I can attempt to answer this. Usually the really specific EV spreads are to avoid an OHKO or 2HKO of specific attacks, or to avoid Sub breaks. If those 24 Defense EVs avoid the 2HKO from Banded Azumarill's Play Rough (for example), and they don't help in outspeeding anything significant, why not?
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Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers MKII (Read the OP First!) (Now with 100% more Rules!!!)
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
I can attempt to answer this. Usually the really specific EV spreads are to avoid an OHKO or 2HKO of specific attacks, or to avoid Sub breaks. If those 24 Defense EVs avoid the 2HKO from Banded Azumarill's Play Rough (for example), and they don't help in outspeeding anything significant, why not?
Maybe I am just a bad player or I've been using Heatran wrongly but why is Heatran considered so good and splashable in OU? It's said to check a lot of things but from my experience using it (maybe I'm doing it wrong) it just doesn't do its job as well as people claimed.
1) Electrics: Most of the time, it's playing out like this. If it's SpD Heatran, it takes Rocks damage + Thunderbolt, then the Electric Volt Switches out while Heatran does whatever it wants. After that, it's in 2HKO range of Thunderbolt if it switches into Rocks again. Offensive variants simply faint to 2 Thunderbolts so it can't even switch-in.
2) Fairies: Most Fairies such as Azumarill, Mega Altaria, Mega Gardevoir and Mega Diancie carry Super Effective moves against it and with the exception of Azumarill, they all outspeed it. Even Clefable has a chance of beating it if Clef already has a CM up when Heatran switches in (unless Heatran is an Offensive variant).
3) Steels: Excadrill stomps you. Bisharp OHKOes you at +2 after Rocks. Mega Meta's Hammer Arm OHKOes you after Rocks. I guess it does win against Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, Skarmory, Jirachi and Klefki.
4) Grass: You win against non-Earth Power Celebi, non-HP Ground Serperior and Chesnaught (Hammer Arm 2HKOes you though). Breloom stomps you. Mega Venusaur wears you down with Leech Seed while you can only fish for a burn.
5) Dragons: Garchomp stomps you. Kyurem-B Earth Powers you. Lati@s has Surf / Earthquake to nail you. You do wall Zard-X who do not carry Earthquake but you still can't do shit to it except Toxic. Offensive variants can use Earth Power against it, however.
6) Other stuff: You win against Mew and SpD Sableye, I guess. However, CM Eye uses you as set-up bait.
So, yeah, I think I've listed things people claimed it can do but didn't seem to work as well in practice.
1) Electrics: Most of the time, it's playing out like this. If it's SpD Heatran, it takes Rocks damage + Thunderbolt, then the Electric Volt Switches out while Heatran does whatever it wants. After that, it's in 2HKO range of Thunderbolt if it switches into Rocks again. Offensive variants simply faint to 2 Thunderbolts so it can't even switch-in.
2) Fairies: Most Fairies such as Azumarill, Mega Altaria, Mega Gardevoir and Mega Diancie carry Super Effective moves against it and with the exception of Azumarill, they all outspeed it. Even Clefable has a chance of beating it if Clef already has a CM up when Heatran switches in (unless Heatran is an Offensive variant).
3) Steels: Excadrill stomps you. Bisharp OHKOes you at +2 after Rocks. Mega Meta's Hammer Arm OHKOes you after Rocks. I guess it does win against Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, Skarmory, Jirachi and Klefki.
4) Grass: You win against non-Earth Power Celebi, non-HP Ground Serperior and Chesnaught (Hammer Arm 2HKOes you though). Breloom stomps you. Mega Venusaur wears you down with Leech Seed while you can only fish for a burn.
5) Dragons: Garchomp stomps you. Kyurem-B Earth Powers you. Lati@s has Surf / Earthquake to nail you. You do wall Zard-X who do not carry Earthquake but you still can't do shit to it except Toxic. Offensive variants can use Earth Power against it, however.
6) Other stuff: You win against Mew and SpD Sableye, I guess. However, CM Eye uses you as set-up bait.
So, yeah, I think I've listed things people claimed it can do but didn't seem to work as well in practice.
So apparently there's been some talk about suspecting Gothitelle, on the grounds that it's broken/uncompetitive. My question is, if it's so broken, why is it only ranked B on the viability chart? You'd think that something with that much influence on the metagame would be a little higher than that.
Some People are convinced That trapping is broken because it can elimante checks to certain archtype's for little cost. In the past it was panned for pretty much decimating stall as she with the specs set could pick up apart defensive cores at will. Now things are turned on there heads and its considered to be the sole thing keeping it alive in the face of powerful wallbreakers such as manaphy, Gardevoir, Zards or Nastypass + Diancie. To sum it up Gothitelle as I stated in the thread I made months back http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gothitelle-revamp.3535992/ it can be tailored to trap pretty much anything you want and people are finally catching on to it. While I think sableye is a part of the issue I do think suspect hype is overblown
The Worry is that its increasing presence will force people to carry random shed shells, U-turns or make arbitary double switch on those Key pokemon in order to avoid losing them Vs key Archtypes. Honestly B rank is a fair place for where it is as It cant trap everything and with all the dark spam about along with switch moves is very match-up orientated but Its not unprecedented for a Pokemon under A to be Suspected. Gen 4 Wobufeet was suspected after 1 person with 5 different alts took all top 5 place'son the ladder using it. Before that wobufeet was basically unheard of. Its ultimily up to you to decide if goth is broken but dont be surprised if it gets tested
Random Passerby Heatran compresses a lot of very important roles on teams and frees up teambuilding a ton, to the point where it's often a very nice thing to have on your team. It's a SR setter, a status spreader, a semi-stallbreaker, it acts as a check to dangerous stuff like Talonflame, Latis (EQ isn't too common, and those that carry EQ don't carry HP Fire which is defenitely something to take into consideration in teambuilding), Scizor, Venusaur, Serperior, it can trap, revenge kill, lure, it's just a very versatile Pokemon in general. If you only look at it defensively then I can see why you'd be underwhelmed, but Heatran has the tools to put pressure on a lot of teams thanks to its movepool and typing, particularly the fact that nothing bar Starmie and Gliscor want to switch into both Lava Plume and Toxic from it, so its popularity defenitely makes sense when you realise how tricky it can be for a lot of teams to properly deal with.
If you want more details, you can read through the dozen+ posts begging Heatran to not drop to A rank on the viability rankings, which start about here and carry on for like 7 pages
If you want more details, you can read through the dozen+ posts begging Heatran to not drop to A rank on the viability rankings, which start about here and carry on for like 7 pages
+1 neutral char-X, opposing scarf lando (assuming +spe),
EDIT: thanks for pointing out Ksh13
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How does neutral Scarf Landorus-T not outspeed M-Mane and M-Lopunny?
Guess i misread the speed tiers thread. Sorry
Could anybody rate a few teams for me? Or is there a list of the people with the team rater badge? (U don't have to have the badge to rate mine)
I'm your man :) Just PM it in the convo that we already are in.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/pages/badgeholders/
For future reference if looking for TRs or whatever badge.
Gyarados has Intimidate, Flying and Dark STABs, while Gatr has Life Orb + Sheer Force and Fighting coverage to get past the likes of Ferrothorn. It also has SD, but it's not that great.
Gatr hits harder due to Sheer Force with the exception of Crunch since Mega Gyarados gets STAB. The higher damage output allows OHKOs at +1 that Mega Gyarados can't land against examples like physically defensive Hippowdon. Gatr can beat Ferrothorn and Kyurem-B and has priority in the form of Aqua Jet to deal with the likes of Talonflame and Sand Rush Excadrill. On the other hand Mega Gyarados has a generally easier time setting up due to Intimidate and can beat Rotom-W and Mega Venusaur.
Mega Swampert, full stop. Swift Swim plus rain-boosted Waterfall plus Electric immunity (watch out for Grassers, though).
Thanks!
Wow I have no clue how mega pert didn't occur to me, I love that mon O_o
Is this a place that I can get an opinion about a move decision for a lucario that I have?( I'm new to the forums) I need an opinion to choose between 3 moves and I want to know which would be best. This is the hardest decision I've made right now and I need someone else's opinion.
You can always ask here. You can also check out its SmogDex entry for ideas, which can be found here: http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/lucario/
Yes, of course. It'd also be recommended to post what other teammates you have to judge what would be the most suitable move to give Lucario (for instance most of the time there's no point giving it a move that covers something if you already have another Pokémon on the team that covers that thing).
Ok, thanks. I have had this Lucario since X and Y came out and it's been there for me through thick and thin, he is my right hand and has always been there for me all the way to ORAS. He is a physical Lucario and is able to hit 12/18 types super effectively and one of the moves it has is Shadow Claw to compete against Psychics and Ghosts. But, this morning I learned it could learn Bite and Crunch through breeding and I am going to breed a new Lucario someday. I thought of using Crunch to lower defense to increase power for Close Combat stab power, but Bite has a big flinch chance as well but is the weakest of the 3 I am currently trying to decide between. I've been using Shadow Claw since Pokemon X and the critical hit chance works great. So what is troubling me is which one of the 3 is best:
(Ghost)Shadow claw: 70 base power w/100 acc. 15pp w/high critical hit rate
(Dark)Bite: 60 base power w/100 acc. 25pp w/30% flinch chance
(Dark)Crunch: 80 base power w/100 acc. 15pp W/ 20% chance to lower defense
(Ghost)Shadow claw: 70 base power w/100 acc. 15pp w/high critical hit rate
(Dark)Bite: 60 base power w/100 acc. 25pp w/30% flinch chance
(Dark)Crunch: 80 base power w/100 acc. 15pp W/ 20% chance to lower defense
