Resource ORAS OU Metagame Discussion

[bludz]

I don't know if that's true. It's definitely true of Raikou, but you won't really want to switch your Ttar in on a potential focus blast or even grass knot from thundy. I think electric types are simply changing the guard. I've been seeing Rotom-W and Zapdos more and Thundy still sees about as much play as before. The meta just doesn't favor Raikou and Mega Man as much as it used to. At least this is the feel I'm getting from ladder. I don't honestly know what the tournament scene is looking like these days.

Well the "drop in electrics" mostly referred to Raikou and Manectric - offensive Electrics. Manectric is totally owned by Tyranitar as well. Thundurus also can't deal with Excadrill when sand is up and doesn't enjoy 1v1 situations vs Scarf or Chople Ttar. Thund is sorta different but took a hit thanks to Weavile, bulky grasses (Amoong like I mentioned) combined with how difficult it is to keep hazards off now (this actually applies to all, but Thund is the hazard weak one)

Rotom yes is insane right now but it was also never really classified in the same category as Mane/Raikou/Thund given that those are offensive whereas Rotom is a bulky pivot/annoyer.

 

[Soothing Deoxys]

Swampert (Swampert-Mega) (M) @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rain Dance
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch

Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover

Format: Singles OU.

I am trying to get serious about competitive Pokemon and I'm currently trying to create an OU team but I need some help.

Should I use the offensive stallbreaker Heatran set or the offensive set?

I have a feeling I should use the offensive set. And where should I go from there?



Offensive Stallbreaker

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic

Offensive

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Stealth Rock​

 

[/B/utterfree]

So what are peoples thoughts on full weather teams these days? Obviously Rain is the best team to go full weather on with Mega Swampert, but Sun is also pretty good with CharY.

My favourite weather is Hail. However, I have not been really good with making a consistent Abomasnow team since even the beginning of Gen VI, especially coming up with a primary playstyle so I can pick my other five teammates.

My second favourite weather is Rain. I can maybe consider a Swampert-based team for Rain, since I never really liked DrizzleToed as anything other than a support character for the Abomasnow teams I tried to craft in Gen V, and genuinely preferred other BulkyWaters (Energy Ball Jellicent) when teambuilding came to light. Mega Swampert doesn't need much to set up on, although I'm surprised Swampert can't learn Drain Punch. I guess that means I should grab a Blissey or an Altaria, since Cleric support is an absolute must.

Sand's going to be a thing because of both Hippowdon and Tyranitar being exceptionally good Pokemon throughout ORAS OU. However, I have not considered making a specifically Sand-themed team. It would be rather simple to do, and maybe I can get Sand Stall working for me again.

I would be content with making a Sun team if I actually liked Charizard at all. Char-Y/Victreebel sounds like fun times, and I can play around with mixed attackers and Dugtrio. I say Victreebel instead of Venusaur because of Weather Ball, and the fact I already have a Mega slot filled with Char-Y. As such, if I wanted a Venusaur-based team I'd try to focus on Venu being my Mega, which means Thick Fat instead of Chloro.

 

[NotSoClutch]

I've tried and had some success with full sun in the past (if you'd like to know how to build sun, feel free to ask), but the meta has not been kind to it. The only weather I'd really go all out on would be rain. Sand is really strong right now, but generally with sand it's all about supporting an Excadrill sweep not the weather itself.

 

[Halcyon.]

Any sun using more than just Sleep Powder Venu+Zard Y is a waste. I used that to ladder and not only was it super fun, but people were not prepared for Sleep Powder Venu at all. Granted this was way back in the fall so things may have changed.I haven't tried Diancie + Ninetales like AM said so I won't comment on it.

 

[MANNAT]

Since the usage stats just came out, I wanna just points out a few things that I noticed in the 1695 stats.

Raw Usage Stats

• Landorus gained 4% usage while Garchomp dropped 3% to cement lando's place as the premier bulky ground in the tier
• Volcanion basically replaced heatran in terms of usage
• Tyranitar rose 2% in usage with the release of volcanion and pursuit trapping generally becoming more common
• Heatran's usage dropped down 3% with the release of volcanion
• Talonflame dropped 3% in usag with the increased usage of landorus over garchomp and rise in ttar
• Amoonguss rose from ~2% usage to ~5% which catapulted it from RU to OU, showing the huge shift towards bulkier teams in general recently.
• Starmie usage dropped by 3% and Latios usage rose 1%, Latias usage rose 1%, and Mega Latias rose 1% to show the trend of the Lati twins being preferred over Starmie as methods of hazard control continuing.
• Rotom-W dropped from #6 in usage to #9 in spite of fast rotom being a pretty solid volc check.
• Azumarill usage plummeted 4% with the introduction of Volcanion
• Chansey gained a bit of usage with another great special attacker being released and fat teams generally becoming more common.
• Weavile leaped up 3% in usage with band weavile gaining steam and pursuit trapping generally becoming more common.
• Sableye gained 2% usage to show the shift towards bulkier teams

Moveset Stats

• More Bisharps run adamant now than last month.
• Rocky helmet jumped up 7% usage on landot
• Rocks Clefable gained 5% and LO clef jumped into clef's item usage stats to show the slight rise of LO rocks clef, which is a cool set.
• Icy wind dropped in usage by 5% while HP Electric jumped by 3% on Keldeo as a coverage option, so think twice before switching fat waters into it automatically if you can O.o.

These are just a few things that I noticed in terms of usage stats recently that point to metagame shifts, if you guys noticed anything else interesting or want to discuss some of this further, please do. These were more just things that I noticed before. I hope that this post was enlightening for you guys. :]

 

[Gotham-Mimiqui]

Hopefully the meta will change drastically with the addition of the new generation and we will all start talking about the pros and cons of each Pokémon. The current meta is basically Lando-T, Clefable, Volcanion, Ferrothorn. Theres some nice mons peaking in usage like Tangrowth and friends but im really starting to get bored of the XY/ORAS meta.

Rowlett, considering his typing, can't say anything until we see its second ability and stats. Would love a Special attacker with Hurricane and Gale Wings.
My best hope for Litten is a jank Fire/Poison to become an amazing pivot into Fairy types. Flash Fire as ability, maybe.
Popplio will probably end up water/fairy, but I cant see anything concerning him or his would-be ability.

Solgaleo with an Electrik/Fire typing considering his powerranger-robot look, and Lunaala with Ghost/Fairy, considering how the Fairy type is associated to the moon (clef family). Dark/Fairy is a possibility, but he looks a lot like a ghost. If these two get balanced stats, I would love seeing them in OU.

The metagame really needs new stuff. The addition of Hoopa and Volc were great changes, but thats TWO Pokémon...

 

[Karxrida]

Theorymon about the next Gen at this point is completely pointless when we lack stats, moves, abilities and final evolution types. It would boiling down to wish listing when we have so little info, and that doesn't exactly invite good discussion.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Theorymon about the next Gen at this point is completely pointless when we lack [...] final evolution types.

Well, we may have a breakthrough on that, but yea, it's pointless outside of that.
Fun to do, but not in this thread. The meta is just so bland right now, not much else to talk about. ._.

 

[Expert_Occultist]

What's wrong with a bland meta? There's nothing broken and all playstyles see a good amount of play. There may not be anything to talk about but in my opinion, this is the kind of meta any gaming organization should strive for. This is a great place to leave the XY meta before the S&M meta. Believe me, when Smogon predictably unbans a bunch of broken shit because NEW META people will be looking to the ORAS meta for what they want the S&M meta to be :)

 

[Funbot28]

I mean I find ORAS OU to still have unexplored properties behind it. I mean if we look at it, Hoopa-U was banned pretty much solely on the discovery of its Specs set ~8 months after it was released. Also the popularisation of Pursuit trapping and Mega Latias balance teams really showcase this phenomenon. Saying that the metagame is bland is kinda making a fallacious claim to me.

Edit: Also hello we also got a new mon like a month ago, jeez at least Gen 5 did not have new mons introduces smack in the middle of the game's life (BW2 does not count).

 

[Karxrida]

edit: Also hello we also got a new mon like a month ago, jeez at least Gen 5 did not have new mons introduces smack in the middle of the game's life (BW2 does not count).

Meloetta, Keldeo, and Genesect all got officially released in 2012, a good chunk of time after Gen 5 started in 2010. I assume Keldeo had a major effect on the meta since it got suspected twice, while Genesect got banned.

 

[Celticpride]

Hopefully the meta will change drastically with the addition of the new generation and we will all start talking about the pros and cons of each Pokémon. The current meta is basically Lando-T, Clefable, Volcanion, Ferrothorn. Theres some nice mons peaking in usage like Tangrowth and friends but im really starting to get bored of the XY/ORAS meta.

Rowlett, considering his typing, can't say anything until we see its second ability and stats. Would love a Special attacker with Hurricane and Gale Wings.
My best hope for Litten is a jank Fire/Poison to become an amazing pivot into Fairy types. Flash Fire as ability, maybe.
Popplio will probably end up water/fairy, but I cant see anything concerning him or his would-be ability.

Solgaleo with an Electrik/Fire typing considering his powerranger-robot look, and Lunaala with Ghost/Fairy, considering how the Fairy type is associated to the moon (clef family). Dark/Fairy is a possibility, but he looks a lot like a ghost. If these two get balanced stats, I would love seeing them in OU.

The metagame really needs new stuff. The addition of Hoopa and Volc were great changes, but thats TWO Pokémon...

The current OU forum in general is for XY / ORAS. Next gen (assuming SuMo is next gen which it most likely will be at this point) this forum will move to closed forums and there will be a new OU forum created to discuss the metagames associated with those games. Keep the SuMo hype / news discussion to the Orange Islands forum when it comes to discussing new games for the time being.

Edit: wasn't entirely directed at the quoted post more that I've just been seeing that stuff occasionally around the forum

 

[Of Moose & Men]

What's wrong with a bland meta? There's nothing broken and all playstyles see a good amount of play. There may not be anything to talk about but in my opinion, this is the kind of meta any gaming organization should strive for. This is a great place to leave the XY meta before the S&M meta. Believe me, when Smogon predictably unbans a bunch of broken shit because NEW META people will be looking to the ORAS meta for what they want the S&M meta to be :)

What's wrong with it is, that everything is the same and for the most part has been for nearly 2 years. Yes, we have spikes when something new is introduced, but for the most part it just returns to its fat natural state. Being exciting doesn't automatically mean something broken needs to be introduced. Yes, the meta is a tiny bit more diverse now than it was say a few months ago, but not enough for me to be content with it. Late XY I actually enjoyed the meta because you had a decent bit of diversity going into OU. When someone asks what's the best archetype, what's the answer? Right now, BO. That doesn't promote diversity in my opinion, that promotes using BO. What I want is a meta where you see a bit of everything on a somewhat constant basis. That's me, clearly not everyone shares that opinion, though, I know I'm not the only one. I want the answer to that question to be "whatever playstyle you prefer", which yes, is a lot to ask for, but that's what I look for. Right now it's, take Clef, take Torn, add a mega, add a rocker, and you have 2 whole slots to work with, with only very slight deviations. That's not interesting to me.

I promise you, when Sun and Moon do settle down, I will not be wanting ORAS. If it is that bad, I'll be wanting late XY. ORAS is terrible imo, and nothing is changing that any time soon. This has been my opinion of ORAS since pretty much the Megagross suspect, which caused this btw, but I digress.

 

[Martin]

As much as I think that other gens' OUs are more fun than ORAS is, I think that the metagame is in a very ideal state as it is now. Unlike BW, where the meta is heavily centralised around sand spikes stacking, the ORAS metagame doesn't have any one heavily dominant archetype or sub-archetype that defines the meta. Like, BO is technically the best, but you have a lot of variety with regards to use of things like semistall, balance, BO and their various sub-archetypes. There is no one super dominant Pokémon (Clefable is the best but not on the scale of gen 1 Tauros, gen 2 Snorlax, gen 5 Tyranitar etc.). The fact is that, outside of the two extremes of the offense-defense spectrum (full stall and ultra HO (although the latter can blast through low ladder)), there aren't really any inviable or low-viability playstyles, and that is basically the definition of a metagame which is ideal, healthy, balanced or whatever word you choose to be appropriate here.

 

[AM]

What's wrong with it is, that everything is the same and for the most part has been for nearly 2 years. Yes, we have spikes when something new is introduced, but for the most part it just returns to its fat natural state. Being exciting doesn't automatically mean something broken needs to be introduced. Yes, the meta is a tiny bit more diverse now than it was say a few months ago, but not enough for me to be content with it. Late XY I actually enjoyed the meta because you had a decent bit of diversity going into OU. When someone asks what's the best archetype, what's the answer? Right now, BO. That doesn't promote diversity in my opinion, that promotes using BO. What I want is a meta where you see a bit of everything on a somewhat constant basis. That's me, clearly not everyone shares that opinion, though, I know I'm not the only one. I want the answer to that question to be "whatever playstyle you prefer", which yes, is a lot to ask for, but that's what I look for. Right now it's, take Clef, take Torn, add a mega, add a rocker, and you have 2 whole slots to work with, with only very slight deviations. That's not interesting to me.

I promise you, when Sun and Moon do settle down, I will not be wanting ORAS. If it is that bad, I'll be wanting late XY. ORAS is terrible imo, and nothing is changing that any time soon. This has been my opinion of ORAS since pretty much the Megagross suspect, which caused this btw, but I digress.

Yeah that's what we call a metagame stabilizing and there's nothing wrong with that since a stabilized metagame promotes healthier play, the entire point when it comes to working on a meta. XY was argued as one of the better metas because of its "Fat state" mostly bulky offense since it wasn't, unlike what I'll call previous eras, as jacob put it up, with metas like Landorus and Greninja, just hardcore defense or offense playstyles the only ones being able to function. I think it's not fair to actually call XY diverse at all since it took so long for the broken stuff to get out of the tier and we were going the same route of possibly suspecting Greninja with Landorus probably coming right after, putting us back to more or less a similar state we're in now. Like the metagame was literally just starting at the end of XY with the boon of different playstyles such as CBB Offense, Crystalized that emphasized the Venutran archetype, and Pinsir offenses, etc. I played that same metagame and the amount of diversity was definitely not more than ORAS, maybe about equal but you're exaggerating some supposed diversity here. You could make that same argument of the meta "being bland" with XY if your only measurement is just going off of ladder where dudes will use the same thing all the time. A lot of the guys like to reminisce about XY but you can't just throw out the generalization like it was totally superior to it cause I know guys I've talked to briefly like Tesung and McMeghan thought XY was a really boring metagame. I don't mind XY either but there's was a bunch of stuff I could've definitely done without no matter how much hype it gets as this amazing metagame. This current SPL there were tons of variety being used in builds, hell even guys like CBB used bulkier stuff contradictory of his all out offense playstyle a lot. xray couldn't stop using defensive Tangrowth on all of his builds and before then people were using the AV set which is how that trend gained traction. M-Heracross gained relevancy through it's bulkier variants. This is a meta where you see a bit of everything and the builders of the tier especially newer guys like ABR (but oml people need to stop riding this mans dick everytime he does something) and GeeMick (long time builder in the OU circuit who just got noticed this past SPL) among many many others are pushing forward new ideas to capitalize on the metagame.

Clefable being the best pokemon in the metagame right now doesn't mean there's anything wrong with that and its usage, it's a good mon and like good mons they will see lots of usage / viability on many teams. We could probably debate this but Clefable was arguably one of the best Pokemon besides past suspects even in the later XY era after Aegislash for the same reasons before, minus the Thunder Wave aspect. In OLT1 Bloo v Tele was one of the most hyped up series of that tournament by far. Most people thought it would be a total landslide but it wasn't, Tele won both of his last games with CM Clefable showing how powerful it's been. The spike of Greninja in late XY fostered a Hyper Offense team (which is in showcase if you have the time to look) with a Clefable in it, something along the lines of Manectric, Weavile, Starmie, Clefable, and two others I forgot Rosens team. That's significant to show how strong XY Greninja was and how Clefable could band-aid Hyper Offenses even it sapped tons of momentum on the team. If you haven't noticed Torn-T is slowly gaining less traction as it did before during maybe I would say +2 months ago when it was impossible to prep for after the Greninja ban. Well yes you add a mega, to not sound as sarcastic archetypes for different cores and fundamentals will be set in more stone as a metagame stabilizes, the Mega Latias spike balances is a good example of that as they follow similar typing and synergy formulas. You can do a lot in two slots, more than you're giving it credit for. You can capitalize on metatrends, you can fix problems with the team, you can try out new stuff if you're first 4 are set in stone. Granted if you're using something like stall you don't have too many options when you consider stall needs to focus on threat management from a defensive position where its damage output will be much less than a typical team. However, just cause your average player and builder both combined and equally are god awful doesn't mean you should based an opinion off of that when there are definitely guys who are both good and innovative in ORAS OU. I've been liking ORAS for the majority of its time here, anyone who knows me knows I love building in the meta and trying tons of different things while bringing back old school techs dudes have forgotten about.

About your Sun Moon point. When Sun and Moon come out it's gonna be exactly how when ORAS came out, probably worse because of a new generation. Everybody will want to go back to ORAS because Sun and Moon will inevitably just have so much stuff to ban / be a nightmare at the first half of the meta, due to the fact they drop down stuff again. So we're gonna sit through another pointless suspect of Deos and all the stuff we basically banned to make the meta more stable so there's an equal playing field. I've talked to you before and you're an ok dude and while it's your opinion on your stance of ORAS there are guys who are, and have, taken this for granted and used these points as a justification to state them as blind facts. It turns arguments into really petty points of discussions and when you have guys seriously thinking Chansey is an issue in the metagame (I've literally had a guy one time on my time in Council ask me to suspect having only 3 recovery moves on a stall team, wasn't exactly a noob either) or other nonsense stuff to entertain lower level plays, it just goes downhill.

 

[HailFall]

Yeah I really agree that the meta isnt stale. People are still making new discoveries, and the metagame still has a bunch of at least somewhat unexplored stuff (mega chomp is something I've been wanting to try out because it feasts on the fat teams running around rn). In terms of massive changes I can think of off the top of my head since I started playing at least we've had stag ban, zardx's and manaphy's decline, mega latias craze, creation of plenty of new sets, hoopa ban, and probably tons of other stuff I'm forgetting. But yeah,I don't think the meta is stale at all its honestly really enjoyable right now and constantly shifting.

 

[Creator of Chaos]

Bland D: Who dare's insult my fairy dominated paradise. T-wave + fairies is the best thing to happen in years. I hope gen 7 brings more fairies so we never have to see another offensive Dragon again while we all chant COCs lovechild when the new T-wave fairy arises...

On a serious note if the genoration ends how I think its going to end with clefable as the Sole S rank and every playstyle being reasonably viable then I think its a good thing and those who helped make it happen should be praised for achieving the balanced meta we have now. Its even more remarkable when you consider how the last 2 generations ended (Gen 4 being Dragon dominated despite multiple suspects and Gen 5 being a mess). Good Job to Smogon for Balancing the Tier and Good Job to Gamefreak for nerfing Weather and Dragons. Honestly The Tier leaders and the council dont get the thanks they deserve for all the work they put in to make it happen. So I say thanks once more.

As for Clef/Lando/Ferro/Diancie/Volc/Lop/T-Tar/Lati@s are everywhere Complaints well Get used to it. Even in a balanced meta there will always be a crop of pokemon who for whatever reasons will get more usage then other's. Does it make them better? Objectivly. Some maybe flavours of the months others like clef and lando are insanely splashable. Regardless usage does not equate to broken and none of them stop people playing different styles or pokemon as evidenced by current ever-changing trends. If your bored with the current meta maybe its you who needs to try something new.

Anyway since AM mentioned it. I was wondering do we really have to unban the majority of Stuff that was banned this gen when Sun and Moon role around? Seem counter productive honestly and If we all know Deos, Genesect, aegis and friends are likely to be broken again when we learn whats coming couldn't we just leave them banned? Sorry if I've opened a can of worms

 

[Oriolous]

Bland D: Who dare's insult my fairy dominated paradise. T-wave + fairies is the best thing to happen in years. I hope gen 7 brings more fairies so we never have to see another offensive Dragon again while we all chant COCs lovechild when the new T-wave fairy arises...

On a serious note if the genoration ends how I think its going to end with clefable as the Sole S rank and every playstyle being reasonably viable then I think its a good thing and those who helped make it happen should be praised for achieving the balanced meta we have now. Its even more remarkable when you consider how the last 2 generations ended (Gen 4 being Dragon dominated despite multiple suspects and Gen 5 being a mess). Good Job to Smogon for Balancing the Tier and Good Job to Gamefreak for nerfing Weather and Dragons. Honestly The Tier leaders and the council dont get the thanks they deserve for all the work they put in to make it happen. So I say thanks once more.

As for Clef/Lando/Ferro/Diancie/Volc/Lop/T-Tar/Lati@s are everywhere Complaints well Get used to it. Even in a balanced meta there will always be a crop of pokemon who for whatever reasons will get more usage then other's. Does it make them better? Objectivly. Some maybe flavours of the months others like clef and lando are insanely splashable. Regardless usage does not equate to broken and none of them stop people playing different styles or pokemon as evidenced by current ever-changing trends. If your bored with the current meta maybe its you who needs to try something new.

Anyway since AM mentioned it. I was wondering do we really have to unban the majority of Stuff that was banned this gen when Sun and Moon role around? Seem counter productive honestly and If we all know Deos, Genesect, aegis and friends are likely to be broken again when we learn whats coming couldn't we just leave them banned? Sorry if I've opened a can of worms

Every Uber that isn't a cover legend (or Mewtwo or Arceus) gets a retest every generation. It's why Excadrill came back in gen 6 after being banned during the Weather Wars.

Speaking of, I really think we should commission someone to make a Pokemon animation series called The Weather Wars. That'd be sick.

 

[Gotham-Mimiqui]

Well even with my pointless Theorymon-ising, Im glad ive created this debate on the current metagame, reading you guys opinions was cool. Also ; I wasnt really complaining, and even less about the Pokémon themselves. Tyranitar and Volcanion being two of my all time favorite Pokémon and I cant create a single team without both since the release of the later, I cant complain. However, maybe im just the one who just badly wants a full new generation with ton of new Mons to compete with. Yes I know how painful suspecting stuff over and over again is, in particular the Deos, but with the new Pokémons, tutor moves etc that Sun and Moon will bring, its going to be a great breath of fresh air. Im just looking forward to that.

Cheers, great people of Smogon.

 

[HailFall]

Just out of curiosity, will previously-banned mechanics and strategies (Shadow Tag and Baton Pass chains specifically) be unbanned at the beginning of next gen too?

 

[Martin]

Likely not BP, but Shadow Tag getting unbanned wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
Free Wobbuffet

 

[Gary]

Just out of curiosity, will previously-banned mechanics and strategies (Shadow Tag and Baton Pass chains specifically) be unbanned at the beginning of next gen too?

I sure hope not. S-Tag I can deal with as dumb as it is, it's still not an entirely bullshit strategy. BP and Swagplay fagsauce to me are just as important as Sleep Clause or Endless battle clause; they're dumb as fuck strategies that either require no real skill to use and turn the game into matchup based bullshit (Baton Pass) or just completely ruin the game because they're uncompetitive and serve no purpose (SwagPlay and Endless). We got rid of Evasion clause due to the lack of permanent weather and how shitty of a strategy because it got heavily nerfed, and anyone who uses it is most likely going to be at a disadvantage anyway. BP and SwagPlay on the other hand I highly doubt will ever see a cartridge nerf to a point where a ban wont be needed on them. They just add really unhealthy elements to the game that I just don't see a point in unbanning for the sake of unbanning.

And adding on to what AM said, the same shit happens every generation lol. No one is ever going to be satisfied with how the meta turns out, or at least at the time. Only when they look back during a new generation of chaos do they think "Wow, I wish we could go back to good old boring ORAS instead of this Deo infested shit hole." A stale meta is usually a sign of a balanced meta, and while it may not necessarily make it a "good" meta persay, the entire purpose of our tiering philosophy is to try and make the meta as balanced as possible, no one said it had to be fun. If that were the case, I'd want to unban Genesect in a heartbeat, because while it's probably still broken I personally always enjoy Gene metas more than any other meta lol, but that's just me. Right now I think the ORAS meta is more balanced than its ever been, and I know a lot of people cried about the Hoopa-U ban, but personally I REALLY think it was for the better. The addition of Volcanion honestly didn't change much because the meta was already going in the direction of BO which Volc thrives in, and plenty of its checks/counters were already prevalent enough (Mega Lati, Slowbro, Slowking, Rotom-W, etc). Everyone complains about a meta with Deoxys or Lando offense, but as soon as the meta starts to become even remotely balanced, people want to start unbanning shit or pray for new Pokemon in order to shake things up. I mean look at UU this entire generation. Everyone made fun of kokoloko's radical "ban everything that even smells broken" policy until they had an ideally balanced meta, and only after that then they start unbanning shit to see if previously broken threats would still be deemed broken in a balanced meta that lacks other broken Pokemon to keep each other in check. I personally always liked the idea, but obviously I was never really open about it because everyone was just shitting on koko. In fact I think it's pretty stupid he still gets so much hate for his tiering philosophy yet UU has arguably been one of the most balanced and stable metas for most of ORAS and towards the middle end of XY after all the rounds of bans. I think if OU tiered like that we could have a more balanced a stable meta a LOT earlier, but because we want to give everything this fair chance and banning shit one at a time or keeping stuff around that is obviously broken but just not as broken as other Pokemon, or we sit around and wait for the meta to hopefully adapt to it enough where it becomes balanced.

Sorry for rambling, but it just really gets on my nerves when I see people complaining about the meta being stale and boring, when that's just a sign that we've reached an ideal meta and we should be enjoying it instead of bitching about it. I also agree with AM that the current ORAS meta is a LOT more fun than the tail end of XY. There just seems like a lot more room for creativity and variation, and there's lot of meta trends happening all the time that in my opinion keeps the meta from being stale. Enjoy this meta while you can, because come Sun and Moon, we're all gonna have our work cut out for us dear god.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

God forbid people have differing opinions.

Anyways, I'll address this moderately quickly. First off, Gary2346, I wasn't bitching, I was simply expressing that I feel the meta is bland. That's expressing an opinion. I am not expressing this as fact, I am not saying that everyone should agree with me, I am simply saying that I, as my own entity, do not enjoy the current metagame. I don't really enjoy Clefable Balance/BO being so damn common, sorry to disappoint. Perhaps I'm exaggerating a little, but let's not act like it's not pretty damn common. Yes, obviously there are different teams out there, I'm not saying Clef BO is the ONLY team archetype out there, but it's S for a reason. This isn't my stance on Clefable, that's just not something I can honestly say I enjoy. Also, a bland meta does not mean an unbalanced one, and I don't know why people are coming at me with this "we have such a balanced meta right now" shit. Yes, in terms of things being broken, we have a moderately balanced metagame, and that is most certainly something that many, including myself, have wanted for quite a while. But that doesn't make it "fun" either. I'm not saying "let's drop Deoxys to make this meta a shit show". I'm not saying that ORAS needs to be complete chaos, I'm also not saying it's the worst meta we've ever had, I just enjoyed actually building teams in late XY and Pre-Megagross suspect ORAS. The latter possibly being due to it just being new. But perhaps that's just me. Or, perhaps it's just that we've had essentially the same thing for so long, leaning more towards that.

Anyway, I've lost interest in continuing to write this out lol. Because I know no matter what I write, I'm just going to catch shit for having a differing preference, sorry, bitching.

I love how we can't speculate on what will be introduced in SuMo ( we shouldn't it's entirely speculation at this point ), but we can just assume that SuMo is going to be a shit show. Using your evidence (none), maybe SuMo will be the most balanced metagame we've ever had. Completely empty statement is it not? But that is neither here nor there, just thought I'd address that.

My activity in this subforum has shot down dramatically since the Megagross suspect, and that's just because I've lost interest in the game. I still come in here and there to make snarky comments, that I get in trouble for, but outside of that, I don't care about ORAS. I have to build around terribad 'mons in order to enjoy what I'm doing lol. Or just play other tiers. I haven't wrote an RMT in an entire year, something I REALLY enjoyed doing. I have no actual motivation to build a legitimate team anymore, and honestly, it sucks.

But, again, perhaps that's just me and I may be wrong in the long run, but as of 10:29 AM May 16th 2016, I do not enjoy ORAS OU.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Everyone made fun of kokoloko's radical "ban everything that even smells broken" policy until they had an ideally balanced meta, and only after that then they start unbanning shit to see if previously broken threats would still be deemed broken in a balanced meta that lacks other broken Pokemon to keep each other in check. I personally always liked the idea, but obviously I was never really open about it because everyone was just shitting on koko. In fact I think it's pretty stupid he still gets so much hate for his tiering philosophy yet UU has arguably been one of the most balanced and stable metas for most of ORAS and towards the middle end of XY after all the rounds of bans. I think if OU tiered like that we could have a more balanced a stable meta a LOT earlier, but because we want to give everything this fair chance and banning shit one at a time or keeping stuff around that is obviously broken but just not as broken as other Pokemon, or we sit around and wait for the meta to hopefully adapt to it enough where it becomes balanced.

Obviously, I can't speak for everyone else, but I personally didn't so much have a problem with the tiering method that kokoloko chose for UU. In fact, given how huge the pool of usable Pokemon in 7th Gen is likely to be, I think it might be worth looking into for the next generation of OU. My problem (and the problem that a few friends that I talked to about it at the time) had more to do with his "broken until proven otherwise" sort of philosophy when it came to unbans. The major example was the Klefki test, where it remained banned despite being voted UU by a 7-5 margin with Limitless's reasoning basically being "It doesn't actually look broken to me, but it may be broken some day, so I'll vote BAN."

I love how we can't speculate on what will be introduced in SuMo ( we shouldn't it's entirely speculation at this point ), but we can just assume that SuMo is going to be a shit show. Using your evidence (none), maybe SuMo will be the most balanced metagame we've ever had. Completely empty statement is it not? But that is neither here nor there, just thought I'd address that.

It's actually a pretty safe bet, lol. It's hard to tell just how long you've been around based on your join date, but I saw the arrival of both of the past two generations, and it was the same thing both times. We had a huge load of new Pokemon (and some former Ubers as well) dropped into the metagame to start out, followed by several months of rapid fire suspect testing to try to get rid of as much broken stuff as possible. It was a huge crapfest at first that took a while to settle out. Seriously, have you seen those old BW voting threads? We had people clamoring to suspect everything from Latios to Dragonite to Reuniclus to Volcarona for several tests. There's little to no reason to assume that 7th Gen isn't going to start out the same way, especially considering we'll get even more viable threats tossed into the mix along with the usual unbans.