ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M2

[silenced]

Mega Steelix: C ----> Unranked

Simply put, there is no reason to ever use this when Mega Aggron is an option.

Aggron has the same Defense, higher Attack, better typing and a better ability. All Steelix has going for it is STAB Earthquake and marginally higher Special Defense.

Just to add to this, before we get the same tired old "it checks volt-turn" arguments, mega-lix is still pretty damn bad at that. The only UU relevant volt-switch mons you block are Rotom-C (who burns you for your trouble), defensive mega-ampharos (offensive ones force you to bet on focus miss living up to its nickname), jolteon (who is garbage in of itself), and galvantula (Who I think doesn't even bother to volt-switch anymore due to the suicide sticky web lead role).

You want to block volt-switching? Run pretty much any other ground type alongside M-Aggron.

 

[nv]

Ok since this is brought up yet again, Imma link to my previous post about Mega Steelix and state again that it is fine in C rank and the only reason it isn't used as much as MAggron is because of Filter + Thunder Wave since Mega Steelix has better special bulk (not factoring MAggron's Filter) and a nice secondary typing. I hope other people agree with me, but maybe I am just adamantly fighting on the wrong side of this argument...

 

[Skankovich]

Hellolisk is also blocked depending on the coverage it chooses, so that leaves rotom-h who can always answer to it- you can say it's "shitty" at blocking voltturn, but that's a really solid bunch of mons on the playstyle that struggle with it, and it even sets up the rocks that the playstyle hates so much. It definitely has a good niche and is easily deserving of C (Also, Maggron's higher attack is largely irrelevant when Mega Steelix almost always hits a decently higher BP with heavy slam)

 

[Christo]

Mega Steelix: C ----> Unranked

Simply put, there is no reason to ever use this when Mega Aggron is an option.

Aggron has the same Defense, higher Attack, better typing and a better ability. All Steelix has going for it is STAB Earthquake and marginally higher Special Defense.

Well, it's main appeal is to stop volt turn

 

[Malin]

I agree with Mega Steelix being C-Rank.

Small niche
Numerous notable flaws
extensive support to be effective
face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon
their niches aren't all too useful for the current metagame

It seems like the exactly description of M-Steelix in UU meta.

 

[DaSpoofy]

Mega Steelix also has a small niche over aggron with its offensive pressure in sand and a stab earthquake.

 

[silenced]

Hellolisk is also blocked depending on the coverage it chooses, so that leaves rotom-h who can always answer to it- you can say it's "shitty" at blocking voltturn, but that's a really solid bunch of mons on the playstyle that struggle with it, and it even sets up the rocks that the playstyle hates so much. It definitely has a good niche and is easily deserving of C (Also, Maggron's higher attack is largely irrelevant when Mega Steelix almost always hits a decently higher BP with heavy slam)

Heliolisk should never be blocked because you should be packing surf to limit the number of mons who can block your pivoting. As for rocks, no volt-turn team should be lacking something to block rocks (Xatu) or remove them (crobat, gligar etc.). I really don't think blocking 2 mons on 1 playstyle is that good of a niche to justify a rank. You're blocking a single A rank mon which has its own significant opportunity cost, 2 B rank mons (one of which doesn't even volt-switch often, and the other crippling you with WoW until you can get a cleric out) and a c rank mon that is crap in its own right. If I wanted to rank something for such niche usage, I'd be asking poliwrath to get a viability ranking in C.

 

[Thisbemyalt]

Mega Steelix: C ----> Unranked

Simply put, there is no reason to ever use this when Mega Aggron is an option.

Aggron has the same Defense, higher Attack, better typing and a better ability. All Steelix has going for it is STAB Earthquake and marginally higher Special Defense.

This has been brought up multiple times and there r two more reasons for Steelix to stay C than you listed
1. Immunity to volt switch which is very important
2. Stronger heavy slam
Honestly I think steelix should stay C its pretty nice on a team weak to volt turn which lixx very effectively shuts down

 

[Hogg]

Heliolisk should never be blocked because you should be packing surf to limit the number of mons who can block your pivoting.

Most Heliolisk that I see these days run Volt Switch/Tbolt/Hyper Voice/Grass Knot. Surf is a concern, but it's easy enough to scout for with doubles.

EDIT: And anyhow, you're missing the point of blocking Volt Switch regardless. The point is to deny the opponent momentum - you don't actually need to stay in and beat him one on one. Let's say you've got two teams with a fairly common core of bulky Steel + Florges. One uses MAggron, the other uses MSteelix.

SCENARIO 1: Opposing team brings out Heliolisk against your Suicune or whatever. With the MAggron + Florges core, you can bring in Florges to suck up the Volt Switch. You only take 25-30% plus 12.5% from SR, but he brings in something that chases you out, which gets a free switch. Now the next time you have to bring in Florges it's at maximum 50% of health and can no longer wall strong Special Attackers effectively.

SCENARIO 2: Opposing team brings out Heliolisk against your Suicune or whatever. With the MSteelix + Florges core, you bring in Steelix to block the Volt Switch. Then you double out to Florges to scout for the Surf. Surf doesn't do very much, and you're free to Moonblast or Wish on the turn he Volt Switches out, putting you in a much better position overall.

 

[Venoxio]

Speaking of Mega Aggron...

Mega Aggron A- --> A

Mega Aggron has got to be one of the most defensive Pokemon in the game. With it's awesome type and stats, it's a heck of a wall. Also, I noticed that Florges works together frightenly well, giving Wish support and patching up Aggron's weak special defense. It can take many hits such as Entei's Sacred Fire, Mega Camerupt's Earth Power (not Fire Blast though) and Alakazam's Focus Blast.


This way MAggron becomes one of the biggest threats in the tier with utility and lots of attack, too. Heavy Slam dents anything that dosen't resist, and Earthquake is for coverage. Toxic and Stealth Rock also help wear down some huge threats like Feraligatr and Infernape.

EDIT: Also, how do you hide things?

Joey edit: [.HIDE=textiwanttheclickbuttonto say]
Insert hidden text here
[/.HIDE]

Just remove periods next to hide

 

[DaSpoofy]

Speaking of Mega Aggron...

Mega Aggron A- --> A

Mega Aggron has got to be one of the most defensive Pokemon in the game. With it's awesome type and stats, it's a heck of a wall. Also, I noticed that Florges works together frightenly well, giving Wish support and patching up Aggron's weak special defense. It can take many hits such as Entei's Sacred Fire, Mega Camerupt's Earth Power (not Fire Blast though) and Alakazam's Focus Blast.


This way MAggron becomes one of the biggest threats in the tier with utility and lots of attack, too. Heavy Slam dents anything that dosen't resist, and Earthquake is for coverage. Toxic and Stealth Rock also help wear down some huge threats like Feraligatr and Infernape.

EDIT: Also, how do you hide things?

Its a wall with no reliable recovery. A- is fine

 

[Thisbemyalt]

Its a wall with no reliable recovery. A- is fine

Honestly I find aggron paired with a good cleric makes him an amazing wall along with offensive presence and great utility. I would say his need for a cleric though might be enough to keep him out of A however I would not be opposed to moving aggron up since it is such an excellent mon in the current meta dominated by mence, aero, pidge and gatr (maggron can cripple gatr or roar is out same goes for pidge and mence). Frankly it is unique in the fact that it is the best tank mega which makes it a bit easier to fit on teams especially with providing rocks utility and helping to check the above mentioned mons especially being the best maero counter.

 

[DaSpoofy]

Honestly I find aggron paired with a good cleric makes him an amazing wall along with offensive presence and great utility. I would say his need for a cleric though might be enough to keep him out of A however I would not be opposed to moving aggron up since it is such an excellent mon in the current meta dominated by mence, aero, pidge and gatr (maggron can cripple gatr or roar is out same goes for pidge and mence). Frankly it is unique in the fact that it is the best tank mega which makes it a bit easier to fit on teams especially with providing rocks utility and helping to check the above mentioned mons especially being the best maero counter.

Well yeah i see maggron florges all the time but my point is that it needs something like that. Especially against stall / balance

100Th message woo hoo

 

[Wanka]

Mega Steelix: C ----> Unranked

Simply put, there is no reason to ever use this when Mega Aggron is an option.

Aggron has the same Defense, higher Attack, better typing and a better ability. All Steelix has going for it is STAB Earthquake and marginally higher Special Defense.

The immunity to electric is keeping it at C as well.

 

[Euphonos]

Mega Steelix: C ----> Unranked

Simply put, there is no reason to ever use this when Mega Aggron is an option.

Aggron has the same Defense, higher Attack, better typing and a better ability. All Steelix has going for it is STAB Earthquake and marginally higher Special Defense.

I beg to differ.

Mega Steelix is one of the best VoltTurn recipients unlike Mega Aggron thanks to its immunity to Electric attacks, which is a big selling point. And technically, Mega Steelix has marginally better bulk than Mega Aggron; it's Filter that helps Mega Aggron cushion attacks better; Mold Breaker Pokémon will break Mega Aggron's ability anyway.

Let Mega Steelix remain in the C-rank, unless someone else could convince the public about it.

UGHHH SO MUCH NINJA

 

[r0ady]

Defensive flygon is a shit gligar and tbh gligar is pretty shit rn being set up fodder for like everything in the fckn tier -_-

 

[Mass Romantic]

Can anyone tell me what Mega Aerodactyl's S-ranked set is? Offensive w/ Taunt, Defog support, SR setter? I've been experimenting a bit and I'm not finding it on par with Salamance or Suicune due to not finding many opportunities to switch in, but I'm pretty much 100% certain that's just me lol
Also, definitely don't agree on Steelix moving up - don't really have anything new to say, but just logically it's a much inferior Aggron...

 

[carrilero]

Can anyone tell me what Mega Aerodactyl's S-ranked set is? Offensive w/ Taunt, Defog support, SR setter? I've been experimenting a bit and I'm not finding it on par with Salamance or Suicune due to not finding many opportunities to switch in, but I'm pretty much 100% certain that's just me lol
Also, definitely don't agree on Steelix moving up - don't really have anything new to say, but just logically it's a much inferior Aggron...

I believe the standard M-Aero set is Stone Edge, Ariel Ace, Aqua Tail and Roost however it can also run a Hone Claws set which is also incredibly scary if allowed to set up. The reason its S-rank is because its the fastest non-scarfer in the tier making it a fantastic revenge killer and late-game sweeper meaning its not supposed to be able to switch into attacks. There's also not much in the tier that wants to take an attack from it meaning it is nearly unwallable. Its fine at S-rank.

 

[YABO]

Can anyone tell me what Mega Aerodactyl's S-ranked set is? Offensive w/ Taunt, Defog support, SR setter? I've been experimenting a bit and I'm not finding it on par with Salamance or Suicune due to not finding many opportunities to switch in, but I'm pretty much 100% certain that's just me lol
Also, definitely don't agree on Steelix moving up - don't really have anything new to say, but just logically it's a much inferior Aggron...

Aero can run pretty much whatever it wants which is the main reason it's so good. It can choose what beats it for the most part by using sets like Taunt+Roost, 3 attack Roost, Defog, Stealth Rock, etc. Its offensive movepool also lets it beat some would be checks with options such as Aqua Tail for Nidos, Krook, and Hippo. Earthquake dents the Nidos while killing Empoleon. Even moves such as Fire Fang and Iron Tail have seen some success in tournament matches to beat Forretress and Florges. This list so far fails to include Hone Claws Aero which is a really threatening mon in itself. All of these coupled with passable bulk and blazing speed earn Mega Aerodactyl its S Rank position.

 

[gantz]

In my opinion, Gligar should be at least a B+ rank pokemon if not -A. It is one of the best if not the best physical wall in the tier, Being only weak to water and ice, it is easily pairable with pokemon like Florges, Umbreon, and Blissey, Suicune, and Vaporeon which complete a very effective core. It has both excellent defense with eviolite and good special bulk as well. It has access to Stealth Rock, Defog, Roost, Knock Off, and U-Turn, allowing it to set up and remove hazards, pivot, and recover HP reliably. Gligar counters & checks 2/3 most common and powerful pokemon in the tier in aero and salamence, and checks many more of the A rank pokes.

 

[r0ady]

In my opinion, Gligar should be at least a B+ rank pokemon if not -A. It is one of the best if not the best physical wall in the tier, Being only weak to water and ice, it is easily pairable with pokemon like Florges, Umbreon, and Blissey, Suicune, and Vaporeon which complete a very effective core. It has both excellent defense with eviolite and good special bulk as well. It has access to Stealth Rock, Defog, Roost, Knock Off, and U-Turn, allowing it to set up and remove hazards, pivot, and recover HP reliably. Gligar counters & checks 2/3 most common and powerful pokemon in the tier in aero and salamence, and checks many more of the A rank pokes.

Hello gligar is set up fodder for mence and aero

 

[gantz]

Hello gligar is set up fodder for mence and aero

Gligar can easily run Stone Edge > U-Turn / SR if you already have something that has it, which will let it use Immunity. or you can run it over Defog if you already have that.

0 Atk Gligar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Salamence: 136-162 (41 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Gligar Stone Edge vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 130-154 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

both guaranteed 2HKO's after SR.

 

[Adaam]

In my opinion, Gligar should be at least a B+ rank pokemon if not -A. It is one of the best if not the best physical wall in the tier, Being only weak to water and ice, it is easily pairable with pokemon like Florges, Umbreon, and Blissey, Suicune, and Vaporeon which complete a very effective core. It has both excellent defense with eviolite and good special bulk as well. It has access to Stealth Rock, Defog, Roost, Knock Off, and U-Turn, allowing it to set up and remove hazards, pivot, and recover HP reliably. Gligar counters & checks 2/3 most common and powerful pokemon in the tier in aero and salamence, and checks many more of the A rank pokes.

Forgive me if I am wrong but I think it's so low because without Toxic, it is set up bait for literally everything, including but not limited to:

Suicune, Hone Claws + Roost Aero, Cress, Salamence, Gatr, Snorlax, Reuniclus, CM Florges, Work Up Pidgeot, and anything else with set up moves not weak to EQ (I can't think of any off the top of my head). Even with toxic, Refresh Pidgeot, Snorlax, Reuniclus, Suicine, Florges, and even refresh Mence aren't crippled with Toxic. And if it runs Toxic, then it has only one extra slot (the other two must haves are EQ and Roost), so it can't use U-Turn as it probably will be a rock setter or defogger. No U-Turn is bad since its a massive momentum drain

Also stone edge IMO is pretty bad since it only handles a few of the threats and they can easily roost off the health due to the dropped flying type

 

[Kyuzeth]

Gligar can easily run Stone Edge > U-Turn / SR if you already have something that has it, which will let it use Immunity. or you can run it over Defog if you already have that.

0 Atk Gligar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Salamence: 136-162 (41 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Gligar Stone Edge vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 130-154 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

both guaranteed 2HKO's after SR.

Gligar is still set-up bait if Salamence comes in and Intimidates.
-1 0 Atk Gligar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 92-110 (27.7 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
And then Salamence can either Roost-stall Gligar out of Stone Edges, after which the following happens:
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 141-166 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Nah, Gligar isn't the best option against Salamence.

 

[r0ady]

Forgive me if I am wrong but I think it's so slow because without Toxic, it is set up bait for literally everything, including but not limited to:

Suicune, Hone Claws + Roost Aero, Cress, Salamence, Gatr, Snorlax, Reuniclus, CM Florges, Work Up Pidgeot, and anything else with set up moves not weak to EQ (I can't think of any off the top of my head). Even with toxic, Refresh Pidgeot, Snorlax, Reuniclus, Suicine, Florges, and even refresh Mence aren't crippled with Toxic. And if it runs Toxic, then it has only one extra slot (the other two must haves are EQ and Roost), so it can't use U-Turn as it probably will be a rock setter or defogger. No U-Turn is bad since its a massive momentum drain

Also stone edge IMO is pretty bad since it only handles a few of the threats and they can easily roost off the health due to the dropped flying type

not to mention taunt hone claws aero, sub dd mence, curse pert, sd hera, all forms of gatr, linda, big linda...