Resource ORAS OU Metagame Discussion

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Well I can safely say that Nintendo runs on rule of cool, and that means balance means jackshit to them.

This are the guys who thought mega Salamence, lopunny and gallade would stop khanga reign in doubles, gallade fell flat on its face as an inferior medicham in singles and is laughable in doubles as a mega, lopunny is great in singles but fairly mediocre when you can just use khanga in doubles and Salamence only steals khanga thunder because it is more broken yet more niche.

Its safe to say singles will be a shit fest, they are going to release the second coming of itemless Megas if they want to, they will try to create fun stuff in doubles that completely obliterate the concept of momentum keeping in singles or think stuff like p2 are a must on every team to avoid a sweep.

Let's face it, at the start it will suck. Old mines that everyone knows are broken will be placed, new toys will cover up for the real broken beasts for at least three months until people realize what is cost effective at team building and what is just another golden dunsparce, kind of like how some people think Sylveon isn't outclassed by cleffable and still try to use it as a wish passer.

They might get creative and force a new kind of hazard, who knows it might be another gimmick with terrible distribution like the Web, or they might bring another Defog like tool that will re-shape how teams are built.

It's all speculah, but one thing is certain. IT WILL SUCK, until some bans happen.

One last thing to say. Fuck BP, that isn't a playstyle, that's a machine that entirely depends on what the other player brings, not on actual player decisions. Also fuck STag, I abused that thing in BP teams and hazard offense, it was bullshit beyond belief, this needs to stay banned.

This metagame is quite good to be honest, a bit bland in the check side given the boosts to offense and the pressure to blanket check some stuff, but in general it's a very healthy one, heck I dare say diverse with the big 4 playstyles appearing more often than not.
 

HailFall

my cancer is sun and my leo is moon
Just to be clear I wasn't suggesting that Shadow Tag or Baton Pass chains should be legalized in SM, I just wanted to ask if non-Pokemon bans are carried over from generation to generation. I think its pretty evident that the vast majority of people are strongly against cancer like full Baton Pass coming back again just from how heated people are getting lol.
 

MrAldo

Hey
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Kokoloko saved the UU meta, they could use old kokoloko now D:

Off-topic aside, Ive always been of the idea that the metagame isnt stale because of its own fault but because of people that make it stale. You need to spice up your game on your own, man, and with that idea you can cause other people to try different stuff and you can a vicious chain in the process and can change the mind of at least a few. Just try different stuff and stop being so uptight with "hurr durr viability, this shit is B so it must be bad" ideology.

And, can people stop shitting on mega altaria for no actual reason? Handling opposing steel types has NEVER been this easy with volcanion and nidoking being so good.
 

Martin

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Disclaimer: this may read like a request to retest something, but that is not the intention of this post. Just in case anyone misinterprets it.

Like, I understand why people moan about STAG after the horror that is Gothitelle (seriously fuck you Game Freak for ruining my fun -_-), but whether it is a problem next gen isn't gonna be decided based on our experience with it in gen 6. Quite honestly I never really found Tag itself to be a problem--but rather just the way that Goth line used it--and was very heavily anti-ban as a result; as a religious user of Wobbuffet offense (anyone who was around 6-7 months ago will know how much I hyped that thing up), having the entire ability banned was a really big blow to me on the basis that it invalidated around half of my teams. The fact that it dealt a heavy blow is a big part of the reason why I agree with the idea of unbanning things at the start of each generation: it gives me a chance to use something that I may have found fun in the previous generation which got banned and potentially see it last the full generation, or maybe not. But regardless of how long it stays I am safe in the knowledge that I'll be have a chance to use it during the generation. The scope of STAG isn't the same as the scope of Swagger or Baton Pass or endless battles, where they singlehandedly turned entire games into 50:50s and, in the case of the swagger, rewarded bad teambuilding. Its scope is closer to that of a Pokémon, which is why it is appropriate for it to be available at the start of a new gen regardless of whether it was banned previously. Hell, for all we know Tag could get nerfed in such a way so that Goth+Sab isn't borked anymore. That is the fun of a new generation: seeing how mechanics changes and new threats have made things better or worse (looking at you Bisharp and Clefable), and it is a big part of why these mass unbannings happen.
Hey anyone got any thoughts on me photoshopping Wobbuffet in place of the nuke in my avy?

As for people saying OU is "stale", I don't really think that's the case when you consider that this is a metagame where such a vast number of Pokémon are viable, whether for very small niches (see: Stunfisk, Xatu, Mega Steelix etc.) or for more obvious benefits (see: Tangrowth, Alomomola, Nidoking etc.). Like, if you think OU is stale you seriously need to try building with C, D and E rank Pokemon to see just how much variety is possible in this meta, as it is only stale if you choose to think of it that way :]
 
It's actually a pretty safe bet, lol. It's hard to tell just how long you've been around based on your join date, but I saw the arrival of both of the past two generations, and it was the same thing both times. We had a huge load of new Pokemon (and some former Ubers as well) dropped into the metagame to start out, followed by several months of rapid fire suspect testing to try to get rid of as much broken stuff as possible. It was a huge crapfest at first that took a while to settle out. Seriously, have you seen those old BW voting threads? We had people clamoring to suspect everything from Latios to Dragonite to Reuniclus to Volcarona for several tests. There's little to no reason to assume that 7th Gen isn't going to start out the same way, especially considering we'll get even more viable threats tossed into the mix along with the usual unbans.
I thought we were assuming end product. Of course it's going to start out shitty, that's how every new generation starts. But in the end it may end up better than ORAS or XY ever was. If we were talking exclusively about the start of it, yes, but that's nothing new. I'm saying the end product of SuMo could be better than the end product of ORAS. Clearly there's no reason behind that, and that was the original point in my statement. If we're saying the very beginning of SuMo is going to be worse than current ORAS, then yes, of course it will be, there's no debating there. But that's essentially comparing apples to oranges I feel.
 
People are talking of ORAS as if it's dead and gone, which I find odd, considering we've got another ~6 months of this meta.

Maybe instead of discussing what to expect from Sun/Moon, we should talk about how to improve the current meta (*wink wink" twave and clef).
 
Nothing Really, I'm loving mold breaker SD taunt lum haxorus. Trolly base speed, access to taunt, baits steel types like mad and shits on bulky offense/Stall in general.

Cleffable hates that guy, and only bulky ground cores dare to switch into it, the bad part is that is pretty much an invite to lati@s to come.
 

bludz

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Martin. Shadow Tag is mostly just dumb combined with the ability to lock people into a move. This basically ends your ability to make decisions. Goth did it with Trick, but Wobb did it to a lesser extent with Encore. Good riddance if you ask me, and no reason to turn this into a single mon or complex ban since the ability could be problematic again on the future. Neither of those mons took a lot of skill to use and both had decent rewards, even if it meant restricting your build to a reasonable extent.

Not really sure if anyone has any clue what will drop down at the start of next gen so I don't think there's much good in guessing.

The meta isn't stale, trends keep changing. I started writing an article for TFP on metagame trends back in March (or late Feb, i forget - and the idea was conceived earlier), and I've had to go back and change some wording to reflect the point in time stuff. Why? Because some of the things I referred to were popular trends at those times but not any more. Volcanions influence on the meta isn't fully realized yet either so we have some stuff to look forward to even before Gen 7
 
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God forbid people have differing opinions.

Anyways, I'll address this moderately quickly. First off, Gary2346, I wasn't bitching, I was simply expressing that I feel the meta is bland. That's expressing an opinion. I am not expressing this as fact, I am not saying that everyone should agree with me, I am simply saying that I, as my own entity, do not enjoy the current metagame. I don't really enjoy Clefable Balance/BO being so damn common, sorry to disappoint. Perhaps I'm exaggerating a little, but let's not act like it's not pretty damn common. Yes, obviously there are different teams out there, I'm not saying Clef BO is the ONLY team archetype out there, but it's S for a reason. This isn't my stance on Clefable, that's just not something I can honestly say I enjoy. Also, a bland meta does not mean an unbalanced one, and I don't know why people are coming at me with this "we have such a balanced meta right now" shit. Yes, in terms of things being broken, we have a moderately balanced metagame, and that is most certainly something that many, including myself, have wanted for quite a while. But that doesn't make it "fun" either. I'm not saying "let's drop Deoxys to make this meta a shit show". I'm not saying that ORAS needs to be complete chaos, I'm also not saying it's the worst meta we've ever had, I just enjoyed actually building teams in late XY and Pre-Megagross suspect ORAS. The latter possibly being due to it just being new. But perhaps that's just me. Or, perhaps it's just that we've had essentially the same thing for so long, leaning more towards that.

Anyway, I've lost interest in continuing to write this out lol. Because I know no matter what I write, I'm just going to catch shit for having a differing preference, sorry, bitching.

I love how we can't speculate on what will be introduced in SuMo ( we shouldn't it's entirely speculation at this point ), but we can just assume that SuMo is going to be a shit show. Using your evidence (none), maybe SuMo will be the most balanced metagame we've ever had. Completely empty statement is it not? But that is neither here nor there, just thought I'd address that.

My activity in this subforum has shot down dramatically since the Megagross suspect, and that's just because I've lost interest in the game. I still come in here and there to make snarky comments, that I get in trouble for, but outside of that, I don't care about ORAS. I have to build around terribad 'mons in order to enjoy what I'm doing lol. Or just play other tiers. I haven't wrote an RMT in an entire year, something I REALLY enjoyed doing. I have no actual motivation to build a legitimate team anymore, and honestly, it sucks.

But, again, perhaps that's just me and I may be wrong in the long run, but as of 10:29 AM May 16th 2016, I do not enjoy ORAS OU.
Team building isn't that bad in ORAS its quite easy for BO and balances but its just boring using the same mons over and over again and trying to prepare for every team style is pretty hard to do. But I kinda get where you're coming from but its hard to completely understand since I got good at Pokemon later on after the Lando I ban happened so team building and that kind of stuff is still fun for me especially since a lot of the RMTs I see aren't very good its hard for me to want to try and help them out and use their team. Hopefully Sun and Moon gives up more Pokemon that are healthy for the meta that check some of the team styles and top tier threats :]

I usually just team build by myself or with friends. Having multiple people with you is a lot more fun then being by yourself. Also sorry if in not making much sense in on my new phone trying to adjust to my keyboard still after a month since my phone is kind of skinny but hopefully you feel the same way about mons as you did in X and Y if you wanna talk or whatever add me on Skype: adamantexcadfill or find me on showdown as adamant excadrill see ya fren :]
 
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Belly drum chesnaught... The serial killer! ( ;) )
This morning I wanted to made team just for fun, but BD nut... OML this might be legit set :) Tell me, whet teams like lando/tran/rotom have for BDnut? It sets up on very, very common leads like tankchomp, lando, rotom and then gets 2kills or more if you fight against fat team of slowbro, clef and so on. I've got a lot of fun with this set, it's quite good and really antimeta.

Replays (bad EV, I know)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-373816914
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-373789421
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-373763574
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-373855186
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-373814005
 

MANNAT

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(seriously though, banded rhyperior is jesus)

I really need to tell you guys about one of the most fun and cool sets to play around with that I have ever used: banded rhype. This is one of the most entertaining and mindbogglingly awesome sets that I have ever used. Having moves to OHKO or at worst 2HKO all of the GO-TO physical attacker checks in the tier is fucking insane. A bunch of people are running spdef skarm over physdef skarm because they like relying on skarm as a taunt mgarde check (fucking retarded ik), but that thing is cleanly 2HKO'd by banded stone edge, ferro is 2hko'd by banded earthquake, banded edge 2hkos rotom, even hippo is 2hko'd by ice punch/eq after rocks over 80%% of the time. Rhyperior's insane wallbreaking prowess, stellar physical bulk, and STAB quakedge when coupled with 140 base attack is ridiculous for fatter builds to deal with and allows the rhyperior player to play really aggressively since you know that any free switch in for it is either an automatic kill, or a chunk of damage taken off of something. Using this set is so much fun and I recommend that you guys try it out.
Rhyperior @ Choice Band
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn
- Ice Punch

84 speed is for base 50s like chansey and tang
 
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Wouldn't Eq hit hippowdon by the same amount as ice punch? I'd rather run LO with SR or banded with aqua tail to ease some prediction issues.

Ice punch does nail Gliscor and reduces Latios mind games a little.
 

MANNAT

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Wouldn't Eq hit hippowdon by the same amount as ice punch? I'd rather run LO with SR or banded with aqua tail to ease some prediction issues.

Ice punch does nail Gliscor and reduces Latios mind games a little.
band gets a lot of notable 2hkos over lo and most of the "prediction" is clicking ice punch when their only quakedge switchin is lando and stuff like that.
 
band gets a lot of notable 2hkos over lo and most of the "prediction" is clicking ice punch when their only quakedge switchin is lando and stuff like that.
Fair enough, but I'm used to Lando T switching on aqua tail Rhyperior XD, aqua tail does nail the 2hko on hippowdon.

Ice punch got its merits to ease predictions I guess.
 

(seriously though, banded rhyperior is jesus)

I really need to tell you guys about one of the most fun and cool sets to play around with that I have ever used: banded rhype. This is one of the most entertaining and mind mindbogglingly awesome sets that I have ever used. Having moves to OHKO or at worst 2HKO all of the GO-TO physical attacker checks in the tier is fucking insane. A bunch of people are running spdef skarm over physdef skarm because they like relying on skarm as a taunt mgarde check (fucking retarded ik), but that thing is cleanly 2HKO'd by banded stone edge, ferro is 2hko'd by banded earthquake, banded edge 2hkos rotom, even hippo is 2hko'd by ice punch/eq after rocks over 80%% of the time. Rhyperior's insane wallbreaking prowess, stellar physical bulk, and STAB quakedge when coupled with 140 base attack is ridiculous for fatter builds to deal with and allows the rhyperior player to play really aggressively since you know that any free switch in for it is either an automatic kill, or a chunk of damage taken off of something. Using this set is so much fun and I recommend that you guys try it out.
Rhyperior @ Choice Band
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn
- Ice Punch

84 speed is for base 50s like chansey and tang
Is fire punch a good option? Seems like straight up killing ferro and scizor would be nice.
 

MANNAT

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Is fire punch a good option? Seems like straight up killing ferro and scizor would be nice.
both are 2hko'd by eq on the switch in anyways, but if you don't mind losing the 2HKO on megabro and the almost okho on regular bro, then I guess it's fine.
 
Hey fam. Im currently making a cartbridge team and I started with 3 of my fav mons for a nice core, Specs Volcanion, Band Ttar and Bulky SD Mega Scizor. From there I badly wanted to play Klefki with Spikes, T-Wave and Magnet Rise, wich is a really fun pokemon to use. As for teammates I added Landorus-T for my ground-types weakness and cool check to Garchomp and Exca, and im looking for my last teammate and the best I cant think of is Latios, for an added Ground immunity and one more Fire type resistance, even though Fire types are rare nowadays. But fuck Latios is boring and adds a Weavile weakness. If anyone has advices, Id love to hear them. Cheers!
 
Hey fam. Im currently making a cartbridge team and I started with 3 of my fav mons for a nice core, Specs Volcanion, Band Ttar and Bulky SD Mega Scizor. From there I badly wanted to play Klefki with Spikes, T-Wave and Magnet Rise, wich is a really fun pokemon to use. As for teammates I added Landorus-T for my ground-types weakness and cool check to Garchomp and Exca, and im looking for my last teammate and the best I cant think of is Latios, for an added Ground immunity and one more Fire type resistance, even though Fire types are rare nowadays. But fuck Latios is boring and adds a Weavile weakness. If anyone has advices, Id love to hear them. Cheers!
Not exactly the right thread, but that sounds fine for a first time team, except I'd be a bit more inclined to use Skarmory > Klefki since this /seems/ more like a bulky offense builds from the looks of it and the phasing ability is really helpful to wear things down for Volc. Tar, and Sciz, but anyway Skarmory does give you a better overall check to Mega Scizor who just screws over that team after Lando is under 65% and Volcanion is eliminated (which isn't very hard). Tank Chomp > Lando with Skarm > Klefki imo, Chomp good so you could have an actual rock resist as Terrakion could literally just click Stone Edge and watch things drop. The last slot is kinda expendable, but you do need a Keldeo check, so Latios does work well in that slot, but a simple Recover / Defog + 3 attacks set would be more beneficial, especially since you can run Thunderbolt to screw Skarmory who just sets up spikes incredibly well these days. I wouldn't advise Defog at all actually, since on this build you need recovery to consistently check Keldeo, Electrics, and Volcanion. I can see if you don't like that with having Volcanion on that team though

tl:dr skarm > klef, chomp > lando (if you want a rock resist), 3 attacks + recover latios. you should review the team after some testing to further fine tune it, but yeah that's my interpretation of hazard stack bo / balance
 
Don't know if it's the right thread but I was thinking about building a team around BD Chesnaught who, as someone pointed out before, may be considered a good mon in this meta.

So I was looking for decent partners and TTar (not sure what set actually, but checking/trapping birds, Fire and Psychics is great, as is providing sand to Exca who can threaten Poisons, Fairies and offence in general) and Keldeo (works great with Pursuit support and hits hard stuff like Lando, Chomp, Gliscor etc.) came to my mind.

Any suggestions ?


EDIT: that's definetly something for "Ask a simple question...", but what's the best spread for BD Ches ?
 
Don't know if it's the right thread but I was thinking about building a team around BD Chesnaught who, as someone pointed out before, may be considered a good mon in this meta.

So I was looking for decent partners and TTar (not sure what set actually, but checking/trapping birds, Fire and Psychics is great, as is providing sand to Exca who can threaten Poisons, Fairies and offence in general) and Keldeo (works great with Pursuit support and hits hard stuff like Lando, Chomp, Gliscor etc.) came to my mind.

Any suggestions ?
Not quite the right thread, I think it'd more go in Simple Questions Simple Answers, but a good teammate would be Rotom-W, as BD Chesnaught HATES Talonflame and Tornadus with a passion, and Rotom-W can take on both, without risking Superpower from TornT and Will-O from Talonflame like Tyranitar would. It also helps with pivoting around. Mega Metagross is also great as it can take on many of Chesnaught's counters. Heatran would also be pretty nice to take on stuff like MSableye and the fire types that threaten the core atm + Celebi. Of course, I'm not going to build the rest of the team for you, but that's a good start.
 
Not quite the right thread, I think it'd more go in Simple Questions Simple Answers, but a good teammate would be Rotom-W, as BD Chesnaught HATES Talonflame and Tornadus with a passion, and Rotom-W can take on both, without risking Superpower from TornT and Will-O from Talonflame like Tyranitar would. It also helps with pivoting around. Mega Metagross is also great as it can take on many of Chesnaught's counters. Heatran would also be pretty nice to take on stuff like MSableye and the fire types that threaten the core atm + Celebi. Of course, I'm not going to build the rest of the team for you, but that's a good start.
Thanks
 
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