Resource ORAS OU Metagame Discussion

hydreigon is a good mon in ou its definitely powerful enough and while its speed is not that great vs faster teams, you can compensate with twave support, voltturn, and just having fast mons like lopunny to help vs faster threats (or use scarf, which i think is a mediocre set)
 
Specs hydreigon is where it is, again baton pass lopunny feels mandatory to get negative switching initiative on predicted checks and slow volt turners that are synergistic with him.
 
After some good teaching, I'm back!

Since Hydreigon is actually UU, and said to be one of the most overpowered, I'm gonna post a set capable of checking it and actually being viable versus more 'mons. Its a UU Pokemon, and in my opinion, the real one that deserves to become OU. Little bitch.

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Baton Pass
I havent made this set myself, so thats a big improvement.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 224-264 (57.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It takes the hit.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 1216-1432 (374.1 - 440.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
...aaaand it kills in return.

Sylveon vs other stuff
Sylveon kills bisharp if caught on switch in. Otherwise Sylveon gets killed.
Charizard Mega X gets OHKOd by Hyper Voice so it shouldnt switch into it.
Ferro Standard utility set gets (almost always) OHKOd by HP Fire after st rock dmg. Ferro same set doesnt kill Sylv with Gyro.
Beneficial nature attack Lando T Offensive has 6% chance to OHKO Sylveon. Sylveon retaliates with a 100% chance to OHKO.

As you can see it deals a load of damage to a lot of things. Baton Pass for momentum.
HP Fire for annoying steel types.
However heatran counters this set completely.
The Speed IVs to not speed tie with other Sylveons. You might put 4 more EVs to not speed tie with 16 spe EVs Sylveon.
This set deals a lot of damage to mons that not resist it but is especially a check to Hydreigon. If an opposing team has Hydrei its best to preserve sylveon for it. Its really overpowered otherwise.
Change Specs into scarf and concert hp to speed to iutspeed hydrei and kill but in exchange for less damage in general. Scarf Sylv is not that viable.
 
After some good teaching, I'm back!

Since Hydreigon is actually UU, and said to be one of the most overpowered, I'm gonna post a set capable of checking it and actually being viable versus more 'mons. Its a UU Pokemon, and in my opinion, the real one that deserves to become OU. Little bitch.

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Baton Pass
I havent made this set myself, so thats a big improvement.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 224-264 (57.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It takes the hit.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 1216-1432 (374.1 - 440.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
...aaaand it kills in return.

Sylveon vs other stuff
Sylveon kills bisharp if caught on switch in. Otherwise Sylveon gets killed.
Charizard Mega X gets OHKOd by Hyper Voice so it shouldnt switch into it.
Ferro Standard utility set gets (almost always) OHKOd by HP Fire after st rock dmg. Ferro same set doesnt kill Sylv with Gyro.
Beneficial nature attack Lando T Offensive has 6% chance to OHKO Sylveon. Sylveon retaliates with a 100% chance to OHKO.

As you can see it deals a load of damage to a lot of things. Baton Pass for momentum.
HP Fire for annoying steel types.
However heatran counters this set completely.
The Speed IVs to not speed tie with other Sylveons. You might put 4 more EVs to not speed tie with 16 spe EVs Sylveon.
This set deals a lot of damage to mons that not resist it but is especially a check to Hydreigon. If an opposing team has Hydrei its best to preserve sylveon for it. Its really overpowered otherwise.
Change Specs into scarf and concert hp to speed to iutspeed hydrei and kill but in exchange for less damage in general. Scarf Sylv is not that viable.
Sylveon is not good in OU, that's why it fell down to UU, your calc shows it can't come in on Hydreigon (which btw isn't very common in OU) and it gets walled by Heatran which is very common.


Defensively Sylveon is outclassed by Clefable and Offensively by Mega Gardevoir, there's really no reason to use it in OU.
 
Sylveon is not good in OU, that's why it fell down to UU, your calc shows it can't come in on Hydreigon (which btw isn't very common in OU) and it gets walled by Heatran which is very common.


Defensively Sylveon is outclassed by Clefable and Offensively by Mega Gardevoir, there's really no reason to use it in OU.
Maybe in place of Mega Gardevoir so you can invest the mega ability in a different teammate?
 

Martin

gamer boy
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
No, you'd run Sylveon over Clefable for its access to Baton Pass (nice with stuff like Dugtrio or Magnezone because it can bait out Heatran or Scizor etc. or whatever and allow for an instant trap while also allowing it to have the equivalent of two Hidden Powers ('cause you cant escape trappers) and allowing for prediction-free removal of whatever gets trapped as well as allowing for participation in VoltTurn cores) as well as significantly higher power on it's key STAB move than LO Clefable courtesy of it's higher SpA stat and Pixilate Hyper Voice. Please don't use Quick Attack lol

That said, Sylveon is very mediocre. It's only really viable on fairyspam teams, and on those it faces competition from fellow non-mega Fairy-type Gardevoir on Diancie variants of the archetype.
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
After some good teaching, I'm back!

Since Hydreigon is actually UU, and said to be one of the most overpowered, I'm gonna post a set capable of checking it and actually being viable versus more 'mons. Its a UU Pokemon, and in my opinion, the real one that deserves to become OU. Little bitch.

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Baton Pass
I havent made this set myself, so thats a big improvement.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 224-264 (57.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It takes the hit.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 1216-1432 (374.1 - 440.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
...aaaand it kills in return.

Sylveon vs other stuff
Sylveon kills bisharp if caught on switch in. Otherwise Sylveon gets killed.
Charizard Mega X gets OHKOd by Hyper Voice so it shouldnt switch into it.
Ferro Standard utility set gets (almost always) OHKOd by HP Fire after st rock dmg. Ferro same set doesnt kill Sylv with Gyro.
Beneficial nature attack Lando T Offensive has 6% chance to OHKO Sylveon. Sylveon retaliates with a 100% chance to OHKO.

As you can see it deals a load of damage to a lot of things. Baton Pass for momentum.
HP Fire for annoying steel types.
However heatran counters this set completely.
The Speed IVs to not speed tie with other Sylveons. You might put 4 more EVs to not speed tie with 16 spe EVs Sylveon.
This set deals a lot of damage to mons that not resist it but is especially a check to Hydreigon. If an opposing team has Hydrei its best to preserve sylveon for it. Its really overpowered otherwise.
Change Specs into scarf and concert hp to speed to iutspeed hydrei and kill but in exchange for less damage in general. Scarf Sylv is not that viable.
No offense but this is a thread that should be used to post about current meta trends and what sets/mons are being used more or less, and just discussing the general state of the meta. This is not really the place to be posting about Pokemon such as Sylveon or T-wave + Gyro Ball Ferrothorn which are both pretty subpar options in general, and Specs Slyveon is an already well known set. I don't mean to single you out or anything, but I've starting noticing this happening more often where people come on here and post a random set without really explaining why it's good/better in the current meta, and instead treat it almost like a mini analysis even though anyone can just go onto the home page and look up set explanations if they wanted to.

If you want to post a set on here, great, but try to explain why it's underrated/better/worse in the current metagame and not just in general.
 
Hey so I made a thread and it got transferred here:

So bare with me, as somebody who's been around competitive Pokémon off and on since 4th gen and who is relatively familiar with team building, these are my observations.

Now we've always had a number of expected roles on a team, depending on what kind of team you're running. Keep in mind now almost every team has to go out of its way to run rocks and spin/Defoe. Let's say we want to build a team with two Defensive Pivots, Two Offensive Pivots, 1 Sweeper, and 1 Revenge killer.

Let's say we want to run a GWF core and our sweeper is weak to rocks forcing us to run a pivot that carries defog. Not to mention we already picked a defensive pivot off of its ability to use rocks.

Now we have 5 Pokémon but we realize that one of them isn't a mega so instead of that Pokémon that perfectly rounds out your team you have to search for a mega to fit in there to get the most value out of your build.

Anybody have any thoughts on how Mega's affect team building? And to a lesser extent stealth rocks and defog?
 
Hey so I made a thread and it got transferred here:

So bare with me, as somebody who's been around competitive Pokémon off and on since 4th gen and who is relatively familiar with team building, these are my observations.

Now we've always had a number of expected roles on a team, depending on what kind of team you're running. Keep in mind now almost every team has to go out of its way to run rocks and spin/Defoe. Let's say we want to build a team with two Defensive Pivots, Two Offensive Pivots, 1 Sweeper, and 1 Revenge killer.

Let's say we want to run a GWF core and our sweeper is weak to rocks forcing us to run a pivot that carries defog. Not to mention we already picked a defensive pivot off of its ability to use rocks.

Now we have 5 Pokémon but we realize that one of them isn't a mega so instead of that Pokémon that perfectly rounds out your team you have to search for a mega to fit in there to get the most value out of your build.

Anybody have any thoughts on how Mega's affect team building? And to a lesser extent stealth rocks and defog?
technically this should be more of a simple questions simple answers post but it's fine

The biggest thing you've got wrong here is that you need to be certain things. If you've gotten to the point where you've got 5 mons and no Mega, sure you can slap on something with good synergy with the rest of the team and go with that, but if the last spot on your team is filled perfectly by Heatran, and no Mega can fill that gap as well as Heatran can, you run Heatran. Mind you, most of the Megas are good enough that that won't happen often, but it's not something that you need to check off a list the same way you would check off your Excadrill check or win condition. It's similar to how you don't need to run Pokemon in A or higher in the VR, but you do it anyways because they're that good and they typically fill an important role in your team in the first place. Basically there's no effect that Megas have on teambuilding besides preparing for them and not being able to run two of them. Also you don't need to run hazard removal if you aren't weak to it and your team doesn't allow opportunities to common setters. Having your own rocker is another matter entirely.
 
technically this should be more of a simple questions simple answers post but it's fine

The biggest thing you've got wrong here is that you need to be certain things. If you've gotten to the point where you've got 5 mons and no Mega, sure you can slap on something with good synergy with the rest of the team and go with that, but if the last spot on your team is filled perfectly by Heatran, and no Mega can fill that gap as well as Heatran can, you run Heatran. Mind you, most of the Megas are good enough that that won't happen often, but it's not something that you need to check off a list the same way you would check off your Excadrill check or win condition. It's similar to how you don't need to run Pokemon in A or higher in the VR, but you do it anyways because they're that good and they typically fill an important role in your team in the first place. Basically there's no effect that Megas have on teambuilding besides preparing for them and not being able to run two of them. Also you don't need to run hazard removal if you aren't weak to it and your team doesn't allow opportunities to common setters. Having your own rocker is another matter entirely.
True, I know using a mega isn't nessacary but they centralize the meta in a way that you're handicapping yourself if you don't use one. Ive thought about that and I do agree with you their, I just think without Megas the meta may be more diverse.

And of course you can run a team with no hazard removal sucsessfully, but you have to plan for that. Pokemon like Volcorna, Charizard, Talonflame, among others are almost automatically not usuable on a team without hazard removal and if you are building a team with them it is nessacary to include hazard removal on your team. I understand where you were coming from, I was just trying to articulate some thoughts I had earlier on how while team building is flexible the meta puts some major constraints on certain viable pokemon forcing them to be a two pokemon package deal.
 
Hey so I made a thread and it got transferred here:

So bare with me, as somebody who's been around competitive Pokémon off and on since 4th gen and who is relatively familiar with team building, these are my observations.

Now we've always had a number of expected roles on a team, depending on what kind of team you're running. Keep in mind now almost every team has to go out of its way to run rocks and spin/Defoe. Let's say we want to build a team with two Defensive Pivots, Two Offensive Pivots, 1 Sweeper, and 1 Revenge killer.

Let's say we want to run a GWF core and our sweeper is weak to rocks forcing us to run a pivot that carries defog. Not to mention we already picked a defensive pivot off of its ability to use rocks.

Now we have 5 Pokémon but we realize that one of them isn't a mega so instead of that Pokémon that perfectly rounds out your team you have to search for a mega to fit in there to get the most value out of your build.

Anybody have any thoughts on how Mega's affect team building? And to a lesser extent stealth rocks and defog?
I never played competitive Pokemon before Gen 6 but I can agree your point that Mega's are restricting Team Building. I built in the past time couple teams where I forgot to put in a Mega what happend was that I realized it after like 2 or 3 games on the ladder. Something I want to add to the fact that Mega's has restricted Teambuilding is the fact that a team without a Mega is just to weak. My opinion on Hazard control is this: As long as you have no Pokemon weak to hazards hazard removal is not necessary.
 
True, I know using a mega isn't nessacary but they centralize the meta in a way that you're handicapping yourself if you don't use one. Ive thought about that and I do agree with you their, I just think without Megas the meta may be more diverse.

And of course you can run a team with no hazard removal sucsessfully, but you have to plan for that. Pokemon like Volcorna, Charizard, Talonflame, among others are almost automatically not usuable on a team without hazard removal and if you are building a team with them it is nessacary to include hazard removal on your team. I understand where you were coming from, I was just trying to articulate some thoughts I had earlier on how while team building is flexible the meta puts some major constraints on certain viable pokemon forcing them to be a two pokemon package deal.
Megas don't any further constraints on team-building than any other threat does. It's not by virtue of being a mega that pokemon is a threat or is 'good.' Scizor base-form is still viable and still needs to be prepared for the same way mega-zor does. I mean, our only 2 S-ranked mons are both non-mega.
Don't fall into the trap of believing you're missing out by not running a mega. It's like saying you're missing out by not running Clef, our decidedly most centralizing pokemon (tho I disagree that she is, a topic for another day), because you lose the role-compression by not using her.
Idk I just feel like this is the kind of sentiment that promotes robotic team-building and a vanilla meta, pigeon-holing yourself before even trying out different options.

and I wholeheartedly agree w this:

"If you've gotten to the point where you've got 5 mons and no Mega, sure you can slap on something with good synergy with the rest of the team and go with that, but if the last spot on your team is filled perfectly by Heatran, and no Mega can fill that gap as well as Heatran can, you run Heatran."
 
Wanna dispel a common misconception that building with cores based purely on typing is an effective way to build. This method is archaic in such an inflated meta. If you want to build an effective team, with a defensive backbone, it's much more effective to cover certain threats in the meta. Take for example, off the top of my head, Jirachi+Rotom+Latios+Lando+Keldeo+Mega; this team has few glaring weaknesses and is representative of the majority of bulky offence builds in some form. It doesn't feature any of the fabled FWG or SFD of DPF cores or whatever you want, yet it isn't auto-losing to a hell of a lot of the meta, why is this? It's because role compression and blanket checks are a hell of a lot more important than typing cores now, and always will be in an inflated meta.

Another massive mistake I see a lot in the OU room, and on here, is people arbitrarily asking for Pokemon to fill X role. For example, questions such as "What's a good special tank?". This is not only ineffective, counter-intuitive, but once again, outdated. There are a multitude of Pokemon which excel at taking hits on the special side, but it's pointless throwing on a Chansey, though it may be the premier special tank/wall, onto a bulky offence/balance/semi-stall team if you're struggling with Keldeo (yes I know Chansey doesn't beat Keldeo this is just an example), Volcanion, Zard-Y, etc. Identifying key weaknesses and throwing on something to remedy these is much more effective. This is thanks to the inflated meta, once again, and the fact that role compression and blanket checks are so so important, so important that I cannot add enough emphasis. The key to building a solid team is recognising what Pokemon provide support to the other members, and recognising your team's weaknesses and remedying them without using arbitrary Pokemon because of some made-up criteria that you must fill (see: typing cores, "what's a good tank?" "what's a good sweeper?" etc.). Letting go of this will make you a much more efficient builder, I can promise you. The lesson of these two paragraphs is: don't throw on random typing cores or Pokemon to fulfil pointless roles on certain teams. This is a hindrance to building now, and will get you nowhere outside of serendipitous fringe cases where the team will work. I hope this makes sense to people, because my building and stance on it is convoluted to explain, yet second-nature to me now.

As far as Megas go, I don't even recognise the term. Other than the one-per-team restriction, all they are is additional Pokemon, in essence. What I will say though, is that considering many people use a Mega as a starting point whilst building, and what they bring to the team in terms of role-compression, offensive prowess, or utility, it is unlikely that, a) you will find a team without a Mega, and, b) you should not be using one yourself. Their effect on building is this: you are at a disadvantage by not using one, and a lot of them are detrimental to the meta in conjunction with the many other viable and threatening Pokemon we have.

As far as hazard control goes, many teams are forgoing it as of late, which is acceptable if the team doesn't autolose to hazards stack or have multiple Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock, or a Pokemon such as Talonflame, Zard-Y, or Volcarona. As long as you can either provide enough offensive pressure to common hazard setters, or you team doesn't mind hazards too much (see: the random 5 'Mons I posted earlier), you're ok to drop hazard control in favour of coverage/Specs on Latios or Roost on Latias or just a different Pokemon altogether. Not going to say too much about how I feel about hazards in general, though, but I will say that I do not like the concept at all.

tldr: don't build in a shitty old way, role compression is king, you should have a mega, hazard control necessity is a team-by-team thing

edit: @below I'm unsure as to what you want in response, if I'm honest. They are incredibly powerful additions to the game which provide a hell of a lot to a team, and if you want evidence that teams are less viable without a Mega then go and watch all of the last OR/AS OU WCOP replays. That should be evidence enough that you should be using a mega, and that they greatly increase the viability of a team. Teams are unique, and have unique needs, as was the message of my post.

People who come to these threads come here for two reasons; to learn about battling and the current state of the meta, and to discuss battling and the current state of the meta. If they fit into the former category, they shouldn't be innovating anyway, for the most part, as innovation from those who are still learning the ropes ends up in disastrous sets like Specs Scizor or whatever these magicians cook up. The latter already know what is viable and have a grasp on what has merit as far as innovation goes and what is just a gimmick, so they're completely unaffected. I'm not saying leave innovation to the best of the best, just learn the meta before you try to innovate. After all, an innovative set is one that takes advantage of common meta trends, and if you don't know said meta trends/the meta, then you aren't innovating.
 
Last edited:
As far as Megas go.... Their effect on building is this: you are at a disadvantage by not using on, and a lot of them are detrimental to the meta in conjunction with the many other viable and threatening Pokemon we have.
I agree with much of the post, but this is not a healthy mentality (edited the quote to highlight the relevant point). I have seen no evidence to suggest that teams without megas are less viable than teams with megas. You should be building a team, not assembling 6 strong pokemon together. Teams are unique and have unique needs. Like so many things in life, a blanket statement like this will never be valid. [<< see, there are some cases where this statement itself won't be valid]

edit: i think i should articulate a point here. I think for people who come to these threads to learn about battling, statements that say so definitively 'this is what you should and shouldn't do in oras ou' are harmful cause they discourage innovation in an aggressive way. I say this about broader points like 'use a mega,' obviously not about specifics like 'don't run mono-attacking zardX cause you'll get walled'
 
Last edited:
I agree with much of the post, but this is not a healthy mentality (edited the quote to highlight the relevant point). I have seen no evidence to suggest that teams without megas are less viable than teams with megas. You should be building a team, not assembling 6 strong pokemon together. Teams are unique and have unique needs. Like so many things in life, a blanket statement like this will never be valid. [<< see, there are some cases where this statement itself won't be valid]

edit: i think i should articulate a point here. I think for people who come to these threads to learn about battling, statements that say so definitively 'this is what you should and shouldn't do in oras ou' are harmful cause they discourage innovation in an aggressive way. I say this about broader points like 'use a mega,' obviously not about specifics like 'don't run mono-attacking zardX cause you'll get walled'
I think this is proven by the lack of teams in any title tournament or vaguely high ladder that don't use a mega. There's practically no reason not to take advantage of a Mega when they either offer or can be game-changing with the right support. Obviously you're trying to maximize your odds to win so why wouldn't you focus on doing so via using the most viable options for a build? The amount of times where it's optimal not to use one (if you can show an example that's not Mega Ttar or Mega Latios) is so minimal that I don't think this argumentation has any impact or relevance.
 
It's quite evident that a team can be made strictly better just by slapping an appropriate Mega. Now, the matter in hand would be: Is it possible to make a good team without using Megas? Are Megas so significant Mega-less teams are pretty much borderline-unviable (Not even just gimmicks, but outright worthless)? A better team with a Mega is out of the question (The answer is pretty much always "yes").

(Kinda funny: I was thinking of asking this question out of curiosity about a month ago, but then did not do that because I thought "man, that's such a foolish question it's outright going to be deleted", only for a somewhat similar topic coming up)
 
Last edited:

Martin

gamer boy
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
I'd just like to say that, while I think the 'physical attacker+special attacker+physical wall+special wall+physical sweeper+special sweeper' mentality is fundamentally flawed, I feel that using type cores and roles as a basis for a build is not "outdated" in the sense that I have implied from skimming tiger jaw's post (please point me out if my post has misinterpreted yours). While I understand the point that he is trying to get across, type cores serve a very valuable purpose in teambuilding in that they provide very solid methods of achieving wide threat coverage from the get-go. Whether it be offensive cores like Zard-X+Starmie+Serperior, LopVile/LopSharp, LopGar, MediSharp/MediVile, Double Genie etc. or one of the many viable FWG backbones, they provide a solid basis to be built on top of even if they aren't as easy to integrate into builds once you have a few members integrated already. This eases off a lot of threat management later on due to the fact that you've got them covered already and as such it is a very valid structure to build upon. The same applies to specific roles within teams to an extent too, with physical wall+special wall (e.g. SkarmBlob) being good methods of creating a blanket structure to handle the majority of physical/special attackers (respectively) for more defensive teams, and with attacker+trapper (e.g. wallbreaker+Dugtrio or FairyMag/DragMag etc.) being very good archetype to build around. Hell, in a couple of cases it is an absolute necessity to assign roles that need to be filled by a team. On stall this means hazard control and a trapper (seriously, if your stall team lacks Pursuit or Dugtrio there are gonna be massive problems with your build); on Talon/Volcarona/Zard etc. teams this means hazard control measures; on offense this means speed control (priority, T-wave user, scarfer etc.) and Pokémon which share checks (e.g. "dark 1+dark 2"); on literally every team this means a rocker. There are others too, but my point is that to neglect the concept of roles entirely is not a very wise decision regardless of how arbitrary you may or may not consider said roles to be, and the same applies to general type synergy due to the fact that it creates simple methods of blanket threat management. That said, relying on them entirely and treating them as law is most certainly not a valid way to build, and I think that was probably what tiger's jaw was trying to get at.
 
I'm somewhat new to Smogon (My peak right now is just above 1500 on a different account) and I actually HAVE been noticing some similarity in team building, can someone go in depth about this so I can better understand it?
 
type cores serve a very valuable purpose in teambuilding in that they provide very solid methods of achieving wide threat coverage from the get-go. Whether it be offensive cores like Zard-X+Starmie+Serperior, LopVile/LopSharp, LopGar, MediSharp/MediVile, Double Genie etc. or one of the many viable FWG backbones, they provide a solid basis to be built on top of even if they aren't as easy to integrate into builds once you have a few members integrated already..
The thing about these cores is that their typing isn't what makes them good as much as the threats that they cover defensively or their general offensive synergy. With The Zard-X+Mie+Serp core, that core is a good core because Zardx is a physical setup sweeper that struggles with specific subsets of physically defensive Pokemon that strong special attackers in Starmie and Serperior tend to take on very well moreso than their actual typing. Looking at the one of the most common Pokemon in offensive backbones these days in Landorus-T, it excels partially because of its typing, but it really shines as a blanket check to a very large pool of physical attackers. Lando-T is considered an adequate offensive check to Talonflame, Mega Lopunny, Dragonite, Mega Charizard X, and many others in spite of not having any notable defensive resistances over these Pokemon by virtue of its natural bulk coupled by intimidate. While typing is most certainly an important factor to consider while team building, I believe that threat control is significantly more important because while Lando-T among other Pokemon lack typing that are supposed to let them beat a myriad of threats, but are still good because they can check many threats because of other reasons. I do agree with the fact that there are many good FWG, DFS, etc. cores out there, but the typing of the Pokemon in the cores isn't as important as many may think at first glance.

Will Attach MS Pain Masterpiece later
 
type cores have always just been a tool to help newer players with teambuilding. people have never been able to just slap a random water fire and grass onto a team and expect them to work well together. but three types working together is a more comprehensible idea for a new player than a list of specific threats that they probably dont know how to properly play against in the first place.

a lot of smogons old guides and tropes are meant to ease players into competitive play since its way easier to develop their skills by playing rather than reading teambuilding guides.
 
Has anyone been experimenting with ev spread and move sets for mega-Diance? I'm just getting back to using this thing and I've heard a lot has changed for it. I heard hp fire should always be run instead of earth power because beating scizor, ferrothorn and skarmory (some on the switch) is invaluable right now. Also I heard about a 252atk/4Spa/252Spd spread is coming to life because diamond storm invested let's diance beat chansey to help its stall match up but I've never seen it. Not sure if this is for the simple questions thread but because with the viability ranking overhaul, diance is still in A+ and I'm curious to see how it is fairing in the current meta game.
I honestly haven't had trouble with any of these as i cover them with focus sash volcarona with speed and spa investment and sweeping and clean up any other treats with defense and hp trained mega slowbro and same investment standard chansey. However, I found a new moveset for jiraichi i want you guys to try. cosmic power, powerup punch, wish/drainpunch and iron head. +def-attack, spd and hp investment. fun moveset
 

zbr

rendered asunder
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I honestly haven't had trouble with any of these as i cover them with focus sash volcarona with speed and spa investment and sweeping and clean up any other treats with defense and hp trained mega slowbro and same investment standard chansey. However, I found a new moveset for jiraichi i want you guys to try. cosmic power, powerup punch, wish/drainpunch and iron head. +def-attack, spd and hp investment. fun moveset
no. it may be fun for you but no. it's a no go. that set literally does nothing but be rly bad in the metagame. it's not like as if it gets shell armor so that you boost up freely and fighting and steel coverage almost covers the same few important mons you want to deal with. sash volc may work out for you, but it's not rly very good in general because it makes you so incredibly reliant on getting the hazards away as well as making you super weak cause in the case where sash isn't broken, you can only get up one boost at best and now you're more vulnerable to priorities than before. (Priority is everything bro) I think you may want to try out some other movesets that will work better at the cost of using the same mon.
 

Amoonguss

champagne papi


Is it just me or is this thing actually really really good rn. Being able to u-turn out vs all its counters into a trapper is just amazing. IMO This thing + Specs Keldeo actually demolishes almost every Bulky Offense/Any sort of offensive type build. Offences main way of beating this is either Heatan, or Scizor which both give keeled either a free scald, or a free secret sword (since if you're running a heatran/scizor rotom-w is usually paired well thanks to its ability of luring in clef, burning lando etc..). Another option is pairing it with a trapper, either magnezone or dugtrio both work nicely with this thing as they trap the main offensive counters to this thing. (Excluding Lando-t Of course) Oh also scarf mag is needed tbh since specs mag just loses to fast superpower scizor. Anyway this thing + anything that can beat landot/scizor = amazing.
 
I honestly haven't had trouble with any of these as i cover them with focus sash volcarona with speed and spa investment and sweeping and clean up any other treats with defense and hp trained mega slowbro and same investment standard chansey. However, I found a new moveset for jiraichi i want you guys to try. cosmic power, powerup punch, wish/drainpunch and iron head. +def-attack, spd and hp investment. fun moveset
i meant - special attack and i was using the set on mons like toxic chansey and cosmic power then wishingup.

no. it may be fun for you but no. it's a no go. that set literally does nothing but be rly bad in the metagame. it's not like as if it gets shell armor so that you boost up freely and fighting and steel coverage almost covers the same few important mons you want to deal with. sash volc may work out for you, but it's not rly very good in general because it makes you so incredibly reliant on getting the hazards away as well as making you super weak cause in the case where sash isn't broken, you can only get up one boost at best and now you're more vulnerable to priorities than before. (Priority is everything bro) I think you may want to try out some other movesets that will work better at the cost of using the same mon.
now, for jiraichi i meant - spa+def and i use it to set up on mons like chansey and with volcarona i usually pack defog, foulplay, roost and toxic w/ hp and def investment. i know it takes a bit of stealth rock damage but generally it can take a hit and roost up, then toxic and foul play away against offensive mons.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

cityscapes

Formerly Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request
is a Community Contributor
i meant - special attack and i was using the set on mons like toxic chansey and cosmic power then wishingup.
Secondly, I can tell you're kind of frustrated. After all, everyone seems to think your set is bad. And that's okay. I know the feeling.

Just in general, if you want to make a good set, make sure to consider the following:

  • How well does it fare against OU's top threats? (Landorus-T, Clefable, Latios, etc)
  • How does it do against different playstyles (HO, BO, balance, stall)?
  • Is the set completely outclassed by another Pokémon?
  • Does it require too much team support?
In addition, I recommend posting replays. Ideally, you'll want replays from a tournament, but high ladder ones of the set doing work can help just as much.

One more thing: Don't take any of the stuff that these people are saying personally! The people here are just criticizing your set, not you. Remember that you're the only one that can stop yourself from becoming a great player.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top