I COULD BE BORED!
I touched on Treecko previously on why it is a rocky assumption for S:Ok. Well they work great for me, so I was just inputting my opinion. But if everyone else agrees to keep them where they are that's fine.
Treecko - Treecko has been the one that everyone really wants A barring a few people. After testing Treecko I am a little more inclined to agreeing to keeping it in A, though I would like to point out that it is pretty competitive enough in ORAS to go toe-to-toe with the S Rank boys. The Speed and access to Giga Drain is great, but sometimes the frailty and just being a Grass-type flat out sucks. IGN's statement of "too much water" should probably be replaced with "too much everything Grass is weak against for the most part". Also my Grovyle was outsped by Sharpedo once. It was hilarious. It even died in one hit via Ice Fang too. XD
Basically you have the first gym, some of the third gym, seventh, and eighth gym. Then in the E4 it is... well Drake and a Pokemon here and there.
It is good - much better than ye olden days, but it shows moments of weakness a lot and, even in AS, it can really blow because the Grimers can usually take a Dig / Earthquake and hit it pretty hard. It's a strong Pokemon though - and having it lower than A would be insulting.
As for Tailow - this one we've discussed a lot. We figure there are a couple problems:
1) Tailow wants Brave Bird to really stand out
Tailow has no access to Brave Bird besides some luck with the egg moves or evolving into a Swellow and obtaining a Heart Scale
2) Tailow relies on status to be effective
Tailow brings a problem of being a bit more reliant on carrying items such as Potions and the like. You don't want to take Tailow to the Pokemon Center often and you obviously don't want to deposit it into your box either (as that instantly heals it).
3) Tailow has so-so gym performance
Though it can crush a lot of competition (Brawly in particular) it doesn't really sweep gyms like crazy. It is much more effective as a field Pokemon.
I wouldn't be completely opposed to A Tailow since many playthroughs such as speed runs have proven Tailow's prowess (though it is a bit different from tier lists - which is the big problem with the direct comparison).
I guess while I'm at it I'll look at hard's post too. Since no one has voiced objections in my post - I will likely change the tier list throughout the week. Please don't be afraid to stand up!
I had a hard time keeping the argument from Lucchini on it being A. Though it's a slower Pokemon it has moments where it really shines - the Third through Sixth gym are just massive advantages for Geodude barring some rough moments (confusion blows). I also wouldn't completely knock it on the Elite 4 - it brings some utility with Stealth Rock vs Glacia and can also be useful vs Steven to bust through Aggron's Sturdy as well. It also chips Armaldo really hard. It is a bit shaky lategame, but I found it can sort of hold its weight. It's stronger presence earlier in the game helps it out too.Geodude (Golem)
This should be a rock solid performer from the point you get it.
Sturdy and Rock Polish make setting up a decent possibility but at the same time depending on a boost of speed lowers the value when it comes to clearing route trainers.
Its gym performances are very good apart from Sootopolis and even against the E4 it can majorly contribute if you can set up.
Apart from the route fights this does sound a lot like A.
I backed down on it because it was only Lucchini and I arguing with Golem and no one else really came in on either side. Golem is strong, but I won't lie being slow as balls really sucks sometimes. At least it has some interesting curveballs like Smack Down and Stealth Rock to troll some Pokemon really hard (Koffing and Skarmory as two examples).
Apparently via chain of events you can get a Seedot with Beat Up. It isn't a whole lot, but it makes the early game a lot less stressful and reliant on taking a crapton of damage.Seedot (OR)
The little hazelnut has many difficult periods to master, where your team needs to drag it through.
It even lacks most of grass types utility, so it really requires you to drag it on.
The typing is wonderful for the endgame and as a Chlorophyll sweeper it can leave a very good impression from Mossdeep onwards.
I want to go back on this because I mentioned putting Beautifly and Masquerain to C, and I still can stand by it.Wurmple (Beautifly)
Because of typing and quite small movepool it does suffer during many periods until it gets one of the best setup moves in late game.
Setting up in front of special attackers almost always guarantees a sweep, but such opportunities are quite rare.
One thing is their earlygames are pretty rough. Surskit's is odd but better than Beautifly's, but Beautifly can escape it by Level 10. Both maybe contribute a single move in the first gym - two tops. Beautifly is probably better against Brawly since it should have STAB Gust at that point. It really isn't until the Fourth Gym where Surskit is decent, and that's just because Masquerain has came and then you can grab your Bug Buzz / Quiver Dance goodies. It's okay vs Flannery but I really still see it struggling because Sunny Day kind of hampers Bubblebeam (and crits under the sun probably suck for Masquerain). Beautifly is garbage here. Their gym performances never really pick up until Gyms 7 and 8 - and 8 is a bit better with Beautifly due to Giga Drain. The Elite Four is really rubbish for them both despite having Bug - they're great against Sydney, but they're horrible against everyone else. Masquerain has some dominance if it has a hold of Ice Beam, but as previously mentioned it still is a detour that has to be taken.
The problem isn't that they're insufficient to be used, but they're really reliant on niche circumstances to set up and their power is lacking at times. Though Masquerain has STAB Bug Buzz it deals with two gyms that take crap against it (Flannery and Winona). The best you can try to do against Norman is Intimidate the hell out of Slaking and then set up. Though I bet even a +6 Bug Buzz could fail to KO sometimes (Slaking is weaker in SpD but Masq isn't packing that much SpA either). Both just really scream lackluster to me even with Masquerain having a leg up on a setup move and a strong STAB.