Yeah, yeah, didn't get reqs, but I didn't even try, so whatever.
I feel passionately enough for this that I'll just duplicate my 1500 word essay on Excadrill (So yeah, nominating Excadrill). Thundurus is auto-suspect, so I'm not going to nominate it, obviously.
---
I know that Excadrill's been through Suspect testing countless times and have been discussed to death already, but if you listen, you might learn something.
Basically, this is another "Excadrill is broken" rant. I'll carefully outline why and attempt to dismantle the existing arguments on why it is not.
Reasons why Excadrill is broken:
It completely and utterly renders fast/hyper/heavy/rapid offense (whatever you want to call it) unplayable
Eh, I used to hate this argument, but I've kind of changed my mind on that.
So yeah, I decide to try and get on PO to try (again) and make an ultra fast offense team last night (I mean, they are fun to play, your matches end quickly) and just simply cannot finish making it. Why? Because Excadrill completely walks over it, and if I were to put in a Pokemon to try and counter it, it would completely destroy the team's momentum.
The biggest reason I have heard on why Excadrill is not Uber material is that it is hard countered by a number of Pokemon, and it has a decent amount of checks. I'll go ahead and list them:
- Gliscor
- Skarmory
- Bronzong
- Tangrowth
- Hippowdon
- Conkelderp (+0 EQ 2HKOs, so you can only switch in once)
- Azumarill (See Azumarill)
- Politoed (Needs Choice Scarf, and is a check at best)
- Ninetales (Cannot switch in)
Out of those Pokemon, which one of those Pokemon belongs on the type of team that is in the title? In other words, which one of those Pokemon could sweep a team? The first five Pokemon cannot sweep (Gliscor hits like a girl, and cannot sweep anything apart from a full stall team). Conkeldurr, Azumarill and Politoed are revenge killers at best, and aren't what you call Pokemon that gain you momentum. Conkeldurr is, from my experiences, too easily walled. Azumarill and Politoed are complete and utter hazard fodder. That leaves Ninetales, which admittedly can actually hurt things with Nasty Plot and sun boosted Fire attacks with a decent base 100 Speed... if only that it doesn't lose to Excadrill's primary weather inducer more often than not, and base 81 SpA is kind of mediocre. So basically, the idea is that IF you want to run an offensive team, you HAVE to run one of the Pokemon listed above (if not then Excadrill can just waltz in and rape you). You have to waste a teamslot just to stop yourself getting swept by the mole, a teamslot which can be filled by a much more competent Pokemon, a Pokemon that doesn't lose you the momentum as soon as you bring it out.
If you want a comparison to something we know, try to compare Excadrill with 4th gen UU Yanmega. Both Pokemon destroyed offensive play. Yanmega was as easily walled as Excadrill. You stuck a Pokemon called Chansey in front of it and Yanmega couldn't do a damn thing. Registeel could check it once of twice, and if you had Stealth Rock off the field, SpD Altaria and Moltres kept it down reasonably well. Did that stop Yanmega being the most broken Pokemon 4th gen UU had ever seen? No. Stopping Yanmega meant putting a Pokemon that could not gain you a single kgms-1 of momentum (except maybe Moltres, but he had massive problems). Now, same thing for Excadrill. Stopping the mole meant putting something that was completely irrelevant to the goal of the team. I think the perfect example is PK and Jabba's Enter the Dragon team (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3448743). For what purpose does Politoed serve other than to revenge Excadrill with? It says in the description that "it helps deal with Sandstorm teams better". Sandstorm teams = Excadrill for the most part. Instead of something that fits the slot better (Such as say, sweeper Deoxys-S to clean the mess that Haxorus and Latios shat behind, or even DD Mence to make the team even more epic), they had to use a Scarfed weather inducer when they already had a revenge killer.
I think this somes it up pretty well (From http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2131525&postcount=225):
Change to:
So please, do not give me crap such as "Excadrill is counterable" or "Excadrill is easily walled", as it is not a be all and end all to whether a Pokemon is broken or not. Garchomp was counterable. Blaziken was counterable. Arceus is counterable. Does not stop them being broken.
Another point is that Excadrill can revenge virtually anything on an offensive team. DD Mence, DD Gyarados, NP Thundurus, sweeper Deoxys-S, whatever you want, Excadrill will kill it for you. While if it was just your average Choice Scarf revenge killer, I wouldn't be complaining. Something like Choice Scarf Latios, Choice Scarf Jirachi are balanced by 1) They are easily setup on by something else after they've revenged the mon, and 2) They are likely to be trapped by Wobbuffet, or Tyranitar, or whatever. Excadrill does not fall into either of those categories. It can easily come in, kill your sweeper, switch out, and kill something else just as easily, or even sweep before you know it. Having a double resistance to Stealth Rock and usable bulk helps it too. If your opponent does not have something like RP Landlos or Terrakion, and you can be sure that the sand stays up (which is easy, since Tyranitar wins lots of weather wars all by himself), unless you're stupid and let someone get a bunch of Dragon Dances or something, you can just bring in Excadrill and kill that Pokemon without much prediction at all.
In fact, you can run a very good stall team with Excadrill as an offensive spinner, and watch it decimate offense all by itself. Anything that Excadrill cannot take on (Gliscor, slower, bulkier sweepers) are easily walled by something else on the stall team. If you can find one Pokemon on a stall team that can easily destroy an entire playstyle by itself, you have a problem.
But wait, it's not limited to just offense!
Excadrill doesn't just annihilate full-blown offense. It causes problems for Stall, to a certain extent too. This is due to his ability to pull off Rapid Spin extremely easily. There is not a single spin-blocker in playable OU that can take on Excadrill and stop it from spinning (hell, you'd be hard pressed to find a spin-blocker in Ubers that can do it, too). So, you have your normal stall team, spending a number of turns trying to set up entry hazards... only to have Excadrill come in and spin it all away for nothing. While Excadrill does find it harder to actually sweep a stall team, it causes quite some problems nonetheless.
Excadrill messes up Speed tiers
This was originally pointed out by Snunch, so I'm not going to talk too much about it. You can find his post somewhere earlier in the last megathread, IIRC. The main points were:
- Massive gap between Excadrill and the next fastest Pokemon
- No-one runs Scarfers anymore
and uh...
- Speed tiers are all clustered around 100-111 because there's no point running faster (I think)
So, while we don't use the Uber characteristics any more, they are still a good reference to try and prove a Pokemon's power. I would like to remind you all on what it is:
It can sweep offensive teams with little effort already, just like I have mentioned. It also gives significant inconveniences to stall and balance, by spinning away hazards easily, and since weather is quite easily kept by Tyranitar, it puts a lot of pressure on those teams anyway. Destroy offense + Cause trouble for both balance and stall ~ Significant portion of teams in the metagame in my eyes.
tl:dr
Now get that mole out o_0
I feel passionately enough for this that I'll just duplicate my 1500 word essay on Excadrill (So yeah, nominating Excadrill). Thundurus is auto-suspect, so I'm not going to nominate it, obviously.
---
I know that Excadrill's been through Suspect testing countless times and have been discussed to death already, but if you listen, you might learn something.
Basically, this is another "Excadrill is broken" rant. I'll carefully outline why and attempt to dismantle the existing arguments on why it is not.
Reasons why Excadrill is broken:
It completely and utterly renders fast/hyper/heavy/rapid offense (whatever you want to call it) unplayable
Eh, I used to hate this argument, but I've kind of changed my mind on that.
So yeah, I decide to try and get on PO to try (again) and make an ultra fast offense team last night (I mean, they are fun to play, your matches end quickly) and just simply cannot finish making it. Why? Because Excadrill completely walks over it, and if I were to put in a Pokemon to try and counter it, it would completely destroy the team's momentum.
The biggest reason I have heard on why Excadrill is not Uber material is that it is hard countered by a number of Pokemon, and it has a decent amount of checks. I'll go ahead and list them:
- Gliscor
- Skarmory
- Bronzong
- Tangrowth
- Hippowdon
- Conkelderp (+0 EQ 2HKOs, so you can only switch in once)
- Azumarill (See Azumarill)
- Politoed (Needs Choice Scarf, and is a check at best)
- Ninetales (Cannot switch in)
Out of those Pokemon, which one of those Pokemon belongs on the type of team that is in the title? In other words, which one of those Pokemon could sweep a team? The first five Pokemon cannot sweep (Gliscor hits like a girl, and cannot sweep anything apart from a full stall team). Conkeldurr, Azumarill and Politoed are revenge killers at best, and aren't what you call Pokemon that gain you momentum. Conkeldurr is, from my experiences, too easily walled. Azumarill and Politoed are complete and utter hazard fodder. That leaves Ninetales, which admittedly can actually hurt things with Nasty Plot and sun boosted Fire attacks with a decent base 100 Speed... if only that it doesn't lose to Excadrill's primary weather inducer more often than not, and base 81 SpA is kind of mediocre. So basically, the idea is that IF you want to run an offensive team, you HAVE to run one of the Pokemon listed above (if not then Excadrill can just waltz in and rape you). You have to waste a teamslot just to stop yourself getting swept by the mole, a teamslot which can be filled by a much more competent Pokemon, a Pokemon that doesn't lose you the momentum as soon as you bring it out.
If you want a comparison to something we know, try to compare Excadrill with 4th gen UU Yanmega. Both Pokemon destroyed offensive play. Yanmega was as easily walled as Excadrill. You stuck a Pokemon called Chansey in front of it and Yanmega couldn't do a damn thing. Registeel could check it once of twice, and if you had Stealth Rock off the field, SpD Altaria and Moltres kept it down reasonably well. Did that stop Yanmega being the most broken Pokemon 4th gen UU had ever seen? No. Stopping Yanmega meant putting a Pokemon that could not gain you a single kgms-1 of momentum (except maybe Moltres, but he had massive problems). Now, same thing for Excadrill. Stopping the mole meant putting something that was completely irrelevant to the goal of the team. I think the perfect example is PK and Jabba's Enter the Dragon team (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3448743). For what purpose does Politoed serve other than to revenge Excadrill with? It says in the description that "it helps deal with Sandstorm teams better". Sandstorm teams = Excadrill for the most part. Instead of something that fits the slot better (Such as say, sweeper Deoxys-S to clean the mess that Haxorus and Latios shat behind, or even DD Mence to make the team even more epic), they had to use a Scarfed weather inducer when they already had a revenge killer.
I think this somes it up pretty well (From http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2131525&postcount=225):
Change to:
So please, do not give me crap such as "Excadrill is counterable" or "Excadrill is easily walled", as it is not a be all and end all to whether a Pokemon is broken or not. Garchomp was counterable. Blaziken was counterable. Arceus is counterable. Does not stop them being broken.
Another point is that Excadrill can revenge virtually anything on an offensive team. DD Mence, DD Gyarados, NP Thundurus, sweeper Deoxys-S, whatever you want, Excadrill will kill it for you. While if it was just your average Choice Scarf revenge killer, I wouldn't be complaining. Something like Choice Scarf Latios, Choice Scarf Jirachi are balanced by 1) They are easily setup on by something else after they've revenged the mon, and 2) They are likely to be trapped by Wobbuffet, or Tyranitar, or whatever. Excadrill does not fall into either of those categories. It can easily come in, kill your sweeper, switch out, and kill something else just as easily, or even sweep before you know it. Having a double resistance to Stealth Rock and usable bulk helps it too. If your opponent does not have something like RP Landlos or Terrakion, and you can be sure that the sand stays up (which is easy, since Tyranitar wins lots of weather wars all by himself), unless you're stupid and let someone get a bunch of Dragon Dances or something, you can just bring in Excadrill and kill that Pokemon without much prediction at all.
In fact, you can run a very good stall team with Excadrill as an offensive spinner, and watch it decimate offense all by itself. Anything that Excadrill cannot take on (Gliscor, slower, bulkier sweepers) are easily walled by something else on the stall team. If you can find one Pokemon on a stall team that can easily destroy an entire playstyle by itself, you have a problem.
But wait, it's not limited to just offense!
Excadrill doesn't just annihilate full-blown offense. It causes problems for Stall, to a certain extent too. This is due to his ability to pull off Rapid Spin extremely easily. There is not a single spin-blocker in playable OU that can take on Excadrill and stop it from spinning (hell, you'd be hard pressed to find a spin-blocker in Ubers that can do it, too). So, you have your normal stall team, spending a number of turns trying to set up entry hazards... only to have Excadrill come in and spin it all away for nothing. While Excadrill does find it harder to actually sweep a stall team, it causes quite some problems nonetheless.
Excadrill messes up Speed tiers
This was originally pointed out by Snunch, so I'm not going to talk too much about it. You can find his post somewhere earlier in the last megathread, IIRC. The main points were:
- Massive gap between Excadrill and the next fastest Pokemon
- No-one runs Scarfers anymore
and uh...
- Speed tiers are all clustered around 100-111 because there's no point running faster (I think)
So, while we don't use the Uber characteristics any more, they are still a good reference to try and prove a Pokemon's power. I would like to remind you all on what it is:
It can sweep offensive teams with little effort already, just like I have mentioned. It also gives significant inconveniences to stall and balance, by spinning away hazards easily, and since weather is quite easily kept by Tyranitar, it puts a lot of pressure on those teams anyway. Destroy offense + Cause trouble for both balance and stall ~ Significant portion of teams in the metagame in my eyes.
tl:dr
Now get that mole out o_0
