ORAS Tier List V2.0

Colonel M

Not very Cash Money of you
is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
(Approved by Stellar and DHR-107)
(Huge thanks to Celever and Its_A_Random for helping build the tier list, and to Aaron's Aron for helping out with some mechanics pre-release)

Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire In-game Tier List

What is an in-game tier list?

In-game tier lists rank Pokémon on their usefulness and efficientness throughout an in-game playthrough (from the start of the game to the first viewing credits).

What are the tiers?

In this in-game tier list there will be 5 tiers. If there is need for new tiers, though, they will be created. The current tiers are:
S-Rank
A-Rank
B-Rank
C-Rank
D-Rank
E-Rank
Untested

Why is a Pokémon in a certain tier?

A Pokémon's rank is decided by these 6 factors:

Availability - How early is the Pokémon found? Does it require considerable backtracking or HM moves? The earlier you find a Pokémon, the better they are in this category. Pokémon that require considerable backtracking and/or HM moves are generally lower than other Pokémon.

Typing - What is the Pokémon's typing? How good is it in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire? The better a Pokémon's typing for Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, the higher the rank.

Stats - What are the Pokémon's stats? How good are they for efficient in-game runs? The better a Pokémon's stats for in-game runs, the higher they will be ranked. This is probably the most important category, as it can override the rest of the categories if the stats are good enough (e.g Groudon and Kyogre) but can also cripple Pokémon (e.g Luvdisc). Defensive Pokémon are generally ranked lower than offensive Pokémon, as they are less efficient.

Movepool - What moves does the Pokémon get? Pokémon with a wider range of useful moves are generally ranked higher than Pokémon with shallower movesets.

Major Battles - How does the Pokémon fare in major battles, such as Gym Leaders, fights against your rival and criminal team admins/leaders? The better a Pokémon does against these major fights, the higher they are ranked.

Other - Other aspects of a Pokémon. Examples are megas, primal reversions or abilities which can play a small role in a Pokémon's placement. Occasionally a random "other" thing solely dictates a Pokémon's rank (e.g Slakoth is C tier solely because of Truant and its rough start. If it didn't have Truant, it would probably be high or top).

For further tiering guidance, please read post #324.

What Pokémon are being excluded from this tier list?

If a Pokémon is any of the below criteria, they will be excluded from this tier list:
  • They come from an event
  • They cannot be caught until post game
  • They are not available for capture in Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire
Furthermore, Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire introduced the PokéNax Plus. This has a handy feature of letting you find Pokémon at a higher level than the others in that area, Pokémon with their Hidden Ability, or for their first moveslot to have a random egg move instead of what it should be. Excluding the forced Poochyena early on in the game, Pokémon with egg moves will not be tiered. This is because a good egg move, for many Pokémon, will make them a much higher tier than what they are right now. If you talk about Pokémon being a certain rank because of an egg move or Hidden Ability, I will ask one of OI's lovely moderators to delete your post.

Everything else will be ranked, though. Even the worst of the worst, fully-evolved-but-should-really-be-LC shitmons.

The Tier List Itself:

-S-

Abra (Alakazam)

Magikarp

Mudkip

Torchic

-A-

Absol

Groudon

Heracross

Kyogre

Latias (AS)

Latios (OR)

Magnemite

Makuhita

Marill

Mawile

Meditite

Numel


Ralts (Gardevoir)

Shroomish

Treecko

-B-

Abra (No Trade)

Carvanha

Corphish

Electrike

Geodude (Golem)

Lotad (AS)

Machop (Machamp)

Pikachu (Cosplay)

Psyduck

Roselia

Seedot (OR)

Skarmory


Spoink

Staryu

Surskit

Tailow

Tentacool

Trapinch

Tropius

Whismur

Wingull

Wurmple (Beautifly)

Zangoose

Zubat

-C-

Aron

Baltoy

Barboach

Cacnea

Chinchou

Doduo

Geodude (No trade)

Girafarig

Goldeen

Gulpin

Kecleon

Koffing

Machop (No Trade)

Natu

Nosepass

Oddish (Bellossom)

Oddish (Vileplume)

Phanpy

Pikachu (Other)

Poochyena

Rhyhorn

Sandshrew

Seviper

Shuppet

Slakoth

Slugma

Snorunt (Glalie)

Spheal

Swablu

Torkoal

Voltorb

Vulpix

Wurmple (Dustox)

Zigzagoon

-D-

Anorith

Bagon

Castform

Chimecho

Clamperl (Gorebyss)

Clamperl (Huntail)

Duskull

Feebas

Grimer

Horsea

Illumise

Jigglypuff

Lileep

Lunatone (AS)

Minun

Nincada (Ninjask)

Nincada (Shedinja)

Plusle

Relicanth

Sableye

Solrock (OR)

Volbeat

Wailmer

-E-

Clamperl (No trade)

Corsola

Luvdisc

Ralts (Gallade)

Regice

Regirock

Registeel

Skitty

Snorunt (Froslass)

Spinda

Wobbuffet



When starting a new discussion over a Pokémon placement, please use this formatting (not necessary, though):


(These aren't the official writeups, it just gives some structure to your nominations).

And finally, a couple of final guidelines to follow:
  • Unlike with Viabilitiy Rankings, we DO NOT base a Pokémon's ranking by comparing it with other Pokémon.
  • Try not to factor leaving Exp. Share on when nominating. This is because the increase in growth over time means you could easily out-level other opponents by at least 10 levels later in the game, and of course Pokémon are going to do a better job against something when they are that much higher. This causes a bias that means everything gets tiered higher, and I want a more accurate reflection on its performance. You could try to extrapolate though.
  • Super Training and Pokémon Amie are inefficient, and will not be considered.
  • Battle items (X Attack, X Defense, etc.) ARE allowed and may be considered when tiering.
I have said these rules elsewhere in the OP, but I will reiterate them here as they are very important:
  • DexNav Pokémon do not count. Egg moves, Hidden Abilities and unnaturally high levels are all ignored in this tier list. The exception to this rule is the forced Poochyena near the start of the game, as it is forced, and the fang is not random. If you chose Mudkip, Poochyena will have Fire Fang, if you chose Treecko, Poochyena will have Thunder Fang, and if you chose Torchic, Poochyena will have Ice Fang. This even takes the randomness out of this encounter.
  • Only Pokémon native to the Hoenn region will be considered.
And... Well, that's about everything! Enjoy this thread, and follow the rules! ^_^

Thank you, Lucchini, for creating a compendium of useful info pertaining to ORAS here.
 
Last edited:
Let´s get this done before the new game gets announced and have much fun new leader :)

Just some comments on the copy paste in Blue:

And finally, a couple of final guidelines to follow:
  • Unlike with Viabilitiy Rankings, we DO NOT base a Pokémon's ranking by comparing it with other Pokémon. Ralts (Gardevoir) is not Bottom Tier because Abra (Alakazam) does its job better -- in fact, Ralts (Gardevoir) is ranked in S-Rank with Abra (Alakazam)! Pokémon are ranked based off of their OWN merit, not how the shape up compared to the rest of the Pokémon. Gardevoir is not in S anymore. Maybe we don´t need an example for this anyway, cause it´s made quite clear.

  • Try not to factor leaving Exp. Share on when nominating. This is because the increase in growth over time means you could easily out-level other opponents by at least 10 levels later in the game, and of course Pokémon are going to do a better job against something when they are that much higher. This causes a bias that means everything gets tiered higher, and I want a more accurate reflection on its performance. You could try to extrapolate though.

  • Super Training and Pokémon Amie are inefficient, and will not be considered.

  • We will assume that all Pokémon have a 100% encounter rate thanks to the new feature on the DexNav for now. As I play through the game I will make a spreadsheet of all trainers and their Pokémon, which will give us a clear picture of where this new mechanic will be handy. This might be left from early experiences, but in fact you have to capture a Pokemon to access the search function. A 5% or lower rate does still make an encounter random luck in fast game play. We might start to accept such delays without punishment as some users also made good points for other detours. Let´s just make sure we are on the same level, when we speak about acceptable time sinks (an approximate amount of negligible delay time would be good).

  • Battle items (X Attack, X Defense, etc.) ARE allowed and may be considered when tiering.
I have said these rules elsewhere in the OP, but I will reiterate them here as they are very important:
  • DexNav Pokémon do not count. Egg moves, Hidden Abilities and unnaturally high levels are all ignored in this tier list. The exception to this rule is the forced Poochyena near the start of the game, as it is forced, and the fang is not random. If you chose Mudkip, Poochyena will have Fire Fang, if you chose Treecko, Poochyena will have Thunder Fang, and if you chose Torchic, Poochyena will have Ice Fang. This even takes the randomness out of this encounter.

  • Only Pokémon native to the Hoenn region will be considered.
And... Well, that's about everything! Enjoy this thread, and follow the rules! ^_^

Thank you, Lucchini, for creating a compendium of useful info pertaining to ORAS here.
 

Codraroll

Cod Mod
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
It seems like Poochyena (Other) is in C, but Poohcyena (Not Other) is not to be found anywhere. Either add Fangs Poochyena to the "Untested" list, or remove the (Other) from Poochyena's entry.
 

Its_A_Random

A distant memory
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
To be fair this is pretty much a c/p from Celever's OP so if you give Colonel M some time, all the issues will most likely be fixed once he actually sorts through the OP.

And Codraroll it is meant to just be plain old Poochyena since we merged Fang and no Fang Pooch together. Celever simply never removed the (Other) for whatever reason.
 

Colonel M

Not very Cash Money of you
is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
Yeah Ill be fixing some of the stuff when Im done with worK. Poochyena will just be Poochyena btw.
 
Last edited:
Can we start commenting on ranks or do you need some time to catch-up?

This one on Spoink got lost in the shuffle on the old thread:

Spoink B --> C
I used Grumpig in Emerald once, it's basically a slightly bulky Psychic type which synergized great with the Calm Mind TM to set up with. Spoink has higher stats than Kirlia nearly all around, so it was "the Psychic pokemon for lazy people" who didn't like grinding with deadweight until Gardevoir.

But that being said, times have changed and Spoink got nothing in return, while Gardevoir and Alakazam both have tons more toys to play with (not that we directly compare pokemon). In fact, Grumpig got WORSE due to it's best stabs being pushed further out to level 52 Psychic (44 for Spoink's Psychic, 42 for Grumpig's Psyshock, 38 for Spoink's Psyshock. This is in comparison to Grumpig's original Psychic at level 37. The TM's for these are endgame).

It can still work, but losing the "grab and go" functionality with the movepool level inflation was its one claim over Alakazam or Gardevoir. Now you've got to put in effort just to get the old RSE Grumpig back with zero new toys in Gen 6.

Spoink for C-tier. That won't do pig, that won't do.
 
I was very pleased with Lileep. You get it just before Norman and having a Rock type for him is very handy. As soon as you get it you have a moveset of Giga Drain, Ancient Power and Brine for decent type coverage. Lileep has an amazing typing in this game. It fares well against all the gyms and Team Aqua (Team Magma maybe not). I rarely got hit by a super effective attack. It comes to a dead stop at the Elite 4 however though I feel the great gym performance earns a C.
 

Colonel M

Not very Cash Money of you
is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
Spoink for C seems pretty reasonable. I have no objections. I'll wait just in case.

I want to take this time again, though, to bring up Surskit and Beautifly being too high. I think them being in B tier is downright horrible and overstating them. I'm not saying they're godawful but let's be realistic for a couple of minutes on this, shall we?

Beautifly and Surskit suffer from really severe periods of up-and-down. For Beautifly and Surskit they both contribute chip damage against Roxanne and that's about it. They're also terrible against Wattson and Winona. They trade Surskit's advantage for Flannery (if we can even call it that) for Beautifly's advantage against Brawly. Both do decent against Tate and Liza and at least they both can Quiver Dance against Wallace I guess? Even though Luvdisc Sweet Kiss can make that one a headache.

My problem with these two being in B is that they're reliant on multiple Quiver Dances against a plethora of enemies to really get anywhere. Pokemon within this tier may require "some" setup but they also have really strong periods in the game (Kadabra in field fights, Golem against many gyms, cosplay Pikachu has a lot of versatility). I mean I'm open to hearing arguments to keep these two in B but honestly - I have to ask why they're there. Before you ask - I'm aware Masquerain has Bug Buzz upon evolution as well as Quiver Dance; however, it still has rocky as hell periods within the game as well.
 
Last edited:
Spoink for C seems pretty reasonable. I have no objections. I'll wait just in case.

I want to take this time again, though, to bring up Surskit and Beautifly being too high. I think them being in B tier is downright horrible and overstating them. I'm not saying they're godawful but let's be realistic for a couple of minutes on this, shall we?

Beautifly and Surskit suffer from really severe periods of up-and-down. For Beautifly and Surskit they both contribute chip damage against Roxanne and that's about it. They're also terrible against Wattson and Winona. They trade Surskit's advantage for Flannery (if we can even call it that) for Beautifly's advantage against Brawly. Both do decent against Tate and Liza and at least they both can Quiver Dance against Wallace I guess? Even though Luvdisc Sweet Kiss can make that one a headache.

My problem with these two being in C is that they're reliant on multiple Quiver Dances against a plethora of enemies to really get anywhere. Pokemon within this tier may require "some" setup but they also have really strong periods in the game (Kadabra in field fights, Golem against many gyms, cosplay Pikachu has a lot of versatility). I mean I'm open to hearing arguments to keep these two in C but honestly - I have to ask why they're there. Before you ask - I'm aware Masquerain has Bug Buzz upon evolution as well as Quiver Dance; however, it still has rocky as hell periods within the game as well.
Uh, if Beautifly and Surskit are currently in B... how can we have arguments with keeping them in C? I think you meant you want to see them drop to C rather than from it, but I'm not quite sure. (I think they're better than D at least)
 
Beautifly needs to drop to C for sure. It's really got not much going for it until level 40's Quiver dance, even if that 100 Special Attack is pretty nice at level 10.

Surskit and evolution could be B? I guess? If I squint really hard? Intimidate can make it easier to set-up on a lot of things and it at least has all the toys it could want upon evolution at 22. Plus I like it's TM support much better than Beautifly. But I still don't really see these bonuses worth B-tier status. Having to always always ALWAYS set-up to accomplish anything seems like more trouble than it's worth.

I would be more passionate if this was Butterfree or Lilligant who have the same gimmick but can also put the enemy to sleep first, but I find these guys need to heal at some point during set-up which means more lost turns. And this is in comparison to the rest of B-tier that will all start punching holes in the enemy from the get-go (or have much better support/status options).
 
What is Psyduck even doing in B tier? Seems like an unspectacular water with late availability only notable for its Calm Mind access (with which it doesn't really achieve all that much).
 

Colonel M

Not very Cash Money of you
is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
Yeah Im in agreement with Psyduck in C. Doesnt really accomplish too much in comparison to other Water types.
 
I do think Beautifly's early-to-midgame and Masquerain's post-tutor prowess make them too good for C tier where you're planning to move them. Because B/C is that line where you kinda consider using the Bs, while the Cs are mostly Pokemon you wouldn't touch unless you wanted to face all the problems their usage brings, and these two bugs seem clearly to be above that line with the rest of the Bs.

Have there been any other experiences with Slaking yet? It's hightime Slakoth moved up (not sure where; B at the very least). Out of the current Cs, he's the only one I'd feature in all kinds of in-game runs with little hesitation.
 

Colonel M

Not very Cash Money of you
is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
I do think Beautifly's early-to-midgame and Masquerain's post-tutor prowess make them too good for C tier where you're planning to move them. Because B/C is that line where you kinda consider using the Bs, while the Cs are mostly Pokemon you wouldn't touch unless you wanted to face all the problems their usage brings, and these two bugs seem clearly to be above that line with the rest of the Bs.
I wouldn't necessarily state that since there are some Pokemon in C Tier that actually have periods of use (Zigzagoon, Poochyena, Geodude, Machop, Dustox) while there are others in here that are worthy of being powerful if trained a little (Swablu, Snorunt, Spheal, Vulplix, Shuppet). Some are in C just because they're so late to the party and they need a bit more help to getting to good standards. Even Beautifly and Masquerain need some help throughout the game getting there since Surksit's period as Surskit is pretty garbo and then lolWurmple/Silcoon to a mediocre midgame after about... Brawly? I guess? I mean I dropped Spoink and I actually could draw a lot of comparisons to it with Kadabra - a Pokemon that actually is pretty comparable to Spoink. I'm even thinking a lot about dropping Kadabra down to C because, honestly, it is just "okay" throughout the game like Spoink with a power spike here and there. Even the earlier Psychic doesn't really mean too much when Kadabra will have Psychic when Tate / Liza are relevant and then Team Aqua / Magma show up. And in some cases Psyshock is actually better against Wallace with some Pokemon (Milotic in particular). Though Thick Fat is superior, Own Tempo blocks Luvdisc from setting up Sweet Kiss as well.

Even some of those in D are kind of worthy of looking at C at least (Horsea, Feebas, Sableye for examples).

I'm just saying the tier separations mean a lot more than just "You REALLY should use it (S), you should use it (A), highly recommend using it (B), recommend using it (C), don't necessarily recommend using it (D), and don't use it (E)". Remember that some Pokemon that join late also drift within the lower tiers but they're still pretty powerful. In fact some like Pinsir and Heracross join really late and are high considering their availability kind of restricts their dominance in the game a bit (not saying they suck either - but just as examples).

I'm probably going to go over S / A / B in a day or two since they could use a slight re-organizing.
 

Colonel M

Not very Cash Money of you
is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
Okay so I am going to break down each and every individual Pokemon in S / A atm. Maybe some in B.

Alakazam - Considering that this Pokemon has access to its Mega and its traded evolution (in this case), I don't think there's much to change. Even with only Psybeam until 30s it hits like a nuke and usually can withstand a hit. I feel I can only really penalize it in two ways - rough beginning (Abra) and not really having a gym advantage (Psychic is, honestly, mediocre-to-awful in most Gym / E4 setups). I am willing to leave discussion open to dropping it to A; however, I think that the majority would agree that it fits comfortable in S.

Lati@s - Provides a lot of heated discussion from people (including myself) based on how it is ranked. This is one of those that I feel teeter between A and S.

It's S:

- With no real training involved and comes at roughly the same level as your party
- Comes with at least some usable STAB moves (with PP / minor power cost)
- Massive TM / HM options (Charge Beam, Calm Mind, Psychic, Grass Knot, Surf, lolFly)
- Access to a pretty powerful Mega Evolution

It's A:

- Considering that Psychic and Dragon have no real gym prevalence. Even in the Elite 4 it is mediocre.
- It's STAB moves suffer from PP / power issues.
- Psychic doesn't even appear until about the Elite 4 (via TM since Psychic is Level 51).
- Dragon Pulse is even later; almost post-game, about Level 56.
- Kind of relies on Calm Mind strategies but we can't really knock that one too much.
- Has a lot of weakness issues considering even scrubbier Pokemon like Mightyena is stronger in this game than in comparison to RSE (STAB Crunch physical and earlier). This one is more or less vs Team Magma / Aqua.

I think in the end, just barely, it reaches S. This is hard; however, a lot of its shortcomings are patched when they need to be. It's good when it arrives and having a free Mega Evolution (per-se) isn't bad at all. You do have to game against some instances (prevent confusion from Wallace and bide time vs Light Screen on Glacia).

Torchic - I think the majority will lean this is S and it is hard to really disagree. Though a slightly shakier earlygame, its midgame is huge thanks to its typing. Winona and Wallace give some headache as well as Tate / Liza; however, it completely mops the Elite 4 without too much issue (just Phoebe honestly - you could probably even get away against Drake) and having a Mega is solid. Though it has moments of eh, so do many Pokemon in S.

Mudkip - A bit stronger earlygame I feel than Torchic and a pretty strong midgame. Lategame is so-so but having access to STAB Earthquake, Surf, or Waterfall helps. You can tutor for Hammer Arm and you can grab Rock Slide for some help. Ice Beam would be great, but honestly Ice Beam is a huge detour. It is a bit on the slower end, though. I think for the most part it's pretty close to S, but very debatable for A.

Magikarp - Though weaker in earlygame, Heart Scale Thrash does a fuckton of damage and the typing is perfect vs Flannery. Though so-so against Norman it can help out with Intimidate. The biggest issue is its Mega and a crucial TM IMO, Taunt, require a detour as well. I think in the end Taunt is a lot shorter to grab than Ice Beam, though, I could see that wanting Taunt is an opportunity cost. With it, though, it easily sets up on EVERY Pokemon in the Elite 4 and Wallace. Mold Breaker bypassing Steven's Sturdy mons is also a godsend. All-around powerhouse with a little investment - S.

Marill - Marill is pretty strong at least. STAB Aqua Tail and Play Rough at low levels is obnoxious. It is a bit slower than what I consider optimal - which means it really begs for some X Speeds whereas the others may have something like an X Speed or X Defend of sorts here and there. Upon further evaluation, I would like to propose Marill to go to A. It's good, but I think it is just a bit too slow for S. Even Swampert is at least a more acceptable Speed with its Mega involved.

=====

Groudon / Kyogre - We discussed it being S many times, but I think I might ultimately keep it to A unless we involve how earth-shattering they are at drowning the Elite 4 in sheer power (geddit?). I am more than willing to shove to S with a little convincing and reasoning.

Treecko - Treecko has been the one that everyone really wants A barring a few people. After testing Treecko I am a little more inclined to agreeing to keeping it in A, though I would like to point out that it is pretty competitive enough in ORAS to go toe-to-toe with the S Rank boys. The Speed and access to Giga Drain is great, but sometimes the frailty and just being a Grass-type flat out sucks. IGN's statement of "too much water" should probably be replaced with "too much everything Grass is weak against for the most part". Also my Grovyle was outsped by Sharpedo once. It was hilarious. It even died in one hit via Ice Fang too. XD

Absol - On second though, Absol in B is probably more acceptable. Absol does have some use against Tate / Liza and easily goes through Phoebe - its Mega is a godsend since its ability acts like a psuedo-Taunt. That being said, it is a bit more on the frail side and it can be a little bit harder to set up Mega Absol in some situations. With that said, I am not opposed to keeping it in A with solid evidence.

Carvanha - Frail, but Sharpedo does act okay in some fights and its outside utility is pretty powerful. If we completely ignore its boosted Surf, I think B is a bit more welcome. Still, I think with the Surf boost it is a huge efficiency saver and, at times, Sharpedo actually can come in handy with some important fights and contribute here and there. Just don't expect it to survive more than 2 hits ever.

Corphish - Corphish, on the other hand, looks more obvious to be in B. Corphish is just really slow. It's strong, but the Speed is a detriment with its apparent lack of durability too. Though in terms of taking a hit it beats Sharpedo any day. Maybe if it had Dragon Dance going for it...

Pinsir / Heracross - These two, honestly, are very late. Almost so late they should be B. What at least helps them both is that Bug is shockingly strong lategame. Mega Heracross is slower; however, it is more forgiving since it has Pin Missile and Bullet Seed - both which are more accurate than Megahorn (and available a little earlier too). If only it got Rock Blast. Arm Thrust is also an alternative until you get Close Combat.

Pinsir relies more on its Mega, but it hits so hard that you almost wonder if it's even a con. You could still play just fine with STAB X-Scissor and STAB Aerilate Strength. It is a bit weaker in terms of Pinsir vs Hera, but it is also really obnoxious when played properly (just wait on some of the Mega Evolving if you can vs Glacia for example).

I think Heracross is a bit more in the solid A and Pinsir just teeters between A and B. That might be contradictory to what I said earlier, but you cannot deny that even a +2 Strength from Mega Pinsir isn't going to tear shit apart. I might move Pinsir up if no one objects.

Electrike - A little better in some ways than in RSE, Mega Manectric can be a real threat. The only problem is Volt Switch almost forces a switch and Electrike doesn't really learn a special Electric-type move until Discharge (29 / 30). There is Charge Beam at least, which does help. One thing is Lightningrod is pretty decent against Wattson - though STAB Magnet Bomb from Magneton hurts and Rollout from Voltorb will eventually get to you. Still - completely cockblocks and sort of sets up against Wattson's Magnemite. The Tackle is the biggest threat.

Later in the game Electrike is cool. Gets Overheat as an option, though most Grass-types at this point are sheltered in the rain. This makes Manectric nifty in the Elite 4 against Glacia if you opt for Flamethrower, though. It does some good things and it's strong. Even outside of Mega Manectric certainly isn't bad.

It's probably the most solid A in here.

Mawile - Mawile has two-three cons. Four if you include the Speed which is probably the biggest one. It requires a detour, it requires some grinding, and it does require a couple Heart Scales.

Outside of that, Mawile is really good. Fairy / Steel is absolutely solid. Intimidate is just icing on the cake when using Mawile in certain fights. It completely craps on most of Team Aqua and only fears Numel / Camerupt in Team Magma. No real gym leader barring Flannery and Wattson per se really threatens it. I mean Wallace sort of does but at that point you're going to town with Mega Mawile.

Yeah. Mega Mawile is damn good. It does have some opportunity costs though, so I think with those involved it's a pretty solid A. If it wasn't blocked so early it would be S.

Makuhita - Though slow, one cannot deny Makuhita is very durable and pretty strong. Early access to STAB Force Palm (Level 13), Knock Off at Level 19, and Rock Tomb via TM really rounds out Makuhita very well. Bulk Up is an incredible TM in certain situations, and both Guts and Thick Fat are great abilities. Its evolution doesn't even come at a bad time either. The biggest drawbacks are the fluctuating experience and the really slow Speed. You could also chalk not having a real Fighting-type move lategame as one too since Brick Break is pretty mediocre, Force Palm relies on chance for paralysis, and Close Combat is all the way at Level 46. I would use Makuhita over Machop. Pretty solid for A, arguable B.

Ralts (Gardevoir) - Discussed 9,001 times, A. No lower. Likely no higher.

Magnemite - This one is kind of hard. Best time to find it is through Hordes or right after beating Norman. It's not too bad. A lot of the Electric-type attacks it has is similar to Electrike. You do grab some STAB Steel-type moves, though, with the more notable ones Mirror Shot at Level 23 and Flash Cannon as Magneton at Level 33. Magnezone is also completely optional - trading Speed for more power and defenses. The biggest difference between Manectric and Magneton is that Discharge for Magneton is super late (43) unless you opt for the inaccurate-but-powerful Zap Cannon. The grinding is eh, though. I think it's okay in A, but very debatable for B.

Shroomish - Shroomish is odd. It starts as a Grass-type, but molds itself into a Fighting-type instead as Breloom with some Grass-type attacks. Shroomish is pretty good. Mega Drain is a big help against Roxanne and being more defensive helps it against Nosepass. Then it sort of goes eh for a while until Breloom hits. Breloom has access to a couple Fighting-type moves early on. Mach Punch upon evolution is helpful, but Power-up Punch accomplishes better things (and usually the priority is so-so barring Carvanha / Sharpedo and maybe Absol). Bulk Up helps a lot and allows Breloom to possibly fuck up Norman. Low Sweep is also really good for a TM this early. It does suffer awkwardness though. Seed Bomb probably won't be around until the Elite 4. It barely has any use there except against Claydol. For Fighting-type moves it is stuck with Sky Uppercut - inaccurate and not really that strong in comparison to STAB Close Combat. Still, Sky Uppercut is pretty competitive for a Fighting-type move even in-game. The major drawback is even that move is pretty late - Level 39.

With that said, Breloom is pretty strong. It is a contender for A. It is arguably near B, though.

Zangoose - One of the strongest Normal-types in the game, Zangoose has access to a lot of options. The problem is that it really has no upper hand in gyms (in return for no downfalls) and it is a little more limited in the game of TMs without detours (Return and somewhat Taunt). It's kind of frail too. I think in second thought it is closer to B, but it can hold up to being A.

Meditite - Meditite is the last one. I left this one last because I haven't thoroughly tested Meditite and I'm not sure if anyone really has.

- It has access to Elemental punches via Move Tutor. These help Medicham in a couple situations (Claydol, Froslass, Salamence).
- Meditite learns HJK when it is captured (>28).
- Zen Headbutt is also accessed via Move Tutor to help Medicham bypass some obstacles (Poison-types in particular).
- Mega Evolution is very drool-worthy.

On paper, Meditite sounds really close to S. Though frail Meditite and (Mega) Medicham hit really damn hard and STAB HJK should score a lot of OHKOes. Mega Medicham easily cruises through Sydney and some of Steven while having options to go around Glacia and Drake. The practice, more or less, is never using it. It's really late though too.

For now, I rule it A based on theorymon. If anyone has used Meditite please speak up. Using Medicham near the E4 doesn't count either.

=====

The only tier changes I see thus far are as follows:

- Marill to A
- Zangoose to B
- Corphish to B
- Carvanha as maybe B if we exclude its Surf factor
- Pinsir / Shroomish as maybe Bs
- Groudon / Kyogre as maybe Ss

I have to look at Numel later. I've heard it both A and B. If anyone wants to run down B and C feel free to do so.
 
Post under construction (to make it available on the go :)



Abra (No Trade)

Lacking the sheer power of its evolution it will have problems to impress in major battles but with a good movepool it can manage the usual route trainers just fine.

The typing and frailty are its major cons.




Geodude (Golem)

This should be a rock solid performer from the point you get it.

Sturdy and Rock Polish make setting up a decent possibility but at the same time depending on a boost of speed lowers the value when it comes to clearing route trainers.

Its gym performances are very good apart from Sootopolis and even against the E4 it can majorly contribute if you can set up.


Apart from the route fights this does sound a lot like A.




Lotad (AS)

It has a great typing but aweful stats for the first half of your journey - to a degree where catching it on route 114 can be beneficial.

It does not excel against a lot of gyms until the late game but as soon as you get the WaterStone it can be a powerful Swift Swim Sweeper.

The E4 performance is a bit shaky. The lack of Giga Drain might give you trouble against the bulkier foes and detours to get IceBeam and a powerful grass STAB will be necessary to improve its movepool.

It is good whenever it hits for supereffective damage but not so much otherwise.




Machop (Machamp)




Pikachu (Cosplay)





Pinsir

Bug is quite a neutral typing for most parts of the endgame, which differentiates Pinsir from the fan-favourite Heracross (no 4*flying weakness, no psychic weakness).

By Mega evolving you can unleash a huge offensive boost but this comes with worse defensive typing in most matches so timing might be crucial. The movepool is very precise for what you need to nuke through the endgame.

Being a slow learner there will be a hard time when you try to catch up with your team/enemies teams thus being outspeed in some important fights might necessitate the use of X speed.





Psyduck

The odd duck that can contribute whenever the opponent is Calm Mind bait or just weak to water.

It does need the setup very often as it is weak without. Also requires some detours to improve the bad natural moveset.

Uniqueness comes from the combination of being water type and having a good setup move.




Roselia

Does work for the team and has some nice grass support options to offer but cannot stand up against the powerful attacks in major battles (thanks to abymyssal defense and just the wrong typing)

if you keep it up with your team, it can make an impact in the lategame but will fall behind against the E4 again.




Seedot (OR)

The little hazelnut has many difficult periods to master, where your team needs to drag it through.

It even lacks most of grass types utility, so it really requires you to drag it on.

The typing is wonderful for the endgame and as a Chlorophyll sweeper it can leave a very good impression from Mossdeep onwards.



Skarmory

Being very defensive is the first thing to notice about this bird, yet Swords Dance and Agility make it a selfsufficient sweeper when its needed and possible.

Sturdy might help in some fights to buy some time, but you will have problems to find good TM additions to its offensive movepool.

Relying a lot on setup to make an offensive impact lowers the value against the usual route trainer, which can be a problem when you consider the slow learning curve.

The typing is very good against many gym trainers after Lavaridge and even more so against the E4 where it can sweep every member including Steven after a maximum of 4 turns of setup.



Spoink

The lower speed compared to the Abra line is compensated by higher bulk which benefits from Thick Fat ability.
Psychic type does not grant many beneficial matchups, but it does have access to useful coverage options to hit a wide variety of Pokemon for supereffective damage.
It will often 2HKO only in case it does so and fail to do that otherwise.



Staryu

late addition to team, with a detour



Surskit



Taillow

A fast and powerful attacker in case you manage to keep Guts activated.

Its STAB attacks will then be powerful enough to OHKO many opponents, which is necessary because it lacks bulk.

Very bulky opponents are difficult to deal with and may often result in a dead bird, that needs to be revived and restatused for maximum effectiveness.


Tentacool



Torkoal

while very good on the defense the speed is absolutely atrocious, forcing you to always take some hits to defeat an opponent

it does a good job at supporting your team and switching in whenever you need to heal someone




Trapinch



Tropius

A decent utility Pokemon that might be used for its unmatched set of HM compatibility.

The bulk is nice but also very necessary in many fights, because it lacks the power to even OHKO most fully evolved Pokemon that are weak to its STAB moves.

This severly limits its usefullness in battle.




Whismur

A reliable but slow attacker with very good movepool.

The low stats of the first evolution stages make it struggle to keep up with your team until Exploud can show its full potential, but afterwards it will leave an impact in many fights.

The lack of natural setup moves, makes X-item usage mandatory to sweep through major opponents, but clearing routes does not require support.




Wurmple (Beautifly)

Because of typing and quite small movepool it does suffer during many periods until it gets one of the best setup moves in late game.

Setting up in front of special attackers almost always guarantees a sweep, but such opportunities are quite rare.




Zubat

Coming at a time where is typing is very useful, it can


possible tier shifts:

Pinsir B>A

Seedot B>C

Tropius B>C

Beautifly, Masquerain B>C
 
Last edited:
I have played through ORAS a couple of times, and I definitely think that taillow should be A rank. It's fast, has great stabs of normal and flying, and evolves relatively early on. Also, guts gives it the ability to hit really hard if you don't mind the residual damage. Maybe I just get good taillows (as far as nature/IVs go), but I really think it should be A rank.

Also I'm on the wire about treecko. In my opinion he's an S, at least in Alpha Sapphire. His great speed and the fact he can mega help a lot, as does his good physical move pool. Unfortunately his special move pool is rough, but he does handle team Aqua and all of the water pokemon quite well none the less. He's especially useful late game. In the original games he's definitely an S (with the higher surfing encounter rate), but I think that he should, at the very least, be considered for S in ORAS.
 
I have played through ORAS a couple of times, and I definitely think that taillow should be A rank. It's fast, has great stabs of normal and flying, and evolves relatively early on. Also, guts gives it the ability to hit really hard if you don't mind the residual damage. Maybe I just get good taillows (as far as nature/IVs go), but I really think it should be A rank.

Also I'm on the wire about treecko. In my opinion he's an S, at least in Alpha Sapphire. His great speed and the fact he can mega help a lot, as does his good physical move pool. Unfortunately his special move pool is rough, but he does handle team Aqua and all of the water pokemon quite well none the less. He's especially useful late game. In the original games he's definitely an S (with the higher surfing encounter rate), but I think that he should, at the very least, be considered for S in ORAS.
Treecko has been looked at time and time again, and found lacking. Yes, it can mega evolve, but so can Blaziken and Swampert along with a fair host of other Pokemon. It's also funny that you should mention the Water-types in the game, because most of the ones encountered via Surfing are neutral to Grass. But its biggest drawback has been that slow period just after it evolves into Grovyle - Wattson can generally shrug off most of what it tries and sending it out against Flannery is just asking to be roasted. Norman's Slaking can take anything it throws at them and beat it into next Tuesday. Its performance against Winona isn't exactly inspiring either, Mega or not...

Taillow has also been discussed a few times, and generally agreed it's just not good enough for A. If we were to factor in Brave Bird or Boomburst, (both egg moves) then there might be a case, but as we don't...
 
Treecko has been looked at time and time again, and found lacking. Yes, it can mega evolve, but so can Blaziken and Swampert along with a fair host of other Pokemon. It's also funny that you should mention the Water-types in the game, because most of the ones encountered via Surfing are neutral to Grass. But its biggest drawback has been that slow period just after it evolves into Grovyle - Wattson can generally shrug off most of what it tries and sending it out against Flannery is just asking to be roasted. Norman's Slaking can take anything it throws at them and beat it into next Tuesday. Its performance against Winona isn't exactly inspiring either, Mega or not...

Taillow has also been discussed a few times, and generally agreed it's just not good enough for A. If we were to factor in Brave Bird or Boomburst, (both egg moves) then there might be a case, but as we don't...
Ok. Well they work great for me, so I was just inputting my opinion. But if everyone else agrees to keep them where they are that's fine.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top