Resource ORAS OU Metagame Discussion

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Is it just me or is m-lop looking real strong right now in the meta?
There's a huge opportunity cost in using M-Lop as most strong wallbreakers are megas, so you end up relying on something like Manaphy or Gengar to break balance and stall. Definitely not as good as the Hoopa-U meta.
 
Mega lop can break stall to. Not as well as say mega garde or Cham but it can do so without giving up its main job of offence breaking which is a huge advantage it has over other offence breakers such as manectric. It literally needs 2 moves. Everything else is your choice. Sub-Encore, Pup - Encore and Sub pup are most certainly viable and can very easily go to town on stall.

That said I'm not sure how good it is overall right now. Bulky offence is on the rise and the ever present clef doesn't really care about lop but tyranniter and steels are more common. Would love to hear from higher ladder players
 
Mega lop can break stall to. Not as well as say mega garde or Cham but it can do so without giving up its main job of offence breaking which is a huge advantage it has over other offence breakers such as manectric. It literally needs 2 moves. Everything else is your choice. Sub-Encore, Pup - Encore and Sub pup are most certainly viable and can very easily go to town on stall.

That said I'm not sure how good it is overall right now. Bulky offence is on the rise and the ever present clef doesn't really care about lop but tyranniter and steels are more common. Would love to hear from higher ladder players
Kind of why I thought it was pretty strong atm it got me to 1650ish on my main and 1500+ on my alt at the moment. I feel as though as long as you can deal with the mons that can check her like talon or clef that can wall her, you can really break through teams especially ones not prepared for her. Beyond that yeah you can use a good variety of movesets whether it be double prio moves ice punch to hit something like a lando sub power up punch ect..
 

bludz

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Mega Lopunny honestly needs Fake Out these days. Those Sub Encore / Encore PuP sets are a thing of the past that sacrifice your amazing matchup with offense for a slightly better matchup against bulkier playstyles. Won't win against full stall anyway given stuff like Amoonguss, Quagsire, and Clefable beating you anyway. Not to mention Shedinja if you ever come across that.

In short this is kind of like running HP Grass on your electric types to give you a better matchup vs Water/Ground types and sacrificing the matchup against Dragon/Ground, Ground/Flying and Dragon/Flying. Not a perfect comparison but the concept is that these are really suboptimal choices. Since Mega Lopunny's best matchup is against offense you may as well capitalize fully on it instead of trying to force it into a role that doesn't excel at anything. In pokemon, specialists are better than jack-of-all-trades in terms of specific sets, so focusing all your efforts on your best attributes is usually the way to go. Encore sets are not particularly great stallbreakers to begin with

Lopunny is a fine mega in the current metagame but it isn't really any more powerful than it has been for the past year or so. I'll agree it was better with Hoopa-U for sure since that was an amazing partner for it. But still, there are plenty of non-mega wallbreakers to pair it with and ways to pair it up with other physical sweepers to wear down mutual checks and counters.
 
Currently, against offence, MLop can be used very effectively. You can wear down Landorus-T/Chomp using something else that hits the same stuff, LO Excadrill under sand being the big one, and I guess another option is Terrak. Then, after that, MLop can clean up. This step can pretty easily work in the other way too, by using Ice Punch on Lopunny to wear down the bulky ground, then using another fast physical sweeper to clean up.

Obviously, this requires support. One of the big problems with running a Lopunny team in this way, is that due to the subsequent support you have to provide to cover up the initial core's weaknesses, you're not necessarily going to have a good amount of stuff to deal with bulky builds too. After running through the checklist of making sure you have to something to beat Keldeo, opposing Lop/Exca, and other really common threats, you've realistically only got about 1 slot left. The big weakness I've noticed with a lot of these offensive teams is that they are oftentimes really dependent on one breaker, short of just not caring about checking something common.

To comment on the meta as a whole, I find it's a bit lacklustre. There's an interaction between different styles right now, but it's not really an interesting one. Builders who decide to build around a core more dedicated to breaking might find they get overpowered by a style similar to the one I outlined above, and then deal with a whole new set of weaknesses. There's kind of a triangle interaction between teams that pack more breakers, fast offence, and bulky teams themselves that's altogether somewhat tiresome. I can say I've tested out all 3 of the above styles, and the "triangle" occurs pretty frequently in matches, no matter what style I use, and working both to my advantage and disadvantage depending on who has the good side of it.

In any case, I've noticed Heatran is pretty powerful, with its ability to get rocks up and taunt, and that it has just enough variety in its moveslots to be unpredictable. The Power Herb + Solar Beam set just slams the most common variant of stall running about right now. It's probably the best non-specific way of applying hazard pressure and offensive pressure, either through magma storm or lava plume burns.
 
People talks about bandTar, Band rhyperior, band terrakion. Why banded tyrantrum gets no attention, even if it has strongest rock type move in OU!
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 262-310 (86.4 - 102.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Meanwhile rhyperior:
252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 195-231 (64.3 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

This goldy dragon has no safe switch-ins! Nothing in OU gets in easily.

Yeah, MegaBro it's best switch in and still gets 2HKO with hazards.
 
I guess it is a matter of reliability, Rhyperior has some coverage options and a stab move with perfect accuracy that stops common T wave users.

Tyrantrum has bad switch in opportunities vs cleffable to be honest, banded Ttar can give sand to Excadrill.

Tyrantrum is strong but he is sadly a one note xylophone.

The point here is that one offers support, one shits over cleffable unless it carries GK/energy ball for wathever reason and the other one hits like a truck loaded with small cars filled with explosives.
 

MANNAT

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People talks about bandTar, Band rhyperior, band terrakion. Why banded tyrantrum gets no attention, even if it has strongest rock type move in OU!
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 262-310 (86.4 - 102.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Meanwhile rhyperior:
252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 195-231 (64.3 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Obviously something's gonna be stronger if the move that it's using has 50 more bp rofl. Rhyperior base attack is almost double tyrantrum's and STAB quakedge is some of the best coverage in the game. Also, banded rhype has megahorn to put a giant dent in megabro and 2hko it without needing hazard support. Additionally, rhyperior actually has ice punch to punish bulky grounds that switch in, unlike rhype, who relies on outrage to hit rock switch ins. Obviously banded head smash is more spammable than rhyperior, but the fact that rhyperior has slightly larger attack and offensive ability overall and significantly better bulk makes it a better CB user overall.
 
Well, everything that is 2HKO'd by superpower isn't actually a 2HKO. :]

Not that that really matters in the grand scheme of things. Just thought I should point that out.

In all seriousness, I didn't think I left long enough for CB Rhyperior and CB Tyrantrum to be the topic at hand. Could've fooled me.

And if it makes anyone feel better, my new trapping team has caused me to enjoy the meta a little (very minute amount) more. Mainly because it's pissing people off, which I enjoy doing. I'll likely post an RMT in the near future when I work out some kinks.

But, let's continue the CB Rhyperior talk.
 
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cb rhy has almost unresisted coverage which is great but its frailness specially def and slow speed holds it back from being truly great at its job.
also you guys should already know this but im trying to continue the convo
 
Well honestly it ain't no tail glow rain Manaphy at shiting on cleffable, but it is an immediate wallbreaker with few switch ins and that is something, sadly the advent of offensive Tran can fucks him silly unless you have scouted your opponent team a bit and you can't speed creep against him safely.

To add to the topic, what do you prefer on cleffable, I find unaware impossible to be replaced since it laughs at so many stuff, but apparently the popular concensus seem to indicate people somehow prefer magic guard offensive cleffable, anyone willing to expose why they prefer that or what's the team building reason one would choose passive damage immunity over shiting on every set up sweeper bar blitz zard X, rdtg Manaphy, bulky roost volcarona and Stallbreaker Talonflame.
 
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magic guard clef isnt whittle down by status and is usaully paired on teams that have other of dealing with setup sweepers plus you dont have to worry about heal bell pp or needing a cleric, unaware calm mind clef is nice but status holds it back but magic guard calm mind clef is typically better on balance spreading paras luring steels with flamethrower/fire blast etc. It really depends on what the team needs from clef and what the builder prefers. I prefer magic guard calm mind clef because i usaully use balance
 
I use all play styles and honestly the only good thing MG got over unaware is moonblast+softboiled. Having a status sponge us OK I guess, but I don't think protection from passive damage justifies the panic button revenge killer that MG cleffable seems to rely on.
 

AM

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Unaware Clef only really fits on super passive builds anyways and being immune to one of the most powerful mechanics in the games, hazards, while taking advantage of the same kind of hazards is most times super silly to give up when making a legitimate team. There's some teams that can kind of get away with but most times you're limiting your team options and effectiveness by not using Clefables best trait that emphasizes why it's considered the best mon in ORAS OU.
 

HailFall

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which set of azu do you guys preffer in teambuilding av bd or cb azu.
Cb for sure, it has everything-- power, consistency, and coverage. Bd is fine but its more of something you need to build around imo. Av is kind of ass overall and is only really viable on specific teams. At least thats my opinion on the matter.
 
Obviously something's gonna be stronger if the move that it's using has 50 more bp rofl. Rhyperior base attack is almost double tyrantrum's and STAB quakedge is some of the best coverage in the game. Also, banded rhype has megahorn to put a giant dent in megabro and 2hko it without needing hazard support. Additionally, rhyperior actually has ice punch to punish bulky grounds that switch in, unlike rhype, who relies on outrage to hit rock switch ins. Obviously banded head smash is more spammable than rhyperior, but the fact that rhyperior has slightly larger attack and offensive ability overall and significantly better bulk makes it a better CB user overall.
OML.

Sorry mate, nothing personal but your post makes no sense. At all.

Rhyperior base attack is almost double tyrantrum's and STAB quakedge is some of the best coverage in the game.

How that's one of the best coverage if it clearly beats less than tyrantrum's coverage? And I don't agree that ground/rock is that good. Due to very common ground resistance in OU you have to make good prediction or you give your opponent free switch. There is reason why stuff like tyranitar don't runs edgequake anymore. Pay attention that there is only one reason why bulky grounds (gliscor, lando, hippo) run edge - TALONFLAME.


dditionally, rhyperior actually has ice punch to punish bulky grounds that switch in, unlike rhype, who relies on outrage to hit rock switch ins.
Has ice fang lol.
Also, banded rhype has megahorn to put a giant dent in megabro and 2hko it without needing hazard support.
Mega Bro - da major thread

Even if you want to preapare against megabro tyrantrum is better. Why? BECAUSE IT CAN SURVIVE SCALD!
0 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 525-621 (126.8 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 166-196 (54.4 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also has strong jaw boosted Crunch.
but the fact that rhyperior has slightly larger attack and offensive ability overall and significantly better bulk makes it a better CB user overall.
Why Rhyperior has awful, awful special bulk and not like tyrantrum is weak on physical side. Only real rhyperior's advantage over tyrantrum is switching on twave.
 
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OML.

Sorry mate, nothing personal but your post makes no sense. At all.



How that's one of the best coverage if it clearly beats less than tyrantrum's coverage? And I don't agree that ground/rock is that good. Due to very common ground resistance in OU you have to make good prediction or you give your opponent free switch. There is reason why stuff like tyranitar don't runs edgequake anymore. Pay attention that there is only one reason why bulky grounds (gliscor, lando, hippo) run edge - TALONFLAME.



Has ice fang lol.

Mega Bro - da major thread

Even if you want to preapare against megabro tyrantrum is better. Why? BECAUSE IT CAN SURVIVE SCALD!
0 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 525-621 (126.8 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 166-196 (54.4 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also has strong jaw boosted Crunch.

Why Rhyperior has awful, awful special bulk and not like tyrantrum is weak on physical side. Only real rhyperior's advantage over tyrantrum is switching on twave.
Tyrantrum is still frail on the special side, and both of them can actually take weaker coverage on that side such as HP Ices. Also, your calcs disregard Ice Punch, which allowed Rhyperior to do this to some of the calcs that you cherry picked with the bloody RU set:

252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 180-212 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Ice Punch vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Garchomp: 452-536 (108.3 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Furthermore, claiming that Talonflame is the sole reason for Stone Edge usage is downright exaggerating. Torn-T, 'Zard Y - although less relevant now, are just two examples of 'mons Stone Edge hits along with generally being used for coverage. As far as I can see, the reason Tyranitar doesn't run EdgeQuake much anymore is because Superpower is generally the superior option on Choiced sets, and because Support sets don't always have room for it or wouldn't be powerful enough to take advantage of the coverage.

Additionally, neither 'mons are optimal answers to Mega Bro, and neither should be your primary answers. Sure, Tyrantrum can take a Scald, but Rhyperior can still guarantee a 2HKO.

I'll admit Tyrantrum has a niche, and that Rhyperior doesn't completely outclass it, but it's ludicrous to say that Rhyperior only has a T-Wave immunity over it - others have covered those already, so I'll leave it at this.
 

AM

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Yeah and Tyranitars 4th move on its choice set is team dependent to begin with. Crunch, Edge, and pursuit are gonna be the given after that it really depends on what other functions it's going to display. I know a handful of people that don't like Superpower on Tyranitar over something like Ice Punch, just one example.
 
mega slowbro's standard spread is 2HKOed by ada banded Head Smash anyway

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Mega Slowbro: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Crunch vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Mega Slowbro: 212-250 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

jolly band has a higher chance to 2HKO w/ crunch, sure, but both 2HKO after rocks anyway

252 Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Mega Slowbro: 180-213 (45.6 - 54%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Crunch vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Mega Slowbro: 192-228 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO (higher, yeah, but still not guaranteed anyway)

252 Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Mega Slowbro: 180-213 (45.6 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Crunch vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Mega Slowbro: 192-228 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

as you can see, the difference in power is relatively small, and why would you prefer to have a move that BARELY does more damage vs this specific target and will RARELY make the difference when you can have the great benefit of NO recoil on a very spammable STAB move?
 

MANNAT

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I really life the sd rocker set on garchomp right now since it lets it set up and dispatch a ton of its normal checks like rotom-w, mega sable, clef, etc. and can open up holes for teammates to sweep with many of their main checks gone as well as setting up rocks for heavily offensive teams. Also, sd rocks can take out a couple mons if your opponent expect like tankchomp and send out a mon that only kills certain garchomp sets like kyub immediately after a mon dies to eq (the only move common among all garchomp sets)
 
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