Resource ORAS OU Sets Viability Rankings V4 (See Post #229: Page 10)

[AM]

Idk man the notion of Defog Scizor seems really team specific and I don't necessarily agree with gamer boys blanket statement in that support megas are good cause it's a case by case thing, one that I don't think applies to Mega Scizor. You could technically classify most bulky megas with some sort of utility like M-Sableye as a support mega, even Wisp Char-X could fall under this criteria depending on how lenient you want to be with the term. Difference being they have either a huge centralizing presence to uphold, M-Sableye cockblocking almost all hazard setters, and Zard-X who maintains offensive prowess along with defensive utility in one package.

Defog Mega Scizors role is going to really be on predominately defensive teams I find cause after that there isn't much of a selling point to me to give up your potential to sweep an opposing team. It's gonna be used to counteract stuff like Excadrill and M-Gardevoir a bit better but even then suffers the potential to face an SD Excadrill or a Wisp Garde, and the offensive variants either bulky or offensive can kind of counteract the meta way more efficiently than the Defog variant does. What it's actually known and good at I think holds enough merit to drop Defog Mega Scizor to B+. Granted yeah Mega Scizor itself is good but it'll never be a case for just about anything on this list where every single set is almost on equal footing.

 

[Jaguar360]

Hoopa-C

SubNP --> B-
This set probably has the biggest niche over Hoopa-U, as it allows it to use its perfect coverage with STAB Shadow Ball + Focus Blast to the greatest effect. Substitute is also its best way to get past Pursuit and Sucker Punch, which ruin its life otherwise. It goes through defensive teams well and sets up on Chansey since its Ghost typing makes it immune to Seismic Toss.

Substitute + 3 Attacks --> B-/C+
Not sure if this should be ranked separately from the above, but it's probably worth talking about since Psyshock, Hyperspace Hole and Knock Off are good supplements to Shadow Ball and Focus Blast. The extra coverage comes in handy in the matchup against offense since Hoopa-C doesn't often come across opportunities to set up for 2 turns.

Offensive TR --> C/C+
Never used this one tbh, but it should probably be ranked. Does this better than Hoopa-U due to its lower speed mostly.

Assault Vest --> C-
Not sure if this one should be ranked tbh, but it spinblocks Starmie really efficiently and can carry a lot of coverage. However, it's Pursuit bait and mostly outclassed by Unbound form outside of said spinblocking and being able to switch into more Pokemon with the perks of its defensive typing (2 immunities + Poison resistance vs no resistances + Psyshic immunity).

I think Hoopa-U's sets are listed appropriately (Scarf could possibly get a bump up to A+) and agree with defensive Tangrowth being ranked since its bulk combined with utility options like Sleep Powder and Knock Off, and a slot for recovery outside of Regenerator and Leftovers in Synthesis make it a potent set in OU.

 

[MANNAT]

AV and scarf definitely should be moved up to A+ for hoopa u, and nasty plot should get moved down to A- or B+, hoopa u is just so powerful that it doesn't need to set up and cant really afford to take a hit from many attackers in the tier that it threatens unless they have to switch out in order for their trainer to win the game. RD TG manaphy's immunity to status and ability to still carry a coverage move should be warranted S rank. Belly drum flame charge is a niche option on zardx that could get a mention at B or B- rank imo. Offensive Clefable with life orb is a nice option at A- rank that can surprise mons that normally counter it, like heatran and scizor with LO flamethrower/focus blast. Offensive rocks exca deserved a nod at A- or B+ imo. Restalk mega gyara with dragon tail is a solid phaser as well as a specially defensive tank. Pup encore mlop and subpup should be included as separate lop sets. Banded Kyub could be added for B or B- rank. Double Dance (cm iron defense) Megabro should be added as an A rank set. Bulky QD volc should be added at B+. TR slowking and Victini should be added at B or B-. Double Dance terrak should be included as well.

 

[Vert]

AV and scarf definitely should be moved up to A+ for hoopa u, and nasty plot should get moved down to A- or B+, hoopa u is just so powerful that it doesn't need to set up and cant really afford to take a hit from many attackers in the tier that it threatens unless they have to switch out in order for their trainer to win the game. RD TG manaphy's immunity to status and ability to still carry a coverage move should be warranted S rank. Belly drum flame charge is a niche option on zardx that could get a mention at B or B- rank imo. Offensive Clefable with life orb is a nice option at A- rank that can surprise mons that normally counter it, like heatran and scizor with LO flamethrower/focus blast. Offensive rocks exca deserved a nod at A- or B+ imo. Restalk mega gyara with dragon tail is a solid phaser as well as a specially defensive tank. Pup encore mlop and subpup should be included as separate lop sets. Banded Kyub could be added for B or B- rank. Double Dance (cm iron defense) Megabro should be added as an A rank set. Bulky QD volc should be added at B+. TR slowking and Victini should be radded at B or B-. Double Dance terrak should be included as well.

scarf isn't really that potent in practice as people think. it is really easy to check right now and it is fairly weak too. being set up bait to bisharp for example is horrible. it is fine in a rank. nasty plot is fine since it prevents residual damage being stacked on you and allows you to avoid status in the long run which makes breaking so much easier. belly drum flame charge is a gimmick and shouldn't be ranked lol. why would you use this over dd flare blitz? dd resttalk dtail m-gyara sound like shit and it's not getting ranked. utility attacker is in a+ for mega lopunny and that's like the same as pup encore and subpup. banded kyu-b shouldn't be b rank lol. just use the physically based mix of the life orb set rofl. tr slowking and victini are too niche to be fit in b rank. cm iron defense should be a- not a rank because psyshock is needed to break other cm users and most importantly actually hit fighting types and most bulky waters for neutral damage. you can also break chansey with psyshock if well played and you have a heal bell user. thus cm 2 attacks should be always one sub rank higher than cm iron defense.r

everything else i didn't touch, i am iffy with/agree with, but please actually make your moms reasonable because most of the stuff you posted is complete garbage.

some nominations of my own:
np slowking for c+ because it can break balance teams with its good bulk and ridiculous coverage.
sd feraligatr should be c+ because it is a faster alternative to sd crawdaunt and has merits

 

[Jaguar360]

Onto some of the non-slate mons:

Keldeo
Minor thing here, but I think Rest + Sleep Talk should be renamed to just Defensive. Those last two slots dedicated to RestTalk could also be for utility moves like Taunt, Toxic and Protect. The actual set positioning is fine as is though.

Emboar
I'm tired of talking about this Pokemon and I know others are tired of me talking about it, but something needs to be addressed:
SubPunch unranked --> D
SubPunch is tied with Life Orb/E-belt as Emboar's best set in OU currently. Band and Scarf aren't as great anymore imo since mispredictions tend to be punished harder now with Garchomp and Heatran being so common. The former two sets can at least switch moves and are just a lot more free to do what they want. They also both have room for Sucker Punch.

SubPunch is particularly useful since Leftovers provides longevity for it and it gives Emboar a fighting STAB than doesn't force it to switch out. It's fourth moveslot can give Emboar some good utility with Toxic to wear down Slowbro and Garchomp, Sucker Punch for priority and Will-o-Wisp to wear down various physical attackers (Toxic is usually better though). SubPunch just makes Emboar easier to be of use in general, especially over Band.

I'm not sure if Band should go unranked though. It's still a pain to switch into and even TankChomp takes over half from Jolly CB Superpower.

Here is the SubPunch set for reference:
Emboar @ Leftovers
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Flare Blitz
- Toxic

Pangoro
Bulky Pivot unranked --> C-/D
I talked about this in the regular thread and think it is a set that should be taken into account when talking about Pangoro. I started using this not long after ORAS and posted on it for a Next Best Thing (which won btw).

Bulky Pivot Panda
Pangoro @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 212 HP / 40 Atk / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot
- Toxic / Gunk Shot
Pangoro's 95/78/71 bulk doesn't look too special, but it's actually nice and allows it to take hits and function as a bulky pivot. On this set, Pangoro's goal is to take (mostly physical) hits, spread poison, Knock Off items, and weaken Pokemon to create setup opportunities and deal with certain sweepers in emergencies. 212 HP EVs reach a Leftovers number, 232 Def gets the jump from 273 to 275 Def and the 24 Speed EVs allow Pangoro to outspeed uninvested Tyranitar.

This Pangoro set works best with a cleric of sorts, whether it be a Wishpasser, a Heal Bell/Aromatherapy user or a Healing Wish user. It fits well onto VoltTurn teams as well as balance and bulky offensive teams. It really is a handy support Pokemon and does its job even better when it receives support itself.

I start using this soon after ORAS came out and have recently put it on a team with Healing Wish Latias, two U-turn users in Landoge and Mega Beedrill and Serperior and it's been performing nicely in its own little ways. Here is a replay where it does some work early game, allowing Serperior to sweep:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-202032764

What up there remains true now. Pangoro with defense investment pivots into most physical attackers, particularly Bisharp and Weavile (Low Kick hurts though) and the slow Parting Shot is useful for providing setup opportunities for teammates. Having STAB Drain Punch for recovery is also a nice trait and it can still lure Fairies with Gunk Shot if it wants. It also gets past Mega Sableye either w/ Mold Breaker Toxic or Scrappy Drain Punch.

So yeah, it's actually a pretty good set that should be ranked alongside the typical wallbreaker set.

 

[bludz]

If you are going to make nominations please use a format that is easy to read. Jaguar360's post is a good example. Lumping everything into one paragraph makes it difficult to sort through.

 

[MANNAT]

Sorry, lemme make some more reasonable noms, (i was just using a gimmick team and got excited about a few sets)

Bulky QD Volc (with roost) to B+
This set lets volc set up on bulky waters so much more easily, and it has much longer longevity. This set also is generally a lot more bulky vs attackers and finds a lot more opportunities to set up. It isn't quite as powerful as offensive QD and doesnt have as much coverage, so it should be ranked one sub rank lower.

LO Offensive Clefable to A-
This set surprises so many of Clef's usual "counters" like Heatran, MZor, and Ferro with LO boosted Focus blast for the former one and flamethrower for the latter two. This set also hits a lot harder than the opponent expects, so they may be caught off guard by moonblast doing large amounts of damage as well as having reliable recovery in softboiled to heal off damage sustained from faster opponents, but should be .

Offensive Rocks Exca to B
This set is pretty good because exca can actually threaten defoggers offensively and do a lot of damage to slower mons. it has enough power to actually break through fairies (bar azu) and in general is a nice offensive rocker. However, spdef exca is much more bulky as a rocker, and it has competition with terrak and mamo as an offensive rocker, but is good enough for B rank because of mold breaker and steel STAB.

RD TG manaphy to S
This thing's immunity to status and ability to still carry a coverage move should be warranted S rank. It can break through stall with the immunuity to status and still has an open slot just for coverage depending on the team, and this thing's ability to break through stall, semi-stall, and balance with rain boosted scalds and hydration is warranted for S rank imo.

Double Dance Slowbro-Mega to A-
This thing can shit on teams so easily after its counters are gone. Most teams only have 1 strong grass electric or dark, so this thing can sweep easily with support.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Sorry, lemme make some more reasonable noms, (i was just using a gimmick team and got excited about a few sets)

Bulky QD Volc (with roost) to B+
This set lets volc set up on bulky waters so much more easily, and it has much longer longevity. This set also is generally a lot more bulky vs attackers and finds a lot more opportunities to set up. It isn't quite as powerful as offensive QD and doesnt have as much coverage, so it should be ranked one sub rank lower.

LO Offensive Clefable to A-
This set surprises so many of Clef's usual "counters" like Heatran, MZor, and Ferro with LO boosted Focus blast for the former one and flamethrower for the latter two. This set also hits a lot harder than the opponent expects, so they may be caught off guard by moonblast doing large amounts of damage as well as having reliable recovery in softboiled to heal off damage sustained from faster opponents, but should be .

Offensive Rocks Exca to B
This set is pretty good because exca can actually threaten defoggers offensively and do a lot of damage to slower mons. it has enough power to actually break through fairies (bar azu) and in general is a nice offensive rocker. However, spdef exca is much more bulky as a rocker, and it has competition with terrak and mamo as an offensive rocker, but is good enough for B rank because of mold breaker and steel STAB.

RD TG manaphy to S
This thing's immunity to status and ability to still carry a coverage move should be warranted S rank. It can break through stall with the immunuity to status and still has an open slot just for coverage depending on the team, and this thing's ability to break through stall, semi-stall, and balance with rain boosted scalds and hydration is warranted for S rank imo.

I have never even heard of LO clefable, although I've actually considered it and it does sound pretty cool. A CM set could be interesting, and potentially pretty good for offense even. It loses on unaware's ability to stop setup sweepers, but it could act as a solid wincon due to its still impressive bulk paired with magic guard to hurt balance/stall teams. Not to mention, it can [probably] check weavile pretty well, I'd assume, which is super popular atm.

I don't have anything specific to say about the other noms, but they sound solid enough.

 

[MANNAT]

I have never even heard of LO clefable, although I've actually considered it and it does sound pretty cool. A CM set could be interesting, and potentially pretty good for offense even. It loses on unaware's ability to stop setup sweepers, but it could act as a solid wincon due to its still impressive bulk paired with magic guard to hurt balance/stall teams. Not to mention, it can [probably] check weavile pretty well, I'd assume, which is super popular atm.

I don't have anything specific to say about the other noms, but they sound solid enough.

LO offensive clef is life orb magic gaurd with moonblast fire blast focus blast/other coverage and softboiled with max hp max spa, it is meant to surprise its counters and make way for sweepers to sweep, it pairs quite well with dd mono attacking malt and similar mons.

 

[bludz]

Just so you know, when we redid the rankings, the team intentionally left out life orb Clefable. We can reconsider ranking but it is very unlikely to be in the A ranks.

The reasons it's kind of bad are multiple:

1. You are using an S rank Pokemon but choose to forgo one of its better sets in favor of a suboptimal lure set. This is an opportunity cost that cannot be overlooked.

2. Other Pokemon pull off lure sets better. Clefable has a good movepool and decent power with a Life Orb but outside of things it hits super effectively is frankly underwhelming.

3. Without investment in defenses it is being 2HKOd by just about everything, and on top of that it is slow. At least lure Mons like Jirachi and Celebi can out speed some things.

As for bulky Volc and SR Exca those are things I could see being added to the rank you nominated them for. We will discuss the possibility of ranking them.

 

[urban]

Gonna comment on a few things people have mentioned, but I'm too lazy to quote.

Scarf Hoopa U is easily A+ material. It is able to blow past a number of the checks that the LO set has and makes a really nice revenege killer/late game cleaner. I think someone mentioned that it was weak, but mixed 160/170 attacking stats is not weak by any means. Look at other relevant scarfers for comparison's sake - Garchomp (130), Lando-T (145), Keldeo (129). Low physical defense means that priority can pick you off pretty easily, but once prio is removed Scarf Hoopa just wrecks offense, and it still has good enough power to threaten balance.

Double Dance Mega Slowbro is just too one dimensional and doesn't add a whole lot to what Mega Bro can do. I would much rather run an extra coverage slot or just run Crobro. LO Clefable is asscheeks and a complete waste of the defensive utility that Clefable can provide. Not to mention you are now 2hko'ed by a bunch of stuff that Clefable is supposed to check. Offensive Rocks Excadrill just seems outclassed in its role. Yeah, I get that mold breaker is cool to get up rocks versus magic bouncers, but it has zero bulk when uninvested, a ton of common weaknesses, and middling speed when compared to other offensive rockers. I think all three of these sets should remain unranked.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Also to add on to Double Dance slowbro, that effectively a slash on the main calm mind set. I mean, I know we have it listed as Cm 2 Attacks but in practice your just forgoing that second move for Iron Defense. Not only is that incredibly niche, it lacks any notable distinction with the main set.

Life Orb Clef is slow, frail, not too great of a lure to begin with (A lot of people, myself included, augment the speed on our normal clefs so that ferro isn't a counter) and just overall dead weight in many matchups.

Bulky QD rona is something I feel sets up on very little compared to the normal QD set. Sorta hard to get going for this set, but I won't lie that it's very threatening once it does.

 

[AM]

LO clef is indeed asscheeks. Shouldnt be ranked tbh.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

HoopaU choice scarf to S

Choice scarf Hoopa is just a monster in the current metagame, a set of Hyperspace Fury, Gunk shot and drain punch has almost no switchs in offence, even dark resists like Bisharp can't switch more than once. Hoopa really isn't that slow, if you invest enough for 271 you're outspeeding Mega Loounny, Weavile, Mega Manetric and flat out beat all of them. It's always a prediction on offence, as there's a 30% chance you just lose something. But it still has one free move sloy, where you can put HP Ice, Fire, Grass Knot, Zen headbutt, Thunderbolt ect, this things excellent move-pool allows it to easily switch it up. All around a tremendously powerful pokemon with the chops to absolutely demolish offence, it's great special bulk gives it free switchs in, inbetween that and revenge killing this thing is an absolute monster

 

[MANNAT]

HoopaU choice scarf to S

Choice scarf Hoopa is just a monster in the current metagame, a set of Hyperspace Fury, Gunk shot and drain punch has almost no switchs in offence, even dark resists like Bisharp can't switch more than once. Hoopa really isn't that slow, if you invest enough for 271 you're outspeeding Mega Loounny, Weavile, Mega Manetric and flat out beat all of them. It's always a prediction on offence, as there's a 30% chance you just lose something. But it still has one free move sloy, where you can put HP Ice, Fire, Grass Knot, Zen headbutt, Thunderbolt ect, this things excellent move-pool allows it to easily switch it up. All around a tremendously powerful pokemon with the chops to absolutely demolish offence, it's great special bulk gives it free switchs in, inbetween that and revenge killing this thing is an absolute monster

Choice Scarf Hoopa is a good set yes, but it is simply too easy to take advantage of when hoopa is locked into using one move WITHOUT THE LO BOOST MAY I POINT OUT and it is still slow enough to get outsped by megazam/aero/bee. After using a move, hoopa u becomes set up bait for many of OU's premier sweepers and is generally not strong enough to knock out any neutral targets (bar things with dogshsit defense like talon and thundy). It is a great set that can do well vs offense, but it is not worthy of S rank due to the weaker power and how easy it is to take advantage of it. (it cant even knock out wobbu with hyperspace fury)

Calcs vs Setup Sweepers

252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Mega Slowbro: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (double dance)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 104-123 (32.1 - 38%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (cm)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 71-84 (20.1 - 23.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO (dd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 114-135 (32.2 - 38.2%) -- 96.6% chance to 3HKO (dd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 253-298 (79.3 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (sd then acro)
-1 252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 139-165 (41.7 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (sdrp)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 204-241 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this thing gets justified for hyperspace fury)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 192-226 (70.8 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 199-235 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (subsd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 121-143 (40.3 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (sd twice vs a team w/o priority)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 270-320 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (bulky sd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Mega Scizor: 256-304 (74.6 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (bulky sd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (belly drum)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 99-117 (30.6 - 36.2%) -- 58.2% chance to 3HKO (dd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 178-210 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (dd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 272-320 (79.7 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this can come in on either STAB, and stone edge almost always OHKOs anyways)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 84+ Def Mega Latias: 111-131 (30.5 - 36%) -- 48.6% chance to 3HKO (you bring in cm latias off a sack)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Manaphy: 138-163 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- 50.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (cm)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 192-226 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (rest tg rd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 248 HP / 124+ Def Mega Sableye: 130-154 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO (only msab set i could find)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 126-148 (31.1 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (crocune)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Reuniclus: 140-165 (33 - 38.9%) -- 8.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (cm after sack)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 270-318 (68.7 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (kills hoopa u)
Yes, these are cherry picked, but they are assuming that you let something die, and you come in with your setup sweeper and sweep, i hope you get the idea

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Choice Scarf Hoopa is a good set yes, but it is simply too easy to take advantage of when hoopa is locked into using one move WITHOUT THE LO BOOST MAY I POINT OUT and it is still slow enough to get outsped by megazam/aero/bee. After using a move, hoopa u becomes set up bait for many of OU's premier sweepers and is generally not strong enough to knock out any neutral targets (bar things with dogshsit defense like talon and thundy). It is a great set that can do well vs offense, but it is not worthy of S rank due to the weaker power and how easy it is to take advantage of it. (it cant even knock out wobbu with hyperspace fury)

Calcs vs Setup Sweepers

252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Mega Slowbro: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (double dance)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 104-123 (32.1 - 38%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (cm)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 71-84 (20.1 - 23.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO (dd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 114-135 (32.2 - 38.2%) -- 96.6% chance to 3HKO (dd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 253-298 (79.3 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (sd then acro)
-1 252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 139-165 (41.7 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (sdrp)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 204-241 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this thing gets justified for hyperspace fury)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 192-226 (70.8 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 199-235 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (subsd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 121-143 (40.3 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (sd twice vs a team w/o priority)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 270-320 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (bulky sd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Mega Scizor: 256-304 (74.6 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (bulky sd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (belly drum)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 99-117 (30.6 - 36.2%) -- 58.2% chance to 3HKO (dd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 178-210 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (dd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 272-320 (79.7 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this can come in on either STAB, and stone edge almost always OHKOs anyways)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 84+ Def Mega Latias: 111-131 (30.5 - 36%) -- 48.6% chance to 3HKO (you bring in cm latias off a sack)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Manaphy: 138-163 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- 50.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (cm)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 192-226 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (rest tg rd)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 248 HP / 124+ Def Mega Sableye: 130-154 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO (only msab set i could find)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 126-148 (31.1 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (crocune)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Reuniclus: 140-165 (33 - 38.9%) -- 8.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (cm after sack)
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 270-318 (68.7 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (kills hoopa u)
Yes, these are cherry picked, but they are assuming that you let something die, and you come in with your setup sweeper and sweep, i hope you get the idea

Yes, but the 50/50s it creates are insane. For example, hoopa comes in on something it threatens, then they can either try to predict the switch and go coverage or just spam HsF and very likely net a kill. What happens when you expect to have a safe switch for keldeo, but then they catch it and use zen headbutt? I know that prediction is a weak argument, but hoopa creates so much pressure that it really kind of eases prediction for the player using it. And worst comes to worst, hoopa switches out and comes back in when it gets an opprtunity. It's kinda like greninja in a way in that it is really hard to read and applies ridiculous pressure which makes it super stupid to face. This is all referring to the scarf set in particular, tho it kinda applies to hoopa in general.

 

[MANNAT]

Yes, but the 50/50s it creates are insane. For example, hoopa comes in on something it threatens, then they can either try to predict the switch and go coverage or just spam HsF and very likely net a kill. What happens when you expect to have a safe switch for keldeo, but then they catch it and use zen headbutt? I know that prediction is a weak argument, but hoopa creates so much pressure that it really kind of eases prediction for the player using it. And worst comes to worst, hoopa switches out and comes back in when it gets an opprtunity. It's kinda like greninja in a way in that it is really hard to read and applies ridiculous pressure which makes it super stupid to face. This is all referring to the scarf set in particular, tho it kinda applies to hoopa in general.

The problem with the scarf set is that after you use your move, Hoopa becomes set up bait for many set up sweepers, (and some like defensive mega alt can switch into anything) and doesnt hit as hard as the life orb set. If a set is ranked S, then it should be because it is an all around great set, not because predicting possible switch ins to the mon has a chance to net a KO for you.

 

[bludz]

Alright it hasn't been long but here's our first update:

Hoopa-U: Choice Scarf A -> A+
Mega Scizor: Defog A- -> B+
Mega Slowbro: Offensive Tank B+ -> B
Hoopa-C: Assault Vest Unranked -> B-
Hoopa-C: Nasty Plot Unranked -> B-
Tangrowth: Physically Defensive Unranked -> C

Basically we had done Hoopa-U's sets while it was still in A+ so the move of Choice Scarf up made a lot of sense, I had just happened to leave it in A while only raising LO to S. It's weak to priority but is decently fast with good coverage and good power still.

Scizor the points were basically laid out and I think that while in terms of as a pokemon it's still kind of in the A ranks as a threat the set just doesn't realize its full potential.

Mega Slowbro is a similar situation to Hoopa where it had recently risen so I just gave all its sets a bump up but yeah offensive tank isn't that great.

Tangrowth we decided to rank after input about it from more than just urban - not that I don't trust him but generally best to get multiple opinions.

Hoopa-C was the interesting case. I think it's safe to say none of us have used it extensively as it is largely outclassed by Hoopa-U. That said we felt like due to its decent special bulk and typing that an AV set should be ranked above Nasty Plot simply on checking things like Keldeo better and spinblocking offensive Starmie a lot more reliably. Shadow Ball still hits like a truck unboosted. Nasty Plot was still put in B- because it clearly has the ability to dent just about anything but with a meh defensive typing it is only going to set up in certain situations.

Discussion points:

Manaphy: TG + RD A+ -> S
Azumarill: Assault Vest A -> A-
Kingdra: Life Orb B -> B+
Volcarona: Bulky QD Unranked -> B
Scizor: Swords Dance -> above Choice Band
Reuniclus: Offensive Trick Room B- -> C+

There's already been some discussion on Manaphy so we'll go along with that. Spoke to AM and he thinks AV Azu should be A- although the team agreed it's underrated but we wanna hear your guys' thoughts. Kingdra I still don't think has been touched on much. Volcarona's bulky set added as a discussion point. Scizor I think at this point in the metagame where CB is the most prepared for base set might be a little bit better utilizing SD (offensive and defensive variants alike) even if it is mostly outclassed by mega. Reuniclus basically on the fact that Trick Room is shit and while theoretically this wreaks havoc on offense simply leaves your team vulnerable if it gets revenged by priority or you actually need to switch out.

EDIT:

As a tag on here's another discussion point:

Heatran: Choice Scarf B+ -> A-

It's a solid late game cleaner with water types out of the way since it has pretty nice STAB moves and the bulk to still provide defensive utility. Cleaner that still softens teams during earlier phases of the game probably shouldn't be ranked in the B ranks.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

The problem with the scarf set is that after you use your move, Hoopa becomes set up bait for many set up sweepers, (and some like defensive mega alt can switch into anything) and doesnt hit as hard as the life orb set. If a set is ranked S, then it should be because it is an all around great set, not because predicting possible switch ins to the mon has a chance to net a KO for you.

It's not that it can possibly get a kill, it's that it's REALLY hard to switch in on. Basically, it's a game of "which poke am I more willing to sack." Also, gunk shot deals a minimum of like 65% to bulky dragon dance, so...

 

[MANNAT]

It's not that it can possibly get a kill, it's that it's REALLY hard to switch in on. Basically, it's a game of "which poke am I more willing to sack." Also, gunk shot deals a minimum of like 65% to bulky dragon dance, so...

kyurem-B is also REALLY hard to switch in on, but it is lower ranked than S because choice users in general are flawed, and the fact that it is setup bait after it kills something

 

[JTD783]

I'll discuss two mons that I have some experience with: Azumarill and Volcarona.

AV Azumarill, in my opinion, should drop to A-. It's good, yes, and can survive hits that it normally wouldn't, but that's basically all there is going for it. Azumarill really misses the KO's that band gives it and the sweeping potential from belly drum. Furthermore, Azumarill does live hits with AV, but it still can't switch very well, and when it does it often fails to achieve KO's. Due to the underwhelming bulk and power of this set (albeit the good power and bulk of Azumarill in general) I support a Drop to A-.

Bulky QD Volcarona should rise to B-. While offensive QD is more immediately threatening (and better IMO), a bulky set is more than capable of setting up in front of fat mons that can't touch it (such as skarm without whirlwind and MG clef without twave) and proceeding to blow teams apart. It's similar to Mega Altaria's DDD set in this way, but obviously doesn't have nearly as good offensive or defensive typing. Sadly, this Volcarona needs more support because it can only really run Fire Blast/Fiery Dance plus a coverage move, leaving it to be walled by something no matter what it chooses. Regardless, Bulky QD Volcarona can be very threatening and even more dangerous than an offensive QD variant if set up. To summarize, this set's bulk, which makes set-up easier, and frightening power after a couple boosts makes it worth using, enough so to make it Rise to B-.

 

[bludz]

littlelucario i think you're overplaying scarf hoopa u as "setup fodder"

it still 2hko'd like half that list lol which means all you need is some priority in the back anyway

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

kyurem-B is also REALLY hard to switch in on, but it is lower ranked than S because choice users in general are flawed, and the fact that it is setup bait after it kills something

Kyurem B is not nearly as hard to switch in on, especially scarfed, due to its significantly decreased power. If you make a mistake, then you change tactics and switch something else in. It probably won't straight up ohko anything with any bulk, unlike hoopa, which just smashes through tons of stuff like it's made of something weak. Like papier-mâché. Or Raditz.

 

[Dratios]

Gonna repeat what I said on the old thread here:

I'd like to get SubPunch Hoopa-U or simply Substitute Hoopa-U ranked as a set in A or A+. It abuses the switches that Hoopa-U forces, and has excellent payoff in absorbing status, etc. In addition, its Substitutes are surprisingly resilient, being able to occasionally tank Rotom-W's Volt Switch and unboosted Suicune's Scald (lol) with absolutely no investment. With a good amount of investment, its Sub can tank SpDef Tran's Lava Plume and KO back with a Focus Punch + H-fury, or it can set up CMs or Nasty Plots against it.

In addition, I'd like to see Bulky SubSD Excadrill or any SubSD Excadrill ranked in at least B, as it can set Subs easily against Ferro, Rotom-W, and other tanks and proceed to SD on its face / Mold Breaker EQ it. Exca forces a good amount of switches. In my opinion, this is a set that's good for Excadrill, but not optimal.

 

[AM]

Sub Hoopa-U consolidates Life Orb Hoopa-U. No need to get into a specific that isn't even an exclusivity to itself. Same thing with Exca.