Ladder ORAS Monotype Discussion

[Vid]

Let's Talk about Genesect

Introduction:
Genesect is very versatile Pokemon in general. having lots of viable moves. Lots of viable item choices. Genesect would be great addition for steel and bug teams but is it balanced?

Viable Moves/Items

Support/Setup Moves

-Light Screen ThimoTheUltimateBOBO used dual screen Genesect was very cool on his bug team
-Reflect
-Rock Polish
-Shift Gear
-Flame Charge
-Hone Claws

Viable Physical moves

-U-turn
-Blaze Kick
-Gunk Shot
-Iron Head
-Extreme Speed
-Zen Headbutt
-X-Scissor
-Explosion

Viable Special Moves

-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Techno Blast (water)
-Energy Ball
-Flash Cannon
-Bug Buzz
-Dark Pulse
-Hidden Power (Ground)
-Giga Drain
Zap Cannon

Viable Item Choices

-Choice Scarf
-Expert Belt
-Choice Band
-Life Orb
-Choice Specs
-Douse Drive
-Light Clay

Steel: Genesect on steel was type ban at first and it was ban first on steel for many reasons. The main reason is Genesect is one of the most unpredictable Pokemon that has ever been allowed in the Monotype metagame. On steel teams it is a Scarfer usually to check certain threats EX:Lando-I etc. But let's consider a couple things Rock Polish Genesect with energy ball plus ice beam is a bigger threat to ground than scarf is. Genesect would make steel rise in usage a lot. Will it help the metagame? My answer is no steel is an amazing type although it is not getting amount of usage it is getting before. Like I mentioned the rock polish set is a threat due to the assumption that Genesect is Choiced (Scarf). Choice Scarf also gives steel a type with an amazing defensive core lots of momentum because Genesect forces lots of switches. This is also the reason why the setup sets are threatening.Also its ability download basically it looks through the opponents defenses and gets the boost of the lower defense giving it a free choice band or choice specs for entering the battle. Genesect forces lots of switches and helps a type that would abuse the amount of momentum it provides with steel's immunity core and other bulky mons such as Ferrothorn. On steel Genesect just makes steel have the upper hand vs too many types in the momentum which means every matchup is a lot easier because of Genesect clicking U-turn to gain momentum.

Bug:Bug is a bit tricky to see if Genesect is broken because it doesn't get the amount of amazing teammates steel has. Some matchups that were mentioned it helps with are Dragon and Flying. Dragon in matchup table is 55% in dragons favor which is a very balanced matchup. The main reason for this is most dragon teams can be easily swept by Scizor once tank chomp is killed. Adding Genesect would make the matchup imbalanced making it a lot easier for Scizor to sweep the dragon team. In the past metagames choice band Genesect was one of the best sets to use on bug due to strong priority and amazing special attack to run Ice Beam to handle ground and dragon types. Also scarf being most common item in the Genesect Bug Era similar story as steel without the immunity core and sticky webs also helping it. Life Orb and Epxert Belt both being used for the set up sweeping sets unlike on steel the shift gear physical sweeper can be used because bug has a lot more viable special attackers than steel does. Also Rock Polish is a viable option for the same reason as it was on steel.

Suspect test?
I would say no to a suspect test because it only helps for 2 matchups and makes other matchups so bug easier for steel and bug to win. The main reason its easy momentum which will be beneficial vs almost every type making steel and bug win majority of their matchups. The two types it helps with is Flying (Bug) and Ground (Steel.. Flying vs Bug Genesect does benefit bug in a positive way by making the matchup a lot easier to win and an easier way to break the Skarm+Zapdos core. Ground vs Steel is 64% in favor of ground. which is a sort of imbalanced but not quite the most imbalanced matchup. Genesect would help this matchup a bit. It affects balanced matchups a lot such as (Steel vs Flying, Bug vs Fairy, Steel vs Dragon,Steel vs Psychic, Bug vs Water, Steel vs Water, Bug vs Rock) It only helps 2 type matchups while it hurts so many balanced type matchups. Why should a Pokemon that hurts the meta more than it helps should even be considered to be suspected. The idea of a test for Genesect seems good on paper for the metagame, but it affects the metagame in more negative ways than positive ways.

 

[The-Vale]

That's all fair point i just felt it was something at least worth discussing seeing as the removal of gene came at the time of type only removal, with it deemed to good for steel but i felt with the new team styles that cropped up it at least deserved some discussion, the points raised have helped inseeing its brokenness in there are some things i hadnt considered in terms of how it affects the good matchups

 

[Thimo]

I miss my dual screener ;_;
Add Magic Coat to support moves and add Light Clay to items in your post iVid

 

[Physical Tyranitar]

I miss my dual screener ;_;
Add Magic Coat to support moves and add Light Clay to items in your post The-Vale

Dual Screen Genesect seems like a really cool concept.



So, it seems to me that virtually everyone in this thread is pro-Genesect ban(it already banned).


This thread has discussed unbanning Mega Blaziken, Mega Slowbro, and now Genesect.

Let's be real guys; Genesect is far too powerful to be in Monotype. Not only is it one of the most unpredictable Pokemon in the game, but it's just a brilliantly designed Pokemon in general. I feel that sometimes, there are Pokemon that are created to be competitive. They have just the right movepool, ability, typing, and interface that will definitely make it popular. Genesect is basically the perfect example for that.
Genesect has a movepool that is so ridiculously useful and diverse that most of its usable moves have little to no context. You wouldn't expect a Bug/Steel Pokemon (great offensive and defensive typing) to learn moves like Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Gunk Shot, and Giga Drain, but it does.
It's almost like it's Hoopa-Unbound.
Unlike Hoopa-Unbound, however, Genesect isn't a ripoff from DBZ, has great typing, is bulky for an offensive Pokemon, isn't slow, and has epic wallbreaking capabilites, and the movepool to show for it. It also isn't a ripoff from DBZ.

In conclusion, I don't think Genesect can be unbanned, or even suspected for that matter. From what I can tell, unbanning Uber Pokes never really worked wonders for the metagame (besides Lando I guess).

 

[Ramy]

Lets stop discussing pokemon that were banned xD, they were banned for a reason, lets just wait for something new, see if volcanion is the new meta breaker hehe.

 

[The-Vale]

There are a fair few ubers within mono people seem to assume OU and mono are the same when they arent, the discussion on gene was something worth discussing due to the meta changes since its initial ban, theres no harm in discussing these things because the monotype meta shift pretty quickly and things that once were unbalanced may not be now, sometimes it takes these initial discussions to truly realise if something is still deserving of its ban or if it should be overturned

 

[thesecondbest]

I think this "why unban it" is a lazy and pointless argument. If something isn't broken, it shouldn't be banned. If someone can explain to me why Slowbro is broken here and not in OU, then I will accept it's ban. But saying we need a reason for an unban is like asking a scientist "If your paper doesn't have an application, why should we publish it?" It is very intellectually lazy and should not be considered a valid argument.

 

[Thimo]

Lets stop discussing pokemon that were banned xD, they were banned for a reason, lets just wait for something new, see if volcanion is the new meta breaker hehe.

The reason genesect got banned is because they wanted to simplify the rules

 

[Wyn]

I think this "why unban it" is a lazy and pointless argument. If something isn't broken, it shouldn't be banned. If someone can explain to me why Slowbro is broken here and not in OU, then I will accept it's ban.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-tiering-updates.3493087/page-45#post-5960563 here's the reason for why it was banned before. Its pretty simple- it has a godly defense stat (uninvested mega slowbro has more defense than max defense regular form, for instance), cannot be critted or tricked a choice item, can run rest to get rid of status and...well I think you should read that post. I don't think the metagame has changed so much from the xy times that unbanning it should be considered. All those reasons stated for why it was banned still hold true. Types like fire and steel(there are more) would still struggle with it. Its a different story in OU- lets say that a mega slowbro with psyshock, scald, rest and calm mind is a big threat to my stall team. Then I can simply replace something with, say, unaware clefable with wish+protect to stall it out, or one with calm mind to set up on its face. This luxury isn't available in monotype, every type has limited options. Isn't that the point of a different banlist in the first place?

But saying we need a reason for an unban is like asking a scientist "If your paper doesn't have an application, why should we publish it?" It is very intellectually lazy and should not be considered a valid argument.

We do need a good reason to consider unbanning something, I'm just going to quote what Acast said.

As for the discussion on unbanning Mega Slowbro, I'm not going to take it seriously unless someone makes a post clearly explaining why it should be unbanned. As of this moment, I see no reason to consider it. Those of you that want it unbanned, please give us a reason to take this suggestion seriously.

Seeing the last few pages all you've said on the thread is "mega slowbro isn't broken at all lol". Saying that you think it isn't broken is just your opinion. Now if you explain your reasoning, and it is convincing enough, then they would surely consider discussing about it.

 

[Omega-Xis]

I think this "why unban it" is a lazy and pointless argument. If something isn't broken, it shouldn't be banned. If someone can explain to me why Slowbro is broken here and not in OU, then I will accept it's ban. But saying we need a reason for an unban is like asking a scientist "If your paper doesn't have an application, why should we publish it?" It is very intellectually lazy and should not be considered a valid argument.

You seem to constantly post on this thread without taking into mind the restrictions of the Monotype metagame compared to OU. This is not OU. I can not take any mon OU and below and throw it on my team and say "Hey I have MegaBro taken care of now."

Let's get analyze the mon itself first, and then maybe look at some matchups.

Mega Slowbro is fat, boasting 95/180/80; considering it's ridiculous physical defense, it's not exactly frail specially either. Pre Mega, it also has the opportunity to get in and out and recover due to Regenerator and maybe spread some burns with Scald before you come in and finally set up at the point where your opponent can't do anything. You can also run Oblivious to prevent taunt and get CMs on mons that would normally Taunt in order to prevent it from setting up and have no other means of stopping it.

This gets to a point that Arken brought up earlier. You would literally have to pack toxic on at least one mon on every team in order to win, and that's even before taking into account that when this stalwart was allowed in the meta before, people were running Iron Defense/Calm Mind/Rest/Scald. Yeah, a lot of good Toxic is doing you.

Team Support:

Water

Water is already a type with fantastic options to support a mon like MegaBro defensively, balanced, or offensively. That's not something that many types can boast, and that's not even taking into account that Water mons in general have some of the best laid out base stats for mons that fulfill different roles. I'm looking at things like Alomomola (defense) and Mega Gyarados, just for starters. Also important is 2 mons, Azumarill and Lanturn, that get access to abilities that absorb Water's natural weaknesses.

To your point, bringing a special attacker seems like a great idea. Let's just look at some more commons ones and see what happens:

Magnezone: For more Defensive/Balanced teams, Lanturn switches in on this easily and the only thing on Electric as a whole that threatens this is Mold Breaker Ampharos, and more people are using Mega Manectric. Swampert also does fine if Zone isn't carrying HP Grass, and HP Grass is only run on 27.3% of Zones. Overall in Mono (and likely in OU) HP Fire has a far greater niche as acting as a trapper of Scizor, Ferro, Forre, etc.

Charizard Y: Sap Sipper Azu, Sp. Def Empoleon, Politoed (perhaps for a rainstall team, as I wouldn't imagine Bro being on a SS team) and Bulky Sp. Def Gyara also does very well. Essentially against Fire or Flying the Water player has no need to ever just let something die to Zard Y as a defensive core alone can outlast it or an offensive mon such as HP Rock Keldeo can threaten Zard Y and the rest of the team via Water STAB + something like Icy Wind. There's multiple ways that the Water team can break you down and you can bring this in at the opportune time.

M-Diancie: This is where it gets a bit more difficult since I'm no water expert myself, but on Rock all you have to do is take out Crad and you can find something like Terrak to get to at least +1 on and with nothing but HP (no Sp. Def investment)
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 145-172 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
you can definitely pull off another one then and then Rest. Because of Shell Armor, it can't be crit, and then the only thing killing it would be Toge on Fairy flinching it to death or Azu pulling off a BD, not getting burned, or not being taken out/crippled by something else on Water like Rotom-W or Lanturn.

Latis: Sp. Def Emp, speed control via TWave from Lanturn and something else can pick it off.

Breloom: I did say special but I'd wager some people think Spore + SD and Bullet would work. Well, too bad, Azu just says hi with Sap Sipper and oh well. Looks like your Breloom is inconsequential.

Really I could go on with a lot more examples. The only real thing that I think could perhaps really give MegaBro a headache is M-Venu, but that's really Mono Water as a whole.

Psychic

Psychic is arguably the best type in the tier atm. With fanstastic Defensive options, such as Mew, bulky Deo-D for hazard stacking and shrugging off hits with fantastic bulk and recovery, and Meloetta (which also provides great offensive presence) and Offensive options like Hoopa-U and Victini which prove to be banes to types where, chartwise, Psychic is at a disadvantage. MegaBro is just like throwing extra icing on the cake. Let's just look at a few of the mons I brought up before.

Magnezone: Scarftini cleans it unless it's Sturdy, but Psychic does not have trouble getting up a few hazards and then pressuring the opponent with the fantastic mons it has access too. Latias with Roost also does fine, the Zone would have to have HP Ice plus Specs and be a Modest Nature to even have a chance to do over half, and this isn't common. Essentially, MegaBro doesn't have to stay in and the Psychic player likely loses little for switching out.

Zard Y: Tini Bolt Strikes, Latis do very well since it's not really common for a Zard Y to be running Dragon Pulse.

M-Diancie: If you get to +1 and have taken out Azu prior, you'll more than likely be able to continue boosting and Rest off damage.

Breloom: Yeah, you're Psychic, so... In all seriousness, there's Tini, and Mew is usually running enough Speed to beat Base 70s, so you can burn it with WoW.

M-Venu: Actually this time I'll just say, "Yeah, you're Psychic." A Lati or Tini running Zen will do just fine here.


Those are just a few mons that could threaten MegaBro specially and in the case of Loom, one mon that people might think would be capable of boosting enough to break it. I think giving this back to Water and Psychic would do more harm than good for the metagame. I think it's all in all too easy for Water or Psychic to support it's mammoth defense and find it opportunities to start grabbing CMs.

Yes I realize this argument would be better with replays, but this has just come up and I also have finals next week, so I've been inactive. I do trust that other people will likely showcase some games, however. Oh and don't even get me started on things like Gastro, a good, capable player will be packing counters and for some mons that phaze, like Hippo or Skarm, especially against Water... What's a good thing for Hippo or Skarm to phaze into on water? My point is, I really think there's no risk to running this mon and it's rather unhealthy as some people thought about MegaEye.

I think it's pretty well-known among the community that even if I'm against something, I'm pretty open. If I start seeing replays where it's not quite as effective as I thought and it's decided that MegaBro should be suspected, cool. I'm not stubborn and I'm definitely open to reanalyzing something if there's a convincing enough argument to be had.

I think this "why unban it" is a lazy and pointless argument. If something isn't broken, it shouldn't be banned. If someone can explain to me why Slowbro is broken here and not in OU, then I will accept it's ban. But saying we need a reason for an unban is like asking a scientist "If your paper doesn't have an application, why should we publish it?" It is very intellectually lazy and should not be considered a valid argument.

And this is more directed at you, not in a harsh manner, however. You claim that people need a reason to say "do not unban it," yet you offer no compelling evidence or reasoning behind your claim. Please, put a bit more thoughts into your post rather than clogging up the thread with something like this. Please, if you want to respond, do a bit of digging, look at calcs, keep the restrictions of the metagame in mind. I'm a rather diplomatic person, and am open to discussion as long as it's compelling and not a hypocritical "calling out" when someone is doing exactly what they're accusing others of.

 

[The-Vale]

I think this "why unban it" is a lazy and pointless argument. If something isn't broken, it shouldn't be banned. If someone can explain to me why Slowbro is broken here and not in OU, then I will accept it's ban. But saying we need a reason for an unban is like asking a scientist "If your paper doesn't have an application, why should we publish it?" It is very intellectually lazy and should not be considered a valid argument.

One of the reasons is it can be very hard to shutdown as not all types get taunt, even then some of the types that do is just not worth running them, this would limit teambuildiing as those types would be forced to run taunt to stop slowbro, not to mention its stats make it ridiculously bulky before its set up. In short it was just unhealthy for the meta as it limited teambuilding and was just a general pain in the arse to play around

 

[The-Vale]

So what kind of hypothetical megas does everyone think would be good for mono type? I kinda hope ghost gets a Ghost Fighting mega such as Dusknoir with drain punch and iron fist, or a ghost fairy. Mega masquerain on bug would be useful to if it was a bug water and got useful boosts maybe keep intimidate and get the double intimidate off.

 

[Acast]

So what kind of hypothetical megas does everyone think would be good for mono type? I kinda hope ghost gets a Ghost Fighting mega such as Dusknoir with drain punch and iron fist, or a ghost fairy. Mega masquerain on bug would be useful to if it was a bug water and got useful boosts maybe keep intimidate and get the double intimidate off.

This thread is strictly for discussion on the current metagame. Speculation is more of a topic for the Monotype chat room on PS. (Although I admit I like your ideas.)

 

[Physical Tyranitar]

Imo Mega Slowbro is one of those things that are surprisingly easy to handle if you can shut it down while it's not at full power (kinda like Mega Sableye). That doesn't mean that it should be unbanned though.
But to simplify it, basically any Taunt User shuts down all Mega Slowbro sets, unlike you use an all-out attacker (not very common).
But again, all Mega Evolutions were created to naturally be viable. That is why there is no such thing as a bad Mega Evolution. From Mega Rayquaza to Mega Audino, all are usable to an extent, regardless of the tier they are in.
However, should your team lack Taunt or Toxic, you're going to have a hell of a hard time trying to destroy that thing. Hitting it physically is not really an option, unless you have something like Banded Tyranitar, LO Kyurem-Black or something. Either way, Slow can burn them.

One of the reasons is it can be very hard to shutdown as not all types get taunt, even then some of the types that do is just not worth running them, this would limit teambuilding as those types would be forced to run taunt to stop slowbro, not to mention its stats make it ridiculously bulky before its set up. In short it was just unhealthy for the meta as it limited teambuilding and was just a general pain in the arse to play around

Tru. As a Dark Player I find Slowbro-Mega easy to demolish, but some types have less diverse movepools than others. However, I have found it peculiar that the types that don't get Taunt often actually have other ways to defeat Mega Slowbro. Dragon has several wallbreakers that are capable of 2HKOing Slowbro-Mega at +1, Fairy has things like Klefki, Whimsicott, Mega Gardevoir, and even Mega Diancie that will give Slowbro trouble.

 

[all falls down]

Imo Mega Slowbro is one of those things that are surprisingly easy to handle if you can shut it down while it's not at full power (kinda like Mega Sableye). That doesn't mean that it should be unbanned though.
But to simplify it, basically any Taunt User shuts down all Mega Slowbro sets, unlike you use an all-out attacker (not very common).
But again, all Mega Evolutions were created to naturally be viable. That is why there is no such thing as a bad Mega Evolution. From Mega Rayquaza to Mega Audino, all are usable to an extent, regardless of the tier they are in.
However, should your team lack Taunt or Toxic, you're going to have a hell of a hard time trying to destroy that thing. Hitting it physically is not really an option, unless you have something like Banded Tyranitar, LO Kyurem-Black or something. Either way, Slow can burn them.

There are very few Taunt users that can consistently beat Mega Slowbro 1v1, the only one that comes to mind that is actually a viable Taunt user is Mew, but all Mew can do is burn it anyways. Mega Slowbro is simply far too strong for what it is (same Special Attack as Latios), so most Taunt users will get 2HKOd or 3HKOd or at the very least be crippled by a burn.

However while it would seem that it would be too strong on paper, I can see it coming back to the metagame just to test it out, as in my opinion it was banned far too quickly (just like Mega Gallade) without proper testing.

 

[Ramy]

In all honesty, is there any banned pokemon that looks a bit like it could come back into the current meta? Like idk about you, but i dont want insane stats, abilities, or coverage in our balanced metagame.

 

[Heatmor]

In all honesty, is there any banned pokemon that looks a bit like it could come back into the current meta? Like idk about you, but i dont want insane stats, abilities, or coverage in our balanced metagame.

We'll, let's see.

Mega Slowbro is fat, versatile, and you basically have nothing to lose when using it. It doesn't have many checks and counters, and when it does, they are handled by Mega Slowbro's teammates ( as Omega-Xis14 said).

Genesect is also versatile, great offensive and defensive typing, large movepool, and has that creepy unpredictable factor.

Mega Blaziken has immense power, ability to pass speed, and can sometimes sweep entire teams on end without breaking a sweat.

Greninja....oh Greninja...you poor thing...your epicness is what has (kinda) thrown you into disuse. You are very well the most unpredictable Pokemon in the game. You can turn into almost any type you want, without dying. You're a bit of a Kecleon.

Meta Metagross can break through the most seasoned of walls with a STAB Tough Claws Base 145 Meteor Mash, and his bulk, movepool, typing etc. is just OP

Basically, you're right. The Pokemon that are banned from Monotype were banned for a reason, and personally, I don't see how any of them should be unbanned.

 

[Fírnen]

M-Slowbro is a big advantage for Psychic type in my opinion.
That's THE counter to Bisharp Knock Off. (Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 140-166 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO).
But Psychic doesn't need it, it's already one of the most powerfull type.

Taunt can be useless against Bro, because he get Oblivious.

I don't think we've to bring back some Pokemons at the moment, the metagame is well like this.
(Perhaps Suspect this Hoopa-U but I'm not sure about this).

 

[The-Vale]

Tbh i dont have problems with Hoopa-U, its speed combined with low defence make it pretty easy to force out / revengekil. These factors become worse for hoopa when you take into account its horrible defensive typing having one immunity and no resistances not to mention the immunity is useless in monotype, with that comes 2 weaknesses to bug and fairy, the most prominent suer effective move i can think against hoop is U-Turn as most of the tine it forces the opponent to risk their hoopa and try for the revenge on what comes in or swap in something that takes the u-turn but brace for what comes in next. Overall i feel hoopa is over estimated by people in terms of its power to the point where they dont acknowledge the flaws it possesses

 

[Day Healer]

I think you are underestimating Hoopa-U like a lot. Its ok if you don't have not much problems with it with OP types, but a lot of other types (between electric, poison, the obvious ghost, fighting, ...) struggles or have no switch ins at all again it, it practically gets a kill everytime it enter the battle. They all need rely on very shaky checks like banded skuntank which cant even OHKO it with banded sucker punch and need play 50/50 games for pursuit, ghost and electrics are just RIP again it, fightings rely on scrafty or offensive pressure with scarfers/mach punchs hoping ur opponent dont switch to mega sableye, mandibuzz, slowbro.
I agree its defense its bad, but its not dat bad like it seems:

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 181-214 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 180-213 (59.8 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 251-296 (83.3 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO​

In return: (I personally use choice band, but u can calc with scarf variant too)

252 Atk Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 368-434 (95.8 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Hoopa Unbound Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 384-452 (141.6 - 166.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa Unbound Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 428-508 (124.4 - 147.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO​

Dats for physical defense, again special attackers Hoopa-U does far better counting on its 130 sp.def and 80 HP stats, the same bulk of latias.
Other calcs here too:

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 220-261 (73 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 217-256 (72 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound in Sun: 252-297 (83.7 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO​

Now about the speed: you say it is slow, i disagree. Sure, it isnt a speed monster, but 80 is the same speed as Dragonite/Mamoswine/Togekiss, that's not slow at all for a wallbreaker, it's the bare minimum it needs really.

To finish this, im gonna copypaste the post I wrote some time ago about hoopa-u, like the metagame didnt hardly change from there, if anything Hoopa u case is even worse now seeing how common the offensive core Hoopa-u/scarftini/mega gardevoir have become on psychic. (in dark it is a bit more predictable becos it is always scarf)

Hide

ok, im gonna go ahead and start a discussion on Hoopa-U.

HOOPA UNBOUND
HP: 80
Attack: 160
Defense: 60
Sp. Atk: 170
Sp. Def: 130
Speed: 80

Pros:
- This thing hits so disgusting hard, on both sides of the spectrum (physical and special)
- Contrary to mega pokemons, it can carry items, further increasing its offensive potential (Life Orb, Scarf, Band, Specs(?), Leftovers+sub, Assault Vest, etc)
- Very spammable stabs on Hyperspace Fury/Knock off, so a choice of power or utility
- Great coverage pool, where you can choose Physical and/or Special attacks (Psychic, Zen Headbutt, Drain Punch, Gunk Shot, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, Elemental Punches)
- Lot of people forget Hoopa-U have one of the best sp. def stat in the game. To show on perspective: it have the same special bulk than Latias and only 15 HP less than Umbreon/Sylveon, granting it lot of chances to wreak havoc again special attackers

Cons:
- Very bad physical bulk, with only 60 defense.
- Its speed although average, is not good for the tier standards.

So, in short, is Hoopa-u candidate for a ban or no? Personally i think yes.

From experience it have almost no counters at all, Porygon-2 and Klefki are the things closer to a counter.
There is no way to predict what move Hoopa-U is going to use, you think he is gonna use Hyperspace fury, but you find your Alomomola get smacked by Energy Ball:

0 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Energy Ball vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 478-564 (90.3 - 106.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

or your Azumarill get wrecked by Gunk shot:

252 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 478-564 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

lets see hippowdon:

0 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 304-359 (72.3 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
umbreon:
252 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
clefable:
252 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 351-413 (89.3 - 105%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
even mandibuzz fall to the rare thunderbolt:
0 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 250-296 (59.1 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yeah, you got the drill...

Maybe someone will say: yeah it hits hard, but is very revenge killable by any physical attacker. But the thing is... revenge kill it is easier said than done, with bulky behemoth partners like Mew, Slowbro, Mandibuzz, which can take most physical hits all day, and can even punish occasional physical attackers/U-turners with Rocky helmet, switching out Hoopa-U to make it wreak even more havoc later is easy.

So yeah, i could like to see a Suspect Test for Hoopa-U

PD: If replays are needed to help the discussion i can get some of them, but im not sure, like everyone knows already what hoopa u does in the tier

 

[The-Vale]

I've never underestimated it, you're making a presumptuous statement in saying 'with OP types' even the low end types have way of dealing with hoopa fire has victini and darmanitan, Fairy can twave followed by play rough, Ice has Kyu-B its few resistances and frailty in defence make it unable to switch in multiple times unless its on a psychic attack but on a dark or psychic mono anything can switch in on them also when you look on the matchup tables dark isnt overly benefitting from having hoopa still losing out to its weaknesses and psychic still has its poor matchups and is stronger on that type by the pressure it causes, Suspect test does seem a fair shout, i personally dont feel it is as strong as everyone makes it out to be as it can be played around, the reason speed came into factor is the fact its scarfed most of the time which wouldnt put it into the wallbreaker catagory but more late game clean/revenge

 

[scpinion]

The November usage stats are up on the Monotype Website.

Pokemon usage stats and sprite gallery: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html
Type Matchup Table and Imbalanced Matchups: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/matchup-tables.html
Metagame Trends/Type Analyses/Lead Information: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/type-analyses.html

As always, make sure to let me know if you need any help understanding something, or if you find any bugs!

 

[Day Healer]

The November usage stats are up on the Monotype Website.

Pokemon usage stats and sprite gallery: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html
Type Matchup Table and Imbalanced Matchups: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/matchup-tables.html
Metagame Trends/Type Analyses/Lead Information: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/type-analyses.html

Well fuck, psychic with hoopa-u is 1 problem, but flying unbalancing the entire tier is a bigger problem it seems.
Maybe we can postpone the hoopa discussion...

 

[Thimo]

I don't see a problem with either Flying, They get beaten quite easily by BoltBeam

 

[Isza]

Mind if you can screenshot the usage table? Can't view it currently