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Purply as an ice player you should have an idea what you were getting into. The reasons for Mega-Scizor being not viable for ban have been stated deal with it and move on. If this is more than you can take move onto a different type, the only thing stopping you is your mindset and mentality.
On another note what Purply has done is a good example of why people dont frequent these forums, just when we were doing meaningful discussion he hijacks 1-2 pages of this thread to post his vendetta against Mega-Scizor as if the first 3-4 posts against his argument weren't enough to show him nothing much was going to be done.
If your concern is legitimate it will gain traction, if not and when people say you have a lost cause on here, accept it and move on.
Purply as an ice player you should have an idea what you were getting into. The reasons for Mega-Scizor being not viable for ban have been stated deal with it and move on. If this is more than you can take move onto a different type, the only thing stopping you is your mindset and mentality.
On another note what Purply has done is a good example of why people dont frequent these forums, just when we were doing meaningful discussion he hijacks 1-2 pages of this thread to post his vendetta against Mega-Scizor as if the first 3-4 posts against his argument weren't enough to show him nothing much was going to be done.
If your concern is legitimate it will gain traction, if not and when people say you have a lost cause on here, accept it and move on.
i just asked why scizorite isn't banned. I don't hate mega-scizor, i said that, with megascizor, battles aren't funny. Maybe people don't frequent these forums because somebody isn't gentle. Are you sure of the rightness of tour opinions? Congratulations, But mine was a simple opinion. And you should learn what the word "respect" means, because you seem to be an hater, sorry if i wrong. And no, i won't reply to your messagge, because it's useless.
Some types just suck. And there's nothing we can do about that according to the current tiering philosophy. Electric is terrible since it can only get rocks with stunfisk and most mons have the same role - fast special attackers. Rock sucks because it has too many weaknesses even though Diancie, TTar, and Terrakion are great pokemon in OU and their other types. Ice also sucks because it has a lot of weaknesses, and Poison and Grass struggle vs the top 3 types (Bug Psychic Flying) without even beating notable other types. There isn't much that can be done under the current tiering philosophy. But if a mon beats a lot of types, like Zard X vs Electric, Grass, Steel, Bug, and more, then it will get banned. So stop complaining because you lose to Scizor. Unfortunately, Ice is not the only type that other people use, so Scizor isn't broken on the grand scheme of things.
I suggest we all move on from the Scizorite discussion. It ended. Everyone understands that it will not be banned. We can all start discussing more important topics now.
(To the forum moderators, sorry for this semi-one-line post. I understand if it gets deleted later.)
I would agree the forum moderators should look at the last few pages, the forums are not meant to be a casual discussion full of one line posts. You're meant to put thought and effort into your posts, and also try to have them be thought-provoking or bring up new points.
Anyway, aside from the small rant, let me post my thoughts on the new tier changes. I do like the idea of simplifying the banlist in an effort to adopt more of a Smogon-esque philosophy. To that end, the unban of Zapdos and Galladite make perfect sense, so I'm fine with those. I also agree that if the two choices for Genesect are allow globally or ban globally, than obviously it needs to be banned. Let me preface my next statement by saying I do not mean to imply that Zard X is not broken. However, I think the hasty banning of it was a mistake and a missed opportunity. Scp mentioned that many thought the Galladite ban was done too quickly without enough discussion, and in the same post he immediately banned it(yes, I understand this was a decision by the whole council.) To do this immediately after the first ever monotype suspect test (which if you ask me was extremely successful) is mind-boggling to me. What was the reasoning behind not bothering with a suspect test? I also don't like the idea of making so many changes so quickly. To my knowledge, no smogon tier has ever banned/unbanned more than one thing at a time, with maybe the exception of the release of a new game. Why not let the meta settle before looking into Xard? Again, I am not trying to say that it is not broken, I just have issues with the timing and manner of the ban.
The other thing I want to mention is Aegislash. This one is a really awkward topic, since none of the three options seem ideal. Having it be the only complex ban in the whole metagame seems unreasonable in my opinion. The second option, allowing it on steel, is also an awful idea for obvious reasons that have been discussed already(immunity core, matchup issues, etc.) To that end, I think banning it from ghost and adding it to the list of "collateral damage", as scp put it, would have the least negative impact on the metagame. Yes, ghost would lose what is arguably it's best pokemon, which is unfortunate. However, if we do indeed intend on moving away from making every type usable and focus more on looking at specific pokemon as broken or not broken, then banning Aegislash is really the only thing that makes sense.
TL;DR y u no suspect xard; aegi needs to be "collateral damage"
I would agree the forum moderators should look at the last few pages, the forums are not meant to be a casual discussion full of one line posts. You're meant to put thought and effort into your posts, and also try to have them be thought-provoking or bring up new points.
Anyway, aside from the small rant, let me post my thoughts on the new tier changes. I do like the idea of simplifying the banlist in an effort to adopt more of a Smogon-esque philosophy. To that end, the unban of Zapdos and Galladite make perfect sense, so I'm fine with those. I also agree that if the two choices for Genesect are allow globally or ban globally, than obviously it needs to be banned. Let me preface my next statement by saying I do not mean to imply that Zard X is not broken. However, I think the hasty banning of it was a mistake and a missed opportunity. Scp mentioned that many thought the Galladite ban was done too quickly without enough discussion, and in the same post he immediately banned it(yes, I understand this was a decision by the whole council.) To do this immediately after the first ever monotype suspect test (which if you ask me was extremely successful) is mind-boggling to me. What was the reasoning behind not bothering with a suspect test? I also don't like the idea of making so many changes so quickly. To my knowledge, no smogon tier has ever banned/unbanned more than one thing at a time, with maybe the exception of the release of a new game. Why not let the meta settle before looking into Xard? Again, I am not trying to say that it is not broken, I just have issues with the timing and manner of the ban.
The other thing I want to mention is Aegislash. This one is a really awkward topic, since none of the three options seem ideal. Having it be the only complex ban in the whole metagame seems unreasonable in my opinion. The second option, allowing it on steel, is also an awful idea for obvious reasons that have been discussed already(immunity core, matchup issues, etc.) To that end, I think banning it from ghost and adding it to the list of "collateral damage", as scp put it, would have the least negative impact on the metagame. Yes, ghost would lose what is arguably it's best pokemon, which is unfortunate. However, if we do indeed intend on moving away from making every type usable and focus more on looking at specific pokemon as broken or not broken, then banning Aegislash is really the only thing that makes sense.
TL;DR y u no suspect xard; aegi needs to be "collateral damage"
This was less of a series of bans, and more of a reworking of the ban system as a whole. We're trying to get rid of type bans, and while we considered implementing them slowly over the course of perhaps a month we saw very little reason to: we weren't going to change the outcome of it, and banning Zard X was the only way in which we could get rid of type bans without having a period in the middle where flying were stupidly broken.
In terms of Aegislash, we first need to work out how the removal of type bans and tiering philosophy fit in together, I expect this to become more apparent in the next few weeks.
There was a large discussion on Scizor and Mega Scizor a while ago, with emphasis on how it treated ice. The conclusion was that firstly, Scizor could be beaten, only Mega Scizor was unbeatable. Secondly, only Ice loses to Mega Scizor. Talonflame was banned because it was stopping three types from being able to do anything, and moreover that two of those types would be good were it not for Talonflame. Mega Scizor only truely stops one type from doing well, and that type will unfortunately still be bad even if we were to ban Mega Scizor. For that reason, I'm not going to be supporting a Scizorite suspect anytime soon.
The problem with Scizor isn't only his ability to decimate Ice teams, but Rock teams lacking Mega-Aggron[which most are], Fairy, and even Dragon teams. Scizor is a monster. It has the offensive prowess of a sweeper and the defenses of a wall coupled with recovery, strong priority and unresisted coverage. You can't ask for a much better mon in this tier.
When we look at their base stats, we see:
Hit Points: 70 Hit Points: 70
Attack: 130 Attack:150
Defense: 100 Defense: 140
Special Attack: 55 Special Attack: 65
Special Defense: 80 Special Defense: 100
Speed: 65 Speed: 75
These base stats are insane. When we look at Scizor, we see that a LO + Swords Dance set can plow through teams, while Mega-Scizor has the bulk to set up multiple Swords Dances to proceed with a sweep. Since you guys have deemed Mega-Scizor too powerful, I will be giving calcs against a regular, LO Scizor. Note that I will be using one spread for all of the calcs to avoid criticism and bias.
Ice:
It has already been established that Scizor destroys Ice, so I won't be redundant here.
Rock:
I have just seen that, even with Mega-Aggron, Rock has no real defense against Scizor, because Scizor can set up against common Rock mons, such as Cradily, Diancie, and Terrakion.
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Scizor: 129-153 (37.6 - 44.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Given his spread, Scizor can set up to +4 on Terrakion while baiting a Stone Edge Miss, and then proceed to sweep, OR the Rock user can switch out the Aggron, as Scizor sets up a Swords Dance, and set up another Swords Dance on the Fire Punch.
0 Atk Mega Aggron Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Scizor: 228-272 (66.4 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+4 116 Atk Life Orb Scizor Superpower vs. 248 HP / 8+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 298-353 (86.8 - 102.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
One rocks switch in and thats basically a dead Aggron, if Aggron was even being run. At this point, nothing can survive a +2 or +3 Bullet Punch, and Scizor can be switched out at a rocks HP to roost back later if possible or just go for that final KO once Life Orb and Fire Punch have eaten its health.
Fairy:
Fairy literally has zero switch ins to Scizor. If Scizor comes in, something dies. If you stay in to try and damage it, it can set up. Azumarill and Klefki CANNOT switch in. Yes, Azumarill and Klefki can win in a 1 v 1 scenario, but they are NOT the counters. I've heard users say: "Just set up Reflect with Klefki and switch out to another mon." How does this even make sense? I set up Reflect, take a Bullet Punch on the switch, and take another one the next turn to make the screens useless? "Just run HP Fire." Hello? Scizor EATS non stab HP Fires for breakfast, and can set up on the HP Fire user. In this case, lets say that the HP Fire user is Sylveonl.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 464-548 (135.2 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Oh, look, HP Fire OHKOs this spread(it won't to Mega, but thats a different story), but it doesn't matter because Scizor is FASTER.
Assuming that Scizor had set up on the switch(and if he didn't he has Heatran on Steel and Volcarona/Armaldo Bug to switch out to), Scizor OHKOs Sylveon.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 464-548 (135.2 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
At that point, nothing really survives unless Klefki sets up screens and the Scizor user is bad.
Scizor is by no means unbeatable on Fairy, but it gets a kill EVERY time that it comes in WITHOUT good merit of counter play, which is something that I say so often. There are solid answers to Scizor on Fairy, but they require: a team member-a team member, NOT a move-slot and/or a semi incompetent Scizor user. Unaware Clefable CAN be used, but it can only be utilized as a check, and it is hard walled by every Steel teammate nonetheless, while allowing Bug to easily counter play with Mega-Pinsir on the Flamethrower sack. Another option to use is Mawile, as it is usefull against Steel in general, but that is a wasted slot. I have used Mawile on Fairy, and get rocks up with it maybe 3-5/10 battles, depending on the matchup. In fact, I often times see myself using Mawile as a sack. My spread is irrelevant, but I'll share it with y'all, because the spread is a joke, just like the fact that a type must sacrifice a TEAM slot to be able to check a single threat.
WheresMyMegaStone? (Mawile) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Happiness: 69
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 40 SpA / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Fire Blast
- Super Fang
This set allows it to survive an Earth Power from Mega-Diancie most of the time. It can 2HKO Spd Mega Tyranitar and Togekiss, does about 70-75% to Skarmory, and can OHKO 248 HP Mega-Scizor AFTER Spikes. It can check +2 252+ Mega-Scizor after about two rocks switch ins.
Dragon:
Dragon has so many many choiced locked mons, so a +2 set up is easy. No, tank Chomp is not a valid Scizor counter, because tank Chomp doesn't have recovery, and I wouldn't be setting up a Scizor if tank chomp wasn't at the OHKO range.
+2 116 Atk Life Orb Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-B: 346-408 (88.4 - 104.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
(i'll update these later if needed, I have to go to work :s)
Hello forum members! Recently I posted a screenshot of my new stall flying team in a chat, where a member said they were going to take it and bring it to the council with quote "Do we really need this stuff flying around the meta."
This makes me a little worried, considering we just lost both of our meanie bird dragons. Now now, I understand the reasoning behind it in that stall is an anti-fun play style, "skill less", and even "retarded". I haven't used much of it in the last few weeks, for I started to use a semi-stall (labelled as balance ;d) build. With my main pressure in BellyCharge Zard-X being taken away, my first decision was to work on annoying the hell out of people.
As the screenshot suggests, there is nothing but bulk, bulk and more bulk. I know how this looks intimidating (hahah okay I'll stop now) but in reality, it's not that hard to deal with. Sub + Boost is a really big threat to this, especially if the mon already has decent bulk. Keldeo being the main offender, subs on something and Calm Minds in their face, scalding threats that like to come in on it. (Zapdos and Togekiss)
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zapdos: 165-195 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 248 HP / 200+ SpD Togekiss: 133-157 (35.6 - 42%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I know the second calc doesn't look very intimidating, but if Keldeo gets a burn on either of these they are forced to Roost / Heal Bell while Keldeo is still behind a sub, essentially giving it another turn to CM / switch to a threat / scald again.
Keldeo is not the only pokemon who can run a Sub + Boost set effectively, in fact a lot of pokemon who generally run sub ruin flying. Kyurem-Black, Gardevoir, mixed Hoopa-U, just to name a few. (I'm a poet xd)
Flying is extremely susceptible to Bolt-Beam now, but with it's main abuser in Genesect being gone, I won't delve further into that topic.
Although we have Zappy back, rocks are still as prevalent as ever. Albeit them being slightly easier to get off the field now, those who can properly administer pressure on the flying user will be greatly benefited from it. I know this isn't really a counter point, and more so relies on both of the players skill levels, type match ups, etc, but for ALL Flying teams if you can pressure with rocks up you have a great chance at winning. (If needed to back up this point, I could attempt to find a 184 turn battle of stall birds, that I did months ago with a friend. It was even, if not in my favour, until he got rocks up and applied the proper pressure to my defoggers, eventually winning him the game.) (Note: It was with Zapdos + Altaria/Char-X)
What I'm trying to get across is that even if we have Skarmdos(dos) back, imo Flying has more weakness then before, and although I'm sad to see that (and that I can't abuse it any more :[) I will take Zapdos for the bird dragons and go back to my corner. I should add that if you DO suspect Zapdos, and it gets type-banned (because Electric needs that mon more then ever right now, please do not global it.) that you should think about bringing Char-X back and having a suspect test for it too, if need be.
Side notes:
I agree almost fully with Darkrai, the only (i use that loosely) disagreement being the Aegislash remark. If ghost loses Aegislash it will probably be Ice - Rock - Electric tier, and I really don't want to see any more types go down that far. :[
Galladite: I've played around with this a bit on the new ladder (which isn't really meaningful atm) but from what I've seen it's not as strong as i thought it would be. HOWEVER, when players figure out how to build using Gallade, I believe there will be a problem as it is a relatively powerful pokemon by itself. In my other (hasty) post, I did comment on Galladite, and I'm still not sure how a global would affect fighting, so I would love to see some fighting users comment on this.
Gallade is extremely useful on Fighting. It can take hits from thundy-I (which is a big problem), kills lati@s, who threatens 80% of fighting, and has an extremely useful move pool, mainly an extremely powerful knock off. 2 main reasons I want Gallade to stay on Fight:
1. The special bulk lets it take so many hits that so many Fighting mons cannot.
2. If it's banned there will be 0 -viable- diversity. EVERYTHING would be medicham core with heracross or conk.
Nothing can replace Gallade. Don't ban it on Fight.
Hello forum members! Recently I posted a screenshot of my new stall flying team in a chat, where a member said they were going to take it and bring it to the council with quote "Do we really need this stuff flying around the meta."
This makes me a little worried, considering we just lost both of our meanie bird dragons. Now now, I understand the reasoning behind it in that stall is an anti-fun play style, "skill less", and even "retarded". I haven't used much of it in the last few weeks, for I started to use a semi-stall (labelled as balance ;d) build. With my main pressure in BellyCharge Zard-X being taken away, my first decision was to work on annoying the hell out of people.
As the screenshot suggests, there is nothing but bulk, bulk and more bulk. I know how this looks intimidating (hahah okay I'll stop now) but in reality, it's not that hard to deal with. Sub + Boost is a really big threat to this, especially if the mon already has decent bulk. Keldeo being the main offender, subs on something and Calm Minds in their face, scalding threats that like to come in on it. (Zapdos and Togekiss)
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zapdos: 165-195 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 248 HP / 200+ SpD Togekiss: 133-157 (35.6 - 42%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I know the second calc doesn't look very intimidating, but if Keldeo gets a burn on either of these they are forced to Roost / Heal Bell while Keldeo is still behind a sub, essentially giving it another turn to CM / switch to a threat / scald again.
Keldeo is not the only pokemon who can run a Sub + Boost set effectively, in fact a lot of pokemon who generally run sub ruin flying. Kyurem-Black, Gardevoir, mixed Hoopa-U, just to name a few. (I'm a poet xd)
Flying is extremely susceptible to Bolt-Beam now, but with it's main abuser in Genesect being gone, I won't delve further into that topic.
Although we have Zappy back, rocks are still as prevalent as ever. Albeit them being slightly easier to get off the field now, those who can properly administer pressure on the flying user will be greatly benefited from it. I know this isn't really a counter point, and more so relies on both of the players skill levels, type match ups, etc, but for ALL Flying teams if you can pressure with rocks up you have a great chance at winning. (If needed to back up this point, I could attempt to find a 184 turn battle of stall birds, that I did months ago with a friend. It was even, if not in my favour, until he got rocks up and applied the proper pressure to my defoggers, eventually winning him the game.) (Note: It was with Zapdos + Altaria/Char-X)
What I'm trying to get across is that even if we have Skarmdos(dos) back, imo Flying has more weakness then before, and although I'm sad to see that (and that I can't abuse it any more :[) I will take Zapdos for the bird dragons and go back to my corner. I should add that if you DO suspect Zapdos, and it gets type-banned (because Electric needs that mon more then ever right now, please do not global it.) that you should think about bringing Char-X back and having a suspect test for it too, if need be.
Side notes:
I agree almost fully with Darkrai, the only (i use that loosely) disagreement being the Aegislash remark. If ghost loses Aegislash it will probably be Ice - Rock - Electric tier, and I really don't want to see any more types go down that far. :[
Galladite: I've played around with this a bit on the new ladder (which isn't really meaningful atm) but from what I've seen it's not as strong as i thought it would be. HOWEVER, when players figure out how to build using Gallade, I believe there will be a problem as it is a relatively powerful pokemon by itself. In my other (hasty) post, I did comment on Galladite, and I'm still not sure how a global would affect fighting, so I would love to see some fighting users comment on this.
I'm limited on time, so i won't write a tldr reply. I agree that even with Zapdos, Flying has more threats than ever. I can see BoltBeam spam going through the roof in usage. My quarrel with the unbanning is that it got unbanned to keep simplicity on our ban list, but Zapdos got banned in the first place due to an annoying defensive core that's difficult to break for lesser used types all the while trying to improve the usage/viability of said types. But that's a post for another time
I just wanted to show a replay showing exactly how weak birds are to a BoltBeam and rocks combination while showcasing the potential strength of Gallade + Hoopa as an offensive core.
Guessing by the avatar, imagine that i battled a good player, which is why i saved the replay, despite his poor decisions in the battle( this is where that pressure comes in)
On flying i do feel their concern but i just would like to pose one question
WHOM ARE THE GOOD BOLTBEAM ABUSERS NOW? (pls note i ask this question in a genuine manner )
Moving on i feel that there isa monster whom most of us forget about: Manaphy
When i say monster i mean it as it is ridiculous how easily it can set up on so many types and easily sweep the remainder of teams is crazy. Also the amount of team support it gets is nice and i will post more in detail when i get home but what would the community have to say on this threat that is manaphy?
On flying i do feel their concern but i just would like to pose one question
WHOM ARE THE GOOD BOLTBEAM ABUSERS NOW? (pls note i ask this question in a genuine manner )
Moving on i feel that there isa monster whom most of us forget about: Manaphy
When i say monster i mean it as it is ridiculous how easily it can set up on so many types and easily sweep the remainder of teams is crazy. Also the amount of team support it gets is nice and i will post more in detail when i get home but what would the community have to say on this threat that is manaphy?
There aren't a lot of good boltbeam abusers, but the few that are useful in our metagame are Latios, Nidoking, Porygon-Z, Starmie, and Kyurem-B (Fusion Bolt/Ice Beam). I decided to hop on the Psychic bandwagon and my boltbeam LO Latios has really helped against Flying teams. It applies huge offensive pressure that even the Skarmdos core can't wall. I'm not saying that Flying is going to struggle at all, but boltbeam is a little scarier to them now than it used to be.
I haven't had the opportunity to use more than a handful of types in the past month or so, but based on my current knowledge, I think the idea that Manaphy is "ridiculous" is a little absurd. Manaphy may have Tail Glow, but Keldeo is far more threatening to most types with its higher speed stat, greater immediate power, and Secret Sword as its signature move. I know you didn't say anything about wanting a Manaphy suspect so I apologize if I'm jumping to conclusions, but it sounds like you're implying that you want it suspected, and I strongly disagree with that idea.
Shut, the fuck up. Sorry someone had to say that.
Anyways I wanted to chime my opinion on the recent changes. Tbh, I'm pretty quaint with everything except with Gallade. With the bug nerf, and now that, psychic is about to be very dominant. I think tbh the additional variety on psychic teams, but, if you look at the viability rankings, psychic can literally already build a team of 6 s ranked mons, with additional options, which is insane tbh. Galladite in itself may be interesting to see how that'll integrate, but, I feel like we should do something. If you ask me, idk who we look at besides Hoopa, but with the removal of type only bans, this makes thing more complicated than they have to be. Idk how I feel about that removal, bc yes it goes against Smogon's standards, but for the goal of a balanced meta, and making every type usable, that was a great way to go. And I was personally fairly happy with it, especially in special cases like aehislash, gallade, hoopa, ect. This made the types so much more playable, but banning on 1 type now costing another badly, like gallade and hoopa, we're gonna run into problems.
Genesect and zardx are finally gone. I'm generally happy with these changes. However, I'm not so happy about removing type only bans. Keeping things as simple as possible is usually the way to go, but those bans weren't anything crazy like ''blaziken+speed boost is banned but you can use blaze blaziken''. I'd say monotype is an unique tier that can't be compared to others. You don't have 1 group of viable/moderately viable mons which you can use to make a team. You have 18 groups (18 types) and each of them has its own viability rankings. For example, nidoking on poison is great, but not used so much on ground because it faces strong competition from landorus. Walrein on ice is great, but not really used on water because water has better options and ice is one of the most limited types in the tier. Aegislash shows that ''keeping it simple'' isn't always the best option. Nobody's really gonna miss those rocks and fire doesn't really need zardx, but I just wanna know if council will tend to make more global bans in the future. I know that goal of this tier is making every type usable, but Gallade is nowhere near broken on fighting. I wouldn't say hoopa is broken on dark. In fact, I think those mons are highly important to those types and that banning them will severly nerf fighting and dark. Type only bans in this case seem pretty justified to me, even though they don't follow standard rules. I just don't think that making imo unecessary global bans just for the sake of following standard rules is a good idea. Not in monotype.
Shut, the fuck up. Sorry someone had to say that.
Anyways I wanted to chime my opinion on the recent changes. Tbh, I'm pretty quaint with everything except with Gallade. With the bug nerf, and now that, psychic is about to be very dominant. I think tbh the additional variety on psychic teams, but, if you look at the viability rankings, psychic can literally already build a team of 6 s ranked mons, with additional options, which is insane tbh. Galladite in itself may be interesting to see how that'll integrate, but, I feel like we should do something. If you ask me, idk who we look at besides Hoopa, but with the removal of type only bans, this makes thing more complicated than they have to be. Idk how I feel about that removal, bc yes it goes against Smogon's standards, but for the goal of a balanced meta, and making every type usable, that was a great way to go. And I was personally fairly happy with it, especially in special cases like aehislash, gallade, hoopa, ect. This made the types so much more playable, but banning on 1 type now costing another badly, like gallade and hoopa, we're gonna run into problems.
Are we hopping on the "OMG x type is powerful, so a nerf is mandated" again? Psychic is good and Psychic just got better. Just because a type has 6+ S rank threats does not mean that you can slash all six on a team and call it good. How many S rank threats does Flying have? When did anyone use that as an argument to nerf it? Poison is the third least used type and has four S rank mons. Why don't we nerf Poison as well?
Until we find a proper tiering philosophy, I think that it is best to stick with the banning philosophy of other tiers, and that's by looking at the suspect to see if it is INDIVIDUALLY broken, especially since bans are now global. I can see a possibility of a Hoopa suspect/ban in the future, but doing so for the sake of nerfing a strong type is not the way to go about this.
Genesect and zardx are finally gone. I'm generally happy with these changes. However, I'm not so happy about removing type only bans. Keeping things as simple as possible is usually the way to go, but those bans weren't anything crazy like ''blaziken+speed boost is banned but you can use blaze blaziken''. I'd say monotype is an unique tier that can't be compared to others. You don't have 1 group of viable/moderately viable mons which you can use to make a team. You have 18 groups (18 types) and each of them has its own viability rankings. For example, nidoking on poison is great, but not used so much on ground because it faces strong competition from landorus. Walrein on ice is great, but not really used on water because water has better options and ice is one of the most limited types in the tier. Aegislash shows that ''keeping it simple'' isn't always the best option. Nobody's really gonna miss those rocks and fire doesn't really need zardx, but I just wanna know if council will tend to make more global bans in the future. I know that goal of this tier is making every type usable, but Gallade is nowhere near broken on fighting. I wouldn't say hoopa is broken on dark. In fact, I think those mons are highly important to those types and that banning them will severly nerf fighting and dark. Type only bans in this case seem pretty justified to me, even though they don't follow standard rules. I just don't think that making imo unecessary global bans just for the sake of following standard rules is a good idea. Not in monotype.
We will be aiming for all bans in the future to be global rather than type-specific. I also disagree with the idea that type-specific bans are less complex than Speed Boost Blaziken would be: with Speed Boost Blaziken you'd have one outlier that has to be learned outside of the main banlist, whereas with type specific bans you had up to 18 separate whole banlists to memorise as well as the main banlist.
Whereas if we had a Speed Boost Blaziken ban it'd be relatively easy to remember if you saw a Blaziken that it must have blaze, I'm not sure how easy it would be to remember whether Damp Rock was allowed if your opponent's Goodra set up Rain Dance, given it was one of about seven separate bans we had and also a very uncommon occurance.
By removing type-specific bans where possible, we make the metagame far simpler, which both helps it become more smogon-esque and also lowers the entry barrier for new players.
Are we hopping on the "OMG x type is powerful, so a nerf is mandated" again? Psychic is good and Psychic just got better. Just because a type has 6+ S rank threats does not mean that you can slash all six on a team and call it good. How many S rank threats does Flying have? When did anyone use that as an argument to nerf it? Poison is the third least used type and has four S rank mons. Why don't we nerf Poison as well?
Until we find a proper tiering philosophy, I think that it is best to stick with the banning philosophy of other tiers, and that's by looking at the suspect to see if it is INDIVIDUALLY broken, especially since bans are now global. I can see a possibility of a Hoopa suspect/ban in the future, but doing so for the sake of nerfing a strong type is not the way to go about this.
Ed, you can admit psychic just got a shit ton better with the bug nerf and addition of galladite. It's about to be extremely dominant, I never said it was broken. What I said was, it has more than 6 s ranked mons at its disposal. Which you can make a perfectly good team out of. And probably easily ladder to the top with little trouble. It's turning into almost like bugs old situation.
Well fighting got fucked royally. Psychic got buffed, big time. Zard-x and Genesect are banned which fighting had no trouble dealing with. Cancer-dos is also back, and fighting has arguably one of the worst times dealing with SkarmDos core. Good luck to all of the fighting players.
Acast i will not suggest a manaphy suspect at all considering most types are able to check/beat it reliably all i wanted was that it is pretty strong considering a +3 boost is pretty op imo but yeah it aint that good in comparison
I know Mega-Pinsir has been a hot topic lately and when some people started calling it Talonflame.jr, so i decided it was a good time to make a post.
Grass
As we all know Grass doesn't really enjoy the presence of Mega-Pinsir in this tier, but Grass has some checks even tho some of them are kind of shaky.
I'm going to quote user all falls down because i think he made some amazing points in the old thread and showed some checks for grass against Mega-Pinsir:
AFD:
There are actually ways to kill Pinsir for Grass; there is a very effective rotom mow set that does wonders (I think it's Ticken's set)
It outspeeds Pinsir by one point, can choose to burn it or volt switch and then have Ferrothorn finish it off with iron barbs, etc. It is also not completely deadweight because its trick scarf and speedy burn is very useful in many matchups, and helps grass vs Pokemon like Staraptor, Skarmory, and more.
0 SpA Rotom-C Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 170-204 (62.7 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Rotom-C Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 222-264 (81.9 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate burned Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 180+ Def Rotom-C: 90-107 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- 18% chance to 3HKO
You can also just use max speed max special attack and OHKO with thunderbolt, as Quick attack fails to OHKO:
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-C: 183-216 (75.9 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Me:
For my personal experience i have usually been able to kill Mega-Pinsir using Rotom-M and Ferrothorn. Of course there is also sash breloom but i wouldn't really call it to be check. You can use also the godly timid whimsicot and paralyze it with Stun Spore
I have to agree that Mega-Pinsir is still grasses biggest threat but it doesn't steamroll grass like the way for example Mega-Scizor does to ice.
Fighting
I know that there have been many players saying that Mega-Pinsir destroys Fighting and that maybe true against some teams but there are ways for fighting to take it down.
Coballion can take Quick Attacks fairly easily and then cripple it with Thunder wave or kill it with stone edge(if you are running that godly set) or deal some nice damage with Iron Head/Volt Switch.
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 156-184 (48.1 - 56.7%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Terrakion can take a 2+ Quick Attack and Outspeed it and OHKO it with stone edge/rock slide.
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 211-250 (65.3 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Conclusion
In the end you have to remember that Mega-Pinsir is also 4x weak to stealth rocks what is not really good on a bug team if you are running already Volcarona. Its also Weak and Slow before mega evolving. In my opinion Mega-Pinsir is not broken but its still a S ranked offensive threat that is not overrated at all. Im going to say No Ban.
I would also like to point out how biased some players here can be, I'm not going to say names but I've seen a lot of players supporting this ban, When they actually prefer using Mega-Heracross and say in private chats how its not that broken. This makes me kind of angry but well theres nothing that really can be done. I guess this community has more selfish players than i thought :(
^to expand on that point, grass is one of those types like ice that are basically doomed to be crappy unless we ban like 20 different mons from monotype. similar to scizor vs ice or lando-i vs poison, it's technically beatable if you plan for it in advance
^to expand on that point, grass is one of those types like ice that are basically doomed to be crappy unless we ban like 20 different mons from monotype. similar to scizor vs ice or lando-i vs poison, it's technically beatable if you plan for it in advance
I strongly disagree that Grass is on the same level as Ice. Unlike Ice, Grass has access to at least one amazing mega, is not weak to Stealth Rock, and is not weak to some of the most common priority moves in the metagame unless you count Ice Shard, which is easily walled by Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn anyway. Unfortunately Ice is in a situation in which you would need to ban a quarter of the metagame to make it good. Grass, on the other hand, really only has one mon that completely steamrolls it: Mega Pinsir (notice I said "completely". I realize Grass has a tough time against other types and mons, but at least it has relatively reliable checks to those other threats). Yes, Grass has a shaky check in the Rotom-Mow set that Azelea mentioned, but Ice has a shaky check for Scizor too in Specs Walrein. And no one is going to say that Ice has much of a chance against Scizor even with that Walrein.
Grass may not be a top type with Mega Pinsir gone, or even a mid-range type, but it would have the opportunity to be much more viable than it currently is. Ice would stay at the bottom even if Scizorite were banned.
I'm not outright saying that Pinsirite needs to be banned. I just think that out of all the mons on the table right now, it's at least in the top 3 for pokemon that should be suspected. I do want it to be suspected, but only because it deserves to be put on the chopping block and judged by the community. If the community decides it should not be banned, then I won't have any objections and I'll be satisfied that it was at least put to the test.
