Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V4

[DoABarrelRoll]

Max defense Unaware Clefable is not meant to wall everything, only a slew of particular threats. Citing special attackers as mons that threaten it to support dropping it is utter bullshit because walling Special Attackers is not even what max defense Unaware Clefable is supposed to do. Hint: Mega Sableye is not meant to switch into Fairy-types; yet, with your logic, we should drop it because it fails to beat Azumarill / Mega Diancie / Mega Gardevoir.

Ignoring all the rain fuckfest...

The problem with this argument is that fairies affect Mega Sableye to a much smaller scale; either that or a very strong hit, since Sableye is bulkier than Unaware Clef on the special side, and not that much frailier on the physical side. Any decently powerful special hit can 2HKO Clef with little problems.

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Clefable: 203-239 (51.6 - 60.8%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Mega Sableye: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO

 

[Costi]

The real thing I don't understand is why people are speaking about a drop of the strongest mon in the tier lol.

Clefable is S rank and should stay S rank because it's just too good. The magic guard moonblast/twave/softboiled/calm mind set is such a good win condition, a fantastic glue and Clef is a really really splashable mon that by no means we should consider a drop. Look at how reliable it is. Every single time i face a Clef, no matter what happens, I put myself in the "preserve my steel type" logic. And if, for some mistakes, i lose it, the Clefable matchup immediately become harder and harder.

The insane utility of twave is just fantastic on it. That thing is not passive, in no situations, because it can paralyze everything trying to setup in front of it. It can paralyze everything trying to switch into it and it can setup in front of a paralyzed mon because the 30% chance of the full paralysis is just too good.

You can put Clefable on literally every team, from full Stall to Bulky offense and it put in work in literally every single game.

DoABarrelRoll Why the hell, anyway, you keep arguing about unaware Clefable if the set that, among others, let Clefable truly shine is the magic guard set. If thundy is not a nasty plot variant Clefable just use it as setup fodder, basically like against any other electric type bar nasty plot thundurus. Kyube need iron head as a lure move to get a clean ko after Ice Beam. If you give it setup opportunity, and it uses just a single calm mind, neither Zard Y nor MGarde are true answer, cause Clef just use them as fodders. It only needs a calm mind and if you don't have a scizor, a bisharp, a hoopa, or a exca who can get a nice ko, you are basically fucked up.

 

[quagback2qc]

Ignoring all the rain fuckfest...

The problem with this argument is that fairies affect Mega Sableye to a much smaller scale; either that or a very strong hit, since Sableye is bulkier than Unaware Clef on the special side, and not that much frailier on the physical side. Any decently powerful special hit can 2HKO Clef with little problems.

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Clefable: 203-239 (51.6 - 60.8%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Mega Sableye: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO

Please stop, this is getting ridiculous. Trying to gain small victories by providing meaningless calcs that contribute nothing to the overarching discussion is a waste of time, space, and energy.

Fairies do affect Mega Sableye that much.

0 SpA Klefki Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 128-152 (42.1 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

This is by far the weakest fairy type move Mega Sableye will ever have to face. It still gets 2HKO'ed with little prior damage.

Please stop trying to score little moral victories over other users. We don't care how viable special Victini is atm, or how well Heracross and Scizor break down their rain checks. The point is plain and simple: Max Defense Unaware Clefable isn't used to wall special attackers. You just keep saying why it isn't used to do so. Your point, that Max Defense Unaware Clefable isn't bulky enough to take powerful neutral special hits, is something everyone already knows. That's why people don't use it to take on special attackers, which is what Alfalfa has been saying the whole time. It's hard to make this more clear.

 

[MikeDawg]

Yo the clefable thing was a joke. What is even going on here.

irt swampert thing: everyone is always talking about how swampert is the worst thing ever on rain, etc. But I'm p sure that almost every rain team that I have seen at #1 on the ladder this gen has had swampert on it. Haven't been constantly monitoring the ladder 24/7 obviously, but all of the good rain rmts that I've seen have also featured mega swamp. And none of them have had the allegedly neccesary kingdra (and sometimes kabutops). Hm...

I'm not entirely sure where the anti-swampert circle-jerk started, but it isn't wholly true in practice. The bulk, immunity to electric and twave, etc. absolutely makes it a valuable component to modern rain teams.

Hippo shouldn't rise. Gliscor falling a subrank is reasonable. (Y)

 

[Celticpride]

Yo the clefable thing was a joke. What is even going on here.

And the great Clefable discussion comes to a close. Any further posts regarding Clefables placement will be deleted, at least for a little while. Joke nominations in an attempt to derail the thread will not be tolerated in the future.

As a reminder, here's some discussion points to talk about

Discussion slate:
Mega Gardevoir A -> A+
Volcarona A- -> B+
Diggersby B+ -> B
Scolipede B -> B-
Zapdos B -> B-
Thundurus-Therian B- -> C+
Cobalion C+ -> B-
Cresselia C- -> C
Mega Aggron C- -> C

 

[ethanlol]

I think Mega-Gardevoir is a fantastic wallbreaker. I had a difficult time deciding if it should be A or A+. It is very hard to switch into. A nuetral Hyper Voice can OHKO many pokemon on the switchin. Her physical bulk and HP are quite lackluster which makes her prone from attacks like:

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 330-390 (119.1 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 265-312 (95.6 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 570-672 (205.7 - 242.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I think that it definately struggles a bit more vs. offense as she has an average base speed of 100. But due to her excellent typing she is a threat that is capable of switching into used pokes like Garchomp, the Lati Twins and Keldeo.

I think because she is a fairy type she is already good. But adding her wallbreaking capabilities, she can do work against balance and bulky offense and hyper offense. She forces many switchins due to the amount of dragons, darks, fightings in the meta. Any switchins will take decent damage from any of her stabs. Banded Scizor and AoA Mega-Metagross take about 30% I believe. Because of this it should go to A+.

 

[CharizardIsMeh]

Mega Aggron should be C or C+ rank. Just... 230 Defense and an okay 80 Special Defense coupled with Filter makes that even physical and special powerhouses such as LO Terrakion and M-Alakazam cannot OHKO it.
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 164-195 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Superpower vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 187-222 (54.3 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 226-267 (65.6 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
He also has got nice offensive presence thank to its 140 Attack. It's higher than M-Lopunny base Attack, so it's not slouch offensively even without investement.

Its main problem is that it has no recovery, so these treaths cited before can easily 2HKO and that means Mega Aggron can't happily switch into any attack. It needs wish support to be effective too. It has a pitiful Speed and takes a Mega Slot in your team so you can't use Mega Lopunny or Mega Gyarados, for example.

 

[aceguy123]

Discussion slate:
Mega Gardevoir A -> A+ - Disagree: MGard lacks the speed, diversity, and bulk to justify this ranking. I have a hard time giving this mon a go when with almost any prior damage pretty much every priority user except breloom will KO.
Volcarona A- -> B+ - Neutral: I can see this either way, nothing has really made it bad per se but nothing has made it good either except doing well against Hoopa-U.
Diggersby B+ -> B - Agree: This thing has never been B+ material to begin with.
Scolipede B -> B- - Lol Agree 100%: W/o passing it is really not formidable.
Zapdos B -> B- - Disagree: I think it's better than B-, the combo of being a tanky mon that pivots with offensive presence and defog is only really done by this guy and Scizor and Zapdos does it better.
Thundurus-Therian B- -> C+- Agree: The single reason that you use this over Thund-I will almost never be enough.
Cobalion C+ -> B- - Agree: It's been doing a consistent job on the ladder. This is more me being biased against Azelf than being for Cobalion but I think it works about as well as that mon and everyone seems to love Azelf so yea it should be closer in rank.
Cresselia C- -> C - Agree: Way better than that ranking, one of the only mons I've seen that can make trick room work.
Mega Aggron C- -> C - Disagree: Can't see a reason to use it as your mega almost ever. There are so many steel types that might do its job like 10% less effectively but that 10% is never worth it when you're using Feraligatr currently and you could be using Char-X or you're using Chesnaught and could be using MVenu or something.

 

[Alfalfa]

We honestly do not care at all about what Pokemon that are already ranked even do in the metagame; they are already ranked for their capabilities. We want to know whether or not its role in the metagame has decreased in value or are more difficult to utilize then it has previously been with changing metagame trends.

aceguy123 Zapdos is B Rank for being able to check Torn-T and soft-check most Water-types. Its status as a Defogger that does not lose to Bisharp is really much of an XY trend compared to what is is commonly used for. Sure, the set still works, but the demand for Torn-T checks is pretty high and Zapdos is one of the few mons that can reliably deal with it. The real question towards dropping it is whether or not what Zapdos does is enough merit to be in B Rank considering its flaws, mostly getting worn down very easily.

 

[Heatmor]

My first Discussion Slate. Ahem:

Mega Gardevoir A -> A+
I would have to disagree with this. Mega Gardevoir is a fantastic wallbreaker with great typing and ability to break through several dangerous threats, making it very hard to switch into. However, it has a terrible Defense stat, which makes it OHKO'd by many powerful attacks, and if it does survive, it is likely to be dying. Almost every OU Steel checks it, and the discussion of Assault Vest Metagross, a counter to Mega Gardevoir, just demonstrates how exploitable it's low defense is. It isn't very fast, as a Base 100 is decent, but not very good. It's movepool is somewhat diverse, but it suffers from four-moveslot syndrome half the time anyway.

Volcarona A- -> B+
I would have to agree with this statement. It is very hard to stop it from sweeping once it is fully setup, but it requires too much support to function without being pitifully knocked out. It can not switch out, is weak to priority, and relies to sweep when it's counters are taken out. The amount of support the poor Sun Mothra needs is very consuming and may intone an unhealthy strategy on the team.

Diggersby B+ -> B
In my opinion I would disagree; Diggersby is a very underrated Pokemon in my opinion. It has a wide, expansive usable physical movepool and a high, wallbreaking-level of attack, allowing it to run Choice Banded, Choice Scarfed, and Life Orb Sets very well. This isn't to say that it should rise above B+, as it has many flaws, but in my opinion I believe that B+ Rank is good, at least for now.

And for Scolipede, B- Rank is good, if not C+. It is hard-pressed to find good competitive usage now that passing has been severely limited.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

Looking at the recent discussion slates, there appears to be a very negative opinion toward scolipede. I'd have to disagree with this nominations quite heavily. I've used Scolipede on several teams, And it has an exceptional amount of utility against offensive teams. I know this sounds dumb coming from a guy with Scolipede as his avatar, but I have seen scolipede annihilate a lot of offensive teams while not being a complete deadweight against stall due to it's ability to threaten out Staples like Clefable and Slowbro with a supereffective STAB. I understand that scolipede can be easy to wall and hard to fit on a team, but It actually has some diverse coverage options in Superpower, Aqua Tail, Rock Slide, and earthquake. Being able to run Adamant is a huge boon for it, allowing it to ko some bulkier mons found on offense. I'm not even going to give Quickpassing sets a mention. They can be good, but they feel somewhat gimmicky and require a pokemon that is at least somewhat bulky to pass into. I don't think that Scolipede should rise, but it can do good work against offense and can be very hard to stop once certain pokemon, such as Lando-T are removed. Thanks!

 

[Gotham Paladin]

A+ > A

Personally, I think tyranitar should be moved up because of how good I think it is. The pokemon makes some teams play very differently. You have a lati that wants to defog? Pursuit trapped. Also, if you want a certain mon to get weakened for another team member, you can pursuit trap it for some damage for that mon to sweep. Example being pursuit trapping a heatran that is switching out, so Lati can have a field day, or mega scizor can SD up and win. It also has a very good movepool for taking out mons who think they can switch against it, such as ice beam for the chomps and landos. Or fireblast for the scizors who think they can set up on you. Its also a very good sand setter for excadrill, which is one of the things it is best known for. Also has a bunch of viable sets, examples being scarf, chople, or even band. It also lets you check mons like plus 1 zard x. So with all the perks that it has, I feel like it outweighs its negatives, and that it deserves to be moved up.

 

[Mr.Goxel]

A+ > A

Personally, I think tyranitar should be moved up because of how good I think it is. The pokemon makes some teams play very differently. You have a lati that wants to defog? Pursuit trapped. Also, if you want a certain mon to get weakened for another team member, you can pursuit trap it for some damage for that mon to sweep. Example being pursuit trapping a heatran that is switching out, so Lati can have a field day, or mega scizor can SD up and win. It also has a very good movepool for taking out mons who think they can switch against it, such as ice beam for the chomps and landos. Or fireblast for the scizors who think they can set up on you. Its also a very good sand setter for excadrill, which is one of the things it is best known for. Also has a bunch of viable sets, examples being scarf, chople, or even band. It also lets you check mons like plus 1 zard x. So with all the perks that it has, I feel like it outweighs its negatives, and that it deserves to be moved up.

While most of what ur saying is true u forgot to mention what Tyranitar has problems with. Azumarill come to mind first. tyranitar has virtually no way to be this monster that it basically falls short against it and not a lot of things like switching into azumarill. Not to mention so many pokemon are packing fighting type coverage moves that tyranitar struggle with them HARD. For example tornadus-t, Thundurus-i, and weavile all can shred it with their respective coverage moves.

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 588-697 (172.4 - 204.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 442-525 (129.6 - 153.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 316-376 (92.6 - 110.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
btw thats the assault vest torn-t and this is the ttar scarf set. So unfortunately ttar doesnt have what it takes to get into the a+ rank.

 

[Toxzn]

When discussing the Torn-T > S rank argument you have to your self in the opposing player's shoes, sure hurricane might seem sketch but I assure you when Torn-T comes out you're often struggling to find something to switch in that can take a hurricane + a subsequent attack or be straight up crippled by Knock Off. To make matters worse it can just U-Turn, gain hp and give you opponent total momentum and control of a game. It really is a fantastic mon and decent switch ins are stupidly hard to find, most can only take one hit and revenge, but even then its often pushing it, especially with assualt vest sets being as dominant as they are. It's used a fuck ton in competitive play and with good reason. IMO any mon that causes as much offense pressure as Torn-T should be easy to kill, Torn-T is very difficult to kill.

 

[jacob]

I agree with Toxzn hurricane may be a shaky move that you want to be spamming but its utility(knock off, taunt, and u-turn) alongside regen and its solid defenses and blazing speed make up for a 70% accurate move. Its a great blanket check to so many special attackers kinda like hippo is for physical attacks but torn doesn't sap all your momentum it gains you momentum. Life Orb sets are near impossible for balance teams to switch in to. Also most of torns checks are based on its move set which can vary greatly depending on what your team needs. I don't see how Torn isn't S rank the thing brings so much to the table defensively and offensively its a meta defining pokemon in my opinion and something every team should have some form of answer to.

 

[CharizardIsMeh]

A+ > A

Personally, I think tyranitar should be moved up because of how good I think it is. The pokemon makes some teams play very differently. You have a lati that wants to defog? Pursuit trapped. Also, if you want a certain mon to get weakened for another team member, you can pursuit trap it for some damage for that mon to sweep. Example being pursuit trapping a heatran that is switching out, so Lati can have a field day, or mega scizor can SD up and win. It also has a very good movepool for taking out mons who think they can switch against it, such as ice beam for the chomps and landos. Or fireblast for the scizors who think they can set up on you. Its also a very good sand setter for excadrill, which is one of the things it is best known for. Also has a bunch of viable sets, examples being scarf, chople, or even band. It also lets you check mons like plus 1 zard x. So with all the perks that it has, I feel like it outweighs its negatives, and that it deserves to be moved up.

Tyranitar stays in A imo. What really holds it back is a whopping total of 7 weaknesses. Between them, (Mega) Scizor's Bullet Punch (and U-Turn) and Azumarill's Aqua Jet. These are the 2 most common and powerful priorities in OU.
And also every relevant team runs a Fighting-type attack

 

[Gotham Paladin]

While most of what ur saying is true u forgot to mention what Tyranitar has problems with. Azumarill come to mind first. tyranitar has virtually no way to be this monster that it basically falls short against it and not a lot of things like switching into azumarill. Not to mention so many pokemon are packing fighting type coverage moves that tyranitar struggle with them HARD. For example tornadus-t, Thundurus-i, and weavile all can shred it with their respective coverage moves.

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 588-697 (172.4 - 204.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 442-525 (129.6 - 153.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 316-376 (92.6 - 110.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
btw thats the assault vest torn-t and this is the ttar scarf set. So unfortunately ttar doesnt have what it takes to get into the a+ rank.

You have good points, however, t-tar has the chople set to take weavile and torn t's respective fighting moves, and ohko it back with stone edge. While I know it has obvious weaknesses, I think that mons that do carry fighting moves do not have a 100 percent way to knock out a t tar if they dont know the set at the point in the game.

 

[Dr Zeus]

A+ > A

Personally, I think tyranitar should be moved up because of how good I think it is. The pokemon makes some teams play very differently. You have a lati that wants to defog? Pursuit trapped. Also, if you want a certain mon to get weakened for another team member, you can pursuit trap it for some damage for that mon to sweep. Example being pursuit trapping a heatran that is switching out, so Lati can have a field day, or mega scizor can SD up and win. It also has a very good movepool for taking out mons who think they can switch against it, such as ice beam for the chomps and landos. Or fireblast for the scizors who think they can set up on you. Its also a very good sand setter for excadrill, which is one of the things it is best known for. Also has a bunch of viable sets, examples being scarf, chople, or even band. It also lets you check mons like plus 1 zard x. So with all the perks that it has, I feel like it outweighs its negatives, and that it deserves to be moved up.

I totally agree with this. I think the sheer versatility Ttar brings to the table justifies the move up. It has a massive movepool, both physical and special, along with access to rocks and pursuit. It makes a great scarfer, a meh band user, and can twave anything trying to set up or switch in. Plus Excadrill gets to ride a sandstorm. It's a bit held back by poor defensive typing, yes, but most of its checks aren't particularly hard to switch in on. Pair this thing with a Clef or a Venu and you have most of them covered.

I think the number of roles Ttar fills well far outweighs the hurdles it must overcome and justifies an A+ ranking. It's just so adaptable, easily finding a place on balance or offense. And if you're real you can DD sweep.


On another note, I think Talonflame should drop to A. Stall has mostly adapted to the Stallbreaker set (Sableye notably having evolved to beat it), and the SD set rarely does more than revenge kill unless against HO. I've been playing around with the bulk up set but haven't been too impressed by it, and let's face it, band is pretty bad. Still a great mon, and an invaluable asset for HO (both on HO or against it), but I don't think it's keeping up with the rest of A+ in the current metagame.

TL;DR Ttar is my homie and all ya'll motherfuckers better quit running Adamant on your talonflames

 

[Heatmor]

Tyranitar stays in A imo. What really holds it back is a whopping total of 7 weaknesses. Between them, (Mega) Scizor's Bullet Punch (and U-Turn) and Azumarill's Aqua Jet. These are the 2 most common and powerful priorities in OU.
And also every relevant team runs a Fighting-type attack

Every time I see someone saying how much Tyranitar is bad, they bring up this argument. Anyways I completely disagree with you. There are many Pokemon in OU that have weakness to those priority, and although Tyranitar has seven weaknesses, it can raise it's Special Defense by 50%, basically nullifying some of them, such as Grass. It's typing allows it to check many dangerous OU threats like Mega Charizard X/Y, Gengar, Lati@s, and more. A+ is a go in my opinion. It's versatile, good typing, powerful, and bulky.

 

[IronGrahn]

While I have no real opinion on the current discussion slate, I have something to say about Talonflame dropping to A: No.
On paper Talonflame seems bad, but in practice really many teams are weak, no matter which playstyle.
The things that beat T-flame is Sand, MegaMan, rocks and fat water/ground types. Not that hard to fit in on a team, right? But when reality comes around, not all teams has neither one of these (except SR). And they're just fall straight down to T-flame if not played carefully.
With a movepool on Brave Bird, Flare Blitz, Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Roost, Will-O-Wisp and Taunt; Talonflame has the ability to check/counter mayor threats in the metagame. Threats like these are Serperior, M-Pun, Weavile, Bisharp, M-ZardY, (M-)Scizor, M-Alt and Keldeo. With a SD under it's belt even threats like M-ZardX, Clefable(if MG), Manaphy, Megagross, Azumarill, Lati@s and cube. Also the ability to cripple it's checks w/ Will-O. This crippling makes the job even easier for you to switch into Chomp and T-tar with Keldeo or something else.
inb4 anybody argues by saying: "but SR kills!": I know, but 75% of teams nowadays needs a hazard remover either way.
"It can't run all at once": No pokemon can run everything at once. By that logic Mana would be like A- and the same goes with Megagross and many others.
"It needs team support": ALL pokemon in the game needs team support! No matter what tier you enter, you will always find a mon that needs support.​

TL;DR: This is my two cents about T-flame. Stay A+.​

 

[CharizardIsMeh]

While I have no real opinion on the current discussion slate, I have something to say about Talonflame dropping to A: No.
On paper Talonflame seems bad, but in practice really many teams are weak, no matter which playstyle.
The things that beat T-flame is Sand, MegaMan, rocks and fat water/ground types. Not that hard to fit in on a team, right? But when reality comes around, not all teams has neither one of these (except SR). And they're just fall straight down to T-flame if not played carefully.
With a movepool on Brave Bird, Flare Blitz, Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Roost, Will-O-Wisp and Taunt; Talonflame has the ability to check/counter mayor threats in the metagame. Threats like these are Serperior, M-Pun, Weavile, Bisharp, M-ZardY, (M-)Scizor, M-Alt and Keldeo. With a SD under it's belt even threats like M-ZardX, Clefable(if MG), Manaphy, Megagross, Azumarill, Lati@s and cube. Also the ability to cripple it's checks w/ Will-O. This crippling makes the job even easier for you to switch into Chomp and T-tar with Keldeo or something else.
inb4 anybody argues by saying: "but SR kills!": I know, but 75% of teams nowadays needs a hazard remover either way.
"It can't run all at once": No pokemon can run everything at once. By that logic Mana would be like A- and the same goes with Megagross and many others.
"It needs team support": ALL pokemon in the game needs team support! No matter what tier you enter, you will always find a mon that needs support.​

TL;DR: This is my two cents about T-flame. Stay A+.​

I agree with you. People say that it needs Rapid Spin support, but Mega Charizard X also needs rapid spin support and it's awesome (I'll never say it again ok), and Lati@s and Starmie have a nice synergy with it and are so played. With a priorized Brave Bird, it's nearly impossible to revenge kill coupled to a 126 BS in Speed so it outprioritize Azumarill, non Feint Mega Pinsir, Mega Absol, etc.
The only real check to Talonflame is really a Scarf Tyranitar/anything faster with Stone Edge that can take a Brave Bird (and there aren't much, especially for a BOOSTED Brave Bird) and CB/+1 Dragonite that OHKO it with ES after Rocks.
The only real counter is Heatran if you aren't running Natural Gift because Diancie and TTar hate being burned.

So A+ is excellent.

------

Every time I see someone saying how much Tyranitar is bad, they bring up this argument. Anyways I completely disagree with you. There are many Pokemon in OU that have weakness to those priority, and although Tyranitar has seven weaknesses, it can raise it's Special Defense by 50%, basically nullifying some of them, such as Grass. It's typing allows it to check many dangerous OU threats like Mega Charizard X/Y, Gengar, Lati@s, and more. A+ is a go in my opinion. It's versatile, good typing, powerful, and bulky.

Yeah but another problem comes in : its speed. So anything that can take an attack from Scarf TTar and can hit it back with super effective attack is a check, and there are many.
For example : 252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 326-386 (95.6 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO and I know that Tar hits back with Ice Punch but this is Scarf Lando so its outspeeds it anyways. (And Superpower is a garanteed OHKO).

 

[nameless90]

I totally agree with this. I think the sheer versatility Ttar brings to the table justifies the move up. It has a massive movepool, both physical and special, along with access to rocks and pursuit. It makes a great scarfer, a meh band user, and can twave anything trying to set up or switch in. Plus Excadrill gets to ride a sandstorm. It's a bit held back by poor defensive typing, yes, but most of its checks aren't particularly hard to switch in on. Pair this thing with a Clef or a Venu and you have most of them covered.

I think that Tyranitar is fine in A for a couple of reasons:

(1) Having 7 weaknesses means that you can reliably have an answer to this monster without being considered when teambuilding ===> high numerical bulk but, in actual fact, Tyranitar is worn down easily even from pokemons it is supposed to check and 61 base Spe (or 71 after the Mega Evolution) makes it slow even after a Dragon Dance* (the same weak point of Mega Altaria which has fallen from S rank to A+ rank having only 80 base Spe). Being weak to Water, Fighting and Steel priority means that Dragon Dance can't save you if you are not bulky;
(2) Provides sand for 5-8 turns (which is helpul to boosts its SD, to break Focus Sash, to reveal Leftovers, to hinder Synthesis et cetera) but stacks another annoying Fight weakness alongside Excadrill, the premier sand abuser.
(3) Despite having access to good utility moves such as SR and Pursuit, Tyranitar has trouble fitting them into 4 moveslots because in forced to forget high-base-power moves and/or coverage.

In particular, the addition of Fairies is a bad thing for Tyranitar both offensively and defensively: not only Tyranitar sees its Dark STAB halved when hitting a Fairy, but also both Fairies and Steel and Fighting types (to stop the former threats in a circle) hurt it. Tyranitar hasn't become worse by itself: simply, the metagame becames harsh thus making more difficult for this pseudo-legendary to be a prominent threat.
Is there any new set which makes Tyranitar particularly effective? I think no, all sets lose to burns from threats Tyranitar is supposed to handle.

Tyranitar has a huge Atk stat alongside a workable SpA with a huge movepool, good defences and a good ability in Sand Stream (that's why is a A rank threat in my opinion) but low speed and too many weaknesses with unfavorable metagame trends don't make it A+ material.


* That's why the Adamant + Megastone/Life Orb Rock Polish set has its merits.

 

[Alfalfa]

Tyranitar is a good mon, but it is nowhere near as threatening as Azumarill, Bisharp, Keldeo, Latios, Mega Gross, and literally every other mon in A+ Rank, except for Mega Altaria, which is at risk of dropping anyways due to unfavorable metagame trends. Can we not bring up every little piece of information on a mon's natural attributes, that has never been how we rank threats on a VR thread. We rank them based on how prominent their ability to perform their roles are, not based on natural attributes. Natural attributes will contribute to their ability to perform their roles, but they alone do not determine a Pokemon's rank.

 

[Waluigi The Anime]

I think Whimsicott should rise a rank or two. Having access to Prankster and Encore is extremely valuable, especially in a metagame where stat boosting moves are seen in many teams. 3 of the mons in S rank, Mega Charizard X, Clefable, and Manaphy, are checked by Whimsicott and are prevented from setting up do to the fact that Whimsicott can just go in and lock them into a move. The utility it brings to balanced teams is simply amazing. Whimsicott's typing also allows it to check/counter other popular mons in OU, such as Keldeo, Latis, Kingdra, Dragonite, Lopunny, Medicham, and many more. It offers even more utility with access to Stun Spore, Toxic, Knock Off, Leech Seed, and Tailwind. Do to the fact that it's great support to balance and it's ability to shut down setup sweepers, Whimsicott should rise. C rank is way too low for the little guy.

 

[Gary]

Yeah out of all the current noms that are being discussed, I feel very strongly about Torn-T moving to S rank. In my opinion, it's easily as meta defining as Zard-X and Manaphy. It can be slapped on all sorts of teams because of its amazing versatility; being able to function as an incredible balance/stall breaker with Life Orb, or being able to check a wide variety of special attackers in the tier with an Assault Vest. Like many have said before, there are only a few very select viable Pokemon that can "reliably" check Torn-T (mainly why Rotom-W has been gaining such massive popularity lately) because of how its massive movepool can so easily be tailored to fit your team's needs, and depending on its moveset you'll never fully know what can reliably switch into it until you scout its full moveset. Mega Diancie is normally a fantastic check to it, but Iron Tail has been popping up here and there as a way to combat it as well as 2HKOing Clef on the switch. Hoopa-U can sometimes find a chance to fire off Hyperspace Fury's against Torn-T as it only fears U-turn, but unfortunately it's quite a commonly used move. SpD Skarm can't reliably check variants that pack Taunt or Heat Wave, while Heatran and Tyranitar struggle against sets with Fighting coverage. Obviously it can't run all of these sets at once, but just the sheer possibility of it being able to run all these things makes it a huge threat to practically any team archetype, even offense considering how insane its Speed tier is. And unlike most offensive threats, Regenerator allows it to pivot in and out quite consistently to fire off LO Hurricanes or sponge special attacks (if Assault Vest), which is absolutely huge for a Pokemon like Torn-T, as it is constantly giving you so much momentum.

The only real arguments I've seen against Torn's rise is how it is forced to rely on an inaccurate STAB move which can often cost you the match if you happen to miss, which is does quite often. However, Hurricane is such a threatening move on its own that just the sheer possibility of Torn-T landing Hurricane just a few times can really pressure the opponent, and oftentimes will depend heavily on it missing in order to gain momentum, which on its own, should prove just how influential and dangerous Torn-T is, and how despite its accuracy, Hurricane's upsides heavily outweigh the miss chance.

So yeah, Torn-T is 100% S rank in the current meta, and it only gets more obvious the more I play with and against it.