchup works, but with offensive pressure + passive damage steels are able to beat grounds. So im not sure unbanning a borderline mon like Genesect just to make steel life more comfortable is gonna improve the metagame.The-Vale said:
Note that im not again a genesect unban, just don't use the reasoning which it helps monosteel bad matchups, prove instead it isn't broken in the tier anymore.
PD: Also i think you are underestimating how genesect works in monobug, just 5 months ago genesect was 1 of the main reason monobug was the 1st top tier type in the meta (it helped a lot again flying and dragon matchups)
As a Steel user, I would absolutely love to have Genesect on my team. As a Monotype player, I'd have to say this is a VERY bad idea. Do you know what happened the last time I got a great Ice move on Steel? When did this last happen.. Mega-Metagross with Ice Punch was when this happened, and I absolutely loved dismantling Flying and Dragon teams that have given me trouble before. On top of that, Mega-Metagross also had Grass Knot, which allowed me to check Ground teams even better! This all happened 11 months ago, and I owed about half of my OT wins for that month to Mega-Metagross Steel.
Now what you're telling me is that you're willingly going to give me a Pokemon, WHICH CAN GAIN A +1 SPA BOOST AT SWITCH IN, which grants me, and all the other Steel users, the ability to beat the match-ups that keep the Steel type in check. Access to Ice Beam & EBall give us enough to deal with what we want, but on top of that though, we can also have TBolt to punish Water even more; Flamethrower to help against other Steel teams; and U-turn for momentum. Trust me, it won't be pretty!
Now what you're telling me is that you're willingly going to give me a Pokemon, WHICH CAN GAIN A +1 SPA BOOST AT SWITCH IN, which grants me, and all the other Steel users, the ability to beat the match-ups that keep the Steel type in check. Access to Ice Beam & EBall give us enough to deal with what we want, but on top of that though, we can also have TBolt to punish Water even more; Flamethrower to help against other Steel teams; and U-turn for momentum. Trust me, it won't be pretty!
Gotta agree with arken 100% on genesect. As for the mega bro talk earlier while i was the one who started the convo i do want people to understand that i am aware of how unhealthy it once was. What did peak my curiosity was now that the metagame shifted im curious to how it might fit in. I think the
Unlike mega metagross, (which had ridiculus speed), gene is gonna be limited to a scarf since its really horrible average at best speed wont deal with major threats like landorus, and you can have only have 4 moves, 2 of those are obviously gonna be u-turn and iron head/flash cannon and 1 of the filler moves most likely will be ice beam for ground types, so that can only limit you to about 1-2 free expression moves, unless you wanna go out and throw energy ball/ice beam/flamethrower/flash cannon, it might be the same sets as before, and its download ability might not always give you the preferred boost you might need. So its very limiting compared to what megagross has in stored. But in no ways am i saying its like a regular pokemon competitively (as in balance conclusion).
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