ORAS UU Viability Rankings V4

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thought on nominations:
Zapdos in A: I fully support this Zapdos in not gonna find a place in any higher rank in this meta currently its defensive sets are not as threating as thoughtit would be, and its offensive sets are really good I feel the lo+3 is the most common
Snorlax to A-: a few months ago we were trying to get snorlax into A+ rank which i was never for now we are dicussing it dropping to A- and I am all for this nomination curselax is stlll good as well as its other vialble sets but cobalion deals with curselax too well with the rise of shuca berry, and doublade has no problem taking it on so I support this drop
Nidoking to A-: Nidoings mix set definetly seperates it from nidoqueen being able to 2hko blissey and snorlax, and its speed tier is pretty decent being ableto revenge kill non scarf chandy and speed tying with toxicroak and herracross is pretty neat but still has a few flaws but they dont keep him from risen imo
Umbreon to A-: I agree with it able to stall and avoid being settup fodder with taunt andwith the drop of zapdos it has another mon to annoy so rise it up
Mandibuzz to A-: yea i agree with this one to hate for it to drop so soon but zapdos made it kind of irrevelant has a defogger
Oh yea and I like to make some random nominations again:




Nominating shedninja for B-
I think shedninja doesnt belong in c rank since its still a solid sweeper with sd and wonder gaurd is great for setting up on bulky water types if lacking roar, it even uses reuniclus and mamoswine as settup fodder at times, also non heat wave zapdos if lacking knock off has settup fodder due to its wonderful ability, Wonder gaurd also makes switching in not so hard for shedninja.
However its pitful hp makes entry hazards removal a must for shedninja, seriously if theres hazards up shedninja cant come into the battle field and it has a horrible speed tier and medicore base attack but i still feel shedninja getting out of c should be dicussed
 
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Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
Nominating Chesnaught from B+ to B
Chesnaught, I feel, isn't very good lately. It's matchups in the current meta are mostly bad, as Zapdos walls it, and Ice and Fire types are runnin' wild. Fairy types like Whimsicott and Florges also pose a big problem for it, which isn't good. Chesnaught, with all of this, finds it very hard to do it's job : be a physical wall and set up Spikes. Chesnaught still has it's uses, though. It still is a decent physical wall, walling things like Cobalion and Feraligatr decently. But since Zapdos has joined and the meta has turned worse for things like Gatr, Chesnaught is quickling losing it's value. Therefore, with all of these faults, I think Chesnaught should drop to B.

(Also R.I.P. Gatr in S rank.)
 
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thought on nominations:
Zapdos in A: I fully support this Zapdos in not gonna find a place in any higher rank in this meta currently its defensive sets are not as threating as thoughtit would be, and its offensive sets are really good I feel the lo+3 is the most common
Snorlax to A-: a few months ago we were trying to get snorlax into A+ rank which i was never for now we are dicussing it dropping to A- and I am all for this nomination curselax is stlll good as well as its other vialble sets but cobalion deals with curselax too well with the rise of shuca berry, and doublade has no problem taking it on so I support this drop
Nidoking to A-: Nidoings mix set definetly seperates it from nidoqueen being able to 2hko blissey and snorlax, and its speed tier is pretty decent being ableto revenge kill non scarf chandy and speed tying with toxicroak and herracross is pretty neat but still has a few flaws but they dont keep him from risen imo
Umbreon to A-: I agree with it able to stall and avoid being settup fodder with taunt andwith the drop of zapdos it has another mon to annoy so rise it up
Mandibuzz to A-: yea i agree with this one to hate for it to drop so soon but zapdos made it kind of irrevelant has a defogger
Oh yea and I like to make some random nominations again:




Nominating shedninja for B-
I think shedninja doesnt belong in c rank since its still a solid sweeper with sd and wonder gaurd is great for setting up on bulky water types if lacking roar, it even uses reuniclus and mamoswine, also non heat wave zapdos if lacking knock off has settup fodder due to its wonderful ability, Wonder gaurd also makes switching in not so hard for shedninja.
However its pitful hp makes entry hazards removal a must for shedninja, seriously if theres hazards up shedninja cant come into the battle field and it has a horrible speed tier and medicore base attack but i still feel shedninja getting out of c should be dicussed
Shedinja requires a ton of support in order for it to even do anything. Not only that, but Abomasbow is becoming more popular and a lot if sets i see now a days have some type of coverage that hits Shedinja. Unless Stealth rocks gets banned (which it wont) I dont see Shedinja moving passed C ranking.
 
Shedinja requires a ton of support in order for it to even do anything. Not only that, but Abomasbow is becoming more popular and a lot if sets i see now a days have some type of coverage that hits Shedinja. Unless Stealth rocks gets banned (which it wont) I dont see Shedinja moving passed C ranking.
Doesnt every mon in B- repuire a good amount of team support to be effective, and if hazards r off the field which is not that hard to get rid of imo shedninja can find a lot of settup oppurnities especially on bulky water types, and it can catch unprepared teams off gaurd, I find shedninjas niche somewhat relevenant in uu and it doesnt feel right in C rank imo
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Yes its niche is somewhat relevant, but the fact that Shedinja's niche is somewhat relevant is the sole reason it's on the list at all. I get that a lot of the lower ranked mons need a good amount of support to be effective, but Shedinja really needs insane amounts of support to be effective, so much to the point where Shedinja actually needs an extremely specific team composition to be effective. Even when you consider that hazards are to some degree easy to get rid of, Shedinja still finds itself pretty weak to the meta, as its weaknesses are pretty damn common (Knock Off, Brave Bird, etc.). It's not just hazards that pose an issue for Shedinja, because it's also incredibly weak to status, which means Will-O-Wisp and Toxic are things you need to be careful about. You also have to get rid of things like Rocky Helmet Forry, Mega Amphy, etc. which can put a stop to Shed.

Yeah Shedinja has a somewhat relevant niche, but outside of that it's a really mediocre Pokemon, and for it to work you need to literally construct your entire team to make Shedinja work. It does set up on some common shit like Suicune, Snorlax, and Cobalion and can sweep late game, or use Baton Pass, but something that needs the whole team structured around it like Shed doesn't deserve to go higher than C. It has way too many downsides to move up.
 

Legacy Raider

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I'd like to make an argument for Jellicent B+ -> A-. It is a very powerful pokemon in the tier right now even with Zapdos' drop, imo much more comparable to A/A- pokemon such as Porygon2, Tangrowth, Machamp, Infernape, Shaymin, Mandibuzz, etc than B+ stuff like Arcanine / Moltres / Bronzong / Chesnaught. Like Bronzong it walls a large number of pokemon but is Knock Off weak, but unlike Bronzong it has access to excellent moves like Taunt, Recover and Will-O-Wisp. It is one of the most self-sustaining bulky waters and pulls its weight against both offense and defense, with Will-O-Wisp and a moderately fast Taunt respectively. It also fills very specific roles that carve it an important niche:
  • Excellent hazard control - Blocks Rapid Spin by virtue of its typing, beating common spinners such as Forretress and Tentacruel. Also shuts down slow Defog users such as Empoleon and Gligar. Also prevents the setting up of opposing hazards by slow pokemon such as Forretress, Swampert, Donphan, etc.
  • Very good check to common threats such as M-Beedrill, Cobalion, and Heracross. Does not like Knock Off but takes ~60% from Jolly Adaptability Beedrill's initial hit (and most seem to run Drill Run / something else instead anyway) and can recover off the damage very easily, after which it is not a 2HKO and Jellicent wins with Wisp/Scald.
  • Water Absorb - great switch in to Scald, which imo every team should consider. Also shuts down both CroCune and Roar CM Cune with Water Absorb + Taunt.
  • Potent Stallbreaker - Taunt + Bulk + Recovery goes a very long way, especially when you are immune to Blissey's Seismic Toss.
  • General bulky water + immediate recovery - serves the normal bulky water roles of switching into stuff like Entei, Arcanine, etc.
This isn't to say that Jellicent is without its weaknesses, as it does struggle more vs Feraligatr / Sharpedo because of Crunch so you need to take other team precautions, and Krookodile / Pursuit needs to be played around carefully although it can't come directly in. However I have used Jellicent a considerable amount and feel it is undervalued atm. Can elaborate further on my experiences if required, but will provide two recent replays which show how Jellicent is excellent at helping with both offense and defense if played properly:

- http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-292384879
I am put on the back foot by a powerful VoltTurn core and am chasing the game throughout. Jellicent is surprised by an offensive Grass Knot Seismitoad, and then is repeatedly haxed by a +2 Cobalion, but despite this ends up pulling through and takes out half his team.

- http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-292669999
Imo an excellent example of how Jellicent can just pick apart balanced teams through a combination of walling / burning offensive threats and Taunting / outlasting defensive mons.

I've had these thoughts for a while but only started gathering replays over the last few matches when I felt I should post. Thanks for reading.
 
Update time:

Mandibuzz: A to A-
Nidoking: B+ to A-
Umbreon: B+ to A-
e: gonna throw Tyrantrum: A to A- and Doublade: A to A- as well, pretty against Forre dropping

Nominations:
Swampert: A- to A (we decided against this last time, but see IB's post)
Jellicent: B+ to A- (leaning towards yes already for this one)
Krookodile: A+ to A

Stuff that won't change: Togetic, Chesnaught, Shedinja
 
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YABO

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I'm fairly neutral on the noms on the slate for this cycle but I do have a few other things I'd like to raise attention to. Most of these have to do with Zapdos' effect on the tier so don't be surprised to see me mention Zapdos a lot.

>B+/B(might be a stretch) To be honest, I don't know why Forretress is even here to begin with. It faces competition from pretty much everything for any of its roles. It's of course nice to consolidate stuff like rocks + spin with a cool typing, but with Forre you leave yourself open to everything just dismantling your team. If forre comes in and doesn't immediately click volt switch as something like Infernape comes in, you're in for a world of hurt. Not to mention Zapdos is a free switch vs Forretress while beating it and defogging easily.

>A- This proposal is related to Zapdos on two fronts. Firstly, Zapdos beats Doublade, thus lowering its viability. Secondly, Zapdos is another solid answer to the fighting types of the tier, which lowers the need to run doublade to beat pokemon like Lucario. Also, Zapdos is another sneaky way to add a flying resist. Zapdos also promotes the use of bulkier ground types which Doublade has trouble with (Nidoqueen, Swampert, Krookodile, even Camerupt).

>B+ This should have dropped back down to B+ awhile ago to be perfectly honest. Tyrantrum rose to fame back in a time where Crobat was king and Cobalion/Doublade were just beginning to show up. Basically, no one ran rock resists. For this reason, if you came in on a Brave Bird, Defog, or Roost; you claimed a kill 80% of the time. Since then we've seen the roles reverse where Crobat has fallen tremendously out of favor and Cobalion/Doublade have risen to prominence.
 
Update time:

Mandibuzz: A to A-
Nidoking: B+ to A-
Umbreon: B+ to A-
e: gonna throw Tyrantrum: A to A- and Doublade: A to A- as well, pretty against Forre dropping

Nominations:
Swampert: A- to A (we decided against this last time, but see IB's post)
Jellicent: B+ to A- (leaning towards yes already for this one)
Krookodile: A+ to A

Stuff that won't change: Togetic, Chesnaught, Shedinja
(Tyrantrum to B+)on the fence With crobat fallen from its grace and people are bringing rock resist it does put an argument but i really dont see how the rise of doublade and cobalion hurt rantrum its choice band sets easily beats doublade and with cobalion it can most likely beat it one on one with without rocks, I dont honestly see how the rise of those two mons keep rantrum from staying A-, and the recent drops has kind of benefit it espescially zapdos. I dont completely disagree with this but i still havent been convinced on why it should drop.

(Doublade to A-) Im completely for this I never was for doublade being in A rank, with Zapdos making its way here it defineltly makes doublades life a little tuff, and overall ive never had trouble with it from personal experiences, its still a great mon and physical wall but i never saw it on empoleons or shaymins level

(Jellicent to A-) This is overdue the previous posts proved why it should rank up.

(Krookodile to A) I agree with this one krookodile is an amazing mon in this meta but i dont see it has threating as the other mons in A+ and it definelty fits A rank much better.

(Forretress to B+) I can see forretress being b+ but B is overdoing it but I definetly feel that forretress is on the same level as tentacruel,forretress while its an good wall, its too vunerable to neutral special attacks and considering the fact that is settup fodder for common sweepers like reuniclus and suicune, hell it doesnt even threatren florgres, Its typing is still awesome but B+ is just right for it

(Swampert to A) Iron bullet convinced me to agree with this one
 

Adaam

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to A-. Despite Zapdos' presence, Escavalier deserves a raise. It's typing and bulk blanket check a significant portion of the tier, including the ubiquitous CM Florges, Reuniclus, and Mence (if no Fire Blast). It keeps these threats (among many others) in check to give you enough time to set up your own win con while simultaneously proving support with Knock Off spam. It can even punch its own holes in fatter teams with SD + 3 Attacks.

Its biggest knock is by far it's poor speed and 4x fire weakness, which makes it easy to revenge kill with any fire move. However, using Protect, you can bypass such a scenario since some of the tiers Fire types of Choiced (Chandelure, Rotom-H, Darmanitan). Entei is also Choiced but you know it's clicking SF so it doesn't matter. With protect, you can see if the fire type decides to click a fire STAB, a coverage move, U-Turn or Volt switch, or Trick and react accordingly.
 

Hogg

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Strongly agree with the most recent drops. Doublade doesn't just struggle with Zapdos; it has also been struggling as a Fairy check lately, since its lack of recovery means it gets worn down easily by the stronger Fairy sets I've been seeing more of (CM Florges being the big one, but also a resurgence of Specs and Pixie Plate Whimsicott).

Definitely agreeing with the changes for Jelly and Krook. Krook mostly rose on the strength of its Dread Plate Rocks set displacing Nidoqueen as the offensive Rocks setter of choice; that set has lost a lot of its potency now with the rise in popularity of Coba and strong threats such as Adamant Bee (who stands an excellent chance of KOing with U-turn even after the Intimidate). CB Krook is still a beast, and Dread Plate Krook isn't bad by any means, but I just don't think it's as threatening as it was when it rose to A+.

Meanwhile, Jellicent is so savage against many of the popular slower balance teams and actually does reasonably well at checking some standard offensive threats also. Its bulk is a little disappointing for a wall, but typing, ability and movepool are right where they need to be. I haven't played with this much this meta until recently, but it's quite good right now.

Re: Swampert, it's incredibly reliable as a rocker, and checks a whole lot in one team slot, so I'm inclined to agree to a move up to A, but I don't have super strong feelings on it either way.

One change that hasn't been mentioned is that I'd like to see Mega-Absol rise to B+. It has a really threatening Speed tier, especially when you consider how unpopular Scarfers have been this meta, and it can eat through its counters depending on coverage (+2 Superpower KOs Cobalion, Fire Blast is great in general for Coba/Doublade/Forry even though it misses the KO on the first, Iron Tail is always a nice surprise for Fairies). I've toyed around with both its SD Superpower set and a four attacks mixed set, and they're both better now than they have been in a long time. Once replays come back up I can show replays a team built around the mixed set and how brutal it can be. It still dies to a sneeze, so I don't think it's quite worthy of a rise all the way to the A ranks, but B feels wrong for it considering how threatening it can be.
 
Mega-Chomp to A+

The rise of Zapdos is interesting for Mega-Chomp, as it obviously doesn't want to switch into it. However, with how effective new meta Pokemon like Offensive Zapdos and Jellicent are becoming, Mega-Shark is pretty intimidating to work around. Add on to the great matchups against the majority of the S-Ranked Pokemon, and we have at least a consideration for a bump up.

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Zapdos: 256-302 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Jellicent: 396-468 (98 - 115.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 318-374 (87.3 - 102.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Hydreigon and Reuniclus are both just under a OHKO with Jolly and SR support, but are taken down with Adamant. Salamence is taken care of easily.

Bulky waters will always be incredibly strong and popular in UU unless a drastic meta change occurs, so it likely won't ever go higher than A+. Pokemon like Tangrowth/Toxicroak that are decently common and effective will still give it trouble. However, it seems like the recent changes to UU with Zapdos' drop has made it a little easier to use the Shark. I'll try and find some replays and post it, but if you haven't given Mega-Sharpedo another shot recently, definitely give it a shot.
 
Mega-Chomp to A+

The rise of Zapdos is interesting for Mega-Chomp, as it obviously doesn't want to switch into it. However, with how effective new meta Pokemon like Offensive Zapdos and Jellicent are becoming, Mega-Shark is pretty intimidating to work around. Add on to the great matchups against the majority of the S-Ranked Pokemon, and we have at least a consideration for a bump up.

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Zapdos: 256-302 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Jellicent: 396-468 (98 - 115.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 318-374 (87.3 - 102.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Hydreigon and Reuniclus are both just under a OHKO with Jolly and SR support, but are taken down with Adamant. Salamence is taken care of easily.

Bulky waters will always be incredibly strong and popular in UU unless a drastic meta change occurs, so it likely won't ever go higher than A+. Pokemon like Tangrowth/Toxicroak that are decently common and effective will still give it trouble. However, it seems like the recent changes to UU with Zapdos' drop has made it a little easier to use the Shark. I'll try and find some replays and post it, but if you haven't given Mega-Sharpedo another shot recently, definitely give it a shot.
m
I really do like Mega-Sharpedo, it is in fact my favorite mega in UU, and I think it is amazing, but I honestly don't think it deserves that rank. It is in my opinion the best late game sweeper in the game and hazard stacking is so good with it, but it is countered easily. Mega Sharpedo is VERY weak to priority, mostly extremespeed, but it is also weak to mach punch and vaccum wave and it is just so frail, and struggles against many nuetral hits. It also is weak to Choice Scarfers, as some can still outspeed after a speed boost, and ohko shark. Its defensive typing also doesn't help it out either, as it is weak to so many common typings. There is so many popular counters to it, especially defensive walls that can tank its hits and OHKO mega sharpedo. This includes mons like Coballion, Mega-Aggron, Bulky waters, Florges, Doublade, etc. Mega sharpedo is also very one dimensional, probably the best one dimensional mon in the tier, but again, countered easily and predictable.

Again, dont get me wrong, I LOVE Mega-Sharpedo, but it is weak to many common threats and is too one dimensional and frail to be put into A+, I think it is good where it is. =)
Venduria
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
m
I really do like Mega-Sharpedo, it is in fact my favorite mega in UU, and I think it is amazing, but I honestly don't think it deserves that rank. It is in my opinion the best late game sweeper in the game and hazard stacking is so good with it, but it is countered easily. Mega Sharpedo is VERY weak to priority, mostly extremespeed, but it is also weak to mach punch and vaccum wave and it is just so frail, and struggles against many nuetral hits. It also is weak to Choice Scarfers, as some can still outspeed after a speed boost, and ohko shark. Its defensive typing also doesn't help it out either, as it is weak to so many common typings. There is so many popular counters to it, especially defensive walls that can tank its hits and OHKO mega sharpedo. This includes mons like Coballion, Mega-Aggron, Bulky waters, Florges, Doublade, etc. Mega sharpedo is also very one dimensional, probably the best one dimensional mon in the tier, but again, countered easily and predictable.

Again, dont get me wrong, I LOVE Mega-Sharpedo, but it is weak to many common threats and is too one dimensional and frail to be put into A+, I think it is good where it is. =)
Venduria
I would like to argue that while Mega Sharpedo is a bit one-dimensional, it isn't as one-dimensional as you think it is. Mixed Mega Sharp is a thing, as Hydro Pump coming from 105 Special Attack does a lot to things like Mega Aggron and Cobalion. Ice Beam can also be useful for things like physically defensive Whimsicott and Tangrowth, and it can even run Destiny Bond to get a guaranteed kill. The only mandatory move on Mega Sharpedo is Crunch and partly Protect. While I don't really care where Mega Sharpedo ends up (I'm leaning towards staying A because of it's bad defenses and stuff countering it, other than that it's clear A+) I just want to say that mega Sharp isn't that one-dimensional.
 
to A- : This thing, with Choice Specs, is even more stupid than Entei, but it does its work. The meta is slowly shifting towards bulky offense and stallish teams, which is very good for the pink duck. Scarf users are getting rare, so PZ has a much easier time blowing shit up thanks to Tri Attack without taking too much damage. In addition, with Zapdos' drop, Steel and Fighting types 'mons that used to annoy PZ (Doublade, Cobalion, Mienshao) are pretty impopular. All this make PZ a potent threat right now. I've been talking a lot about the Specs set (cus it's the best imo), but scarf/dance sets are cool too.
 

LilOu

PO poopyhead
to A- : This thing, with Choice Specs, is even more stupid than Entei, but it does its work. The meta is slowly shifting towards bulky offense and stallish teams, which is very good for the pink duck. Scarf users are getting rare, so PZ has a much easier time blowing shit up thanks to Tri Attack without taking too much damage. In addition, with Zapdos' drop, Steel and Fighting types 'mons that used to annoy PZ (Doublade, Cobalion, Mienshao) are pretty impopular. All this make PZ a potent threat right now. I've been talking a lot about the Specs set (cus it's the best imo), but scarf/dance sets are cool too.
Confirming Aquadext getting tossed by PZ. Credits to Christo for team.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-291371620
 
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MrAldo

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Doublade isnt even a problem when potential dark pulse switch-ins take a good chunk from it anyways.

Porygon-Z damage output is ridiculous with just tri-attack alone. Its movepool is also pretty flexible since right now P-Z only really needs tri attack and dark pulse (I guess also trick but thats more of a luxury imo) so this let the user choose any other move the team may need. Need something extra for water types? thunderbolt, Issues with grass and dragon types or looking for extra insurance? etc, etc. Plus the metagame changes after zapdos introduction really benefit Porygon-Z and should definitely rise to A-, and thats just the specs set.

Some divisive opinions. Krookodile dropped due to cobalion constant presence but then zapdos presence causes cobalion to be less common? So... what do I believe?
 

LilOu

PO poopyhead
Porygon-Z to A- is something I'm totally supporting. I've been using Specs PZ and, since no one really prepares for it, it's capable of demolishing entire teams by itself either by breaking walls vs. slower teams or just straight OHKOing something when granted a free switchin vs. offense. The only thing it really needs is Tri Attack + Dpulse/Sball, as not even Steel-types can come into Specs Tri Attack because most of them have meh SpDef and get outright 2HKOed by it, while Ghost-types can't take Dark/Ghost coverage. UU also has 0 Rock-types, so that's another factor in its favor.

The way I've been using it is fairly simple. Get it in early game and just click Tri Attack. This allows you to break pretty much any defensive switchin and OHKO whatever offensive mon that doesn't resist it, softening the opposing team incredibly easily for another teammate to clean. Here some calcs vs. common switchins:
  • 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 193-228 (59.5 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 221-261 (62.4 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 204-240 (56.6 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 180-214 (50 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 144 HP / 176+ SpD Snorlax: 212-250 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Mega Aggron: 154-182 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252+ SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 338-398 (105.9 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Take into consideration that everything else is 1 shot'd.

PZ does have its downsides, though, as when your opponent has a Ghost-type on their team, prediction will be heavily involved. However, as long as you have some way to deal with either Doublade or Chandelure after they come into your Tri Attack, everything is fine. Also, there are a few mons that are able to take on PZ way better, such as SpDef Empoleon or Blissey, but they are fairly passive, so taking advantage of them is pretty easy. (Trick is also a thing to deal with Blissey and allow PZ to switch moves, but the power loss is noticeable)

Another thing that should be noted about Porygon is that its bulk is not terrible; it can actually take a couple of hits from defensive mons, allowing it to break easier and fire off more Tri Attacks. Though, when talking about offensive mons, it can't come as easily, but it can stay on neutral attacks sometimes and grab an OHKO.

Here some replays of it tossing everyone on their necks. (shoutouts to Christo for the team)
- Porygon kills everything - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-292414030
- Porygon kills everything again - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-292053213
- Porygon kills Mega Aggron so that Mence (almost) sweeps - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-291116317
- Porygon causes ragequit - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-290455928
 
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Some divisive opinions. Krookodile dropped due to cobalion constant presence but then zapdos presence causes cobalion to be less common? So... what do I believe?
You believe exactly in that: Krookodile has been discussed due to Cobalion presence, then Zapdos came and caused both Cobalion and Krookodile to be less common. HP Grass from offensive Zapdos deals about 70~80% to Krookodile, so it's definitely not a switch in, especially since it can't outspeed it. Also, Krookodile usage is suffering from Mamoswine competition, which Ice priority really shines in this meta (including hitting Zapdos hard). Krookodile's Knock Off obvious hit harder than Mamo's, but Mamoswine STAB combination + coverage makes it a much better ground type most of the time.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
Roserade for A-

Roserade is a very good mon right now. It has many pros and not many cons. Roserade can be a specially defensive wall, a Life Orb offensive hazards mon, and it has many other underrated sets like Choice Specs wallbreaking, SubSeed to stall out walls, Double Powder, and even Choice Scarf if you want. It's typing also helps it, as it can take on Fairies and Grasses better than other Grass types thanks to it's STAB Poison type moves. It can support really well too, having access to reliable recovery in Synthesis, a good defensive typing, and it has Spikes and Toxic Spikes as well, as well as having a very good offensive presence thanks to 125 Special Attack. The current meta also helps it, as bulky waters are as popular as ever, and stuff that can wall it, like Steel types, have fallen in popularity a bit, mostly thanks to the presence of things like Zapdos. Also, a lot of teams want stuff like Spikes or TSpikes or a good wall, or a good Grass-type offensive mon. While Roserade has some faults, like it's average 90 speed, it's poor physical defense, and a bit of competition from other Grass types like Tangrowth and Whimsicott, Roserade has so many pros in the current meta that I feel like it should rise to A-.
Roserade for A-
 
Roserade for A-

Roserade is a very good mon right now. It has many pros and not many cons. Roserade can be a specially defensive wall, a Life Orb offensive hazards mon, and it has many other underrated sets like Choice Specs wallbreaking, SubSeed to stall out walls, Double Powder, and even Choice Scarf if you want. It's typing also helps it, as it can take on Fairies and Grasses better than other Grass types thanks to it's STAB Poison type moves. It can support really well too, having access to reliable recovery in Synthesis, a good defensive typing, and it has Spikes and Toxic Spikes as well, as well as having a very good offensive presence thanks to 125 Special Attack. The current meta also helps it, as bulky waters are as popular as ever, and stuff that can wall it, like Steel types, have fallen in popularity a bit, mostly thanks to the presence of things like Zapdos. Also, a lot of teams want stuff like Spikes or TSpikes or a good wall, or a good Grass-type offensive mon. While Roserade has some faults, like it's average 90 speed, it's poor physical defense, and a bit of competition from other Grass types like Tangrowth and Whimsicott, Roserade has so many pros in the current meta that I feel like it should rise to A-.
Roserade for A-
As i love roserade a lot cuz of all its sass, i don't really see a really big reason on why it should rise, in your argument you mostly talk about what sets it has and what roserade does which is being an offensive/defensive hazard setter but roserade does face competition from other grass types as you said and other hazard setters like qwilfish, nidoqueen, and froslass. Also wouldn't you say that with zapdos being a now common threat that that would also drop the usage of water types a tiny bit as zapdos did to steel types? Roserade also is hurt by zapdos as well as it being able to be a reliable defogger and having access to heat wave. Roserade also falls pray to CM reuniclus, salamence, entei, mega bee, mega aero and more, roserade is threatened by so many common threats in the tier that i don't really think that it's pros outweigh its cons enough for it too have a place in A- unlike froslass who is arguably the greater hazard setter being able to reliably set up hazards and can provide Dbond and icy wind to help take down or revenge kill opposing pokes. Roserade is a great poke with Pros > Cons but i just don't think the pros outweigh its flaws enough for it to go to A-.


P.S- Yes it does have a lot of sets that it could use, they just aren't as great as offensive and defensive hazard setter imo and shouldn't move up because of those sets which is why i didn't mention them.
 
The thing with Roserade in comparision to Frosslass as a spiker stacker is that Frosslass is a suicide lead and doesn't really fit on teams other than HO (it would be just a wasted slot on balance/stall etc.) and only performs one role good while Roserade is more versatile. Like Roserade can perform the spike stack role decently too while having access to spikes or toxic spikes, the thing with rose is that it has offensive pressure which Frosslass or other spiker dont really have, like with Life Orb it hits incredebly hard and can threaten Zapdos a lot, since u acted like Zapdos hard walls Roserade. While being amazingly offensive it also has a great move in sleep powder making it able to check important things that would annoy spikestack (non-overcoat forry, empoleon etc.) not to forget it has a decent typing with Grass Poison making it able to check a plethora of pokemon and make the spike stack easier while still be threatening (Florges, Chesnaught, Swampert for example). The main problem with Rose is probably the not so good defense, and the current physical spam in UU. But then again how i mentioned it still has is uses and can perfectly fit on most teams and provide a decent support.
I'm leaning towards the rise to A-, since it's placed to low in B+ imo.
 

YABO

King Turt
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
The thing with Roserade in comparision to Frosslass as a spiker stacker is that Frosslass is a suicide lead and doesn't really fit on teams other than HO (it would be just a wasted slot on balance/stall etc.) and only performs one role good while Roserade is more versatile. Like Roserade can perform the spike stack role decently too while having access to spikes or toxic spikes, the thing with rose is that it has offensive pressure which Frosslass or other spiker dont really have, like with Life Orb it hits incredebly hard and can threaten Zapdos a lot, since u acted like Zapdos hard walls Roserade. While being amazingly offensive it also has a great move in sleep powder making it able to check important things that would annoy spikestack (non-overcoat forry, empoleon etc.) not to forget it has a decent typing with Grass Poison making it able to check a plethora of pokemon and make the spike stack easier while still be threatening (Florges, Chesnaught, Swampert for example). The main problem with Rose is probably the not so good defense, and the current physical spam in UU. But then again how i mentioned it still has is uses and can perfectly fit on most teams and provide a decent support.
I'm leaning towards the rise to A-, since it's placed to low in B+ imo.
Small nitpick, but chesnaught and rose Rade just kinda glare at eachother menacingly since bulletproof means neither can touch the other. No real thoughts on the nomination itself but not too excited about the idea.
 
The thing with Roserade in comparision to Frosslass as a spiker stacker is that Frosslass is a suicide lead and doesn't really fit on teams other than HO (it would be just a wasted slot on balance/stall etc.) and only performs one role good while Roserade is more versatile. Like Roserade can perform the spike stack role decently too while having access to spikes or toxic spikes, the thing with rose is that it has offensive pressure which Frosslass or other spiker dont really have, like with Life Orb it hits incredebly hard and can threaten Zapdos a lot, since u acted like Zapdos hard walls Roserade. While being amazingly offensive it also has a great move in sleep powder making it able to check important things that would annoy spikestack (non-overcoat forry, empoleon etc.) not to forget it has a decent typing with Grass Poison making it able to check a plethora of pokemon and make the spike stack easier while still be threatening (Florges, Chesnaught, Swampert for example). The main problem with Rose is probably the not so good defense, and the current physical spam in UU. But then again how i mentioned it still has is uses and can perfectly fit on most teams and provide a decent support.
I'm leaning towards the rise to A-, since it's placed to low in B+ imo.
On the two bolded points:

- 252 SpA Life Orb Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade: 250-296 (96.5 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO -- While Zapdos doesn't want to risk coming in on a LO Sludge Bomb((63.5 - 75.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock) or Sleep Powder, it has no problem taking on any form of Roserade once its inside.

- The only time you beat Chesnaught is if you're running some form of Coverage(namely Gleam/ESense/HP Fire), Bulletproof fully protects it from your Sludge Bombs(Bulletproof OP), and even without SpD investment it doesn't really care much about any Grass STAB you use. Mind you, Chesnaught can't touch you either, but it's definitely not something youre guaranteed to threaten. (YABO ninja'd me while typing this up, smh).

Anyways, Rose has always been at least a decent pick, as it carries a decent mix of offense and defense on the special side, as well as a nice Ability in Natural Cure. Mostly the issue with it comes down to its speed, as base 90 causes it to be threatened by a lot(ties with PZ), and the Poison/Grass that gives it a lot of offensive power also causes it to take heavy damage from Earthquake, which is still pretty common in the tier. B+ is pretty good for it as is.
 
I mentioned Chesnaught as a Pokemon Roserade can set up Spikes on and not beating Chesnaught 1v1 since it can come in for free without fearing something, of course Roserade can't beat Chesnaught always but if a Roserade comes in on your Chesnaught they will mostly switchout fearing a HP Ice or Fire (and do mention Life Orb Giga Drain still does a decent chunck) and yeah Chesnaught is just a Spike set fodder. My main point is that Zapdos doesn't really affect Roserades viability so hard since the calc provides that Zapdos has a hard time coming in on Life Orb Sludge Bombs or Sleep Powder as it could die to Poison+Rocks dmg or whatever.
 
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