I don't really buy this tbh. Shaping the meta and being the most viable in the meta are two different things. If fact, wouldn't the meta adapting to something make it less viable? iirc during XY some people thought Venusaur should rise from rank X to rank Y because it forced teams to carry certain types of coverage to break it. Well, teams adapted by carrying more Flying and Psychic coverage and that made Venu less viable than anything. Are teams carrying more Gross answers than they were ~3 months ago? Yes. Are those answers specifically for Metagross, in the vein of Arcanine-Mega Mawile? No. Tank Chomp, Slowking and the like are all viable outside of checking Gross. That's healthy adaptation imo. There's also threats in the A ranks that force the meta to adapt / force teams to carry specific answers, such as Lopunny, Char-Y, and Talonflame.
I mean, you can say Metagross only having "three counters" is an S rank trait, but that's ignoring a few things. Metagross has a number of common checks depending on what it carries for a fourth move. Also, Metagross' checks tend to be rather complimentary in nature. Most fat Grounds in general handle Metagross well and it's easy to pair it with a check that handles other Metagross sets. Slowbro-Garchomp for example diffuses most Metagross rather well. Chomper takes down the Grass Knot Gross and Slwobro checks the Ice Punch Gross. That's only an example and I'm sure there's more. This extends to a lot of non-S rank threats as well (ie using cores of complimentary checks to handle threats efficiently).
I think this is ignoring how offensive checks actually work. You won't really find an offensive check to Gross that can switch into every move because that really doesn't exist lol. For example Raikou may not be able to stomach every move Metagross can throw at it, but Specs w/ Shadow Ball does a rather nice job handling Metagross especially when paired Scarf Lando-T. Most offensive checks really only need to be able to switch into an offensive STAB move and Metagross' STABs aren't that spammable compared to say Char-X.
That's the real issue with Metagross imo. It has to rely on non-STAB moves more than one would like, and an over-reliance on non-STAB moves makes it that much easier to switch into. Also, I think the rise of Bullet Punch Metagross and Pursuit Metagross make it easier to switch into defensively (the utility those kinds of sets provide outweighs the extra coverage).
So yeah I'm not sure if Metagross should drop or not, but I think the discussion is pretty even really. Gross may be a theoretical monster but I think in practice it's a little more manageable now.
Well i first of all i never said metagross has 3 counters, because it has only one in mega scizor, and if people overhype the hidden power fire set enough i guess mega scizor isnt a "counter". Secondly, megagross was suspected several months ago ,and we all know why it was suspected and it barely escaped, so i didnt need to repeat in detail the traits that make mega gross really good aside from the "oh no it only has one true counter in all of OU* argument which obviously would separate it from something like hyrdeigon who is several ranks below and also has "no counters". last i checked its still oras, so that confirms no new mons have been added. So where did these new checks and counters come from for megagross ? Right ,they were always there. Thirdly, megagross has a coverage move that hits every single one of them. See if u look at mega altlaria its checks include ferrothorn heatran megagross jirachi and scizor. All of these can be bopped on a Ddance 3 attacks set after some chip damage with fire blast EQ and return. That leaves mega venusaur and possibly bulky talon flame as the only counters. Even then mega altaria tends to want to run roost, so that limits its coverage and it still at the end of the day is walled by mega venu. Megagross does have a slightly wider array of things that wall it compared to mega alt and doesn't have a 4 move move combo that beats every single thing for it, but the S rank set listed in the most viable sets thread has the best overall coverage but still comes short of beating some threats. Like i said, then the adaptions came. 24 spdef slowbro avoids 2hko from grass knot. Counter skarm obviously became mandatory cause otherwise u lose to gross, but it has always been a thing before gross was even introduced in oras. Bulky mega scizor becomes more popular even though it was always there to begin with. These adaptions arent obscure like arcanine was for mawile or 3 rocky helmet users on every team for mega kanga but thats when the light bulb clicks and u realize that thats why mega mawile and kanga are banned and while megagross is here still as an S rank that now people want to drop to A+. Being S rank doesnt neccesarily mean that you are TOO good for the metagame, it just means you are among the best mons in the metagame. This is why we dont auto ban everything that is S rank. Like is clefable broken because its S rank? no u can be S rank if you are just among the best at your role, but not neccesarily broken.
Megagross cant be in the same rank as mega scizor , something who shares simialir checks like skarmory and bulky chomp. Then there is keldeo who is also pretty linear and relies on scald burns and relatively weak hidden powers to beat a checks and counter list thats even larger than megagross's. at least megagross can say run ice punch to hit bulky chomp and gliscor and like thunder punch to 2hko skarm on the switch while mega scizor completely sacks momentum without u turn.
The offensive checks you listed are what they are checks, not reliable by any means, switching out is an option for every single mon in the game unless there is a trapping ability in play. So megagross switches out of raikou then raikou doesn't switch in to zen headbutt. prediction goes both ways, and its not reliable. the only valid ones are the ones i listed in the previous posts. megagross dual stabs however are not as spammable as something like zard x because psychic steel is walled by steelSo yea megagross relies on hammer arm/ EQ and other misceallenous coverage to hit the rest until u realize that it either can ohko the targets or outspeed 2hko (in the case of ferro). The only problem is the speed drop leaves megagross vulnerable of course.
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 300-354 (77.9 - 91.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 212-250 (60.2 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Then you realize something similar can be said about mega altaria whose dragon fairy typing is walled by the same things, so it also relies on non stab coverage moves to beat checks and counters. and then u also realize that while charx has better offensive coverage with his stabs than both mega alt and gross but it often gets cut short by SR, spikes, and that nasty flare blitz recoil.
The standard set for gross still leaves u walled by skarmory bulky chomp jirachi slowking victini scizor and a few other things i think in all OU. Which is a point to make , but considering that megagross puts in work against virtually everything else, u have to weigh how much the positives outweigh the negatives. And i think its still an S rank worthy mon, because even if u consider the case that he cannot run all those lure moves in one set, then how are some of the things one sub rank below it who dont even have the luxury of running lure moves for most of their answers (like mega scizor vS bulky chomp) are somehow on the same level? I simply think that megagross is probably the 3rd best mon in ou and that char x and mega alt are stronger S ranks, but no one said the S ranks have to all be equal to each other in prowess, ( i think clefable is the weaksest S rank) and its not like megagross is that far behind.
